Amazon Signs Up Authors, Writing Publishers Out of Deal

[mahesh2k]

I guess we're comparing our experience to that of kids in today's age. In that case my opinion falls on ground completely. But if you give your kids nook or kindle before paperback book then i guess they'll pick these tablets over paperback. Coolness factor and complexity attracts more to human mind sometimes. I think we're stuck in between pre-internet and high noise internet age. That makes us feel weird about the whole ebook vs paperback stuff.

In the last four years computers are changed rapidly in a such way that i don't know how to grasp all this information and cut the noise. I mean if someone from DC or from neighbors told you about nook in 2005, i doubt anyone could have imagined about ebooks. I think tablets, ebooks and mobiles in 2011 have more control over owner than the owner controlling these devices. When a work or device gets this much control over persons brain, they hardly remember or hold much memories about them. I mean most of us remember old consoles or computers or laptop, but today this stuff is changing so rapidly, i doubt anyone of us will remember them by their version and their impact on our life. I mean do you have memories with your kindle 1 ? iphone 1 ? ipad 2 or samsung galaxy 2 tab pro? My point is version changes, hardware changes and adapting to these changes makes our brain so exhausted, i doubt people who are stuck in between internet and pre-internet world will have memories like they used to have about stuff before internet or when technology used to run at snails pace.

[wraith808]

But if you give your kids nook or kindle before paperback book then i guess they'll pick these tablets over paperback. Coolness factor and complexity attracts more to human mind sometimes. I think we're stuck in between pre-internet and high noise internet age. That makes us feel weird about the whole ebook vs paperback stuff.

-mahesh2k (October 25, 2011, 01:35 PM)

I wonder.  Just like I wonder sometimes if she'll feel the same way I did on that day when I took her into Barnes and Noble for the first time someday.  I've always loved bookstores... the small bookstores before the big chains came out.  I remember this old used book store that I'd go in and stay for hours just looking through pulp paperback books- the 99 cent kind on the cheap paper that if you dogeared them a crack would appear in the fold.  And just sitting there, reading.  And when I'd get home, I'd have this stack of books that I'd watch dwindle as I read them.

I still read- and the upside is that if I get the desire to read a book again (I do that very often) then I have the new and the old with me all the time.  I don't have to search through books to find the one I'm looking for- I just type in the name, and there it is.  I don't have to spend hours looking through books or going to stores- I just browse to it on the internet and hit buy and then it's on my device.  And if I move again, half of my moving charge won't be because of books- I remember one of my moves where they quoted me half the price the end cost was, and the difference was because of the sheer volume of books.  I also remember a move in which I had to leave behind quite a few books because I just didn't have the space or money to keep them. 

But seeing her sense of wonder when we went to the bookstore really made me realize what I'd lost to get the advantages.

Everything is a trade off, and this is no exception.  Everything is a choice, and everyone should have the opportunity to make their own.

[Carol Haynes]

I don't object to people having the choice - but the choice is important to me and if corporate publishers get their way they will move to digital only (just like many music publishers are trying to do with iTunes and MP3 stores).

It makes total business sense to go for digital only - almost zero costs, zero risk and potentially much higher profits.

If they get their way there won't be any choice - and that's what bothers me most. There is a rapidly growing 'digtal only' library of books appearing. Luckily I don't wan to read most of what I have seen - and I have refused to purchase anything I am interested in unless there is a DRM free version.

It's not so long ago that Amazon and Apple were both on the verge of bankruptcy - what happens to your proprietary libraries if/when something happens or another business comes along and pushes one of them out of the market?

[wraith808]

But I guess my point from the other side is, in a lot of cases in the drive to make sure that the corporations don't get what they want, and the drive to make our voices heard, we forget that not all done is bad, other people have differing opinions even as far as our opinions are concerned, and that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It's fine that we might say that "If there isn't a DRM-free version, I won't buy it."  It's not fine IMO if we say, "You can't offer it unless you offer a DRM-free version."

