Author Topic: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010) (Read 95966 times)

Lutz_ · « **Reply #50 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:31 AM »

Oshyan, I could contribute some images. It sounds interesting.

Unfortunately, I am not a coder or website designer. But what do you intend to compare specifically? The default conversions ? (since some converters have soooo many tools and options?)

JavaJones · « **Reply #51 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:36 AM »

I'd be responsible for finding and hiring (or coercing

) a coder. I'm more interested in whether anyone else likes the idea and would contribute both source images and conversion test results.

The intention would be to compare anything and everything. Certainly I'd like to see default settings compared since this is the first thing many people see and without knowing a product many people will judge on that. But also "best result" settings with different programs, so someone could post an image from Adobe Lightroom that looks great and they'd provide the settings "Sharpen 33%, noise reduction 10% chroma, 5% luma, reduce black level by 5", etc. To make it easier there should probably be fields, maybe application-specific (so templates for each app would have to be made in that case - maybe a later addition to the site).

Anyway the focus would be on image comparison functions, plus making it easy to upload and group images for comparison.

- Oshyan

Dormouse · « **Reply #52 on:** April 15, 2010, 05:45 AM »

But also "best result" settings with different programs, so someone could post an image from Adobe Lightroom that looks great and they'd provide the settings "Sharpen 33%, noise reduction 10% chroma, 5% luma, reduce black level by 5", etc.
-JavaJones (April 15, 2010, 12:36 AM)

For me, the problem with the idea is that the "best settings" will be specific to both the program and the photo. And, when you are looking at any "best" result, you will probably be looking more at the user's preferences and skills than on the program's capabilities.

Since I mostly use DxO, an extra problem would be that I only have the modules relevant to my cameras & lenses. I can't remember if I can download others free (I think I can) but I'm not massively keen on loading my computer with lots of extra stuff when DxO has a fairly convoluted update/upgrade system.

JavaJones · « **Reply #53 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:50 PM »

But also "best result" settings with different programs, so someone could post an image from Adobe Lightroom that looks great and they'd provide the settings "Sharpen 33%, noise reduction 10% chroma, 5% luma, reduce black level by 5", etc.
-JavaJones (April 15, 2010, 12:36 AM)

For me, the problem with the idea is that the "best settings" will be specific to both the program and the photo. And, when you are looking at any "best" result, you will probably be looking more at the user's preferences and skills than on the program's capabilities.

Since I mostly use DxO, an extra problem would be that I only have the modules relevant to my cameras & lenses. I can't remember if I can download others free (I think I can) but I'm not massively keen on loading my computer with lots of extra stuff when DxO has a fairly convoluted update/upgrade system.
-Dormouse (April 15, 2010, 05:45 AM)

Granted that the settings would be specific to the image and the program, but that's kind of the point. Given A: a common image and B: a piece of software how do you C: obtain the best result? It will vary from photo to photo, but I am quite certain that patterns will emerge over time that can be extrapolated across many photos. It is not so *totally* different from image to image, in fact there is a lot of overlap. It also has somewhat to do with personal taste of course, but this could potentially be reflected with votes, e.g. vote for the favorite processed image in a comparison. So let's say 10 people process the same photo with DxO, and one person manages to get a lot more clarity out of it, while still maintaining the "dreamlike" quality of the original image. That person's image gets voted up, and people can examine their settings to get an idea of what they've done.

Seems like an interesting way to share processing knowledge to me, while at the same time helping to determine what the best RAW processors are, and also what are common problems for RAW processors. It could he helpful and informative to the software developers too, giving them a crowd sourced repository of challenging RAW processing scenarios (images).

- Oshyan

Jibz · « **Reply #54 on:** April 15, 2010, 12:54 PM »

Sounds like an interesting idea

.

