Features?

[kfitting]

After playing around with CHS a little more I found these "features:"
- Bringing up the messagebox to tell how many characters are in a clip also adds a new clip with the window title of the messagebox, messagebox text, some dashes, and "OK."  Actually, I cant do this everytime... and trying to pop up a messagebox with the character count doesnt work for me.  It just brings up a blank messagebox.  Weird.  This may be me.
- Scrolling the clips scrollbox is weird.  My scrollwheel scrolls through individual entries, but the text box doesnt refresh until I click.  Also, scrolling with the mousewheel does not force the the scrollbar to move at all.  I scroll to the top clip in the box, but then I have to manually grab the scrollbar to move it to the next entry.
- OK button on dialog is down a tad far.


Suggestions:
- Perhaps you could allow the user to make up "Clip Groups."  You already have History and Favorites, but maybe it would be cool to be able to make one Personal Info, or Email Addresses.  I realize this may not be entirely necessary if you search, but it could still help organize clips.
- Helpfile.  There are so many options!

Overall, I'm impressed though.  With so many options it will definitely allow a wide range of applications. 

Kevin

[mouser]

scroll wheel is definitely broken - i noticed that myself.  definitely needs fixing.
i know what's causing the messagebox problem, i will fix, plus i will actually change messagebox to a nice alert box, which will solve both problems at one time.

im going to think hard about different clip groups and how to organize.  i'm not 100% happy with the current way of using a dropdown box to select between favorites and history.  seems to me that is kind of inefficient.

maybe the clipmate style 3 panel window is the way to go.. though i thought i woudl try a less cluttered solution.  clipmate is a little busy for me and my thought was to identify the 50% of features of clipmate that people use 95% of the time, and do those better and easier..

[mouser]

kfitting, just to let you know, i have decided to add full support for adding and managing a hierarchy of arbitrary clip groups.
i think i will move to a dockable/customizable user interface, so you could have a view almost identical to the one currently used, or one more like clipmate explorer.  i figure we might as well make it a useful tool for keeping notes and stuff.

i'm still looking for unique suggestions.. isn't there anything we could do that belongs in a clipboard program but that no one has thought of yet?

[kfitting]

I think the biggest problem is what you already mentioned: user interface.  Trying to cram the features into something that comes readily to hand is tough!  That's why I like Clipomatic (sorry... you'd think I got a commission!) it stays out of the way and is unobtrusive.  The problem with it is that there is no way to access more features when you want to spend a little more time.  As far as the different groups, a tree view might be the best way to go.  Since you are using a database, could you make the tree based more on filters?  Like the new search features in Longhorn, or the email in Opera M2.  You could specify a rule and all clips meeting those rules would go into the nodes that they fit. 

One caution, and I don't necessarily think you're there yet, but where is the line between clipboard extender and note software?  It's not a clear answer, but as the author you should probably decide.  If you go towards more of a note software, you'll get requests for full text editing etc.  One thing that I would really like to see is a program that helped you gather clips (HTML, RTF, text, etc) and allowed you to put them into another program easily.  That's why I mentioned RTF to HTML conversion.  If you could copy HTML, convert to RTF, then paste it into Keynote (another program [and its successor, Keynote 2] I will tirelessly promote!) in three clicks that would be awesome!  As such, CHS would not be so much a storer of notes, but an intermediary that would allow you to format your notes and easily place them into the program of your choice.  However, any program that allows you to store anything copied to the clipboard will, without a doubt, tread the gray area as a note taking software.  Where it goes depends on your vision for it.

Sorry, I may sound retardly serious, as if the fate of the universe rests on this.  It doesn't!  (thankfully... there is a higher power to take care of this)  But, I can see this program getting pulled in all sorts of directions (sort of like FindRun).  Just something to think about!  Let me say again, CHS is an awesome start... add the Paste 'n Go functionality and I will be happier than... something very happy! 

Kevin

[mouser]

what do you think about the idea of extending this tool a tiny bit to make it both clipboard helper and also hierarchical notes tool?

it seems to me that with a hierarchy of customizable "clip groups" the program essentially becomes a hierarchical notes tool with clipboard functionality.  i.e. very little needs to be added to make it at least a quick and dirty hierarchical notes tool.

thoughts?

[mouser]

i saw your post after mine, and i see we both saw the connection with note tool.
this definitely needs some thought.. i agree that getting pulled in all directions is tricky, and it would be nice to figure out a "focus" for the program to help keep it from getting out of control.

its definitely useful for me to hear about programs like clipomatic that people have strong attachments to, it helps point out what is desired.

my own person view is that i use a clipboard tool as a kind of safety mechanism and history i can search, so for me most fancy stuff is not needed, and more important is fast and easy search.

and again for a notes program, i simply could not live without one, BUT i just use it for storing plaintext, and sometimes i even find it quite annoying that it accepts rich text with formatting.  for me its much more important to have easy way to move notes, and have a simple interface that makes it trivially fast and easy to add new notes.

i think i like your idea here:

One thing that I would really like to see is a program that helped you gather clips (HTML, RTF, text, etc) and allowed you to put them into another program easily.  That's why I mentioned RTF to HTML conversion.  If you could copy HTML, convert to RTF, then paste it into Keynote (another program [and its successor, Keynote 2] I will tirelessly promote!) in three clicks that would be awesome!  As such, CHS would not be so much a storer of notes, but an intermediary that would allow you to format your notes and easily place them into the program of your choice.

[kfitting]

Well.... as I said above that is up to you.  Also as I said above, I agree that it doesn't seem a far stretch.  However, also as I said, I use Keynote, and do not plan on switching.  NOT that this could not be useful to others!  I am NOT trying to squelch the idea!  But, I would rather see an intermediary program.  One that focused more on easy capture, quick formatting, and being able to quickly call up another program (or perhaps more importantly, a file) to seamlessly paste the information where you wanted it.  Maybe you could have your cake and eat it too.  Perhaps you could have a notes software and an intermediary side by side.  I dont know!  Those are my thoughts.  

Kevin

After reading your reply:

Heh heh, people use the same tools so differently!  It's funny... it must also be hard to code for!!  As far as your comment on the notes program, if you made the conversion thing, you wouldnt have to worry about it accepting RTF... you'd just convert it!  I also agree with you about wanting to move and manipulate... but, I already have a lot of stuff stored in Keynote and I want to continue putting stuff there.  A trade off, certainly, but I think an intermediary program could make things a lot easier.  However, that's enough of my propaganda!  Find out what people really want!

[kfitting]

Sorry, I'll go to bed soon.  But the thought just occured to me... what about export?  Could you maybe export all clips (or subsets in csv or mysql or rtf or or html or xml or jpeg or <insert format here>?  Not all those formats are practical, but it may be neat at some point to export your whole history.  Maybe it wouldnt... probably wouldnt find out until it's too late!

kevin

[mouser]

export is definitely needed.
export to plain text file(s) of course.
export/import to keynote/treepad would be nice.

[kfitting]

Ahhhh, there's an idea.  If you could easily export into hierarchical notes programs (spelling is completely arbitrary) that would solve a lot of problems.  You could clip notes all day long, then sift through them and store them when you get a chance. 

I was thinking this morning and realized that if you go to a tree structure for clip types (something I agree with) you have a notes program built in whether you want it or not.  Therefore, I say go for it... especially if you add the ability to export to a full notes manager. 

Sounds awesome, thanks for the discussion.

KEvin

[mouser]

sounds like we are on the same page.