OWNING "hacker tools" illegal in Germany as of TODAY (jail & fines for everyone)

[iphigenie]

British law has the magnificent-sounding charge of "Going equipping to steal."

From http://cps.gov.uk/le...tion8/chapter_a.html

-JennyB (July 07, 2007, 10:45 AM)

Is it true that in britain a guy coming into your house is not doing anything illegal unless he broke something to get in? And even if he is holding things that are yours, nothing is illegal until he tries to leave with them?

[nudone]

i live in the UK and that sounds about right - or, at least, it doesn't really surprise me. but then that sounds like a clear definition of the law - afterall, it wouldn't be fair to have a law that you could merely accuse someone of being a burglar because they were standing in your house - it would be open to abuse.

(my comment above may be a perfect example of how i have been brainwashed into thinking that the law is unquestionable - i honestly don't know anymore.)

[JennyB]

British law has the magnificent-sounding charge of "Going equipping to steal."

From http://cps.gov.uk/le...tion8/chapter_a.html

-JennyB (July 07, 2007, 10:45 AM)

Is it true that in britain a guy coming into your house is not doing anything illegal unless he broke something to get in? And even if he is holding things that are yours, nothing is illegal until he tries to leave with them?

-iphigenie (July 10, 2007, 10:03 AM)

I am not a lawyer, but it seems from the source I cited that so long as there is evidence of intent (say, he's unplugged your computer) he could be charged with burglary even  though nothing has left the property, since burglary is entry with intent to steal. It doesn't have to be forced entry -even trying to hooksomething through an open window could be burglary.

If he's actually in your house without your consent, but he's just 'admiring.'

Being found on enclosed premises - section 4 Vagrancy Act 1824 (Archbold 31-123) is a summary only offence and carries a maximum sentence of 3 months imprisonment and/or a level 3 fine. This charge will be appropriate for an accused against whom there is insufficient evidence of burglary or attempt burglary, but who is found within an enclosed area for an unlawful purpose.

I hope that helps.

[Carol Haynes]

I'd guess in the UK that if a person is somewhere they shouldn't be - but not in the process of doing something illegal (such as removing property) then it would come under the law of trespass - which is a civil offense, not criminal.

The property owner has the right to request a trespasser to leave by the shortest route - and only if they refuse does it become a matter for the police (aggravated trespass) at which point 'reasonable force' can be used to remove them.

A prosecution can only be brought for trespass if the trespasser actually causes criminal damage to property.

All the signs you see "Trespassers will be prosecuted" are simply not true and if a prosecution was attempted it would fail.

I think if someone is caught somewhere with tools or weapons the presumption of innoncent trespass is lost.

Sorry - I'm half asleep (at 2am UK time) and just realised that all of this is extremely boring - so I'll shut up and go to bed!

[IQLover]

German government just passed a law today that makes OWNING any such "hacker tool" which aim is to "commit a crime" illegal.
I just can't take it anymore.

Read up here to get a feeling how "being German" is getting worse and worse by the minute:

[...]
If you own any hacker tool which "aim is to commit a crime"...

    * nmap
    * metasploit
    * any penetration testing tool in general
    * port scanners
    * network analyzers? (hopefully not those too)

... you're signing up for one year in jail or a hefty fine.
That reads OWNING, not using, it's just OWNING.
[...]

Long version here:
http://nrrd.de/dasbuch/hadez/now_theyve_done_it_just_owning_hacker_tools_illegal_germany

Please speard the word and DIGG IT http://digg.com/poli...rmany_jail_time_fine
It's no fun anymore. We're getting screwed big time.

-gjehle (July 06, 2007, 08:28 AM)

Does this new Law affect Austria, too? 

[gjehle]

Does this new Law affect Austria, too? 

-IQLover (July 11, 2007, 03:10 PM)

i don't see why
it's a german law.
last time you had to have worries like that was in the 1930's and 40's ;-)
but hey! if it keeps going like that...
... maybe we'll get v2.0 of that too....