Apple - not quite grasping the concept of privacy.

[Renegade]

Random Mac user funniness:

http://www.facebook....127772446&type=1

[Stoic Joker]

Well that used up a good bit of my morning (hehe), I liked this one:

[nudone]

Hehehehe.

Absolutely.

[Renegade]

I found this one cute:

[Carol Haynes]

Just to redress the balance:

[Renegade]

Ooops... I kind of started some thread derailment there... anyways... back on track...

THESE ARE NOT THE DROIDS YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. MOVE ALONG...


Apple denies tracking iPhone users, but promises changes

http://www.pcworld.i...rs_promises_changes/

Apple today denied that it tracks iPhone and iPad users, saying that "users are confused" about the issue.

In a statement posted on its Web site, Apple defended the practice, but admitted that there were bugs in its software that would be fixed "in the next few weeks" with an update to iOS, the mobile operating system that powers the iPhone and iPad.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA~!

Ahem... I believe that I had it right the first time... These are not the droids you are looking for...

From the horse's mouth:

http://www.apple.com...4/27location_qa.html

3. Why is my iPhone logging my location?
The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location

Huh? Then whence came the journey maps?

9. Does Apple currently provide any data collected from iPhones to third parties?
We provide anonymous crash logs from users that have opted in to third-party developers to help them debug their apps. Our iAds advertising system can use location as a factor in targeting ads. Location is not shared with any third party or ad unless the user explicitly approves giving the current location to the current ad (for example, to request the ad locate the Target store nearest them).

Their EULA says otherwise.

Spin. Spin. Spin.

It's possible that they are telling the truth. Remotely possible. But for a company with a consistent track record of treating their customers and developers with such utter contempt, I rather doubt it.

5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.

Nonsense. If they want to, they can. All phones have unique identifiers that are readily available and personally identifying. Cell tower triangulation is accurate to within 100 m or so. Whether or not they use it is another matter. Can they? YES! Do they? I don't know. (It's encrypted anyways, so only Apple can know.) But saying they "cannot" is a black lie. Did they slip up and simply write that badly? Don't know. But it's still factually incorrect. (I'm nitpicking a bit, but Apple seems to like nitpicking. What's good for the goose and gander and all...)

I wish I knew the truth behind all of this.

[Stoic Joker]

I wish I knew the truth behind all of this.

-Renegade (April 28, 2011, 09:40 AM)

Truth is they are auto-magically generating a log file with a complete disregard for the privacy of the person being logged. How they choose to try and justify said behavior is irrelevant ... The intention is clear enough.

[Deozaan]

I'm surprised they don't try to market it as a feature, like some of those recent folks at Google:

"We track everything about you so that one day you won't even have to decide what you want! We'll know and we'll automatically have your iDevice purchase/display it for you!"

[tomos]

they do claim that:

The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone’s location, which can be more than one hundred miles away from the iPhone.

which should be easy to check - and does not excuse the underhandedness of it all [edit] and probably still makes it fairly easy to track a person, if you wanted to [/edit]
(from Renegades 2nd link - "From the horse's mouth:" http://www.apple.com...4/27location_qa.html)

[Renegade]

@tomos

I'm not so sure about the truth of that. In #5 they are flat out lying (intentionally or unintentionally), so I find it hard to take anything they say at face value.

Reading that part again, I don't know if that's a half-truth either. But I'm not about to bother trying to check any of it. Got better things to do.

Still, I would be interested to read from someone that would actually do an impartial and clean investigation to find out exactly what is happening. Or at least up to the point of the Apple "black box".

[tomos]

@tomos

I'm not so sure about the truth of that.

-Renegade (April 28, 2011, 07:59 PM)

me neither lol

Still, I would be interested to read from someone that would actually do an impartial and clean investigation to find out exactly what is happening. Or at least up to the point of the Apple "black box".

-Renegade (April 28, 2011, 07:59 PM)

+1

[rxantos]

Just found out that not only the iPhone and the Android are tracking your location. The kindle does that too.

http://www.mobilerea...owthread.php?t=51371

If you see in the log that is sent to amazon

"HDR Latitude=37.334167,HDR Longitude=-122.031113,"

Which is basically the position of the kindle at a given time.

Why are this companies doing that? What do they gain with tracking their customers positions? Unless they sell the information, I do not understand why they do this BS behind ones back.

[nudone]

Probably like you said, sell the data on so ads can be targeted to you and your habits - or if they say they aren't doing that, then it is perhaps because they haven't got to that stage yet; in other words they are all gearing up for the time that they can do it

[Stoic Joker]

I think they're just trying to get the jump on the Orwellian dark horse "Big Brother" position. First the souls of the user-base are collected, then the get delivered to the dark overlords for entertainment & consumption.

This is why they thrive on our hatred...

[rxantos]

Another problem with this tracking (specially since is kept in a file) is that a person can steal your phone and know where you work, where you live, at what times you are home, etc, etc, etc.

[wreckedcarzz]

Late to the party, but concerning Android...

Am I incorrect in believing that this "functionality" can be disabled via Home -> Menu -> Settings -> Location & security -> Unchecking "Use wireless networks" and "Use GPS satellites"? I realize that you can't use *anything* location-based at that point and that cripples lots of applications, but does that not completely negate this issue as far as Android goes..?

[Deozaan]

I don't think so. The Android phone would still need to know your location to provide you with phone service. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

Maybe it would work if you enabled Airplane mode, which AFAIK completely disables all wireless communications on the device.

[Stoic Joker]

don't think so. The Android phone would still need to know your location to provide you with phone service.

-Deozaan (June 06, 2011, 02:19 PM)

  The "Phone" part of the phone only needs to know that a (totally ground based) cell tower is near enough for good signal. The tower's exact location isn't important, and the phones is completely irrelevant (to the phone).

[Deozaan]

don't think so. The Android phone would still need to know your location to provide you with phone service.

-Deozaan (June 06, 2011, 02:19 PM)

  The "Phone" part of the phone only needs to know that a (totally ground based) cell tower is near enough for good signal. The tower's exact location isn't important, and the phones is completely irrelevant (to the phone).

-Stoic Joker (June 06, 2011, 02:56 PM)

Yeah I guess I was a bit unclear on what I meant.

As I understand it, any cell phone looks for nearby cell towers in an attempt to get the strongest signal, and usually there are enough towers within range to triangulate your position. So the phone company would be able to know your position whether you had GPS/Wifi enabled or not.

In other words, disabling those two options wreckedcarzz mentioned might keep phone apps from getting access to your location details, but your service provider would still know (approximately) where you are as long as your phone has service.