Author Topic: PSA: Woe to Thee Who Performs a Windows 10 Clean Install (Read 30890 times)

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2015, 08:16 PM »

Assuming the Epson uses a typical driver, pick the bottom option (Add a local or network printer with manual settings).
Select Create new port, and pick Standard TCP/IP port. It will probably auto configure with the most common Protocol=RAW Port=9100 options.
Then hand feed it the driver and you should be good.
-Stoic Joker (August 03, 2015, 06:53 AM)

Well, it's an all-in-one. I can choose the driver and the printer will work, but that doesn't fix the scanner or fax portion of the equation. It's okay...I have other systems in the house I can use to print if need be till Epson gets their crap together.
-Innuendo (August 04, 2015, 06:24 PM)

What's the model number?

Innuendo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2015, 09:51 PM »

Honestly I'm not even clear on what problems were unique to the clean install vs. the upgrade...
-JavaJones (August 04, 2015, 07:19 PM)

The first problem that was unique to the clean install was the fact that Windows decided to make my private LAN in my home a public network. The second was being unable to install my printer. The third was the moving user data folders through a supported Microsoft method (this isn't a hack) didn't work. I could go on, but you get my point...I might agree with you about the user data folders in a pinch, but the others are simple things any user may run into....

Innuendo · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2015, 09:57 PM »

What's the model number?
-Stoic Joker (August 04, 2015, 08:16 PM)

It's an Epson WorkForce WF-3540....but get this. I totally uninstalled all the Epson software from my system in preparation of waiting for Epson's official fix, but just a bit ago, I noticed an Epson printer monitor hanging out in the system tray. Hmmm...should not be there as every other indicator is that the Epson software should be cleansed from the system. I right-click on the icon & I see a Software Update option. I love to poke bears so I clicked it. Predictably, it told me that the software update software was not installed. Unpredictably, it then proceeded to connect to the internet, download the software, and configure the printer, scanner, and fax.

What the....? It's all there and working now, down to the skeuomorphic printer icon that looks like my printer in Printers and Devices .

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2015, 06:54 AM »

What's the model number?
-Stoic Joker (August 04, 2015, 08:16 PM)

It's an Epson WorkForce WF-3540....but get this. I totally uninstalled all the Epson software from my system in preparation of waiting for Epson's official fix, but just a bit ago, I noticed an Epson printer monitor hanging out in the system tray. Hmmm...should not be there as every other indicator is that the Epson software should be cleansed from the system. I right-click on the icon & I see a Software Update option. I love to poke bears so I clicked it. Predictably, it told me that the software update software was not installed. Unpredictably, it then proceeded to connect to the internet, download the software, and configure the printer, scanner, and fax.

What the....? It's all there and working now, down to the skeuomorphic printer icon that looks like my printer in Printers and Devices .
-Innuendo (August 04, 2015, 09:57 PM)

That's actually not as completely shocking as you might think - It also might not be Epson's fault. While XP started the auto install (and sucked at it) Windows 8.x started being really good at auto installing any print device it found on the wire all by itself...And 10 is even better at -(or worse about)- the completely uninitiated surprise device installations. Being that we're primarily a printer/MPS company there are frequently upwards of 50 print devices on the wire at any given time ... Which is why I had to stick the service department onto an isolated subnet to keep all of the transient customer printers from showing up everywhere.

Basically if the device is new enough to have/feature/announce its WSD capability...Windows will go after it all by itself.

I currently have 20 printers installed on my workstation - god damn it..

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #29 on:** August 05, 2015, 09:35 AM »

It's an entertaining story of wonk, but... isn't most (if not all) of this due to A: old hardware/software, and/or B: semi-unusual configuration changes (e.g. moving the Desktop folder)? Don't get me wrong, I get that this stuff worked in your previous setup (also a Microsoft Windows OS) so you have reason to believe it should still work (though you did seem aware that moving the user data folders has some risk/wonk to it). But as far as a general warning goes, it seems more like "If you're a power user who likes to heavily customize your OS, be gentle with Win 10 for now". Honestly I'm not even clear on what problems were unique to the clean install vs. the upgrade...

- Oshyan
-JavaJones (August 04, 2015, 07:19 PM)

Heh well part of the computing experience is supposed to be "doing something to get something done!" Whether it's moving a desktop folder, or older hardware, or older software, or something ... we're not here to get Teh Latezt Windowz just to go on Facebook!

So in some senses "go gentle" means that MS didn't do their job. For example, paraphrasing a phrase I like to use, "Microsoft spent three years and a developer channel and no one moved their desktop?! Why does DC have to be first to do stuff?!"