Would I like there to be no DRM?  Sure!  I'd also like if people would pay without DRM, and companies would trust that, and the people that made the content would trust that.  But we don't live in that world, and if the choice is being able to take advantage of the convenience with DRM, or not having the content, at this point, I'd choose having the DRM.  There are things that they could do to change this, and I've run afoul DRM before.  But I'm willing to take the risk- and that should be OK.

There is a rapidly growing 'digtal only' library of books appearing.

-Carol Haynes (October 25, 2011, 03:13 PM)

The market will support what the market will support.  And if the market speaks towards a digital only segment, then that's what the market will get.  Many readers don't have e-readers.  And I don't think that portion will be so easily silenced.

[IainB]

A valid question that could be raised here is:
Would corporations actually try to push their new product/technology and attempt to wipe out the de facto existing (competitive) technology, if the latter actually had some value to consumers?


Following on from an earlier quote:

another quote springs to mind from the same song:

They took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum
And then they charged all the people twenty-five bucks just to see 'em

If eBooks don't become the standard I can see large corporations seeing deforestation as a solution to the marketing problem!

-Carol Haynes (October 22, 2011, 07:03 PM)

Carol's comment (above) might not seem quite so far-fetched as one might think if you look at what has been described as "the obscenity of selling bottled water":

• it's done in competition to perfectly good chlorinated tap or rain water supplies.
• at least one of the manufacturers has declared (from memory) that "to increase our market share we must regard tap water as the enemy and destroy the public perception that tap water is OK to drink" (OWTTE).
• in the Philippines they have already achieved that perception.
• the manufacture of bottled water leaves a trail of waste due to discarded plastic bottle littering.
• many of the plastic bottles contain the BPA toxin, which is released into the "pure" water.

Never mind corporations manufacturing e-books v. hardcopy, what about the basic necessities of life?
Monsanto has already secured copyright over a large swathe of one of the world's staples with GM corn, and is ruthlessly working to exercise and expand that control.
Maybe it's not going to be too long before the air we breathe is going to be packaged and sold to us as "pure" air, with the same marketing BS being trotted out as for water.

Would this be meeting a need?
Do we need to have "options" such as these forced down our throats by corporations so as to become the only option for us to survive?
Some people might say that the direction that things have already been pushed towards in the marketplace, by psychopathic corporations, appears potentially ominous and quite frightening.

[Carol Haynes]

Carol's comment (above) might not seem quite so far-fetched as one might think if you look at what has been described as "the obscenity of selling bottled water"

-IainB (October 25, 2011, 07:03 PM)

The other point about bottled water is that the water quality standards and health standards are much lower for bottled water (at least in the EU - don't know about other places) allowing more bacteria and greater chemical content than utility supplied water,

Maybe it's not going to be too long before the air we breathe is going to be packaged and sold to us as "pure" air

-IainB (October 25, 2011, 07:03 PM)

It already is in some Japanese cities and has been for some time.

[IainB]

It already is in some Japanese cities and has been for some time.

-Carol Haynes (October 25, 2011, 07:13 PM)

Seriously?
I have seen air sold in cans as a joke/gimmick from different parts of the world, but not as a "for-real-breathe-this" commodity, like bottled water is definitely intended for repeated human consumption.

Come to think of it, I have also seen plastic bags of water sold with Christmas cards as a gimmick, with the words "Real snow from the North Pole" on the card.

[IainB]

The other point about bottled water is that the water quality standards and health standards are much lower for bottled water (at least in the EU - don't know about other places) allowing more bacteria and greater chemical content than utility supplied water,

-Carol Haynes (October 25, 2011, 07:13 PM)

Yes, the same (low water quality standards and health standards) is true for "pure" New Zealand bottled water. I wouldn't touch any of it with a bargepole anyway, for a whole raft of reasons, regardless of its supposed source.
I think it was a year or so ago that one NZ manufacturer of bottled water was found to be just bottling tap water and selling it as "pure NZ spring water".

