Author Topic: Maze Craze - Fun 2D game by Wreckedcarzz (Read 86266 times)

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:24 PM »

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mouser · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2007, 08:31 PM »

getting better but the control is still screwy!!!!
clicking up shouldnt stop your horizontal momentum.
wreckedcarzz you are going to kick yourself when you finallly take the time to go find some article on how to use acceleration and velocity, it's just so simple and natural and it will make a big difference for your game.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #27 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:25 PM »

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wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #28 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:44 PM »

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mouser · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2007, 11:55 PM »

It's getting really good.. but for the love of god add better gravity and acceleration control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See those posts i made about the other game (ball revamped) that i really am a big fan of for examples.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #30 on:** March 29, 2007, 10:24 PM »

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mouser · « **Reply #31 on:** March 29, 2007, 10:53 PM »

i'm not 100% sure why this thread isn't getting more attention.. i think once you get the movement/gravity/acceleration down nicely there is sure to be an audience for this. i wouldn't worry about program size. i'm going to hold off voting until i try the next gravity thing or at least get some more info on what this new mode compared to previous mode so i know what im choosing between, because im not sure what you mean by the more fun/easier mode.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #32 on:** March 30, 2007, 12:59 AM »

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mouser · « **Reply #33 on:** March 30, 2007, 07:11 AM »

oh so the new gentle mode is different because you dont lose health when you hit the blocks, is that right?

Deozaan · « **Reply #34 on:** March 30, 2007, 11:01 AM »

Mouser: The reason the controls are wonky is because of the way Game Maker works. It's so "user friendly" that it doesn't easily (for a beginner/without going into advanced mode) provide a way to change the object's movement direction without stopping the other direction. As you say, getting the physics and gravity working properly wouldn't be too hard if you were typing in regular code, but the way Game Maker organizes everything, it tries to simplify it to the point where it makes simple things (for somewhat experienced programmers) kind of difficult to do without going into advanced mode.

Wreckedcarzz: My opinion on the game is that with the current control system you should get rid of gravity completely. Once you get a more natural movement working then gravity can come back in. I think that what mouser means by acceleration is that when you press a direction, the ball doesn't immediately start moving at a speed of 10, but increases its speed in the direction you're pushing by a smaller amount as long as the button is being pushed until it reaches a max speed. This would be something like speed += 2 (or speed = speed+2). I just opened up Game Maker and took a look at it and what you need to do for proper acceleration is click the little "Relative" box when changing the speed. That will make it whatever it is plus the number you set.

And also what I think mouser means by not having the horizontal movement affect the vertical movement is that when you are moving to the right and you press up, you go straight up and are no longer moving to the right. More natural movement would allow the ball to keep going to the right while also starting to accelerate upwards. Unfortunately, I don't know if that is possible using the little Game Maker blocks for changing movement. You might need to put in some custom code--which you can actually do in Simple Mode (I think).

Anyway, I think that it might be useful to have a couple of tutorial levels that explain what the objects do in the game rather than just linking to the help file, which most people will not read.

Keep working on it.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2007, 09:34 AM »

I think that what mouser means by acceleration is that when you press a direction, the ball doesn't immediately start moving at a speed of 10, but increases its speed in the direction you're pushing by a smaller amount as long as the button is being pushed until it reaches a max speed. This would be something like speed += 2 (or speed = speed+2). I just opened up Game Maker and took a look at it and what you need to do for proper acceleration is click the little "Relative" box when changing the speed. That will make it whatever it is plus the number you set.
-Deozaan (March 30, 2007, 11:01 AM)

That is what I tried the 1st time was to have "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go 3 speed up" and that was followed by several "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go speed Relative 1 up" However it practically shot up to the speed (I don't recall what it was) instantly. I am thinking of trying the snooze timer but I am not sure how that would work (read the Help...wasn't much Help). I will fiddle with it now so I can remember everything (I have bad short term memory) and try to get it working right once and for all.

