Author Topic: Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition). (Read 84709 times)

40hz · « **Reply #25 on:** August 01, 2013, 01:49 PM »

Question: did you ever consider laptop style drives? They already have shock protection, don't vibrate much, or take up much space. Decent capacities and lower power requirements too. Speed shouldn't be an issue for most storage - and you can always use bigger and faster drives where/if needed.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #26 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:01 PM »

Question: did you ever consider laptop style drives? They already have shock protection, don't vibrate much, or take up much space. Decent capacities and lower power requirements too. Speed shouldn't be an issue for most storage - and you can always use bigger and faster drives where/if needed.
-40hz (August 01, 2013, 01:49 PM)

I mentioned that bit earlier. The 2.5" 'laptop style' drives are what all the servers are going to now anyhow and the 2.5" nearline SAS drives are screamingly fast (and not badly priced). You can pack a ton of them into a tower; the new Dell PE320's hold up to 16 drives.

rgdot · « **Reply #27 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:34 PM »

Even members of the DC family?

superboyac · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:36 PM »

Question: did you ever consider laptop style drives? They already have shock protection, don't vibrate much, or take up much space. Decent capacities and lower power requirements too. Speed shouldn't be an issue for most storage - and you can always use bigger and faster drives where/if needed.
-40hz (August 01, 2013, 01:49 PM)

I already have the drives. Many of them are 4TB. It will be a while before the smaller drives or SSDs catch up. I'm a sucker for huge storage!

superboyac · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2013, 02:36 PM »

Even members of the DC family?
-rgdot (August 01, 2013, 02:34 PM)

Well...yes, I'm afraid. Although since you guys are so knowledgeable in these areas, permission will probably be easily granted.

superboyac · « **Reply #30 on:** August 01, 2013, 03:17 PM »

(intermission)
pron:

40hz · « **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2013, 03:53 PM »

Question: did you ever consider laptop style drives? They already have shock protection, don't vibrate much, or take up much space. Decent capacities and lower power requirements too. Speed shouldn't be an issue for most storage - and you can always use bigger and faster drives where/if needed.
-40hz (August 01, 2013, 01:49 PM)

I mentioned that bit earlier.
-Stoic Joker (August 01, 2013, 02:01 PM)

Sorry. Wasn't trying to steal anybody's thunder or suggestion. Just "askin' the question." That's all.

40hz · « **Reply #32 on:** August 01, 2013, 04:00 PM »

(intermission)
pron: (see attachment in previous post) (see attachment in previous post)
-superboyac (August 01, 2013, 03:17 PM)

Bloody!

Although I would have done it up in full steampunk if I were gonna go to that extreme.

Like so:

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

Ideally with some onsite support technician like this (although this one specializes in airships and the blending of tea IIRC):

superboyac · « **Reply #33 on:** August 01, 2013, 10:34 PM »

yes.

superboyac · « **Reply #34 on:** August 02, 2013, 12:03 PM »

Revisiting the bungee cord idea from 40hz (from this link):

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

I like it! Simple to do. Just build the brackets on the side with holes with the right spacing (probably can just find it at home depot). I may give this one a shot. I wonder what material I should use for the bungee, and where to get it from.

wraith808 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 02, 2013, 12:04 PM »

I think it goes without saying, but I figured I'd be remiss if I didn't at least mention it...

Check it's heat profile over time. With many things like this, heat tends to degrade under stress over time, and that's *definitely* not something you want to happen.

superboyac · « **Reply #36 on:** August 02, 2013, 12:25 PM »

I think instead of mounting the drives stacked vertically, it would be better to have just one "story" (i.e. flat like backblaze) for more stability. So the bottom of the box would have some silicone heat-resistant pads or rails for the drive to rest on. Then for the top, i can use din rails (or something with a lot of holes like that). Then I put the bungee cords there as spacers. Then I just slip the drives into the slots. Should be quiet, no problem with heat, open air circulation with the room fan plus central AC. How's that?

40hz · « **Reply #37 on:** August 02, 2013, 09:00 PM »

Revisiting the bungee cord idea from 40hz (from this link): (see attachment in previous post)
I like it! Simple to do. Just build the brackets on the side with holes with the right spacing (probably can just find it at home depot). I may give this one a shot. I wonder what material I should use for the bungee, and where to get it from.
-superboyac (August 02, 2013, 12:03 PM)

high-temp silicone (or other heat resistant plastic) cord, tubing, or elastic bands?

