Author Topic: Let's Fork The Thread! Linux Notetaking Thread! (Read 50693 times)

urlwolf · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:38 PM »

my guess is that a linux FF plugin would not know how to talk to he wine-emulated app.

urlwolf · « **Reply #26 on:** August 19, 2009, 12:30 PM »

ok, I posted this plea to ubuntuforums too, but nobody answered.
Looks like we are on our own.
Still, a donation of say 30$ (typical license price) x 3 is a litle bit of money for an OSS author. It would a smile in her face, even if small.

Should we agree on a project and go ahead?

tinjaw · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:29 PM »

I'm not volunteering my time, but merely a suggestion. Start with a wiki to describe what you want and let everybody contribute.

coolrat · « **Reply #28 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:17 PM »

HI
I've been using TreeDBNotes 3.xx running in WINE on my Debian Linux system for about 2 years.
I switched almost exclusively to Linux 2 years ago-- the only thing holding me back was OneNote- a great application.

I tested a number of applications and found that TreeDBNotes run well in Linux, Windows and was portable.
I've asked the developer many times to keep WINE compatibility in mind when issuing new versions. It seems that other people have asked too and now he is testing his application in Linux now to improve its function in WINE (there are the occasional problem with formatting, and fonts and other small issues). Apparently the developer is also developing a web clipping plugin.

I"ve been very impressed by TreeDBNotes and thought that others who want a good note program for Linux might want to try it out.

I'm also intrigued by NoteCase Pro, but so far, it i a bit too simple and doesn't have the functions I want.

For me, the software must be a robust database with advanced search features, able to preserve all formatting of WORD and especially OpenOffice documents, be able to copy and paste from Firefox with formatting intact, accept double-byte characters for Asian fonts

I will try MindRaider tonight as it does look promising.

How do KeepNotes and Notecase Pro compare? Does anyone have experience with these 2 programs?

coolrat · « **Reply #29 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:49 PM »

ok, I posted this plea to ubuntuforums too, but nobody answered.
Looks like we are on our own.
Still, a donation of say 30$ (typical license price) x 3 is a litle bit of money for an OSS author. It would a smile in her face, even if small.

Should we agree on a project and go ahead?
-urlwolf (August 19, 2009, 12:30 PM)

This is a very good idea! If a number of us bought many licenses together, it might be a big boost for a developer. I'd be happy to buy several licenses!

I'm not sure which software and developer might be the best candidate to approach.
I'd guess priority should be given to supporting something that's open source and multi-platform:
- Research Assistant
- MindRaider
- KeepNotes
- NoteCase Pro (the 'Pro' version is not open source it seems)

The above all seem to be multi-platform.
If they dont' work, then these windows programs might be adapted to work better in WINE. The developers indicated that they might work on better Linux compatibility if there was enough interest.
- TreeDBnotes
- RightNote

And a great application:
MyBase. The trick would be to convince the developer to make a Linux version.

urlwolf · « **Reply #30 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:50 PM »

Hi coolrat.
In my view rightNote = treDBnotes, but much more polished.
Unfortunately, I sent quite a lot of feedback to the dev, which he systematically ignored

, and he doesn't really care for linux at all it seems.

I'm really surprised at how big the opportunity here is. There 's a huge hole in the market for something like oneNote for linux (or portable and not tied to a vendor in the files it produces!). For example:

OneNote is fantastic. It's the only MS product I like, but it's great. It beats paper and pencil because 1) it can be searched, 2) it can be backed up, 3) you can insert in something you've already written, 4) sensitive entries can be encrypted, 5) one can easily make cross-reference links, etc, etc. I use it on a tablet, and it's great, for example, for deriving equations, as you can write the equation with the pen, and then type a paragraph of descriptive text, and insert a link from the web. I wish it was available for Linux, as it's the only reason I use Windows.

from: http://stackoverflow...notes-as-a-developer

I'm in the same boat as that commenter at StackOverflow. Maybe devs are scared of competing with M$?

urlwolf · « **Reply #31 on:** August 23, 2009, 12:53 PM »

Yet another option is to lobby microsoft (humor me

) to make onenote write to some friendly format that another app can use. Word, excel etc now use xml. Onenote doesn't. If it did, vendor lock-in is gone and also other devs could offer some kind of interoperability, and (gasp!) a tool on linux that understands and writes it!

coolrat · « **Reply #32 on:** August 23, 2009, 09:35 PM »

Hi coolrat.
In my view rightNote = treDBnotes, but much more polished.
Unfortunately, I sent quite a lot of feedback to the dev, which he systematically ignored , and he doesn't really care for linux at all it seems.

