some surprises

[mouser]

i've got some real fun features in store for you guys with the next beta... i hope you'll be happily surprised.
virtual folders and ability to make your own virtual folders (see your favorites, recent clips, etc).

recursive note lists (something i've been wanting for a long time in other notes programs).

complete backup and restore system to insure you don't lost anything.

i'll definitely have a beta available by monday.

there's still quite a lot of work to do - i've spent so much time getting the infrastructure working right; been kinda painful actually.  but i hope the results are worth it.

[mouser]

what i could really use though is some examples of innovative features that you guys/gals like in other notes programs.

[kfitting]

You creating a notes program?   Heh, heh!

I have some suggestions I just thought about for the clipboard aspect. 

- Combining clips into one big clip.  Most useful for copying large multipage articles from the internet. 
- Being able to strip pics and such from the above mentioned clips.

Just thought about those today when I went to copy an article.  Cant wait for Monday!

Kevin

[mouser]

combine clips - good idea.

yes, this is going to be a full notes tool - it's too late to turn back now.

strip pictures and stuff - definitely.
i havent gotten to capturing multimedia (pics, rtf) yet - i've been working, believe it or not, steadily every day on this, and it's been all about the database and core functionality so far.

[kfitting]

yes, this is going to be a full notes tool - it's too late to turn back now.

Nice, Nice!  With that decided I would say a name change and advertising info change is in order. 

My only concern with going full notes editor is that I dont need a notes program but I really like the extended clipboard functionality.  Will there be a way to use <Newly named Program> in this role without hogging resources?  On the flipside, some people may want to use it as a notes program and not as a clipboard tool... how will that be handled?  Will there be more of a stand alone program role?

I heartily agree that the direction you are going with it seriously blurs the lines between the two and I dont think it's a stretch... I just like Keynote!     But, since you are going that route, you may want to head to some notes manager forums and see what people are asking for.  Just keep in mind that you have opened yourself up to a "word processor" expectation!

One question I just thought of: with the switch to a more notes program paradigm are you still going to have the windows spell checking object?  If you are could you give a little more info on that, especially regarding what other programs you can check spelling in.

Kevin

[mouser]

there are a *lot* of notes programs, and i usually try to avoid writing programs when there are already good freeware tools available.. but in this case, since i use a notes program so much myself, i could not resist making a custom one.

i hope that we can figure out some unique directions to go in to make it different from other tools like keynote.  there are some unique features that it has that i have wanted in a notes function and this will be an opportunity for us to try those.

i say we keep the clipboard focus - and make this the best clipboard tool out there, perhaps short only of clipmate in terms of functionality.

so i say we make the spelling functions high priority.

the one price to pay for this, as you suggested, is resource use / exe size.
i'm afraid this is going to be a big program.  cpu use will not be high, but the exe size will be fairly high (4-8mb).  for people who hate programs above a couple hundred k, this program is not going to be for you.  i've long stopped worrying so much about memory use now that machines have so much memory - i feel like i paid for my memory i want it used

so those looking for a tiny lightweight clipboard tool are going to want to look elsewhere.  for others, i invite you to try to help me figure out some unique stuff we can do with this tool in terms of clipboard functionality and notes management.

[kfitting]

Well, I one thing I would like (and I have a feeling it may already be implemented!) is to be able to be surfing and copying articles (multi page/single page) like mad and then be able to go back at some point and format them and put them into my Keynote file for articles.  You mentioned virtual folders before and this comes into play because I may give each article its own heading and put them into different topics, but then using a virtual folder, I can go back through date by date and format the articles. 

That is the type of thing I think would be amazing for a clipboard tool: consideration of a "copying workflow."  How to make it easy to copy (inserting some custom info as desired), then allowing me to put those clips into whatever other program I need.  When I was in school, it may have been a word processor, but Keynote or other programs are just as likely. 

The other aspect I think that could be different is trying to rethink the whole quick clip mentality (the opposite extreme).  The ability to quickly copy multiple things and then paste them immediately in whatever order is desired.  As I said before, Clipomatic is the best I've come across yet, but it still is slightly cumbersome.  If you are just trying to go back and forth between pasting two clips there are too many button clicks required.  I don't really know how to resolve this, my first inclination being hotkeys, but then you wind up with a bunch of hotkeys and trouble remembering them!  Any suggestions??

Well, sorry, I've probably rambled quite a bit.  But, I'm pretty tired after playing 2 1/2 hours of ultimate frisbee.  Soon time for bed! 

Kevin

[mouser]

i'm very interested in the idea of trying to come up with procedures for efficient clipboard workflow.

i think the one thing we are in agreement about is that it would be nice to have the program not just capture things automatically on ctrl+c copy, but have an alternate hotkey like ctrl+alt+c which would have just one intermediate step where it let you quickly name + categorize (and maybe edit) the clip before adding it to its collection.

so in other words a nice quick pop-up form where you could add some extra info to the clip at the time of capture. (we could actually trigger this on ctrl+c also, but that might be annoying).

[kfitting]

One more quick post then I'm off to bed.  I agree with what you said about being able to bring up a window.  The only thing I disagree with is allowing the user to modify the clip itself.  The way I see it, the reason you are renaming/catagorizing is so you can find it later, then edit it.  Perhaps the best compromise would be to put a button on the window for editing.  I just think the smaller the window that's brought up, the faster and more efficient things are going to be.  If the person really wants to edit on the spot, they can, but the default state is something which asks you for three or four pieces of info (already filled in automatically, you just change the ones you want) and then you're back to your previous action.