Mouser: The reason the controls are wonky is because of the way Game Maker works. It's so "user friendly" that it doesn't easily (for a beginner/without going into advanced mode) provide a way to change the object's movement direction without stopping the other direction. As you say, getting the physics and gravity working properly wouldn't be too hard if you were typing in regular code, but the way Game Maker organizes everything, it tries to simplify it to the point where it makes simple things (for somewhat experienced programmers) kind of difficult to do without going into advanced mode.
-Deozaan (March 30, 2007, 11:01 AM)

Yea, that is the problem I am running into. With simple mode (the one I use and am comfortable with) it uses a set of menus, tabs and icons to help you and simplify the process. I have only used Advanced mode once, and it isn't real difficult to use but I would just have to make sure not to hit the wrong thing and have to start over again. It still uses buttons and tabs, but has Scripting, Timeline Font and Path creation tools that I am not familiar with and I am not exactly ready to jump into. I will give it a shot but no promises for now.
-Wreckedcarzz

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2007, 10:30 AM »

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Deozaan · « **Reply #37 on:** April 02, 2007, 02:20 PM »

That is what I tried the 1st time was to have "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go 3 speed up" and that was followed by several "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go speed Relative 1 up" However it practically shot up to the speed (I don't recall what it was) instantly. I am thinking of trying the snooze timer but I am not sure how that would work (read the Help...wasn't much Help). I will fiddle with it now so I can remember everything (I have bad short term memory) and try to get it working right once and for all.

-Wreckedcarzz
-wreckedcarzz (March 31, 2007, 09:34 AM)

There is a tab thingy you can drag in there that will execute a piece of code (I think) which might make it easier to do this acceleration thingy. If you'd like, you can send me your source and I'll take a look to see if I can get the movement more like what Mouser is describing.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #38 on:** April 02, 2007, 06:38 PM »

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Deozaan · « **Reply #39 on:** April 02, 2007, 06:45 PM »

That is what I tried the 1st time was to have "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go 3 speed up" and that was followed by several "When action <UP key is pressed> then object player 1 will go speed Relative 1 up" However it practically shot up to the speed (I don't recall what it was) instantly. I am thinking of trying the snooze timer but I am not sure how that would work (read the Help...wasn't much Help). I will fiddle with it now so I can remember everything (I have bad short term memory) and try to get it working right once and for all.
-wreckedcarzz (March 31, 2007, 09:34 AM)

This method for acceleration doesn't sound like what you want. You should simply be able to say something like (in pseudo-code):

[Select]

if (UP is pressed) { xspeed -= 3; }
playerX += xspeed;

There is a flaw in this simple example because eventually the player could be moving so fast you couldn't control him, so you can add a check:

[Select]

if (KeyUP is pressed && xspeed >= -15) { xspeed -= 3; }
playerX += xspeed;

This will make it so that if the xspeed is lower than -15 (going up at a speed faster than 15) it will not accelerate any more.

I know I had some method of acceleration working as I'm describing here when I played around with making a Game Maker game sometime last year, so I know it's possible.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #40 on:** April 02, 2007, 08:51 PM »

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Deozaan · « **Reply #41 on:** April 03, 2007, 12:57 PM »

I just re-browsed the GM Forums and couldn't find the darn topic but I think the code I used originally had an error in it. I will keep looking.
-wreckedcarzz (April 02, 2007, 08:51 PM)

I would be glad to take a look at your source and help you out. Send me a PM if you're interested.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #42 on:** April 05, 2007, 05:28 PM »

Hello everyone!
(Quick Note: This new Maze Craze version is now 2.0 Beta 3 because of a large number of vast improvements over the last version)

OK, I am EXTREMELY happy to announce that the ACCELERATION and SMOOTH BALL MOVEMENT features that were requested are NOW WORKING! This was made possible only by Deozaan who volunteered his time to fix the issue. I did nothing with the acceleration (as far as getting it working correctly) and I give him 100% credit! OK, for those of you interested in trying the new version, here are the new features (download at bottom, as always!):

(Also please note that the Main Menu background has NOT been updated- it will be in the next release)
Working acceleration
Working ball physics
Corrected data for the Player
New tutorial (not complete!!!)
All PRIMARY levels are in 800x600 resolution (if this is a problem I can make a special version for those of you running old OSs/old graphics cards)
Fixed the speed of acceleration (was too fast I felt - now slowed down)
Increased the size of levels (object width apart from each other) for easier navigation while getting used to the new ball movement
Updated help file
New Button to detonate mines
Updated Main Menu
New mode semi-functioning
Load option at main menu (may or may not work - please post and tell me if you even use the save/load options)
Updated/fixed level 16
Buttons in 2 player mode will now delete
2 Player level select screen fixed
Disabled the Report A Bug option in the Help area (will not work as of current)