I'm really surprised at how big the opportunity here is. There 's a huge hole in the market for something like oneNote for linux (or portable and not tied to a vendor in the files it produces!).
-urlwolf (August 23, 2009, 12:50 PM)

I haven't tried RightNotes but became interested in it from its website. I have downloaded it, but havent' installed it yet in WINE.
I wrote to the developer a few days ago and he DID reply. He said that he had many many requests for a Linux version but thought that Linux users might not be willing to pay for software. I assured him that many WOULD in fact be willing to pay for good software.

Like you mentioned, I urged the developer that the Linux market was growing daily and right now, there is a huge hole in the Linux market for a good note application. So I'm waiting for his reply. Maybe you should contact him with your/our plan?

What about Mindraider, ResearchAssistant or NoteCasePro? I think these OpenSource initiatives should be given first priority. I'm happy to help pay for their development if they remain open source. Think of how many people in developing countries (or people lacking financial resources regardless of where they live) could benefit from note-taking software. Generally, these programs run well on low-powered older computers.

(hahaha URLWOLF- that was funny! Ask Microsoft! HOHOHO. Even if they made a Linux version, I'd never go back. Plus isn't OneNote around 400 megs? My TreeDBnotes is about 7 megs!)

adriatic · « **Reply #33 on:** August 24, 2009, 04:46 AM »

Hi, I am the author of Notecase (Pro) program.
Nice thread, I got few interesting ideas here (the one to preserve URL of pasted content is new to me).

To give you my 2 cents of advice:
quite a lot of program authors would live to get good high quality feedback and ideas on how to improve his program.

When/if you decide on a program you want to support, it would be good to invest some time to make detailed analysis (as a group) to help the author to see your vision of the progress for the program.
Perhaps it is the best to to this before your contribution because some features you want to push might get rejected :-)

urlwolf · « **Reply #34 on:** August 24, 2009, 05:10 AM »

Hi, I am the author of Notecase (Pro) program.
Nice thread, I got few interesting ideas here (the one to preserve URL of pasted content is new to me).
-adriatic (August 24, 2009, 04:46 AM)

No offense, but if you are in the notetaking market and this feature is new to you now, I cannot help but thinking that you are not applying due diligence and checking what others in the market do. This feature has been in onenote for at least 6 years, and everyone loves it.

To give you my 2 cents of advice:
quite a lot of program authors would live to get good high quality feedback and ideas on how to improve his program.

When/if you decide on a program you want to support, it would be good to invest some time to make detailed analysis (as a group) to help the author to see your vision of the progress for the program.
Perhaps it is the best to to this before your contribution because some features you want to push might get rejected :-)
-adriatic (August 24, 2009, 04:46 AM)

Well, my advice here is, install onenote, use it seriously for a couple of months, and then you would find many things you may want to implement.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #35 on:** August 24, 2009, 06:12 AM »

I'm a bit confused by this thread. Is it a topic for how to reverse engineer OneNote or combine all the current Linux notetaking programs into one?

coolrat · « **Reply #36 on:** August 24, 2009, 08:09 AM »

Hi, I am the author of Notecase (Pro) program.
Nice thread, I got few interesting ideas here (the one to preserve URL of pasted content is new to me).

To give you my 2 cents of advice:
quite a lot of program authors would live to get good high quality feedback and ideas on how to improve his program.

When/if you decide on a program you want to support, it would be good to invest some time to make detailed analysis (as a group) to help the author to see your vision of the progress for the program.
Perhaps it is the best to to this before your contribution because some features you want to push might get rejected :-)
-adriatic (August 24, 2009, 04:46 AM)

Adriatic is right- we should make a list:
1. the types of features we want and include diagrams or screen shots.
2. we should also point out the things we do not want and do NOT like about certain applications/features

We can't ask a developer to do everything and hope it is what we want. Also, they have their own ideas and have spent years studying various ways of organizing data and they are, after all, in charge of the project

Adriatic is a very responsive developer and very keen on seeing his project develop. Let's provide constructive advice and work together.

adriatic · « **Reply #37 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:38 AM »

Note that I might be the first one to reject some of the ideas

What I am interested is to get good quality feedback on my program,
and to get good ideas for features to add.

