Most Pirated Software?

[zridling]

Two votes are available if you need it. I have no idea which is the most pirated, just curious about what DC'ers perceive. This list does not include games, of course. I figure Call of Duty wins that one every year.

[Josh]

Could we have an "other" and respond with a post stating the title?

[Stoic Joker]

IMO


Autodesk Autocad - Hardware keyed and hard to use for beginners
Virus software (various) - Who ever updates that?
Microsoft Windows (XP-Vista-7) - Comes with machine and update requirements scare off most of the casual folks
Nero Burning - This is a good candidate, but isn't that expensive

Microsoft Office - Oh Yeah
Adobe Photoshop - Oh Yeah

These two are very popular, way expensive, and are still easy to casual copy if a bit of common sense is used.

[xtabber]

Virus software???  Surely you mean anti-virus, not that I can imagine anyone pirating anything in that category.

[Ath]

Autodesk Autocad - Hardware keyed ...

Isn't that for non-USA versions only? Or is the dongle-protection introduced there also?

[zridling]

@xtabber: thanks, corrected.
@Josh: It doesn't allow for a write-in, but let us know which one/s are more often pirated beyond this list.

PS: I'd love to know how much money Microsoft has lost to Chinese pirates in the past 13 years. I have colleagues who regularly return from China and each time they're carrying a suitcase full of movie and software DVDs they buy for $1-$2. I just shake my head: "Dude, just use Linux if you think this is the only way you can get this sofware."

[y0himba]

I cannot see why anyone would use pirated antivirus software.  If they can hack it to let people steal it, what else have they done to it? Just pay for what you own, sheesh.

[Stoic Joker]

Autodesk Autocad - Hardware keyed ...

Isn't that for non-USA versions only? Or is the dongle-protection introduced there also?

Yepper it's here in the US too. I've got a client that has had fits trying to keep their fully legal copy running because of the stupidly unstable Sentinal Hardware Key driver.

[Tuxman]

Photoshop, I presume. Although most people who pirate it never actually use it, it's "cool" to have it.

Bloatware bs.

[f0dder]

I cannot see why anyone would use pirated antivirus software.  If they can hack it to let people steal it, what else have they done to it? Just pay for what you own, sheesh.

Nothing, usually - as long as it's sourced from one of the reputable 0day groups, and not some random p2p site. You'll have a hard time finding people with larger egos than the 0day crackers, and they wouldn't want their reputations tainted with something as trivial as malware ^__^

Yepper it's here in the US too. I've got a client that has had fits trying to keep their fully legal copy running because of the stupidly unstable Sentinal Hardware Key driver.

Classic tale of stupid copy protections mainly screwing the legitimate end-users over. Dongles can be pretty effective, but it also means you'll get the attention of the most skilled reversers. Cubase has really nasty copy protection ("Users began to complain about the program being unresponsive as after initiating these functions as they had to wait some time before the program was released back to them. This 'lockup' increased exponentially in proportion to the size and complexity of the project" - wikipedia)... but even that has eventually been defeated.

[lanux128]

I cannot see why anyone would use pirated antivirus software.  If they can hack it to let people steal it, what else have they done to it? Just pay for what you own, sheesh.

it's quite oxymoronic but it does happen as the devs of Avast! antivirus found out.

[40hz]

reputable 0day groups,

I'm gonna add that to my yogi-ism & oxymoron collection.

[f0dder]

reputable 0day groups,

I'm gonna add that to my yogi-ism & oxymoron collection.

I was dead serious - I can't see the oxymoron there, honestly. There's some very talented people out there, and it's breeding ground for the next generation of serious security engineers

[40hz]

Including Asia does alter the equation a bit.

There's an old story about how Borland president Phillipe Kahn made a present of a copy of TurboPascal to a university professor friend when he visited China. Shortly after that, TurboPascal became China's single most popular program. Estimated deployment was in the hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately, Borland never sold even a single copy of TurboPascal to a customer in China.

[40hz]

reputable 0day groups,

I'm gonna add that to my yogi-ism & oxymoron collection.

I was dead serious - I can't see the oxymoron there, honestly. There's some very talented people out there, and it's breeding ground for the next generation of serious security engineers

And possibly the next generation of "serious" cyber-criminals and government black-ops operatives?

I'm not so sanguine as to believe they're all the cyber-equivalent of Robin Hood.

And they can be "gotten to" just like anybody else.