JavaJones · « **Reply #55 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:22 PM »

Just to clarify as I think my last post was not totally solid on this: Part of the idea here is that multiple users of a given app would learn from each other using specific and easily comparable examples. This is a system designed for image comparison and differentiation. So it's not just that you'd find out whether DxO handles Sony RAW files better than Capture One, you'd also find out how other Sony users use DxO to process their RAW files.

If voting were involved, imagine a statistics are that shows the most highly voted processing results, and aggregates them across RAW processors, taking numerical result representation into account (i.e. if one app does not have as many processed results as another it is noted as a less accurate result, but is not "punished").

I think it could be a very powerful learning and product comparison tool. I'd call it "RAW Spot", or maybe "RAWsome".

- Oshyan

tomos · « **Reply #56 on:** April 15, 2010, 03:01 PM »

If voting were involved, imagine a statistics are that shows the most highly voted processing results, and aggregates them across RAW processors, taking numerical result representation into account (i.e. if one app does not have as many processed results as another it is noted as a less accurate result, but is not "punished").
-JavaJones (April 15, 2010, 01:22 PM)

you'd have to be careful with voting - the problem Rob (I think that's his name - Sagelight) pointed out was that initially people were choosing the conversion that was damaged over the one that was better converted. But I guess you'd be aware of that...

JavaJones · « **Reply #57 on:** April 15, 2010, 03:10 PM »

Yeah, I think there are a couple things to consider with voting.

First of all this would theoretically be a community of serious RAW enthusiasts, so they'd know what they're looking for. Seeing blown highlights, clipped shadows, etc. would theoretically make them rate something down, even if the overall contrast and tone were "pleasing".

I think it would also be good to have at least a few categories for rating, perhaps with the final score an aggregate or something. So for example rate on the following attributes that are particular to RAW conversion: Range Preservation, Detail, Overall Appeal. Careful selection of the rating criteria should help ensure reasonably reliable results.

Methods to discourage favoritism might be necessary as well. It would be important to consider whether votes should be anonymous. Votes might also include comments (optionally). It could be like ratings/reviews on e.g. Newegg or Amazon for example (Newegg perhaps more applicable as the review there are generally short).

The idea of the site continues to evolve in my mind, but the core concept is definitely consistent, and remains appealing to me. I still don't hear a lot of interest from others, though I certainly appreciate the feedback, ideas, and constructive criticism. But, would you use the site?

- Oshyan

tomos · « **Reply #58 on:** April 15, 2010, 03:18 PM »

But, would you use the site?
-JavaJones (April 15, 2010, 03:10 PM)

lol - I dont use RAW - I just following the discussion & like keeping track of things photographic

any other takers ??

cthorpe · « **Reply #59 on:** April 16, 2010, 08:33 AM »

As we are no longer really discussing the Sagelight deal, I propose moving our discussion on RAW converters to a new thread in "General Software Discussion." Perhaps a moderator could split the thread for us?

Jibz · « **Reply #60 on:** April 16, 2010, 08:51 AM »

Methods to discourage favoritism might be necessary as well. It would be important to consider whether votes should be anonymous. Votes might also include comments (optionally). It could be like ratings/reviews on e.g. Newegg or Amazon for example (Newegg perhaps more applicable as the review there are generally short).
-JavaJones (April 15, 2010, 03:10 PM)

Blind tests where the browser shows a closeup from an image from say 4 random programs and the person rating has to pick the one she likes best without knowing which program they came from would be interesting, and could maybe cut back a little on say all the bibble zealots voting up bibble images

.

JavaJones · « **Reply #61 on:** April 16, 2010, 01:30 PM »

1: Agreed, a thread split is probably advisable. Incidentally I did take advantage of the "pay what you want" sale - $20 - mostly on the basis of how nice and informative the dev is.

2: Jibz, that's a good idea. I'll add it to my project tracker.

