Author Topic: All-In-One Multi-Touch Computers - Thoughts? (Read 34004 times)

JavaJones · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:13 PM »

Well that's just lame, both on Win7's part and, IMO, on the monitor manufacturer's part as it sounds like they're doing some non-standard weirdness. Oh well.

- Oshyan

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2012, 07:23 AM »

For those of you who have used an AIO, how do you find looking at the screen so close you can reach it with you hands? I hate using my laptop and screen together - I much prefer to use either an external monitor with the laptop keyboard or wireless kb with laptop screen pushed away (or both). Then again my tired old eyes like a bit of distance relief for extended viewing. I can't image using an AIO for anything other than a media centre or similar where I only make a few inputs then walk away.
-DougalS (January 25, 2012, 10:12 PM)

Here's a different perspective. Work went with the all-in-one style for this fleet upgrade. My solution - I just don't bother to touch it! Now it's basically back to being a fancy desktop, except it really IS a desktop now, not a "floortop"!

I'm a software guy, I hate hardware, so I'd be taking it to a shop anyway if something fizzed out.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:09 AM »

I have seen a number of customers with AIO and touch screen computers - not had to take one apart yet (apart from a jammed DVD in a slot drive).

The touch screen looks fun for the first five minutes but I haven't seen anyone bother using it after the first five minutes.

There's a slight frisson - ooo cool, and then - where's the mouse.

This is my biggest worry with Windows 8 - manufacturers will start moving wholesale to touchscreen AIOs to 'take advantage' the new lame features and it will become a nightmare and expensive to repair or upgrade them without a ridiculously expensive return to base.

superboyac · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2012, 10:06 AM »

It really depends on the person (I'm not a fan). I imagine most people here know enough about computers to understand that the "ease" that these AIOs offer are probably not worth it to you. From what I've seen with my friends, they like these computers mainly because they don't have to "worry about all the cables and stuff". They also like the idea of grabbing the unit and taking it somewhere...it's kinda portable, I suppose.

But in reality, no one (except maybe one of my friends) moves the computer, like, ever. So there goes that benefit. Secondly, if you know what hardware components cost and you understand the specs, you'll probably end up with the thought, "I can get this and that cheaper with dell (or hp, or build my own)".

I'm a big time nerd with computers, so I like to have my options open and flexible. I like the cables, and the separate boxes, and a tower so ridiculously big, I can crawl into it. But that's me.

40hz · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2012, 12:07 PM »

But in reality, no one (except maybe one of my friends) moves the computer, like, ever. So there goes that benefit. Secondly, if you know what hardware components cost and you understand the specs, you'll probably end up with the thought, "I can get this and that cheaper with dell (or hp, or build my own)".

I'm a big time nerd with computers, so I like to have my options open and flexible. I like the cables, and the separate boxes, and a tower so ridiculously big, I can crawl into it. But that's me.
-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 10:06 AM)

+1 on both points. I don't think I've ever acquired a piece of technology or a tool that I haven't begun to disassemble and tinker with less than 15 seconds after I got it. Many times, I've only done it in my mind. But not always.

There's a certain inventor/DIY mindset a lot of us have that will never be totally satisfied with any canned solution - no matter how perfect it is.

And as far as neat, built-in, polished appliancey looking computers and environments go - you can keep them. I'm of the submarine/missile silo/matrix persuasion where everything's out in plain sight and easy to get to.

Look at this little crow's nest. It's the control center in a Virginia-class nuclear attack submarine. It's awesome.

I'll always prefer my computing environment to be a little funky looking. Part of that comes from building my own (either out of necessity or for the pure joy of it) as often as possible. To me, there are few things more intellectually gratifying than sitting it the presence (or middle

) of some incredibly complex dogpile of technology - and realize you understand it all its complexity!

And it becomes an even bigger 'head rush' when you've built it yourself.

So please pass your pretty tablets and slick Apple designs over to someone else. Ūber-neat packaging leads to brain-rot! Besides, builders like to leave the hood open so they can admire their creations.

And fix them.

wraith808 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2012, 01:12 PM »

As someone who has dabbled in both paths, I like a good combination. I like to have my uber-hot-rod pc for esoteric applications... but I also like to have my comfort devices that I know will just work when I pick them up. And in an ideal situation, they'll be ruggedized so that when the hot rod pc gives me fits, they can survive being thrown against the wall.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:16 PM »

And in an ideal situation, they'll be ruggedized so that when the hot rod pc gives me fits, they can survive being thrown against the wall.
-wraith808 (January 30, 2012, 01:12 PM)

So not an iPad then

superboyac · « **Reply #32 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:33 PM »

I'll always prefer my computing environment to be a little funky looking. Part of that comes from building my own (either out of necessity or for the pure joy of it) as often as possible. To me, there are few things more intellectually gratifying than sitting it the presence (or middle mrgreen) of some incredibly complex dogpile of technology - and realize you understand it all its complexity!