P.S. Thx for spotting that photo. I was going to draft up an illustration, but that photo shows very clearly what I had in mind - except I'd rotate it 90-degrees so the drives were mounded edgewise. By flowing air from underneath, the drives act as fins directing the airsteam and heat upwards. That would also allow you to stack tiers to save space with less worries since each drive would have air flowing over it's broadest surfaces (i.e. top and bottom)

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

If you went this way however, I'd probably put something between the tiers in case one of the bands ever let go. A rigid expanded aluminum or steel mesh might be good.

Screenshot from 2013-08-02 22:17:23.png

You can get sheets of it from home improvement centers along with aluminum and steel stock for making mounting rails and frames. They can be assembled with pop rivets so no welding or soldering is required. And pop rivets don't vibrate loose over time like a bolt and nut assembly can.

I've done many prototype assemblies for electronic projects this way.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #38 on:** August 02, 2013, 10:09 PM »

By expanded metal they mean make many small cuts and then stretch e.g. the edges tend to be really sharp. Maybe safer with something in the mesh or chicken wire/pet fencing area if you're going to start at a hardware store. It's not as stiff on its own, but at least it's round on both sides.

40hz · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2013, 10:59 PM »

^They have polished versions. Also coated and plated. The edges aren't necessarily always sharp. Depends on what you buy and where. The stuff sold primarily for interior heating duct returns is quite smoothly finished.

Another alternative is chopped down lengths of wire (or "ventilated") shelving, available in a variety of widths and finishes although 12" chrome is the most common.

Starting with a mini version of a wire shelf unit (they used to have small three shelf units that were something like 6" deep and about 24" long that might be good to cannibalize.

Another possibility might be to start with one of those wire storage cubes the bed & bath shops are always advertising...

40hz · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2013, 11:17 PM »

Of course if this is all getting way too science faire, you can always stock up on some of these from Icy Dock:

Find a tower with 9 drive bays and you could put 15 drives in it with three of these units. Or just create your own open cage to hold as many as you want. They're 5.75" wide, so 20 drives in a row would take up 28".

Hmm...5.75" x 3 = 17.25" so that should mean 15 drives should fit in a standard 19" equipment rack...

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2013, 08:42 AM »

Okay man, I'll meet you half way ... How about an old school stereo system equipment style stack of a few of these puppies?
http://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=151 (hot swap 2.5" drive 6-packs)

superboyac · « **Reply #42 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:09 PM »

Of course if this is all getting way too science faire, you can always stock up on some of these from Icy Dock:
(see attachment in previous post)
Find a tower with 9 drive bays and you could put 15 drives in it with three of these units. Or just create your own open cage to hold as many as you want. They're 5.75" wide, so 20 drives in a row would take up 28".

Hmm...5.75" x 3 = 17.25" so that should mean 15 drives should fit in a standard 19" equipment rack...

-40hz (August 02, 2013, 11:17 PM)

ok, if we're back to the drive bay design (which I like, seems the easiest)...
The icy dock bay you linked looks really nice feature wise. I've looked at several of these trayless drive bays over the years. I really don't like plastic parts at all for them if I can help it. The icy dock one is aluminum EXCEPT for the door which is plastic, and already a newegg customer mentioned it breaking. That's why I ended up preferring the istardock one because it's all aluminum. Here at home, I have maybe 3-4 of these different types of designs, but none of them are all metal, most have the door being plastic minumum. The best one i have is from dat optic, and even that has the plastic door.
{edit} ACTUALLY...turns out that even the istarusa model is not fully aluminum. But i can't tell which part is not aluminum. I want an all metal cage, meaning both the chassis and doors and locking mechanisms are all metal. Of course, the pcb and stuff on the inside can be plastic, but those three items i'd prefer to be metal.

superboyac · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:16 PM »

For 9-bay cases, the ones that I like are the following:
Antec nine hundred:

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).
I like this one because it has the full 9-bays, but also the huge 200mm fan on top. Looks kind of hip too.

