Author Topic: "good" LCD monitors - what are their type (Read 16015 times)

nudone · « **on:** August 21, 2011, 06:11 AM »

Sorry, I'm pretty sure someone has stated what "type" good LCD monitors are elsewhere on the forum, I just can't remember who and where.

What I mean by "good" is the type of screen that doesn't appear to change in contrast or brightness as you change you viewing angle.

I've got two "good" monitors that appear consistent regardless of viewing angle and two that show immediate differences just by moving my head a few centimetres (admittedly, the two that are "bad" are in portrait mode, so the problem becomes exaggerated).

I'm intending to replace the "bad" monitors with "good" monitors, so knowing exactly what type to look for will be helpful - then I can go for the cheapest replacements possible.

Thanks.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2011, 06:57 AM »

I have 3 Samsung B2430H monitors and like them very much.

See http://www.amazon.co...p/product/B0037LIOO8

I may not be as picky as you though.

Relatively cheap, bright picture, crystal clear full HD. Colours do change marginally as you move - but not for just a few cm, you have to move a fair bit to see the effect (I can move my head 30cm to each side without noticing much difference at all).

Having said that my eyes aren't as good as they once were and I can't be sure it is not me but the monitor!

nudone · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2011, 07:15 AM »

I think that one is similar to the ones I'm labelling "bad". That might be unfair but one of the monitors I don't like is a Samsung 2443BW 24" which I'd put in the same price and quality bracket as the one you've mentioned.

If you are looking at the monitor in the "normal" portrait mode then left and right differences in viewing angle won't be a problem, which is what you've described.

But if your Samsung B2430H is similar in screen "type" to my 2443BW then you should notice a difference in colour shades when you move your head vertically. The poor way I can describe it is to say that if you view the screen "from above" it will look brighter/darker than looking at it "from below".

I'm after a screen that appears consistent in color tone and brightness across a wide range of viewing angles.

The only screens I've seen do this don't fall into the budget category - but without knowing what it is that makes the difference in the construction of the screen, I don't know whether there will be some monitors towards the top end of the budget market that will be fine.

p.s. I'm after matt finish screens.

nudone · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2011, 07:22 AM »

Okay, after a quick bit of investigation, it appears that I'm after S-IPS based monitors.

But, as I still really don't know what I'm talking about, I don't know if this is the only type of screen that will live up to my expectations. There may be alternatives, cheaper and providing the same quality.

Any ideas?

Edvard · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2011, 08:24 AM »

I'm thinking you're wanting some advice from those MOST concerned with color shifts, and that would be those working professionally in the field of digital photography/photoediting.

I looked up "LCD monitor photo editing", and you're right, what you want is *-IPS (see TFT_LCD#In-plane_switching_.28IPS.29^w) which is as good as it gets.
S-PVA is the next best, and TN is the bottom of the barrel.
I've heard that LED screens don't have the viewing angle color shift, but they have a much narrower gamut.

Be aware that the more affordable *-IPS monitors cannot support high refresh rates, so they're not recommended for games and the like.

HTH...

nudone · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2011, 09:08 AM »

Thanks, Edvard. That all gives me a good idea of what to look for.

It seems that I may be asking for something unavailable anyway as I don't want anything wider than 1680 pixels but does have S-IPS (because I'll be putting it in portrait mode and don't want it much larger than the height of the 1600 pixels my main 30" screen has). I haven't found anything yet that fits the bill; if there isn't anything then I'll be keeping what I've got.

app103 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2011, 09:35 AM »

and two that show immediate differences just by moving my head a few centimetres (admittedly, the two that are "bad" are in portrait mode, so the problem becomes exaggerated).
-nudone (August 21, 2011, 06:11 AM)

This is what I hated when going from CRT to LCD. I still can not get used to it. The only way to describe it is as a weird gradient effect caused by the display. The only thing I have been able to do to "remedy" the situation is bounce in my chair when editing images. (This may have contributed to the death of my last chair)

I am almost tempted to go dual monitor with a CRT and LCD, using the CRT strictly for image editing. But that really isn't a good long term solution....and neither is bouncing in my chair.

Ath · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2011, 09:52 AM »

You could have a look at the Dell UltraSharp 2007FP model, 1600x1200, IPS, pivot-able and a dot-pitch close to a 30" monitor (0.255 mm vs. 0.25 mm)

nudone · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2011, 11:18 AM »

Ath, that looks like a good monitor though, by "pivot" I don't think they mean it will do portrait mode - I've found that out from past experience.

And, app, the problems you are describing are because you haven't got an IPS type LCD monitor. They simply are superior - and that also means superior to a CRT. I used to argue for CRTs until I got my first decent LCD (an EIZO). My eyes used to hurt even when using a good CRT I had; now I can happily work in front of my LCDs all day, every day.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:43 PM »

This looks like your sort of thing:

http://www.amazon.co...046ECCW0/ref=sr_1_12

Edvard · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2011, 02:07 PM »

+1 for the Dell Ultrasharps, I've heard those are made by the same folks that make the Apple Cinemas (LG?)

I found a few short video clips comparing TN, S-PVA and S-IPS screens.

S-PVA vs TN

Looked fairly close until the camera went too far up or down.

S-PVA vs S-IPS

Pretty close, closer than I expected, but you can see the PVA screen dimming at extreme side angles.