Me too! I keep telling people, the personal computer is probably the most complex, advanced piece of equipment most people will ever use. As such, you can't expect it to be as powerful as it is AND be super simple to use. You have to choose. That's why I get annoyed when Apple users bitch about how hard pc's are to use...they want all the power, but they want it done with a single button. And if you try to explain that, they throw a little bit of 'tude at you. Of course, we pc apologists do the same also.

But yeah, I've recently accepted that fact...I can't expect the fancy devices to satisfy my needs. I'm always going to need to hack it in some way (even just mentally, as you say). So I've accepted that the things I like will always make my room/house/car/whatever look like something out of Doc's garage in back to the future. Can't help it anymore.

superboyac · « **Reply #33 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM »

followup...
I have now tried every tablet on the market. They all stink, big time. But the ipad STILL has the best combination of responsiveness and screen quality, which is really the two biggies of tablet features. All of the Androids are awful compared to it. You can do a little more "poweruser" things with the Androids compared to a (jailbroken) ipad, but not as much as people think. I prefer the ipad right now.

But I'm really hoping a Windows 8 tablet comes out with (very key!) a build quality and responsiveness at least close to the ipad. I'm not going to want to use it if there are frustrating delays with swipes and touches. I have no doubt the productivity of the Windows tablet will far surpass any of the androids or ipads...no doubt whatsoever. Doesn't mean the applications will be easy to use on the tablet, but at least you'll be able to "do" the things you need to get done. File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #34 on:** January 30, 2012, 07:29 PM »

File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.
-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM)

Except from what I have seen of Metro it doesn't look as though you will have any more file access than iOS - I may be wrong but it does seem to use the same per-app locked in structure.

superboyac · « **Reply #35 on:** January 30, 2012, 07:38 PM »

File/folder access is THE distinguishing feature of Windows vs. Android/iOS.
-superboyac (January 30, 2012, 03:38 PM)

Except from what I have seen of Metro it doesn't look as though you will have any more file access than iOS - I may be wrong but it does seem to use the same per-app locked in structure.
-Carol Haynes (January 30, 2012, 07:29 PM)

No way, I don't believe it. The Metro is just a gui layer for the touch stuff. A developer was in the cubicle next to mine a few weeks ago and he was testing out Windows 8 on a tablet. And you can switch from the Metro mode to a full Windows desktop mode that looked pretty much like Windows 7. Windows won't be Windows if you take away the file/folder access (i.e. Windows explorer....there's no way!). I mean, if they do, I'm done with Windows and so will a ton of other people. It will be Linux time at that point for sure.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #36 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:06 PM »

I was under the impression that tablets were going to be ARM based and that the Windows mode was only going to be available on PCs or Intel based tablets (if they ever make it to the general public). Given what MS are trying to do in the tablet market place (ie. lock it down and screw as much money as Apple out its users) I can see them being keen on ARM based tablets and a locked in marketplace!

superboyac · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2012, 08:30 PM »

I was under the impression that tablets were going to be ARM based and that the Windows mode was only going to be available on PCs or Intel based tablets (if they ever make it to the general public). Given what MS are trying to do in the tablet market place (ie. lock it down and screw as much money as Apple out its users) I can see them being keen on ARM based tablets and a locked in marketplace!
-Carol Haynes (January 30, 2012, 08:06 PM)

Hmm...that's disturbing news. Well, I'm dying for a Windows 8 tablet that has a full desktop. If the Windows tablets are as locked down as described, I don't see why anyone would use it over Android or iOS. Or, to be more clear, I don't see any distinguishing features. If you don't open up the file/folder system...it's just an appliance. I mean, geez, somebody has to make a tablet that can do business stuff. We've been using tablets in our company now for a while, and we are continually running into limitations to the point where we just carry the things around now to browse the internet during meetings. Maybe a little email or messaging is convenient. But at some point, businesses are going to need that Blackberry power combined with Windows desktop power, or else they'll just stick to their laptops. Windows 8 will fail big time if they don't put a desktop on the tablet.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #38 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:10 AM »

That's why I think Windows 8 will be an upgrade to rival ME and Vista - I think MS are forgetting their core market in the hopes of generating the sort of revenue Apple gets from a totally locked down infrastructure and they are going to use the desktop OS to try and persuade people their tablets are cool - in which case I think they will fail on both counts.

