Help me choose an online backup service

[40hz]

@highend01 - Hi! Since you took the time to comment to my comment on an item by item basis, I thought it would be polite that I make a similar effort to do the same.

@40hz

If it take my time to test a new software you can be rest assured that I do it thoroughly

-highend01 (February 16, 2012, 06:04 PM)

Um...I have no way of knowing what you do when you test new software, but I'm glad for you that you're very thorough about it. Proud of you even! But I think you misunderstood my comment. I was simply making a suggestion and entering into some dialog. If you joined in with the intent of giving answers rather than entering into a discussion about solutions, I apologize for not realizing that earlier.

Anything on my C: drive isn't data that should be backup-ed. Why not? I already decided over 20 years
ago that I separate all of my data from the partition, where the os is installed. Apart from that 95%
of my used software is portable and stores it's settings and data on a different drive (and the only
Software that needs to be installed is forced to write everything it wants to save to a different drive as well).

I'm also glad of that. This very same topic has been discussed at length in previous DC forum threads. And all of the things you're currently doing are what many of us are also doing, And have been doing for quite a while. But I'd suspect anybody who had some experience with PCs and computers (in my case going back to punched cards) would independently come to realize that too given sufficient interest and time. How does that saying go? Nothing "new" under the sun. Just some things that are "new" to some people.

if you first just let it 'do its thing' to see exactly how long it took - and then logged in to check and see exactly what got backed up.

You don't need to. You can see this kind of information before it actually begins the real backup. Look at the last rightmost tabs.

Here I think you and I will have to agree to disagree. While it's nice for software to provide such an estimate, I don't ever really trust it until I've run a few real world iterations. Many of these time estimates are little more than marketing ploys. In the case of Backblaze, I'm happy to say they weren't just hype and wishful thinking. They are quite accurate estimates in fact. Unless something happens on your network that causes communication issues. As a personal user you probably don't have to deal with that. But my perspective is more from a server farm and heterogeneous corporate network management perspective, where things can and do go wrong when we least expect despite all due diligence on our part. As a result I test everything under differing scenarios whenever possible before I'll say: "Ok, I'll buy that."

So once the initial mirror takes place, subsequent backups only require a fraction of the original time unless major changes have taken place on your local drive.

Delta-backup. Atm it's hard to find reasonable sync/backup providers that DON'T support this technology.

Yes. I'm sure many, if not most of us, are also aware of that.  But I mentioned it because I suspect most people here aren't familiar with Backblaze so I put it in purely for informational purposes. If I toned down the techspeak, it was because many DC members without a lot of technical background also read these threads. So I usually make it a point to write in plain English as much as possible when I'm here. I've been told my conversation at work and among fellow professionals is virtually unintelligible to a layman. Alphabet soup one client (not in IT) called it.

It also keeps deleted and changed files for up to 30 days - so it also acts as a sort of versioning backup system

That's the case, right. The currently used HiDrive account allows me to configure for how long old / deleted versions are kept and these settings can be changed for different folders and users (I use a 5 user account with 500gb of storage).

Can't comment. I'm not personally familiar with HiDrive since I've never used it. But if it does what you want the way you want it done that's great. In Mouser's case, what I understood he was looking for was an online storage provider that could handle a very large data collection at a reasonable price. And that bells & whistles weren't needed or wanted since this was just a final fallback in the event of an emergency. So to me the criteria was:

• pure backup - no sharing or other features
• reliable provider
• reasonable cost
• good performance
• basically set & forget
• flexible recovery options in the event a restore was needed.

Backblaze fits that bill quite nicely. And I have direct experience with it so I'm comfortable recommending it.

That's why I suggested Backblaze.

Regarding the huge amount of data that can be backuped with a slow uplink: I'm storing atm 150 GB on my user account at HiDrive. With non throttled upload speed this takes about 18 days (24h/day) if you don't want to pay the extra fee if you send in a hdd.

Can't say much to that other than "your mileage may vary." Whatever happens with you, HiDrive, and your connection through your ISP would be for you to talk about. I was only talking about Carbonite and Backblaze.