S-IPS vs TN

No competition, really.

nudone · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2011, 02:25 PM »

This looks like your sort of thing:

http://www.amazon.co...046ECCW0/ref=sr_1_12

Heheh. That's what I've already got, well, the HP zr30w that is getting high praise in all the reviews recently (that's why I got it). And it does surpas anything I've seen, including my old faithful EIZO screen.

Which does make my secondary peripheral monitors look pretty poor - but they aren't s-IPS. Hence me thinking I should replace them, for some that are a bit smaller, but s-IPS. It's more a case of finding ones that are a good price now. They are more expensive than I was expecting them to be to be honest.

Those videos are good to get across the differences.

tomos · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2011, 03:05 PM »

another vote for the Dell Ultra-Sharp series (my model is "e-IPS", whatever that is...)

Dell have a very good & cheap series of IPS monitors (recommended by Prad.de here)
http://www1.euro.del...e&l=de&s=gen

For some reason the 23" one is available for as little as 230 euro - seems a crazy price to me for an IPS panel.
I bought the matte 22" 2209WA exactly a year ago (for around e300) - it has almost perfect RGB out of the box. It's great for the price (lighting at the sides [on my screen] is slightly uneven but only noticeable it when screen is an even grey

(sorry, dont have any english links)
-tomos (December 29, 2010, 09:18 AM)

the 2209 model is 16:10 = 1680x1050

nudone · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:11 PM »

Ath pointed out the Dell 2007FP, which could be perfect now that I've seen what else is out there. There are two problems though; I can't see anywhere that this model is s-ips or even ips and nor can I see that it will do portrait mode (the stand does look tall enough).

If anyone can see those details on this model then I'll be ready to order.

nudone · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:26 PM »

Tomos, does your monitor allow for portrait mode? I've just seen that Dell do a 2210 that can do portrait.

nudone · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:52 PM »

Okay, found this review with alarming statements further down: Dell use different types of screen whilst claiming it is the same model number - which it obviously is not.

http://reviews.cnet....3174_7-31783700.html

Other than that the review states that the 2007FP will do portrait mode. I think I will sleep on it and probably buy a couple in the morning. I'll sell the monitors they are going to replace so even if the 2007s aren't s-ips i won't be any worse off.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:56 PM »

Haven't you noticed - Dell don't actually make anything. They assemble computers but apart from that everything else is just rebadged stuff from other manufacturers.

tomos · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2011, 12:28 PM »

Tomos, does your monitor allow for portrait mode?
-nudone (August 21, 2011, 05:26 PM)

Yes, it's easy to use - but I dont actually use it.
What I also like about it is the 16:10 ratio, I think others monitors from Dell also use this format.
Review summary:
http://www.prad.de/e...rt15.html#Conclusion

Cant comment specifically on other models...

Ath · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2011, 02:46 PM »

Today I saw an announcement from Iiyama on a 24" and 27" full-hd (1920x1080) monitor that support portrait mode, and by using VA panels, claim a viewing angle of 178 degrees. The specs seem to be available from the Japanese site only, and I found this link to a Japanese language pdf

nudone · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2011, 05:25 PM »

I've gone for the dell 2007fp as this is the screen size and ratio I'm after; the viewing angles when in portrait mode are something I'm taking a gamble on. I shall order a second identical monitor after I've used this one - or not if I'm very disappointed with it.

Thanks to everyone in this thread that helped me decide what to get. I'll post what the screen is like when it arrives.

nudone · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2011, 04:33 AM »

The (first) Dell 2007FP has arrived and I've just plugged it in. And...

...it's very good indeed. I'm not sure what the type of screen is, maybe I can find out from the model number. To me, it looks like it's slightly inferior to the main HP ZR30W screen (s-ips) but a whole lot better than the bog standard screen it replaces.

So, I'm happy with my purchase.

I will definitely be getting a second one within the next few days.

(I've got a Spyder 3 Elite on order so, hopefully, I can get a good colour match across all the screens. I will post about that when it happens.)

tomos · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2011, 04:36 AM »

The (first) Dell 2007FP has arrived and I've just plugged it in. And...

...it's very good indeed.
...
-nudone (August 24, 2011, 04:33 AM)

phew

Ath · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:40 AM »

...it's very good indeed.
-nudone (August 24, 2011, 04:33 AM)

Glad it worked out so good

I'm not sure what the type of screen is, maybe I can find out from the model number. To me, it looks like it's slightly inferior to the main HP ZR30W screen (s-ips) but a whole lot better than the bog standard screen it replaces.
-nudone (August 24, 2011, 04:33 AM)

The docs on the Dell site talk about TFT Active Matrix ('Thin Film Transistor'), and AFAIR that's the ~~old~~ original name for an IPS panel, so assuming s-IPS meaning 'Super-IPS', the HP is expected to be a bit better, but the Dell should indeed be a whole lot better than any TN panel and most VA panels.

nudone · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:53 AM »

Oh, right, that's interesting. I'd really got myself confused then (mainly by just assuming and not reading things properly).

I was wrongly assuming that TFT meant the lowest level of quality screens and that Dell's information just wasn't detailed enough to state the 2007FP used another technology.

That means, I probably dismissed a lot of other screens I was considering as they said TFT and I thought that meant they weren't very good.

I'm sure you are right, though, Ath. The Dell screen is definitely nearly as good as the HP screen.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2011, 07:58 AM »

Nudone has bought something he likes

Time for to celebrate a first ....