I can see if someone tries an *EPIC* hack, maybe. But these issues cropping up feel like MS pawning off their Gamma level testing on users. And they're even saying so! (Snooty voice) "Eau. For you VALUED Enterprise customers, you get to wait four months while the peons do our work for us."

Innuendo · « **Reply #30 on:** August 05, 2015, 12:26 PM »

So in some senses "go gentle" means that MS didn't do their job. For example, paraphrasing a phrase I like to use, "Microsoft spent three years and a developer channel and no one moved their desktop?! Why does DC have to be first to do stuff?!"
-TaoPhoenix (August 05, 2015, 09:35 AM)

Thanks for that, Tao. That's exactly what I was trying to get at. Microsoft had how many builds for how long in testing & nobody thought to right-click on the Desktop icon, select properties, and give that Location tab a proper go of it? This is a feature that's been in Windows for as long as I can remember. And it always worked. Till Now.

Innuendo · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2015, 12:29 PM »

That's actually not as completely shocking as you might think - It also might not be Epson's fault.
-Stoic Joker (August 05, 2015, 06:54 AM)

While I understand what you're saying, why didn't Win 10 come 'rescue' me all the while I was futzing with things all evening the day before? And why was that fugly 16-bit icon down in my system tray when I told all the Epson stuff to uninstall and bother me nevermore?

Oh well, I've been doing this stuff long enough that sometimes getting the win is good enough. Don't question it. Just move along. There will be another weird problem coming along shortly.

JavaJones · « **Reply #32 on:** August 05, 2015, 01:13 PM »

Gotcha, yeah that all makes sense (more so now with clarification). I can see that the clean install was not as smooth as it should have been. And certainly *features* like moving user data folders (including Desktop) should be tested and should work. I wouldn't be prepared to call it an all-out failure until others test it as it may be something unique to your configuration or some other quirk. That doesn't mean it's "OK", it still should work, I just mean that it *may* have been tested and worked fine ("Works for me!"), and still it could cause problems for you and others (but not everyone).

Anyway, I did want to do a clean install of at least two of my machines, but I'll be trying an upgrade of one as soon as it's made available to me. I'll do a full system image and then report results afterward.

- Oshyan

Innuendo · « **Reply #33 on:** August 05, 2015, 05:22 PM »

I wanted to post the solution for my "network was configured as public when the darn thing should have been configured as private problem" just in case anyone else runs into it and needs a solution....and because it was so hard for me to find!

The type of the network can changed in the registry:

HKLM\Software\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\NetworkList\Profiles\

Category:

0 = Public

1 = Private

Gleaned from here.

bit · « **Reply #34 on:** August 05, 2015, 06:59 PM »

(post moved by me)

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #35 on:** August 06, 2015, 08:18 AM »

It's not just us guys.

Starting from the Win10 Wiki, Ars Tecnica says that "it was buggier than previous versions of Windows were on-launch.".

http://arstechnica.c...-the-bugs-get-fixed/

A couple of snips:

"I'm more conflicted about Windows 10 than I have been about any previous version of Windows. In some ways, the operating system is extremely ambitious; in others, it represents a great loss of ambition. The new release tries to walk an unsteady path between being Microsoft's most progressive, forward-looking release and simultaneously appealing to Windows' most conservative users."

Innuendo · « **Reply #36 on:** August 06, 2015, 08:32 PM »

The new release tries to walk an unsteady path between being Microsoft's most progressive, forward-looking release and simultaneously appealing to Windows' most conservative users.
-TaoPhoenix (August 06, 2015, 08:18 AM)

I think this is a fair statement. I also think this is the way they had to go. They have to embrace the post-desktop PC world while still appealing to their core audience so they don't lose customers. If they went any other way they would have been criticized far more than they are being currently.

As for me, now that I have conquered the problems I've encountered during my install, Windows 10 is settling into being a very solid OS for me. The only thing that nags at me now is clicking icons on the taskbar offers no visual feedback one has clicked them as previous versions of Windows have done. It's a minor nit, but still a little weird to see.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #37 on:** August 06, 2015, 08:56 PM »

As for me, now that I have conquered the problems I've encountered during my install, Windows 10 is settling into being a very solid OS for me. The only thing that nags at me now is clicking icons on the taskbar offers no visual feedback one has clicked them as previous versions of Windows have done. It's a minor nit, but still a little weird to see.
-Innuendo (August 06, 2015, 08:32 PM)

To me even that doesn't matter! It's nits!

I am dying to get some time + solid reporting on their new push mechanism. All else pales before that in my eyes.

Oh, the first one will be either glorious or harmless.

But someone at MS learned to bring on a team to play the Long Games again.

THAT's what I'm nervous about!