PS.: I like intelligent software. As long as it let's me reconfigure it's behavior when it does things that I don't want it to do.

Me too. Glad we agree on that point!

We're also wandering a bit off topic with this so I'm going to bow out here.

Best!

[mouser]

On my old computer (which was slow) I set it to use 0% cpu and bandwidth while I was present, which meant it only did it's job when I left the computer for more than 10 minutes.

-Jibz (February 17, 2012, 05:41 AM)

Yeah but CrashPlanService.exe is using 50-80mb of memory even when it's just sitting in the background doing NOTHING.  I'm not even talking about the desktop application which uses a lot more.  I'm talking about the background process that should be doing nothing (watching for friends who might try to connect?).  Even for me, who usually doesn't worry about such things, that's pretty excessive memory use for a tool that's not doing *anything*.

It may be due to highend's observation that this is a java app..

[wraith808]

Just FYI - JungleDisk uses 5MB under the same conditions...

[Jibz]

Well, all I can say is that I have never felt any actual impact from it even on my machine with 1 GB of mem. As long as that is the case I am not that bothered by what numbers task manager shows .

[Curt]

Livedrive wins PC Pro labs test, gains A-List award – The Official Livedrive Blog

[tranglos]

I get about 38Kbs upstream ...

-Carol Haynes (February 16, 2012, 02:37 PM)

OMG! I'd go absolutely nuts with that. I guess the UK doesn't plan on getting much on board with SaS and "cloud" do they? Or are those speeds just because of where you're located in the UK?

-40hz (February 16, 2012, 02:51 PM)

Here in Poland I get 0.5 Mbit upstream, and it's as high as the ISP will go. It's a win-win for the ISP. With an asymmetric link, they advertize the higher downlink bandwidth (6 Mbit in my case), conveniently omitting the flip side. And they discourage people from running servers.

That makes all of us very bad bittorrent citizens.

[jeromg]

Hi mouser et al.,

I'm jumping in a bit late on this thread... I've been using SuperFlexibleSynchronizer to backup all my files on local USB drives and also online using AmazonS3 for years, I'm a bit paranoid and I used SuperFlexible encryption (zip-based AES 256 bits) for local and online backups.
I'm also using Dropbox and SugarSync as simple, non-secure file sharing systems between my devices (pc, mac, phones, ipad). I'm also using SpiderOak file sync feature to sync a 2Gb-TrueCrypt container of my personal files between my work pc and my main home pc.

Cheers  /jerome

[Ambiks]

Hi mouser,

You can try Vembu's online backup service called StoreGrid Cloud. Using StoreGrid cloud you can backup your files/folders and configure disk image backup as well. To know more details about StoreGrid Cloud please refer following URL: https://storegridcloud.vembu.com/

Regards,
Ambika.

[mouser]

I am currently trying CrashPlan on my main real pc.  Memory use has been in the 200-300mb range, which is high, but cpu usage is reasonable and i feel like i can spare the memory, so i'm not stressing over it.  We shall see..

[mouser]

However I do have to say that, the more i think about it, using 300mb of memory while running in the background, 24hours a day 7 days a week is really obnoxious, and im starting to think that it's unacceptable to me.  Note you can't even exit this 300mb using background service. Really not cool.

[Jibz]

Is it working on the initial backup of all your data? because mine is around 80 mb

Anyway, I am amazed at how many services have been suggested in this thread, it seems like there are a lot of possibilities, and it all comes down to two things -- specific features you might need, and what service gives you a feeling of security.

[mouser]

Jibz, I suspect the memory has to do with monitoring the file system -- so the use may depend on the size of the file system, or the amount of activity.

The 24hr monitoring of the filesystem in realtime to detect file changes is either a great feature if you want it, or a resource hog if like me you don't really need it (I note you can turn it off in options in CrashPlan but it doesn't change the memory use of CrashPlan in my experience).

Stopping and Restarting the service does seem to dramatically cut down on memory use -- perhaps because of java's garbage collection, the app may be holding on to large amounts of memory when it doesn't need to be..


If anyone is interested in shortcuts which will stop and start the background CrashPlanService, for times when you dont want this behemoth running, I uploaded them:

• here.