Download: Go down for new version

mouser · « **Reply #43 on:** April 05, 2007, 05:51 PM »

now it's getting interesting.

movement is much more fluid now -- excellent.

however i think you might be doing something slightly wrong with the limits of acceleration and velocity..
the ball never gets going too fast downware, BUT it soon become almost impossible to counteract the acceleration downward and tapping up seems to have almost no effect at that point.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #44 on:** April 05, 2007, 05:57 PM »

Yes, I am playing through it right now and am noticing that also. ~~Maybe a change of the gravity?~~
I lightened the gravity a bit and it now slows it down, but not enough to stop/reverse back up. I just also tried to make it when you hit the spacebar, it gradually slows down instead of instantly halting, but I forgot about the new variables and it didn't work. I will keep trying a couple ideas.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #45 on:** April 07, 2007, 02:33 AM »

OK,
a small update this time, simply addressing the gravity/acceleration a bit, as well as FINALLY FIXING THE LOADING SYSTEM!!! Use the LOAD folder in the Main Menu to load your progress (the game automatically saves for you)!
Hope you all enjoy this new update, and hope it works better then the last.
Comments/suggestions/etc are welcome and requested as always!
-Brandon
---Edit: Updated it again one last time.---

mouser · « **Reply #46 on:** April 07, 2007, 02:38 AM »

come on guys.. the control is still barely usable.. as soon as the ball drops too much it cant be raised up.

control is super important, you have to work on it and get it right.
the user should be able to control the ball fairly precisely, a single tap left,right,up,down should barely alter the momentum, but lots of taps need to be able to recover from even the sharpest of falls. you have to get this right for the game to be playable.

does anyone bother to go back and play those "ball revamped" flash games i posted? theres an example of how the control should be.

mouser · « **Reply #47 on:** April 07, 2007, 02:43 AM »

can i also suggest that the ball start on a little ledge or something so you can skip the tutorials more easily without it dropping right onto one of the tutorials.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #48 on:** April 07, 2007, 02:46 AM »

I did in fact look at them, hence the new game mode. However I am working to get the spacebar to gradually slow the ball down, so that the ball doesn't go insane and fly down and it feels better. I am aware that it is annoying to have the ball above the tutorial, however that is the idea because new players don't know how to play, so the ball falls onto the tutorial where they then learn how to control the ball.

Deozaan · « **Reply #49 on:** April 07, 2007, 03:06 AM »

Mouser is right. This game isn't very fun without manageable control over the ball. I think your highest priority needs to be to fix the control. Once you've got that, the rest is gravy.

Or something. . .

And just something for you to think about: When you're programming a game and allow people to beta test it, and they tell you something like "I hate it when the ball falls onto the Tutorial mode before I have a chance to move." Don't just say it's supposed to be that way. I understand that it was made that way intentionally. But by doing that intentionally you've unintentionally made all your players inconvenienced.

Don't ask for people's opinions and then don't take it. When someone tells you (especially as nicely as mouser did) about something that might be improved upon, you need to assess your original idea with the feedback you've received. You may just need to change your idea because what makes sense to you as a programmer doesn't make sense to other people as players. Yes it's true that people will complain about anything and everything. So that's why you need to think about it and determine if you really should make that change or not. Don't just dismiss it because you designed it that way on purpose. When you have new information, you need to take your old decisions and come to a conclusion of whether or not your old decisions need to be updated because of the new information. This goes for all aspects of life, not just programming.

We're here to be helpful. We see potential in you and are trying to help improve your game and your abilities as a programmer. This is constructive criticism. It isn't meant to make you feel defensive in any way. Take the insight of others and learn from it. Judge for yourself whether what we say makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, don't take the advice. But don't just dismiss it right away without really considering it first.

Focus on the controls and the player's experience. If it's not fun to play, it doesn't matter how cool it is, people won't like it.

Poll

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Author Topic: Maze Craze - Fun 2D game by Wreckedcarzz (Read 86266 times)