Sorry but with all due respect it's you who are making assumptions.
If Apple products were actually universally easier to use I might agree with you, but they're not.
I don't think this is correct. Think of it this way. Let's say you don't use computers that much, and you don't really care about computers. But you have to use it because that's life. So you are not consciously thinking "Wow, I can do so many things with this technology. Can I do [this]? How? Can I do [that]? How?" This is the mistake you are making. You are thinking that someone who buys Apple likes to think that way. But most reasonable Apple users are thinking, "Oh shit, I have to use a computer? Fine...how can I get this over with as soon as possible and get back to doing things I care about which has nothing to do with technology and computers?" If you are that person, an Apple is easier to use. If you're going to dispute that, I just think you are flat out wrong.
-superboyac
I do dispute that. You call me wrong on what basis? You assume I am basing this solely on my own use of Apple products and my own preferences, yes? Incorrect. I am in fact basing this largely discussion with many Apple users - both serious and casual - and careful observation of the *reality* of Apple product use, not the rose-tinted version that Apple themselves and their fans like to tell you. For example I have a friend with an iPhone, he hates it, planning to replace it ASAP with an Android phone. Is he a Windows user? Yes he is, but he's very, very far from a computer expert, one could hardly even call him "savvy". And why does he hate his iPhone? iTunes, single button limitations, proprietary connectors and expensive accessories, and more. There have been previous discussion threads where I've pointed out several examples of clearly bad, unintuitive design in Apple products as well.
I've always wanted to do a fair, blind test using people with no experience of either platform to see which is *actually* more intuitive and easier to use, and I think until and unless something like that is done there will be no agreement on this debate. But I stand firm in my position that Apple's place as "easiest to use" is not as clear-cut and solid as claimed.
The problem I have with the Apple crowd then isn't that they value ease of use (hey, so do I!), it's that they identify Apple as essentially being the epitome of ease of use, generally ignoring all evidence to the contrary, whether it be inconsistencies and unintuitiveness in an Apple product, or really well implemented systems and tools on Windows.
Your mixing the same issue up again. You are trying to think like yourself (the same way I think), yet trying to address the issue that someone like you and I don't put a priority on. We don't put a high priority on ease of use, because we're so experienced that complicated things ARE easy to use for us. But that doesn't mean the thing isn't complicated. Apple users don't give a shit about "systems and tools". You are thinking about things way deeper than anything that Apple users care about. That doesn't make them wrong, or you "better". All it says is that you care about different things.
-superboyac
Speak for yourself. I put a high priority on ease of use, *especially* in the gadget/portable electronic market that is increasingly Apple's main revenue source. Android was a completely new platform to me and I've never been comfortable with Linux, but I picked it up quickly and have generally enjoyed it. iPhone and I got along less well. I may have more complex needs, but not all my needs are complex and I still appreciate simplicity and good design. Meanwhile in critiquing my point you ignored the fact that what I am taking issue with is not so much the appreciation of *good* design and UI, but rather ignoring examples of *bad* design and UI and forming one's opinion on a filtered view of their *own* experience. This happens a lot in religion and any general fanaticism and I just can't get behind the "you care about different things" perspective as an explanation for that, unless what they care about is only agreeing with the makers of whatever they've purchased, in which case it's not an admirable position anyway.
Regardless of all that I've found *users* of Windows to be far less fanatical, dogmatic, and quite frankly passionate about their choice of platform.
That's because, first, you sympathize with them, so you are naturally going to be more at peace with them. Secondly, people who prefer Windows are generally more experienced computer users than Apple users. So talking about computer geek stuff logically with them will be a pleasant, practical discussion. If you lived on a farm, and drove a tractor most of the time, and a city slicker came up to you and said "my Lexus is better than your tractor", it's silly. What kind of discussion will take place? Any argument or debate stemming from that will be inevitably unreasonable regardless of the best intentions of both parties. You wouldn't drive a Lexus around a farm, and you wouldn't drive a tractor to the office. What is there to argue?
-superboyac
I'm not talking about people who "prefer" Windows. Again with the assumptions. Preference of Windows indicates active choice based on that as a guiding factor. I'm mostly talking about people who either bought a Windows PC for cost reasons, or because it's all they've ever used and is what they're comfortable with. The vast, vast majority of people I know who use computers are *not* experts or particularly savvy. The whole point is that they don't make their use of a particular platform a major life choice, much less an identity issue, so they don't defend it fiercely or unreasonably. They have no *loyalty* to it besides that of practicality. Apple users have fierce brand loyalty and their annoying nature is akin to Sony fans in my book (although there are fewer and fewer of those these days
).
Your comparison with a Lexus and a tractor doesn't really make sense to me. They are related in mechanics only, with totally different purposes. A discussion of brand loyalty between similarly capable and purposed systems seems better exemplified by comparison of the same in the car world, Lexus and Infinity perhaps? And there's where your analogy makes clear my argument: none of my friends drive *either*. None of my friends are buying Alienware or VoodooPC and bragging about it *either*. They're just using their computers to *do stuff*, and if you ask them why they use that particular computer, they have practical reasons for it. They are not always even logical, but they are reasonable. My friends drive a car because it works for them, maybe because they got a good deal on it or parts for it are cheap or it's low maintenance.
Apple fans tend to be unreasonable and that's why I dislike them.
- Oshyan