If they're that good - and they're smart enough to follow the money (or know when a threat made to them or their loved ones isn't a joke) - then I think the security industry just might miss the cut when it comes to making a career choice.

Don't forget, the 'bad guys' have talent scouts and recruiters too. You don't even need to speak Russian or Bulgarian to understand them any more.



P.S.

@f0dder - Quick note: I wasn't trying to mock your earlier comment. But I did find it a funny choice of words even if you were being dead serious about it. Honestly, I do understand what you're saying. And you do make a valid point even if I disagree to some extent about the likelihood of a "good outcome" resulting from your premise. No offense or criticism is intended.

[Bamse]

Perceive? I have always had the experience that absolute worst offenders in this area are people working within IT. With practically no exception, safe assumption to make though unfair if not offensive to a few of course. And here on DC with programmers and all? Perceive away but what do you pirate? would be a better question I think

[Paul Keith]

My pick:

MS Office - This is not only the original most pirated software but both professionals, casuals and most importantly Windows users expecting it to be bundled with the OS acquire.

Counter claims against these:

Photoshop - You have got to be kidding me if this is the most pirated software because hell I couldn't find a latest Photoshop software without encountering lots of fakes. Older versions, cool. Latest versions - I have a better chance of finding a legit non-malware copy of Windows than try and testing all the Photoshop versions that are out there. It is mostly notable for being the most handed down warez among friends besides MS Office but ease of acquisition? Forget about it. You can't even be sure you're getting the complete package. It's like the Sims. Even if you have a torrent of all the expansion packs, there's no guarantee you're getting the latest patched game, the latest items in the shops nor of the latest mods out there.

Windows - As much as people are pirating Windows, they are not massive updates. People pirate either XP or 7 and rare is it for someone to pirate both still. Not only that but - the chances of someone with a legit Windows pirating the OS is pretty low except for backup purposes.

AV Software - This used to be the case but nowadays which paid AV software is really that good? Not only that - they are separated per brands. Nod32 is/was obviously the most sought after but you will always have newbies going for Norton.

Nero Burning - Same thing as AV software

I cannot see why anyone would use pirated antivirus software.  If they can hack it to let people steal it, what else have they done to it? Just pay for what you own, sheesh.

It's actually the reverse. Often times people are so wary of a false hacked software that everyone is all eyeballs on the software looking for something that's off and this counts for casual users too obviously. The result being that it's almost rare for any false antivirus software to be seeded much.

On the flip side though, I doubt anyone is buying pirated AV cds. This is often more like a download and keep and don't look again until it's no longer working deal. I also think part of why cracked av software is popular is because people want to test run tons of things on that piece of software. Because of that, it's nearly impossible to get away with a hacked AV for long because a third of the acquirers of these softwares are probably security testers with virus files on hand and they test run the AV detection to the point of paranoia that something like malware would probably be detected by another set of their security programs/habits and methods.

[Bamse]

Yes, I did manage to get latest Photoshop + Elements. All in all it took may be 10 hours but then it was tested and "secure". Update proof? I doubt it. Uninstalled shortly after, worst crap I have ever seen. Most are more than happy with older and more proven to work versions.

My impression is that 9 out of 10 who post in public warez forum, p2p threads etc. are dumb as a door and understand very little of security and malware. They go by names only, like nod32 or kaspersky. I would be careful to suggest they do much thinking Also like with movies, music much activity is simply because it is possible. People get Photoshop just because they can, an extra Windows the same. What is actually being used, what can be used, could be another matter. Perhaps half of those with Photoshop really mainly use Paint.net? I would not be surprised. When I did this I downloaded tons more than I installed.

I don't know about pirating outside popular sources, where the dumb people go, but f0dder is probably correct. There are many ways to get what you desire. Knowing IT people is usually an advantage

"When I did this" means software programs, I am not clean when it comes to a few pdf files, few movies and some music. Besides a Windows or 2 for VM I don't do programs though.

[f0dder]

40hz: I'm not saying all the 0day crackers are Robin Hood style saints, and I don't doubt the least that some of them are also doing nefarious deeds. All I'm saying is that if you get a 0day release from one of the reputable groups, and it hasn't been tampered with because you got it from a REALLY lousy place, it's almost guaranteed to be malware-free.