From the readme:

Code: Text [Select]

1. WHAT THESE DO:
2.  
3. These shortcuts simply stop and start the background invisible CrashPlanService.exe service.
4.  
5. INSTALL:
6.  
7. All of these files point to C:\Program Files\ so edit those if your CrashPlan is somewhere else.
8. The .lnk file is copied directly from my start menu to here from when CrashPlan was installed; if it fails to start your tray CrashPlan.exe then you can use the one from *your* start menu.
9.  
10.  
11. IMPORTANT NOTES:
12.  
13. The CrashPlan service uses an OBSCENE amount of memory (often 300mb or more) even when doing nothing.
14. Furthermore, there is no way to tell it to unload its background service -- the tray utility will let you exit *it* but the memory monster background service will continue.
15.  
16. I haven't seen any ramifications from stopping and starting the CrashPlan service,
17. *BUT* one might logically ask if it's that easy why isn't there an option to exit it from the tray.
18.  
19. The answer may be that CrashPlan's feature of monitoring the filesystem for changes may depend on it always being running.
20.  
21. If so, I do not know what the effect will be of stopping and restarting the service.  One natural assumption may be that any files changed file the service was not running, may not be detecting and updated, so use at your own risk!

I think I should try to find a difference service, but I'm still impressed by CrashPlan.  If not for the obscene memory use I would definitely recommend it.

[iphigenie]

Obviously around online backup/sync there are 2 views

view #1 the service as a separate "drive" (dropbox, amazon storage services etc.). You tell the tool what to backup and sync by moving or copying your files and folders to it. You copy to/from it. You arrange your workflow around it. You manage it manually. Many people seem to find this more convenient. And if all you deal in are files you manipulate directly anyway and where you control the location easily, it is. If you want to backup settings and configurations that have to be in a specific place, and change often, you need an additional tool to copy these to the "drive" regularly.

view #2 the service as a background backup service that "just happens". You tell the tool what to backup from where in a configuration screen (or right click menu), rather than by moving the files to a specific place. Then it just does it behind the scenes. You don't reorganise your files, but you have to go through the tree and change settings/tick boxes.

I have tried quite a few - won't list them all

* spideroak - still use this. Pay for it. Love it. Quite slow admin (due to the encryption) but has native linux and has had for 3+ years. Keeps a lot of local information on files but efficient upload (diff/rsync style, i assume). I use it on windows and slackware. Safe solid backup, encrypted, keeps machines separated (each computer has their own backup space, separate), keeps versions. Allows for picking by file or folder and by file type (in a tree/explorer style setting). Has only limited "easy start" for people who dont know where their files and settings are saved, compared to some others. Can do safe sync (via 2 backed up copies), but not meant for seamless sync. Not for collaborative share but allows for file sharing/publishing of any custom combination of files and folders (that has to be set up from the local client software first) complete with rss feed notification - i use this to make files available to tech support situations etc. Web interface only for retrieval of files (and versions). Computers only.
I like it enough that i even considered getting a while label reseller option... settled for an affiliate link for now. https://spideroak.co...wnload/promo/iphi2go (in case someone wants to try it and feels nice) Free plan: 2Gb
Help me choose an online backup service  Help me choose an online backup service  Help me choose an online backup service

* dropbox. Because everyone uses it so I use it for collaboration. Very simple to use but not all that good for backup - aimed at collaborative sharing. I absolutely *hate* the forced use of a specific local folder though. It is not at all how I want to work. Works best for occasional use or for collaborative sharing. I use it for work with certain clients, and for uploading to ourdoings.com (that's an awesome mechanism for uploading photos, i must say). Supports mobile devices and linux. Webinterface allows for administering sharing as well as file access.
Very easy to pick up due to the "one folder" approach even for fairly unfamiliar computer users. And exists in multiple languages, so I introduce my foreign relatives to it.