What MS has been good at (at least on average in alternate releases) is Windows desktop and server operating systems, and their biggest source of income is business and government. Who in that core market is going to upgrade to the desktop Windows 8? Many haven't even moved from XP yet and I can see a lot of tech departments saying lets move to 7 before 8 appears just to avoid 8 and all the compatibility headaches associated with that move. This will have a huge knock on effect to future versions of Windows - especially as XP and 7 are just so good.

MS have forgotten that their incredible global domination on the desktop has been because they provided an OS that could be installed on just about any computer and allowed for huge variety of target audiences. Now they see Apple starting to undermine their profits and rather than going for their own approach to a tablet based OS they are blindly following the Apple approach in the hop that they can take away that market share. There are too problems with that. Firstly they are probably too late because the iPad is becoming a ubiquitous consumer level product and secondly even when they do produce a good product they are terrible at the customer level marketing.

The only product that MS have produced in years (possibly decades) that has been globally successful in a way that got customers excited is the XBOX and for most consumers there is a common thread - they don't know it is MS and MS have gone out of their way to make sure it is not totally obvious that it is an MS product.

superboyac · « **Reply #39 on:** January 31, 2012, 09:16 AM »

It doesn't sound like file management is going anywhere. It's being tweaked, improved:
improvements in file management

wraith808 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM »

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...

J-Mac · « **Reply #41 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM »

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...
-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?! (

)

Jim

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:38 PM »

It doesn't sound like file management is going anywhere. It's being tweaked, improved:
improvements in file management

-superboyac (January 31, 2012, 09:16 AM)

File management isn't going anywhere in the Windows Desktop - but we were talking about Metro cased tablets - as far as I know ARM based tablets won't have desktop windows - just Metro - and as far as I can tell apps in Metro are just as annoying as on the iPad with no easy access to the file system.

Doubtless someone will write an app to give Metro access the the FS but then they have to convince MS to let you have it because, like Apple, you will only be able to get Metro apps from the MS store.

superboyac · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:45 PM »

That's no big deal, then. If they make some tablets without a desktop to compete with the ipads and androids, that's fine. But they're going to make tablets with both metro and desktop, or desktop only also. So...I don't see any problem with that from our standpoint. If someone doesn't want the restrictions of metro-only, they can get a more full-featured Windows 8 tablet.

wraith808 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:48 PM »

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...
-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?! ( )

-J-Mac (January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM)

That went over my head...

40hz · « **Reply #45 on:** January 31, 2012, 02:10 PM »

When it comes to tablets, I'm holding out for something that ships with a pure OS and no jailbreaking required. Not some locked-down version of Linux with a half a ton of BS Java 'pretty face' sitting on top of it.

Enter the Spark tablet running Plasma Active. (If you don't know what Plasma Active is, look here for full info.)

If this puppy ever actually sees the light of day (and I've been disappointed with announcements such as this before) I may finally make my first tablet PC purchase (link to full article here):

The Reveal

As I noted earlier in the week, my recent blog posts have been slowly leading up to something, and here's what that something is:

The first tablet computer that comes with Plasma Active pre-installed.

It's name is "Spark", in recognition of it being the start to an even bigger flame.

It sports an open Linux stack on unlocked hardware and comes with an open content and services market. The user experience is, of course, Plasma Active and it will be available to the general public.

The hardware is modest but compelling: 1GHz AMLogic ARM processor, Mali-400 GPU, 512 MB RAM, 4GB internal storage plus SD card slot, a 7" capacitive multi-touch screen and wifi connectivity.

I'm sure some of you are already wondering what the retail price will be. The answer: a mere €200.

A Bit of the Bigger Picture

This is more than just another piece of hardware on the market, though. This is a unique opportunity for Free software. Finally we have a device coming to market on our terms. It has been designed by and is usable by us on our terms. We are not waiting for some big company to give us what we desire, we're going out there and making it happen together. Just as important: the proceeds will be helping fuel the efforts that make this all possible.

It's also more meaningful than "just" Free software: The people who get to use these tablets will have in their hands a device that is more than an application bucket that sees them as a consumer. They will have a device that places value on who they are and what they are doing. This lies at the heart of Activities in Plasma Active and the open software stack will drive that trend further. Perhaps best of all: there's no walled garden to get locked into or which can be taken away.

