Author Topic: "XPLinux" Running Windows XP and Kubuntu on one joint desktop (Read 69969 times)

rssapphire · « **on:** June 19, 2007, 05:48 PM »

I've decided not to upgrade to Vista. I would need a new computer and really have no need for one, other than to run Vista. I have, however, upgraded to 1 gig of RAM recently and this has finally allowed me to run Windows and Linux together on one desktop -- all the time. With only 768K to was too painful to run all the time. I call this joint desktop "XPLinux" and it is fairly powerful -- and very slick.

It's all running on an older Compaq with 2.5ghz P4 cpu, 1 gig of RAM, and a 64 meg GeForce 4 video card. I'm running Windows XP SP2 heavily modified with third party desktop enhancements and I'm running Linux (Kubuntu Feisty Fawn) in a VMWare virtual machine (set to have only 384 megs of RAM). I am runing an X-server on Windows (Xming) with allows me to display linux programs running in the VM on my Windows desktop where they look and mostly act like native windows programs. To do this, I use plink (from PuTTY) to connect to the VMWare virtual machine over my home network and display Linux programs on the XMing X-Server I have running on Windows. I run the KDE Kicker panel which lets me start any other Linux program I want to run.

Here's a basic picture of my desktop displaying the Windows start menu and the KDE menu from Kicker. (Note: clicking on the screenshots will take you to a full-sized version)

"XPLinux" Running Windows XP and Kubuntu on one joint desktop

You may think it looks a lot like Vista with the transparent taskbar and window borders. This is because I am running Windowblinds 5.5 with a transparent theme. It looks spiffy and runs without all the overhead and high end graphics card Vista requires. The tiny icons on the right side of the screen are a Windows Powerpro bar. Clicking on an icon starts a program or brings up a menu. Right clicking on most starts a different program. Middle-clicking on some starts yet a different program. Windows Powerpro is a freeware program I can't live without. The Events list at the top right is from Rainlendar, a freeware calander program. The tiny text at the bottom right above the system tray is another Windows PowerPro bar. While the start menu is displaying for this screen shot, I don't use it much. the start button isn't even on the task bar. Instead of use True Launch Bar (there an almost as powerful freeware version called Free Launch Bar).

The next screenshot shows a few Windows and Linux programs running.

"XPLinux" Running Windows XP and Kubuntu on one joint desktop

At the top left, the Linux Konsole program is running a terminal session on the VM. Next is Krusader, a "Norton Commander" style Linux file manager displaying a directory from my real D drive (my data drive shared with Feisty via VMWare Tools) on the left and my home directory on the Linux VM's virtual drive on the right. XYWrite4 is an ancient DOS program running in a modern windowed mode thanks the wonderful shareware program TameDOS which not only displays DOS programs in a modern Window (instead of the limited "dosbox" provided by Microsoft) but prevents them from hogging 100% of the cpu as most DOS program want to do under Windows. Finally, the Windows Task Manager proves this really in Windows XP and shows there is still a lot of memory available. (Note that I have VMWare set up to share memory instead of its default "hog the memory" setting.)

The final screenshot shows a few different programs running:

"XPLinux" Running Windows XP and Kubuntu on one joint desktop

At the top, the new object-oriented command shell, Windows PowerShell running in a Console box. Console is for Windows what Konsole is for KDE on Linux. The large window is KDE's browser (Linux), Konqueror, displaying the Donationcoder forum. Finally, the Konsole window is displaying a Linux terminal running the TinyFugue MU* client connected to LambdaMOO.

As you can see, my setup looks nice and lets me run both Windows XP and Linux programs at the same time. The X-forwarding via PuTTY is a bit slow for running graphics programs -- but Windows has the best graphics programs around, so this is not a major loss. Other Linux programs display more than fast enough for regular use. I have the best of both Windows and Linux worlds and they all work together almost seemlessly -- even my Windows clipboard manager (Clipmate) and hotkey manager (AutoHotKey) work in most Linux programs just as well as they do in most Windows programs.