* syncplicity. Has the best windows integration, imo. Can have a dropbox style main folder but also works on individual folders, and files. Easy to add or exclude specific files straight from explorer right mouse button menu (add, exclude, share). Does keep versions and deleted files (within plan limits). Aimed more at synchronising across machines so adding a folder on one machine always triggers a prompt on the other machine.  Does not keep machines separated, creates one big files pot. Deals with conflicts by creating (named) duplicates, which can be good (no overwrites) but also extremely annoying. Works beautifully for sync'ing work in progress and settings (perfect for saved games!).
Big weakness is that once you have shared a lot of folders all over the place the admin interface makes it hard to figure out what's what (see screenshot) unless you renamed labels carefully when adding. Web admin interface does more than just download, allows for individual access and sharing. Cloud editing via Gdocs, zoho (and a few more). Very intuitive (to me) way to control whether to sync or backup only, and what destination etc.
I had a plan for 2 years but then they changed their plans and wanted me to pay the same for half the space and only 5 machines' access, then they tried to bill me in duplicate, so I lapsed back to free. Just use the free plan for settings sync. Shame. Focusing on the corporate market now (not even SMB, corporate)
If you sign up to the free plan use my link and give us both more space, will ya? https://my.syncplici...e&token=TZHBEQJ3
Free plan: 2Gb
Help me choose an online backup service    Help me choose an online backup service

* cx - a more stylish version of dropbox. Lots of great reviews, does have better group and commenting features, but I couldn't see the point for me. Possibly has features on macs that I cant assess. Prettier but not much better, that I could see. Didnt try it much, though. NOT granular to the file level.
More generous free allowance, though. Free plan: 10Gb! (might make it a valuable free service for group collaboration at 10Gb)

* sugar sync - an interesting mix. I'm currently rying it to see if it will substitute for syncplicity is very similar in features, heard much good from colleagues about it. Creates an automatic shared folder (magic) that is automatically sync'd between all machines. Then allows the backup (and optional -but by default on- sync) of individual folders, but unlike syncplicity only from its own admin interface. (Edit: I lied, it does allow config from windows explorer/interface but only while it is running). NOT granular to the file level.
Web interface quite powerful, allows for access for retrieval and versions, like they all do, but also email, links for sharing, and a download/edit/upload way to change files when without the software (but no cloud edit like syncplicity offers). Good support for photos andmobile devices. Also, copy and move and rename, and some view/play for media files. Admin client is a bit quirky as similar tasks are done on vastly different screens, compared to syncplicity I found it harder to do management tasks but easier to get a good overview of things synchronised. Good support for devices, not just iphone and android for once. I could grow to like this a lot, and they are still coming up with features that both groups and small businesses can use. We'll see.
Free plan: 5Gb
Pricing is better than dropbox or syncplicity, and they have offers at the moment (you get a deal via email while in trial, and that deal worked for me, i paid)
https://www.sugarsyn...ral?rf=b5jratm0f6yt0 (as all these things, you get extra space too when you use a code, iirc).
Help me choose an online backup service  Help me choose an online backup service  Help me choose an online backup service

* memotoo and funambol - based on an open source setup you could also install on your own server. AImed more at addresses/calendars but has a file module as well. Wouldnt do as a full backup option, but for a set of files can be nice. Works with every possible device/os out there, pretty much, including old Nokia, Maemo/Meego and more.
Memotoo is a slightly extended hosted version of funambol. cheap yearly fee for contact/calendar/file sync (14 euros?)
funambol.com and memotoo.com

[cranioscopical]

@ iphigenie

Wow, that's an impressive summary!

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do that, it's material like this that helps to make DC as valuable as it is.

I think this should be in a thread of its own or in the review section somewhere, and certainly linked to in the next newsletter.
 

[iphigenie]

@ iphigenie

Wow, that's an impressive summary!

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do that, it's material like this that helps to make DC as valuable as it is.

I think this should be in a thread of its own or in the review section somewhere, and certainly linked to in the next newsletter.
 

-cranioscopical (February 25, 2012, 07:29 AM)

Thanks, that's very sweet of you.
This is very unstructured and not impartial or systematic, purely based on my needs and experience

Will have to try Livedrive which is mentioned in this discussion though, looks well packaged

[wraith808]

* sugar sync - an interesting mix.