- Oshyan

Darwin · « **Reply #62 on:** April 16, 2010, 02:35 PM »

1: Agreed, a thread split is probably advisable. Incidentally I did take advantage of the "pay what you want" sale - $20 - mostly on the basis of how nice and informative the dev is.
-JavaJones (April 16, 2010, 01:30 PM)

Me too! Of course, I also purchased Helicon Filter when it was on BDJ

cthorpe · « **Reply #63 on:** April 16, 2010, 02:45 PM »

Blind tests where the browser shows a closeup from an image from say 4 random programs and the person rating has to pick the one she likes best without knowing which program they came from would be interesting, and could maybe cut back a little on say all the bibble zealots voting up bibble images
-Jibz (April 16, 2010, 08:51 AM)

How about something like Kitten War? http://kittenwar.com/

JavaJones · « **Reply #64 on:** April 16, 2010, 04:14 PM »

Yeah, kittenwar and similar sites are definitely an interesting model, but I'm not sure the approach lends itself that well to the kind of close scrutiny comparisons needed in this case. Worth considering though...

- Oshyan

J-Mac · « **Reply #65 on:** April 17, 2010, 12:11 PM »

1: Agreed, a thread split is probably advisable. Incidentally I did take advantage of the "pay what you want" sale - $20 - mostly on the basis of how nice and informative the dev is.
-JavaJones (April 16, 2010, 01:30 PM)

Me too! Of course, I also purchased Helicon Filter when it was on BDJ
-Darwin (April 16, 2010, 02:35 PM)

Wow - I am SO surprised! (Kidding! You know you're my software hero!)

Jim

Curt · « **Reply #66 on:** April 17, 2010, 12:22 PM »

1: Agreed, a thread split is probably advisable. Incidentally I did take advantage of the "pay what you want" sale - $20 - mostly on the basis of how nice and informative the dev is.
-JavaJones (April 16, 2010, 01:30 PM)

Me too! Of course, I also purchased Helicon Filter when it was on BDJ
-Darwin (April 16, 2010, 02:35 PM)

Wow - I am SO surprised! (Kidding! You know you're my software hero!)

Jim
-J-Mac (April 17, 2010, 12:11 PM)

- hmm... if this is a way to become a hero, I might have a future in the Hall of ShFame...

J-Mac · « **Reply #67 on:** April 17, 2010, 03:00 PM »

Don’t think so - you haven't seen Mr. Darwin's software collection! Or mine!

Thanks!

Jim

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #68 on:** June 09, 2010, 01:24 PM »

I gave the promo a try, paying just the few dollars I happened to have sitting in my PayPal account. Having finally tried it and really enjoyed it, I'm wishing I had paid more.

Does anyone know if there's a way to donate additional money?

Lutz_ · « **Reply #69 on:** June 09, 2010, 05:03 PM »

please see next post

Lutz_ · « **Reply #70 on:** June 09, 2010, 05:04 PM »

I guess you could just sent the donation by Paypal to the author at " rob at sagelighteditor dot com " - the email address should be enough, or not?

I gave the promo a try, paying just the few dollars I happened to have sitting in my PayPal account. Having finally tried it and really enjoyed it, I'm wishing I had paid more.

Does anyone know if there's a way to donate additional money?
-CWuestefeld (June 09, 2010, 01:24 PM)
-Lutz_ (June 09, 2010, 05:03 PM)

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #71 on:** September 23, 2010, 10:57 AM »

Back at the time of this thread (June) I wanted to make a comment on Sagelight's discussion board. I registered an account, and have been waiting ever since for it to be approved. I sent the developer a message on the board asking to have it approved. I've resolved that although I want to send additional money, I'm not going to do so until I can at least make that comment.

But now, the whole discussion board has been turned off. The developer hasn't made a post in several months, and last week I noticed that he hasn't even logged into the board since August.

I'd think that this marks the death of the product, except that the developer also recently reworked the website a bit, and posted a flurry of new articles to his blog.

Does anybody have a clue what's going on with Sagelight?