If you are interested in Linux, but need the access to Windows software. An "XPLinux" set up like this will allow you to have the best of both XP and Linux together on one machine. As you can see you can get a powerful, nice-looking "XPLinux" system without upgrading an old system nearly as much as you'd have to do to get it to run Vista's DRM well.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2007, 06:02 PM »

I must say that's pretty amazing!!

I've bought 1gb of ram recently, to be able to run a linux virtual machine under windows (and also because 512mb just wasn't cutting it), but that is even better!

I definitelly will look into what you're doing!

Just one doubt: isn't it possible to use the loopback link? (127.0.0.1)
I own a wireless network, thus using it to connect to the linux box might make things a bit too slow for me

f0dder · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2007, 06:22 PM »

Why go through SSH encryption when you're only using one physical machine, though? That shouldn't really be necessary

A few years back, I found it was faster (well, smoother) to use X-Win32 across a 100mbit lan, than run X11 directly on my linux box, even though there was some (supposedly, heh) accelerated driver for the voodoo3 card in the box. That was two physical machines and no SSH encryption, though, and X-Win32 is commercial.

jgpaiva: 127.0.0.1 won't work since the linux machine is emulated, but vmware has some virtual adapters, so the traffic won't go across your wlan.

rssapphire · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2007, 06:41 PM »

Just one doubt: isn't it possible to use the loopback link? (127.0.0.1)
I own a wireless network, thus using it to connect to the linux box might make things a bit too slow for me
-jgpaiva (June 19, 2007, 06:02 PM)

You can avoid the LAN traffic. Loopback will not work, but VMWare has "Host" network adapters that just pretend to be a network on a single machine (no actual traffic across your network). Back when I was using VMWare Workstation 5.5, I have a host adapter set up for the X-forwarding and a regular bridged adapter for the VM's internet connection. However, when I upgraded to 6, the host adapter in my old Dapper Drake setup stopped working and I did not have time to figure out why. As my home network is wired, it doesn't matter much.

BTW, VMWare's free Server works just fine as well. No need for the paid Workstation unless you just happen to have a license for work as I do.

Darwin · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:51 AM »

Holy crap! This looks interesting - best of both worlds. I had to check the calendar to make double sure that it's not April 1st! Anway, will need time to read more carefully the OP and think about possibly implementing this on my own machine - COOL (but, is it necessary...).

PS Have Windowblinds 5.5 as well but don't have it insalled at the moment - I wax and wane on whether or not I need the eye candy when balanced against the impact on my system. However, the last time I had it installed I was running A LOT of resource hungry apps from startup - am not doing that anymore, perhaps it's time to give WB another whirl (it's been three or four months, so I'm "due").

argv · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2007, 11:39 AM »

Hey, what skin is that? I like it

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2007, 12:49 PM »

Looks like a really interesting setup.

Could you help the ignorant among us and tell us how you set up running Linux and Windows on the same desktop.

nudone · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2007, 02:08 PM »

Looks like a really interesting setup.

Could you help the ignorant among us and tell us how you set up running Linux and Windows on the same desktop.
-Carol Haynes (July 10, 2007, 12:49 PM)

i'd appreciate a step-by-step also.

zridling · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:50 AM »

Many distros will recognize and provide step-by-step setup options during install. The two main things are to let Windows be the first OS on your system (because if it's not, Microsoft will erase Linux's Grand Unified Bootloader file every time [GRUB]) and learn how to restore the GRUB file (it's really easy) when Windows deletes it anyway. The best guide I've come across — with screenshots — is by APCmag:

The definitive dual-booting guide: Linux, Vista, and XP step-by-step

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:17 AM »

Thanks for those links Zaine, but I am more interested in how to run Linux and Windows concurrently on the same desktop.

I know how to set up a dual booting system (I have done it many times before) but it isn't an option for me in this case as I can't get Linux in native mode to behave with my WiFi hardware.

rssapphire · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:41 AM »

Hey, what skin is that? I like it
-argv (July 10, 2007, 11:39 AM)

It's the Ecliz_Deluxe_Tranz scheme of the Ecliz_Deluxe2 skin for Windowblinds.

argv · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:47 AM »

Thanks for those links Zaine, but I am more interested in how to run Linux and Windows concurrently on the same desktop.