Addonics storage tower IX:
What's good about this one is that it's specifically built just for drive storage. Compared to the antec, though, it doesn't have the nice fan options. So i think i'd choose the antec over this one.

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

Actually, check that! I'm a big fan of the coolermaster cases. They have a couple of 9-bay options, check out this one!
Stryker:

Please help superboyac build a server (2013 edition).

wraith808 · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:25 PM »

For 9-bay cases, the ones that I like are the following:
Antec nine hundred: (see attachment in previous post)I like this one because it has the full 9-bays, but also the huge 200mm fan on top. Looks kind of hip too.
-superboyac (August 03, 2013, 02:16 PM)

I have this one, and I loved it for my primary box. Now that its been relegated to my backup box/server... not so much. For the role that you're anticipating, I personally wouldn't choose it. And the fan on top doesn't help with heat exchange as much as it might seem that it would.

superboyac · « **Reply #45 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:31 PM »

Here's an in-depth review of the iSTARUSA bays that I like. Just FYI, it's not the latest version of their design, so I don't know what has changed. What I really want to know is if the whole thing is metal or if the door is still plastic. Seems like the latching tongue is metal for sure, but not sure about the rest of the door.

superboyac · « **Reply #46 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:32 PM »

For 9-bay cases, the ones that I like are the following:
Antec nine hundred: (see attachment in previous post)I like this one because it has the full 9-bays, but also the huge 200mm fan on top. Looks kind of hip too.
-superboyac (August 03, 2013, 02:16 PM)

I have this one, and I loved it for my primary box. Now that its been relegated to my backup box/server... not so much. For the role that you're anticipating, I personally wouldn't choose it. And the fan on top doesn't help with heat exchange as much as it might seem that it would.
-wraith808 (August 03, 2013, 02:25 PM)

What specifically did you not like about it? What features would you have preferred to see as your server box?

superboyac · « **Reply #47 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:35 PM »

Here's another review for the istarusa model, this time with the current model. Still can't tell if it's all metal! But I think I still prefer this one. Maybe I'll just get one unit for now and examine it myself:
http://www.motherboa...ive-enclosure-review

The reviewer says the holes in the front are machined. That tells me it's metal. So maybe I'll go with these.

40hz · « **Reply #48 on:** August 03, 2013, 02:51 PM »

^The only fully metal drive bays I'm familiar with are all for the notebook form factor. Most of them use trays too.

FWIW I wouldn't want to put more than 10 fullsize SATA drives in a single tower enclosure, no matter who makes it. 10 drives cranks out about as much heat as I think standard air cooling (and a fan array that won't blast your ears out) could handle.

superboyac · « **Reply #49 on:** August 03, 2013, 03:26 PM »

^The only fully metal drive bays I'm familiar with are all for the notebook form factor. Most of them use trays too.

FWIW I wouldn't want to put more than 10 fullsize SATA drives in a single tower enclosure, no matter who makes it. 10 drives cranks out about as much heat as I think standard air cooling (and a fan array that won't blast your ears out) could handle.

-40hz (August 03, 2013, 02:51 PM)

OK, if we take that into consideration, that might actually make the decision easier. So most of these big towers have 9 bays, so let's say 9 drives per tower max. that also reduces the cramming of drives into those cages, which should be better for air flow. For more drives, I'll just duplicate towers...18 drives --> 2 towers, 24 drives--> 3 towers.

and I'll just buy single drive bays from the same manufacturer...here's a good video review:

this is a good option because it maximizes modularity too. if i want even numbers for whatever reason, i do 8 drives per tower. and the spare bay i can use for a lcd display for temp or something. I'm liking this option.

Yes, I'd like it to be as quiet as possible for normal house conditions. I was wondering if this is a situation where'd i'd have to leave the ac running 24/7 (i don't necessarily like that). Or can i have a fan on 24/7 and the ac on only when i'm home? Worst case scenario, i was thinking of modifying the ac system so that one room gets 24/7 ac. i have my license for that, so i should be able to figure that out!

So now, it's looking like...8-9 drives per tower. No fancy cooling necessary other than fitting the tower with it's default fans. perhaps a room fan also. the storage tower(s) can be connected to my current desktop, or i can build a new desktop. I kind of have this current one doing everything just the way i like, i don't want to install a server OS on it now and go through all that, so maybe i'll make a new one.