-iphigenie (February 25, 2012, 06:51 AM)

If you're trying it out, there's something to be aware of that I covered in my trial of sugarsync.  I'm not sure if they fixed it (they never responded to my queries), but, from the review:

During the uninstall, it stated that "no files would be removed".  [Expletive Deleted]!  They removed *everything* from my machine.

Full post of that experience is here.

[rgdot]

Thank you iphigenie, great stuff

I know what you mean by specific but FWIW Dropbox's folder location can be changed these days.  I think I am more or less a case #1. The files that I am comfortable putting online are moved to a location (dropbox for example) "manually", I don't use online options as a general purpose backup (everything on my drive)

[iphigenie]

If you're trying it out, there's something to be aware of that I covered in my trial of sugarsync.  I'm not sure if they fixed it (they never responded to my queries), but, from the review:

During the uninstall, it stated that "no files would be removed".  [Expletive Deleted]!  They removed *everything* from my machine.

Full post of that experience is here.

-wraith808 (February 25, 2012, 10:33 AM)

yikes! I'll be very careful should I uninstall it. Hopefully though, 2 years on, they dont have that bug anymore...

One thing that is not in sugarsync that was so easy in syncplicity (and is also easy in spideroak) is excluding single files - since the idea on this one is to backup -and when it makes sense sync - settings and files that programs leave all over the place (in Appdata, user folder, programdata or the application's folder) and that often the folder contain many standard (easy to reinstall) files as well as the few files that need to be backed up. It's likely I'll end up using something else as a result, as I end up backing up more files than I need with sugar sync.

Maybe syncplicity will change their plans back to something more reasonable, maybe I'll just increase my plan in spideroak and use that for sync, even with the duplicate upload space it needs. Maybe I'll try a few more...

[iphigenie]

Thank you iphigenie, great stuff

I know what you mean by specific but FWIW Dropbox's folder location can be changed these days.  I think I am more or less a case #1. The files that I am comfortable putting online are moved to a location (dropbox for example) "manually", I don't use online options as a general purpose backup (everything on my drive)

-rgdot (February 25, 2012, 10:45 AM)

Yes, you can put it where you want, which is good. But it's still a "one folder" approach. Works great for files whose location you control, but not for files created by applications where you cannot control the location, or where you just want one file from a folder backed up. And I have a lot of that, the paranoia of backing my settings up (not finding that a crash has lost me configs that I can never rebuild. been there, done that. Still mourn a custom evolved objectbar skin from 8 years ago... yeah, well  )

I'd tried putting the files in dropbox and using links, but it's not practical and too easily can go wrong

So I use dropbox for specific work projects and for ourdoings.com

[jeromg]

Folks,

There's still something on my mind when I think about backing-up online: security and longevity...

What I mean by longevity is what would happen to my data if, for some unforeseen reason, the company stop its activity.

Any thoughts on this?

CrashPlan really seems a good alternative to my current system (Superflexible + AmazonS3).

Cheers  /jerome

[mouser]

What I mean by longevity is what would happen to my data if, for some unforeseen reason, the company stop its activity.

Whether the company stops, or more likely, raises its prices outside of your comfort zone -- you are likely to have plenty of advanced warning and time to move your date.

But can I point out that even that scenario only affects you if YOUR ONLY COPY of some of the files are on the online service.  And I wouldn't recommend that no matter how much you trust them.  So if you have an additional backup of any data that you are storing online, it doesn't really matter if they suddenly dissapear.  The value of the site is to save you if your LOCAL copy dies suddenly.  So just keep copies of everything locally and you don't have to worry.

As for security -- all of these services backup the data BEFORE IT LEAVES YOUR PC, with strong encryption key that only you should know.  Some of the services have an option that lessons this security -- but as long as you configure them properly, you are going to be secure even if your uploaded data becomes public to the entire world.

[iphigenie]

They are never a replacement for a local backup option! But there are situations where the local backup will fail you. Fire, flood, and burglary are examples (happened to my brother in law, laptops and usb backup drive stolen = all their photos gone, except for those they had emailed to relatives over the years)

I have files that are on 2 of my computers, then on a usb drive, and on a NAS, and on a portable drive that travels with me. And online.