Curt · « **Reply #72 on:** September 23, 2010, 11:51 AM »

http://sagelightedit...rdpress.com/2010/09/

J-Mac · « **Reply #73 on:** September 23, 2010, 12:52 PM »

http://sagelightedit...rdpress.com/2010/09/
-Curt (September 23, 2010, 11:51 AM)

Curt, II' not sure what the link is - this went to the blog. CWuesterfield said the dev. had made some blog posts but that thet forum was at first ignored and then gone. I can't find the forum either! I thought that maybe you had found it.

Doesn’t seem like the guy is abandoning it since he is posting articles in his blog, but it is weird that he dumped the forum without warning. Unless he did announce the removal of the forum and I just missed it, which is definitely a possibility.

Thanks!

Jim

Rob Nelson · « **Reply #74 on:** September 23, 2010, 01:18 PM »

Hi, Everyone.

I'd like to address the issue of where Sagelight is at and the discussion board being turned off temporarily.

But, let me start with where the heck I've been for the last few months.

Basically, I've been so swamped with with issues inside of the company (which was once as large as two whole people) that I have not been able to address things properly. The discussion board, for example, can easily take up 3 hours of my time a day, and I've been having to split my time between these internal issues and continuing development. I do answer personal e-mails, so if you've sent one I guess I didn't get it. It should be sent to [email protected] -- ([email protected] was being used by the discussion board, and that URL no longer exists).

I am 90% complete with version 4, but have spent the last 5 weeks addressing things like revamping the website, the new posts, and many other details that, as the developer, I had hoped not to do. I was hoping that the other arm of the company would have taken over these duties, but, for various reasons, this never happened.

So, I found myself in a position where I wanted to get version 4 done, address the discussion board, and also deal with promotion of the software, website creation and development, blog posts, etc. But, I do have to concentrate on the public side of it, because sales (i.e. income) is the thing that enables the development, and the need to work on this side of the equation takes me away from development.

I have developed so much technology for version 4.0 and I am very excited about getting it out. I am hoping to get back to development soon.

Basically, Sagelight is currently being manned by 1 person where a minimum of 2 people is really necessary.

I had intended to return to the discussion board a while back with the introduction of version 4. But, version 4 is turning out to be such an advancement with a lot of technology and code that I've developed, it's taking longer to get out than I wanted it to. This is also because I had to deal with these other issues I mentioned and have not had the time I've wanted to finally cap it off. I am just about to return to the development to get a release out in hopefully 2-3 weeks, sans some items that will just have to wait a little but longer; but, hopefully once the ball is rolling, I can come out with some updates as soon as possible after that.

This is why I recently went to lifetime licenses, at least for the time-being (at least until 4.0 is out), as I roll out this new version, because I want to make sure that no one has to worry about getting upgraded if they buy the current version.

The discussion board is down as I decide how to handle it, but should be back up in 2-3 days. I am finishing up what I consider to be an advance on the "Vibrance" technology (to use a Ligthroom term, though I plan to call it something else) that I want to finish first, and hopefully this will just be a couple more days, and then I will be activate the discussion board once I've had a chance to address some of the messages.

So, the discussion board is just shut down until I can get this one algorithm finished and address the board. I have not been on it lately because I was hoping to get someone else on it, but that didn't happen, and I have just not had the personal bandwidth to deal with it properly, at least until I get 4.0 out.

So 4.0 will be out as soon as I can get it there. But, like I said, that's why I'm offering liftetime licenses right now, just to avoid any confusion about updating it later on.

I hope that explains things. But, I do want to let you know that my not being around as much as I'd like has been to focus on the development of 4.0 as much as I can, under the circumstances. I can't really publicly discuss the details of 4.0, for obvious reasons. But, if anyone wants to write me an e-mail, I'll be happy to provide a link to an overview with some samples.

Rob
[email protected]

P.S. For the blog try just http://sagelighteditor.wordpress.com (there is also a link to it from www.sagelighteditor.com)