Why? Those people don't want to lose their prestige. And those that don't care that much about prestige don't want to lose access to their 0-second gigabit-pipe several-hundred-terabyte warez sites - simple as that

Also, I can guarantee that several of you people are using software or commodity hardware where people which now includes code by people who used to remove software protection in their youth - and that people who've had their asses saved from malware have some of those people to thank as well.

Paul Keith: I haven't had an interest in Photoshop for ages, since it's a piece of bloat, and my needs are fulfilled perfectly by Paint.NET... but www.nfoogle.com suggests that it shouldn't really be hard getting hold of a copy of the latest & greatest Photoshop.

I agree fully with Bamse that a lot of people pirate stuff just because they can - a lot will just leech&forget, and of those that use stuff like Photoshop, a lot would've been satisfied with Paint.NET, except they want PS because it's zomgleet.

[40hz]

Yes, I did manage to get latest Photoshop + Elements. All in all it took may be 10 hours but then it was tested and "secure". Update proof? I doubt it. Uninstalled shortly after, worst crap I have ever seen. Most are more than happy with older and more proven to work versions.

Umm...even if it was just a quick load/try/remove deal... do you think that's a wise or considerate thing to come right out and admit doing on the public forum of a highly visible site where a number of its members and visitors write licensed software for a living?

Just thinking out loud here.

[40hz]

40hz: I'm not saying all the 0day crackers are Robin Hood style saints, and I don't doubt the least that some of them are also doing nefarious deeds. All I'm saying is that if you get a 0day release from one of the reputable groups, and it hasn't been tampered with because you got it from a REALLY lousy place, it's almost guaranteed to be malware-free.

Why? Those people don't want to lose their prestige. And those that don't care that much about prestige don't want to lose access to their 0-second gigabit-pipe several-hundred-terabyte warez sites - simple as that

Understood. Thx

[Bamse]

Yes, I did manage to get latest Photoshop + Elements. All in all it took may be 10 hours but then it was tested and "secure". Update proof? I doubt it. Uninstalled shortly after, worst crap I have ever seen. Most are more than happy with older and more proven to work versions.

Umm...even if it was just a quick load/try/remove deal... do you think that's a wise or considerate thing to come right out and admit doing on the public forum of a highly visible site where a number of its members and visitors write licensed software for a living?

Just thinking out loud here.

Admitting the obvious you mean? I don't think DC is any exception from my assumptions of IT people being the worst offenders but aware that it will sell very few tickets to claim that But sorry if it come off as offensive, I did not even mention China! just stating what I consider facts.

[Paul Keith]

Yes, I did manage to get latest Photoshop + Elements. All in all it took may be 10 hours but then it was tested and "secure". Update proof? I doubt it. Uninstalled shortly after, worst crap I have ever seen. Most are more than happy with older and more proven to work versions.

Lucky!  

My impression is that 9 out of 10 who post in public warez forum, p2p threads etc. are dumb as a door and understand very little of security and malware. They go by names only, like nod32 or kaspersky. I would be careful to suggest they do much thinking

...stop flaming me!!!

Just kidding.

Actually this is true but my point was, just knowing nod32 and kaspersky, means that the users not only read reviews - they are apt to have read things like Sandboxie and have a decent malware and free AV installed to begin with.

As these users download these apps, these users become more exposed to figuring out which is legit and which isn't legit at a basic level and thus you have a higher mix of these comments verifying these files as opposed to say... Photoshop where working versions are the thumbs up, not the actual functionality.

I don't know about pirating outside popular sources, where the dumb people go, but f0dder is probably correct. There are many ways to get what you desire. Knowing IT people is usually an advantage

Yup. Sucks to be me but to be honest it's not like unpopular sources are a secret. Just hard to configure plus for piracy, intelligence is not the measuring stick but uploader reputation and people who have access to certain sites.

Paul Keith: I haven't had an interest in Photoshop for ages, since it's a piece of bloat, and my needs are fulfilled perfectly by Paint.NET... but www.nfoogle.com suggests that it shouldn't really be hard getting hold of a copy of the latest & greatest Photoshop.

See, that assumes the average downloader not only know nfoogle but they can afford usenet or know how to circumvent that.

I don't even know nfoogle and the average pirating person doesn't either. (Note that piracy is such a huge spectrum, average means below average and above average means going beyond public torrents)

Also, again, it falls into verification. It's one thing to acquire Photoshop, it's another thing to acquire THE Photoshop and I think that's important.