I know how to set up a dual booting system (I have done it many times before) but it isn't an option for me in this case as I can't get Linux in native mode to behave with my WiFi hardware.
-Carol Haynes (July 11, 2007, 09:17 AM)

For the wifi in linux you may want to check this link: http://ndiswrapper.s...rceforge.net/joomla/

To run Linux and Windows concurrently on the same desktop you can use vmware; I'm working into a similar environment: winxp + vmware/redhat + xming. It works well.
You must install either vmware or another virtualisation software (you might find even some opensources versions) Personally I prefer vmware because it allows me to boot the linux installed on my real harddisk. I have a dual boot, so I have the choice to boot linux either natively or using vmware. I have tested other virtualisation applications but none allows you to boot the OS installed on the real partition. You have to install Linux on a simulated disk; but I found that slows down considerably.

rssapphire · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2007, 10:05 AM »

Could you help the ignorant among us and tell us how you set up running Linux and Windows on the same desktop.
-Carol Haynes (July 10, 2007, 12:49 PM)

I'm going to assume you have VMWare Workstation (although you should be able to get this working with the freeware Player or Server as well) and that you have a wired network using a D-Link Router. With luck I will not leave out any important steps.

1) Install VMWare.

2) Download the ISO for the Ubuntu variant you want to install. I used Kubuntu.

3) Create a VMWare virtual machine (I gave mine 384K of RAM and a 20 gig drive -- you don't want to go much smaller on the RAM, at least until after installing Linux) with the Ubuntu ISO mounted as the CD-ROM. I used bridged networking to give the VM its own IP address on my home LAN.

4) Boot The VM and install Ubuntu.

5) Activate sshd in the new Ubuntu install. Be sure it is set up to forward X.

6) Using your router, assign a static address to the VM -- I just permanently assign the IP the router initially gave it. (If you don't have a D-Link router, this step can be much more complex.) Reboot you VM and be sure Linux is using the assigned static IP. For these notes I'll assume 192.168.0.102

7) Optional: Create a new account in the Linux VM to use when you log in from windows. For these notes, I'll use "xplinux" for the username and "badpass" for the password. Log in to this account at least once from the VM before using it so it is completely set up.

8) Install Xming on your XP (the font package too) and be sure it is running. I start mine with these switches:

:0 -dpi 85 -ac -clipboard -c -multiwindow -reset -terminate -unixkill -logfile Xming.log

9) Install PuTTY on your Windows machine.

10) Use plink.exe from the command line (or run box) to connect to your running VM:

C:\Program Files\PuTTY\plink.exe -ssh -X -C -pw badpass [email protected] kicker

This will run the "Kicker" bar and it should appear (probably over or under your windows taskbar)

zridling · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2007, 10:32 AM »

Ah, thanks for the correction, Carol. Yea, VMware is the way to go if possible. Version 6 works great.

Laughing Man · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:23 PM »

Ooh.. nice. I may try this sometmie! Though I do like Compiz Fusion alot and I doubt it would work this way. Although it's alot of special effects, there are some things that do help me with usability for some odd reason. Well that and Dr. Watson seems to like to torment me randomly on Windows XP. >.<

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:33 PM »

VMware is the way to go if possible. Version 6 works great.
-zridling (July 11, 2007, 10:32 AM)

Is there much advantage upgrading from VMWare Workstation version 5.5 to version 6?

Lashiec · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:44 PM »

Judge by yourself

argv · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2007, 12:46 PM »

Is there much advantage upgrading from VMWare Workstation version 5.5 to version 6?
-Carol Haynes (July 11, 2007, 12:33 PM)

I don't think so, but depends of your needs. I'm using vmware since its version 3; today I'm using 5.5 but for my needs even version 3 was fine.

rssapphire · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2007, 01:49 PM »

Ooh.. nice. I may try this sometmie! Though I do like Compiz Fusion alot and I doubt it would work this way.
-Laughing Man (July 11, 2007, 12:23 PM)

You're right. It won't work -- at least not on my setup. I'm not sure it work would with any form of X-forwarding unless Compiz Fusion was running on the client system as the forwarded windows are displayed by the client's X-server.

f0dder · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2007, 06:41 PM »

10) Use plink.exe from the command line (or run box) to connect to your running VM:

C:\Program Files\PuTTY\plink.exe -ssh -X -C -pw badpass [email protected] kicker
-rssapphire (July 11, 2007, 10:05 AM)

Why bother with SSH encryption when you're running the X server on the same machine as the VMware guest, though? Why not just connect directly?