My problem, hopefully, won't be losing files. No, my problem is duplicates and actually managing to delete things I dont need without them reappearing somewhere on the sync/backup chain... 

[barney]

Just found this thread, and read a lot of discussion, so thought I'd mention a few things native to mine own experiences/usages.

I just dropped CrashPlan - it didn't work, when push came to shove.  Am also abandoning Acronis True Image Pro - local, not the online version - for the same reason.  Went through - still going through, in fact - much the same problem mouser had.  Neither Acronis nor CrashPlan would allow me to restore an image to a kinda, sorta remote drive.  If the drive was not mounted as primary, image could not be restored.  That makes them both useless, in my [not the slightest bit humble  ] opinion.

There are two (2) kinds of backup.  One (1) is data, the other is system.  Data backup is pretty simple, just needs doing - or automating, and there are a plethora of ways to do that.  System backup is a different matter.  If it cannot restore to a [currently] non-OS-primary drive, it's useless, no matter how often you backup.  And since system image will change over time, that restoration is the only viable alternative to an OS re-installation.

I've been fighting this problem/opportunity on PCs since 1985, give or take a year or two (2), and have yet to find anything truly functional.  There is nothing extant on the market that will perform adequately for PCs.  Oh, you might see one (1) or two (2) successes, but in the long term, this is a failure/failed venue.

Now, cloud storage for data might seem a good thing, and I suppose it is useful, but what is its worth if you can't get online?  What if the files you need to access the cloud are on the cloud?  

For non-image backups, I keep one (1) 2T external in the truck, one (1) at a neighbor's house, one (1) at a friend's place, as well as a couple here, one (1) in the garage, one (1) in the computer room.  (Can ya tell I'm kinda belt & suspenders  ?).  Obviously, these are not all updated at the same time - a near logistical impossibility - but the local ones are updated weekly, and the off-site ones are updated monthly.  It was an expensive start - five (5) 2T drives were not cheap, e$pecially when I started   - but, barring disk image [software] failures, as previously noted,  this system has saved my butt more than once.  (And a coupla times when I didn't have Internet access  .)

I truly believe that, regardless the claims of the various software applications that target this arena, each of us has to create our own backup scenario, insuring that the data that is important to each of us is duplicable and recoverable.  Then it is our responsibility to insure that adequate methodology and media is available for the purpose, and that we use it.

[Edit:  typos & plurality]

[Carol Haynes]

Am also abandoning Acronis True Image Pro

-barney (February 26, 2012, 11:23 PM)

I gave up on Acronis some time ago now - after having embarrassingly recommended it to various clients (I am still picking up the pieces of that debacle). TrueImage 9 WS was rock solid B&R10 was a bunch of crap from day one - too many components and too may bugs - none of which ever seemed to get fixed even when reported. The biggest annoyance was that you had to create profiles to do anything and 99% of the time you would use the profile for a couple of months only to find it then stops working so all you incremental and differential backups ceased without any proper notification. The error handing system in Acronis is abysmal - even worse than MS bugchecks and BSODS if that is possible (and probably worse documented - if that is possible too).

Now I just use a bunch of external hard disks and Windows 7built in backup to make periodic images and use Windows Backup to produce regular file level backups on a separate internal drive.

I have divided my data up so that all the stuff that needs regular attention is on one drive and the other drives can easily be regenerated (eg. Steam apps that can redownload if required).


{re. imaging comments}

Probably the best success for imaging is using a tool that does it offline rather than while Windows is running -at least then you aren't relying on any software to maintain consistency.

[barney]

Probably the best success for imaging is using a tool that does it offline rather than while Windows is running -at least then you aren't relying on any software to maintain consistency.

-Carol Haynes (February 27, 2012, 11:16 AM)

Agreed.  I'm in the throes [up] of reinvestigating CloneZilla.  Tried it a while back and was underwhelmed.  However, a few friends have assured me that it has improved significantly.  Won't help the current situation, but the LiveCD approach makes a lot of sense, and CloneZilla does appear to have matured quite a bit.