There, I'm done for the night!

Kevin

[mouser]

the pop up window will be adjustable in size to whatever size you want and remember it - you will be able to make it TINY.
i agree most of the time you will not want to modify it.

as you say it will pop up with Title, Group, Text, Icon.
they will all be set to defaults (group will be what you set last), so most of the time you can just click OK.

[AbteriX]

For the theme about collecting text

i didn't see that i need an extra window to collect different text.

How about an feature to  select a few lines in CHS | Clipboard | NEW
and choose from context menu (or an botton) to say "merge this into the first selected clip"
or bring up *than* an new window who the user could insert an topic, choose a group,
format the text and so on.

So i had not to remember an another shortcut for to collect text
or deal with an another window how appears
or must think to check an check box to collect now.

I just copy as usual and if iam finished
i open CHS, select the lines i need and merge them.

Or is this *to* simple 

[AbteriX]

About the notes tool:

what *could* be IMHO

- drag and drop the notes in the tree
- import text into auto new created notes beneath the current selected note
- feature rich search and replace in ALL notes (with regex)
- Undo / Redo
- clickable URLs
- link to other nodes
- link to documentes on the disk
- crypt the hole CHS and/or single notes
- maybe: open an URL and paste name and password ???
- of course the hole RTF features 

About "some unique directions" i must think some more.
e.g.
naybe relative links to documents and apps (for USB-Sticks)

or a little calculations in tables, just the .... a whats the english words.. i mean +, -, * and /
No static, no trigo, no nothing, just the basics to calculate a few numbers.

More ideas will be come 

[mouser]

search+replace in all notes - good point.  undo def. needed
links to other nodes and files is a good idea
encryption: yes definitely
support for some password filling so that you could use it to keep password lists i think would be nice.

[AbteriX]

Iam just think you overseen my above post "about collecting text" ?
If not overseen but just no comment.... it's ok too

[mouser]

stefan can you explain a little more what you were saying about collecting text - i've read it but i don't understand it fully.

[AbteriX]

stefan can you explain a little more what you were saying about collecting text

-mouser (August 16, 2005, 07:24 AM)

well lets see:

- first i copy the URL of a web side from my browser (in th clipboard and into CHS)
- second i copy an text from the web side
- third i copy another text
- and another
- and so on...
-

- then i open CHS
- there i choose "Clipboard" and than "New"(group)
- there i have a few new lines on the right side, each for each copy i had done

- i want to select that lines iam just had copied.
(or check an new to created check box "[ ] join" near the "[ ]Favorite" one)
I select or check all lines i want to join into an new clip.

- than i choose an command to join the contain of all selected clips
into that selected clip who is the oldest (i.e. the first, e.g. where the URL is stored.)

Only the first clip should still have the TITLE, APPNAME, DATE or what ever we had set.
From the following clips we need only the containt.
Or there should be an option to store all such META datas from all clips.


---------------------------------------------

[Select]

1.) i copy from somwehere "www.example.com"
and i got a new line in CHS "EXAMPLES - Internet Explorer ||| www.example.com"

2.) i copy text from the side "Capter 1 xyz blah"
and i got a new line in CHS "EXAMPLES - Internet Explorer ||| Capter 1 xyz blah"

3.) i copy text from an another side "Source Code: for (i,<5,++)"
and i got a new line in CHS "Source - Internet Explorer ||| Source Code: for (i,<5,++)"


4.) i go to CHS into the New group
and select the last three lines as there are

[X] Collector [ ] Join ||| "EXAMPLES - Internet Explorer ||| www.example.com"
[ ] Collector [X] Join ||| "EXAMPLES - Internet Explorer ||| Capter 1 xyz blah"
[ ] Collector [X] Join ||| "Source - Internet Explorer ||| Source Code: for (i,<5,++)"

5.) i choose an command like "JOIN"

6.) the last [b]two[/b] lines(clips) are deleted and merged with the first (oldest) clip.

to get:

"EXAMPLES - Internet Explorer
www.example.com
Capter 1 xyz blah .....
Source Code: for (i,<5,++)....

Some suggestions:
- the JOIN command could be in the context menu, in the menu or into an button.
- it should be optional to merge the META data (App name, Title, date...) too or not
- it should be optional to join into the first(oldest) or into the last(joungest)
or even in an fresh created clip
- it should be optional to delete the now unneeded clips
- it should be optional to have n-blank lines between the merged clips
or user defined lines like =======/\/\/\/\/\/\ ::::::::::::::::::::::::::----------------------
or not.

- BTW the [X] Collector check box is an another idea, i hope the function is clear

Is this not clear i try to explain an other way 

[kfitting]

We had already discussed a "copy with options" hotkey.  Why not make one of the options a join command?  Clicking the option would allow you to choose a clip to append the current clip to (with n blank or user-defined lines).  I may be misunderstanding your flow, but it seems a tad cumbersome. 

I can see having some form of your workflow in place in case people dont realize they want to combine when they copy.  Perhaps both methods would be nice?  One extra thing, it may be nice to have an option regarding sort order on join (ie, maybe you dont want the first clip to be first).  However, too many options can become unwieldy! 

Kevin

[mouser]

seems like pretty good ideas to me.

i think it makes sense to have a dialog pop up with choices for options when merging/joining, like "delete original clips" and how to separate contents with dividers like stefan says.  makes sense to me, i will add it to todo list.

and we could also add these choice to a drag+drop or right click men - so when you drag a bunch of clips to another folder (maybe only if you right drag), or if you drag clips on top of each other, it would present you with options to either move, copy, merge..i