Since this site has quite a long thread on outliners, I am pretty sure this
group can produce some good quality thinking here.

Anyway, I would like to cooperate, but I am aware that my program might not be the obvious choice
(since it is a closed source program).

adriatic · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2009, 10:48 AM »

No offense, but if you are in the notetaking market and this feature is new to you now, I cannot help but thinking that you are not applying due diligence and checking what others in the market do. This feature has been in onenote for at least 6 years, and everyone loves it.
d many things you may want to implement.
-urlwolf (August 24, 2009, 05:10 AM)

Have you ever looked the things from the perspective of software author ?
The development of a decent program (especially cross platform) takes quite a lot of work, time and effort.
Why assume everyone has used (or bought) OneNote. If this feature was so standard, why other programs didn't all implemented this feature ?

coolrat · « **Reply #39 on:** August 24, 2009, 12:17 PM »

Good point adriatic.

Of course a developer cannot be familiar with every piece of software. So its very reasonable that not every developer has used OneNote or all the note-taking programs would clearly be influenced by it. And that is not the case.

Instead of criticizing someone's lack of familiarity with a software application, lets build a list of what we do want and show it to adriatic and see if we can contribute to his very decent program.

How shall we begin?

urlwolf · « **Reply #40 on:** August 28, 2009, 10:35 AM »

I cannot write much on a kb for a few weeks, so please take the lead. I'll follow the thread anyway.

adriatic · « **Reply #41 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:37 AM »

Just a quick note: new version of Notecase Pro now includes the feature to preserve source URL when pasting the HTML (unfortunately the clipboard format that allows this is used only on Windows).

Additionally, new version implementes Tag Cloud-like view to enable advanced visualization/manipulation of tags.

urlwolf · « **Reply #42 on:** September 09, 2009, 06:02 AM »

does this mean you tried to implement this in Linux and Mac versions, and it's impossible?

adriatic · « **Reply #43 on:** September 09, 2009, 09:03 AM »

It is quite possible to support this format on all operating systems.
It is just that this special clipboard format, named "HTML Format" is only used on Windows.
This format stores both HTML and the URL where the HTML comes from.

On Linux, this format, due being Windows stnadard, is not used.
Linux program use "text/html" format, but this one does not carry the required URL info.

For example, Firefox on Windows puts its clipboard content in both "text/html" and "HTML Format" formats at the same time (and some others like plain text formats), but Firefox for Linux only uses "text/html" (and the plain text).

Unless the allpications put this URI data on clipboard, the program that is being pasted into can not know the URL. I hope this info helps.

tinjaw · « **Reply #44 on:** September 09, 2009, 10:46 AM »

It can be done on linux, but it would take a lot of work.

You would have to query the browser and grab the info.

However, I think the best route would be to use an extension to the browser to grab the requested info and format it properly for use in Notecase.

adriatic · « **Reply #45 on:** September 10, 2009, 05:54 AM »

Not sure it is possible to query a browser like you suggest. I need to be able support any HTML source, not just browsers. That's why I can only look at the clipboard.

But the idea with browser add-in is nice. I already have it in my plans, I'll probably support only Firefox for a start.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #46 on:** September 12, 2009, 09:59 AM »

Is this really the best situation from a user perspective side? Wouldn't it be better to innovate a user interface that beats this issue?

For example Latex isn't exactly Word but it does some things better than it and that's why if Lyx were to be improved, it could easy innovate something special.

I think some basic ideas like drop down briefcase but instead of choosing HTML or plain text, have it pop-up a forrmatting box could bypass the frustration somewhat.

...or how about a formatting suggestion generator for the text which you can quickly choose or dispose of?

adriatic · « **Reply #47 on:** September 14, 2009, 01:25 AM »

Not sure how the clipboard format picking window will solve the issue with wanting to know the source URL,
because the source applications on Linux do not publish this info to the clipboard.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #48 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:47 AM »

Oh my bad. I thought the topic was about retaining the formatting of text when copying.

For those situations, I simply use clipboard managers. It has never particularly bothered me because even on Windows such apps like The Form Letter Machine and Notepad don't exactly allow for the source url either so I tend to copy it separately.

urlwolf · « **Reply #49 on:** September 14, 2009, 04:01 AM »

Forgot to say that it's interesting to keep both the formatting and the url.
If Linux, by design, doesn't keep the formatting (I'm surprised; I've seen apps doing this, I think TuxNotes does), then we are in big trouble.