This also will provide opportunities to the wider Free software ecosystem. Partnerships are being forged to provide things as diverse as OwnCloud hosting services, Kolab and Kontact Touch deployment support and exciting Qt/QML add-on apps for download.

The content store will offer great Free Culture artifacts such as digital books from Project Gutenberg as well as contents and apps for purchase. It will provide a conduit to users for those who love writing great software, Free and otherwise, using the typical Linux tools.

In case it wasn't painfully clear already: this epitomizes what I've been writing about for the last few days. It is a product made with and out of a commitment to the philosophy of making, playing and living. In fact, that's the brand under which this tablet, and those that follow it, is being brought to market under: Make·Play·Live.

.. but that's not all!

I'll be sharing more information as to when the tablet will be available to be shipped directly to you (soon!), how you can place orders for them as well as more details on the hardware and software provided.

It will still never be able to replace a keyboard equipped laptop for me or many people. Even the Plasma Active developers acknowledge the fundamental difference between today's tablet users and the rest of the computing community in their note to app developers:

App developers

Small ultraportables favor consumption over creation. Active users generally read reports rather than write them. Touch interfaces are good for selecting; not so good for high volume typing. People want an ongoing supply of good games. Plasma Active offers a rewarding opportunity for developers. Creativity and innovation thrive in KDE's open, collaborative development environment.

Would that Apple (and everybody else who is positioning tablet PCs as the replacement for desktops) had the same degree of insight, or - to be more blunt about it - the same honesty and candor.

But even so, with it's unlocked OS (and LGPL license), it will afford people like me the opportunity to better take it where I want to go than any other alternative currently out there.

Let's hope it actually ships!

superboyac · « **Reply #46 on:** January 31, 2012, 02:49 PM »

Nice find 40!! yes, that is exactly the thing we want to have. If that ever comes out, I will do my best to support that business. We need more of these. Whoever has the talent and the willpower needs to start creating product on their own. No more relying on the big boys to support us. They are NOT supporting us, they are wasting our time, our energy, our precious few moments here in this life. We're working like dogs for no good reason...our lives and the lives of those around us is not ebing improved by our own actions. It is improving the lives of those who don't know, don't care about, and frankly those who don't care about us. We need to do more things that help those around us, or things that people around us want or need. And let it grow from there. We can't wait for the others to give us our share...it ain't coming.

J-Mac · « **Reply #47 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:00 PM »

Looks like they're taking a page from teracopy...
-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 10:03 AM)

Huh? You mean Microsoft is going to focus on Android and iOS products and ignore their mainstream products?! ( )

-J-Mac (January 31, 2012, 10:54 AM)

That went over my head...
-wraith808 (January 31, 2012, 01:48 PM)

Sorry - back a year or two ago, there had not been development for almost a year, the developer had stopped responding to support requests, no blog posts about Teracopy. He finally blogged that he was focusing all his efforts on iPhone and Android apps because there was so much more revenue to be made there and he didn't know when he would get back to Teracopy. There were several hundred angry flames on his blog comments - which don’t seem to be there anymore BTW! That's what my comment (wisecrack!) was about.

Jim

40hz · « **Reply #48 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:46 PM »

Nice find 40!! yes, that is exactly the thing we want to have.
-superboyac (January 31, 2012, 02:49 PM)

The other is the Roku box for your TV set. My GF picked up one (from $59 -$99) about a month ago. Combined with a vanilla wifi router and her $7.99/mo NetFlix streaming account, she's all set. She dropped DirectTV and now gets better picture quality and all the movies she wants to see when she wants to see them. She was contemplating buying a HuluPlus* account (also $7.99/mo) to get network channels and shows, but hasn't so far. She's since discovered independent web TV and liked it so much she's scaled back on her NetFlix watching.

She'll be saving herself well over a thousand dollars this year by buying her entertainment this way.

Roku even threw in a free copy of Angry Birds as part of the deal. Awesome!

-----

*Note: due to legal restrictions by the TV networks, Roku and other set top boxes (i.e. XBox, Wii, Sony, etc.) are only allowed to carry HuluPlus - not the free Hulu offering you can still watch on your PC.

superboyac · « **Reply #49 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:47 PM »

The other is the Roku box for your TV set.
-40hz (January 31, 2012, 03:46 PM)

Roku has been in my backup plans for a while. But...superboyac is going to overengineer hisself a home theater system in 2012 that has been in the works for 3 years.