Deozaan · « **Reply #38 on:** August 06, 2015, 10:24 PM »

The only thing that nags at me now is clicking icons on the taskbar offers no visual feedback one has clicked them as previous versions of Windows have done. It's a minor nit, but still a little weird to see.
-Innuendo (August 06, 2015, 08:32 PM)

No? I see the color change slightly when I click. When I click, it looks like the hover/highlight color goes away and returns.

Innuendo · « **Reply #39 on:** August 07, 2015, 07:19 AM »

No? I see the color change slightly when I click. When I click, it looks like the hover/highlight color goes away and returns.
-Deozaan (August 06, 2015, 10:24 PM)

Must be a graphic card driver issue on my side then. I only see hover/highlight color changes when a program is open and has that blue underscore line under the icon image. I'll be patient then. It'll eventually be fixed.

kyrathaba · « **Reply #40 on:** August 07, 2015, 04:13 PM »

I didn't have any tech issues deriving from my upgrade, but I have to say I'm a bit surprised at Microsoft's crudeness:

wraith808 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 07, 2015, 06:22 PM »

I... didn't get that screen. I got the screen, it was just with a different title. Was that a joke? Or did that really happen?

kyrathaba · « **Reply #42 on:** August 07, 2015, 06:51 PM »

Joke

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #43 on:** August 08, 2015, 07:58 AM »

Now ^That^ is funny.

Especially after spending the last few days staring at that exact screen...wishing it would do something interesting before I fell asleep (on site..).

Innuendo · « **Reply #44 on:** August 08, 2015, 08:58 AM »

Now ^That^ is funny. Especially after spending the last few days staring at that exact screen...wishing it would do something interesting before I fell asleep (on site..).
-Stoic Joker (August 08, 2015, 07:58 AM)

The new screen could use some improvement, but it is far, far better than the installation screens of yore where you're sitting at what looks to be a static DOS-type screen & the only indicator anything is going on a status bar line at the bottom of screen displaying text that this file got copied....all rendered in a fuzzy font that was rescued from 1983.

Innuendo · « **Reply #45 on:** August 08, 2015, 09:01 AM »

No? I see the color change slightly when I click. When I click, it looks like the hover/highlight color goes away and returns.
-Deozaan (August 06, 2015, 10:24 PM)

Annnnndddddd....this behavior just spontaneously started working out of the blue last night. Windows 10 works in mysterious ways.

I'm glad all my irritants are solving themselves one by one, but I'd like to know the how/why of the solutions rather than just materializing out of nothing.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #46 on:** August 08, 2015, 09:48 AM »

Our IT department is currently at about 20 - in production - Win 10 upgrades. So far all "failures" have been non Win 10 related; hardware issues, malware, and customer site wireless network performance issues causing a 2 hour stall getting install updates.

More on-topic-er:
I have noticed a tendency towards aberrant behavior on older (e.g. mine) machines. Currently the jump list for - pinned to the taskbar - IE has vanished ... for IIRC the third time. Actually, on this last trip...the IE icon itself vanished from the taskbar. So I had to manually chase it down in PF and staple it back to the TB *Shrug*

...Mind you this particular OS instance has been in existence since 2006; starting life as Vista, then upgraded to 7, and now 10. So the fact that it runs at all is probably some sort of F***ing miracle.

Innuendo · « **Reply #47 on:** August 08, 2015, 02:49 PM »

...Mind you this particular OS instance has been in existence since 2006; starting life as Vista, then upgraded to 7, and now 10. So the fact that it runs at all is probably some sort of F***ing miracle.
-Stoic Joker (August 08, 2015, 09:48 AM)

I remember when upgrade install lifespans were measured in hours rather than years.

Deozaan · « **Reply #48 on:** August 08, 2015, 04:18 PM »

No? I see the color change slightly when I click. When I click, it looks like the hover/highlight color goes away and returns.
-Deozaan (August 06, 2015, 10:24 PM)

Annnnndddddd....this behavior just spontaneously started working out of the blue last night. Windows 10 works in mysterious ways.

I'm glad all my irritants are solving themselves one by one, but I'd like to know the how/why of the solutions rather than just materializing out of nothing.
-Innuendo (August 08, 2015, 09:01 AM)

There was a "cumulative update" that came out a day or two ago. Did you install it? Maybe that's what fixed it.

Innuendo · « **Reply #49 on:** August 08, 2015, 05:42 PM »

There was a "cumulative update" that came out a day or two ago. Did you install it? Maybe that's what fixed it.
-Deozaan (August 08, 2015, 04:18 PM)

It was installed in the background with no announcement. That will take some getting used to...it was installed on the 5th. Must have been it...