VMWare6 sounds like a lot of possibilities for "getting out of the box", if it hasn't been very carefully coded... but sounds interesting as well.

Something that looks very interesting is parallels coherence...

xbeta · « **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2007, 09:56 PM »

I translated some of this post into Chinese.
see http://blog.sina.com...n/u/46dac66f01000aow

vixay · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2007, 11:45 PM »

Why not use a dual screen setup? With Linux on one and WinXP on the other? That way you'd literally have two OS's on a the same time

.
Another interesting setup would be to have th LiveCDS boot in windows itself, so you can have risk-free linux when you want.... and if on flash drive then you can save data too...

rssapphire · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:41 AM »

Why bother with SSH encryption when you're running the X server on the same machine as the VMware guest, though? Why not just connect directly?
-f0dder (July 11, 2007, 06:41 PM)

This works for all programs on my system and connecting directly did not work with some Gnome/GTK programs. I'd just get a window full of gray. Someday when I have time I'll try to see what the problem is. However, I really did not notice much speed difference between a SSH connection and connecting directly -- which sort of amazed me.

Something that looks very interesting is parallels coherence...

It seems to only work for Macs running Windows in a VM -- but even I ever get a Mac, you can bet I will be giving Parallels a hard look.

rssapphire · « **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2007, 11:47 AM »

Why not use a dual screen setup? With Linux on one and WinXP on the other?
-vixay (July 11, 2007, 11:45 PM)

Lack of space for a second monitor, unfortunately.

Another interesting setup would be to have th LiveCDS boot in windows itself, so you can have risk-free linux when you want.... and if on flash drive then you can save data too...

You can't use Windows and Linux programs at the same time that way. However, that's a great way to try Linux and I always keep a Linux LiveCD on hand for trying to repair borked Windows setups -- or least getting all the new since my last backup data off the drive if only a complete reinstall will repair Windows.

vixay · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2007, 07:30 AM »

Summary for quick review, understanding & implementation: (your post is hard to scan quickly for info)

Get a PC (with >1 GB RAM)
Install Windows XP SP2 (Vista untested)
Install VMWare (workstation or server)
Install Ubuntu/Your flavor of unix in VMWare
Setup VMWare networking correctly (How?)
Install X-server for windows (xming)
Setup your win X-server to use VM ubuntu (How?) (this is the innovative part!)
Install KDE Kicker? to launch apps from windows

Pros:

Use Unix apps from native unix environment in Windows
Use unix & win apps simultaenously
Experiment with linux, risk free! (can reset VM)

Cons:

Not as fast as dual booting (but then lacks running both OS program simultaenously
Overhead of running VM

Alternatives:

Cygwin
Dual-booting with different partitions/hdds
Wubi for easy dual booting setup

So is that all correct? Any better ideas? or want to flesh it out more... to make it like a guide...

Optional Goodies:

Windowblinds
powerpro
true launchbar

Anyway after reading your post i revisited powerpro & tlb...
didn't see anything very useful with TLB... maybe i just don't know how to use it or how it is better than the default quick launch

as for powerpro, it interferes with stroke it... and it's cumbersome and complicated to use... i am sure it's great once setup correctly, but setting it up correctly takes ages!

Feel free to take this post, expand on it and put it in the 1st post

Also i had a question about your setup then.... where do you install the applications you want to use? in the VM or windows? and what is the real benefit? can you work on a project (the same files) using both unix and win then ? (cygwin can)
So far the real benefit I see is that you get a VM HOSTED OS rather than an EMULATED LINUX (cygwin).