If you're just leeching Photoshop for the sake of leeching Photoshop, you're not really pirating. Just blindly acquiring. If that's the criteria, one may as well count the number of false software acquired via Gnutella and Kazaa which is pointless because this thread is not about the most pirated virus.

Umm...even if it was just a quick load/try/remove deal... do you think that's a wise or considerate thing to come right out and admit doing on the public forum of a highly visible site where a number of its members and visitors write licensed software for a living?

Just thinking out loud here.

Yeah. I don't see any problem stating that.

It's really up to mouser to moderate the posts but the truth is, some of the most apt pirates are also some of the biggest software supporters.

It's a lot like the assumption that poor people prefer cheaper knock-offs when in reality, poor people prefer brands and those that can't afford brands - buy branded knock-offs but they don't know the quality.

Same thing with drug users. Setting aside addicts, it's safest to induce drugs with people who know the elements of drugs than those who merely sell it. In that sense, the best supporter against drug abuse are the drug users themselves who don't want their drugs to be further demonified.

With software, the ones who pirate software, are much more intelligent at figuring out which software they want to support. The end result is that these guys tend to support the software in this site rather than merely pay x popular software for their needs.

There are exceptions like me who can only donate to developers if others donate to me since I have no money but I really and firmly believe that piracy is the market deciding they want to pay for items they really want to pay. We're not doing it at a conscious level, but evolutionarily speaking, now marketers can't get us as addicted because if they do, consumers will react via piracy not blind payments.

[Bamse]

I was not lucky but persistent. Why is because I know Photoshop is the most difficult to get in a healthy/full condition and that I have made any possible mistake years ago. Was no better than those I call dumb. I am an experienced pensioned pirate, don't trust no one

I think the only way to fight piracy is to speak up about why and why not. Not so much about how of course. Ignoring piracy is living in an isolated world where you have heard it is a problem in China or where ever. Should be bad for business, must be. Numbers are huge! Problem is closer, for majority of DC members it is on their computer in some shape or form I don't think it matters one bit if they are devs with licensed software. Anyway, those who heavily pirate music also goes to concerts etc., feed the industry in other ways. Guilty or not is more complicated than it seems. I would guess quite a few of my imagined DC majority ALSO pay up for licensed software. The mighty LAW is bend over, so confusing - but how I think it is. With this people often make their own law and here I can see DC villains being more fair and eager with plastic card than average - still pirating though

[Paul Keith]

If you don't speak about the how, you're just white washing IMO.

It's like gun usage. You can support guns and gun laws but in a society where people don't know how to use guns in an educated manner, they aren't being safer.

Same thing with piracy. Alot of these videos white wash the dark side and the dark side is the key to figuring out why the market acts like this. Instead we have DRM, DRM, DRM...we have "oh it doesn't take away sales".

It just creates another exteme of lies like Jesus is your saviour or Christmas is about generosity without really sharing the true side of Christ' teachings or Christmas' marketing gift bonanza which leads to mob tramplings all year long.

In a way that's why I feel you are lucky. Lots of guys persist. I could show someone a cracking tool and they would persist in cracking all their games but if I told them about torrents over Limewire, there's not a good chance they might even try Limewire.

Why is that? Because not all of us get the luck of figuring out the puzzle. Me? I'll trade an instant ban of all scene music and movie and popular software releases if it means I'll have a free repository of all the real 5 star books and all the real 5 star collection of rare software that would change my life. Doesn't mean if I persist in that mindset, I'll figure out IRCs and UseNets unless I have the money and the knowledge to set up things like seedboxes and having a terabyte HD while not being lured to leech and get because I have a fast connection and I know which collections to seed.

Not going to happen though. In the end, I'm still a slave to wanting to get Photoshop because I don't know any better unless I can figure out feature per feature what the difference is between Photoshop and GIMP and GIMPShop and Paint.net. Can you imagine if more of us transcended the "how" of currency? We'd have given less of our freedoms to corporations because more people would have known how capitalism works.

Instead what we ended up is people speaking about the why and why not of capitalism and it helped for a while but in the end, it just created a bunch of wage slavers despite the fact that there's a minimum wage, despite the fact that nothing is preventing anyone from organizing a boycott, despite the fact that there were schools, despite the fact of all this... it was lost because we'd rather show someone why they need to fish rather than show them how to fish. So again, I'm sorry if I'm somewhat underrating your persistence because of this, but when linked to your piracy statement about not the how...I just need to respectfully disagree with your conclusion.