Come to think of it, the only bottled water that I would consider buying would be mineral waters, but only where it came in glass bottles and where I personally have checked out the bona fides of the source - e.g., from Trefriw Wells Spa (the old Roman mineral water caves) in North Wales, and Malvern Water from the springs in the Malvern hills (bottled originally by Schweppes, now part of the Coca-Cola Corporation).

[Carol Haynes]

It already is in some Japanese cities and has been for some time.

-Carol Haynes (October 25, 2011, 07:13 PM)

Seriously?
I have seen air sold in cans as a joke/gimmick from different parts of the world, but not as a "for-real-breathe-this" commodity, like bottled water is definitely intended for repeated human consumption.

Come to think of it, I have also seen plastic bags of water sold with Christmas cards as a gimmick, with the words "Real snow from the North Pole" on the card.

-IainB (October 25, 2011, 07:35 PM)

Here are the first Google search I found on 'japan oxygen':

http://www.treehugge.../canned_oxygen_a.php
http://abcnews.go.co...d=1999240&page=1
http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=slVk2G_bvBQ

Schweppes, now part of the Coca-Cola Corporation

Don't get me started on Coca Cola ... they take the water away from impoverished communities and package it to be sent to America and Europe:

Just one example: http://www.beveragew...tid=3&Itemid=173

[IainB]

Ah thanks for the searches/links - but that's not "fresh air" is it? -  it's apparently oxygen.
I think there has long been a market for oxygen - I recall that it's recognised as being a harmless pick-me-up when you are tired or suffering from hangover. I had a neighbour with MS who breathed oxygen whilst she sat in a hyperbaric chamber. It apparently worked very well to increase the oxygen uptake and alleviate the symptoms she suffered from.

And don't be too hard on Coca Cola.
We created that.
Coca Cola Corp. is just another psychopathic Frankenstinian monster our society has created. It's a very efficient psychopath too. So, it should not surprise us to find that Coca Cola are apparently doing something like taking the water away from impoverished communities and packaging it to be sent to America and Europe. Those actions would be typically characteristic of an efficient psychopathic corporation.

If you want to fix it, then fix the legal system that created it, not the creation itself - i.e., address the causal problem rather than the symptomatic problem. Meanwhile, that system continues to robotically create and support these licenced psychopathic legal entities, and teaches our society to value them highly as "successful corporations".

If you watched the movie "The Corporation", then you would have seen towards the end that they show how whole communities have daringly banded together to control these monsters in their midst, and make them less harmful and more beneficial to the community, humans and the environment.

I found it fascinating stuff to watch. I learned a lot. Showed it to my daughter Lily when she was 9. In discussion, it later became evident that she had thoughtfully absorbed the film in rather a balanced fashion. We still discuss it from time to time.

[IainB]

Another view on this: The 6 Shifts of a Kindle Dominated Marketplace

There's obviouly lots of different ways to look at these changes.

[mahesh2k]

I think fear of ebook taking over the paperback is no different than people who fear cloud music services taking over the traditional media formats. We're seeing this type of change since 2002, when mp3.com and lycos rhapsody changed the music distribution on the web. DRM was repelled by both artists and the consumers alike and the notorious lobby of RIAA and agents failed to control the media formats with the excuse of piracy.Thanks to all those warez and hackers for keeping mp3 format alive today despite the cloud attacks from various services. I think same will happen with ebook formats and people will still prefer paperbacks for some type of books.

[wraith808]

I think fear of ebook taking over the paperback is no different than people who fear cloud music services taking over the traditional media formats. We're seeing this type of change since 2002, when mp3.com and lycos rhapsody changed the music distribution on the web. DRM was repelled by both artists and the consumers alike and the notorious lobby of RIAA and agents failed to control the media formats with the excuse of piracy.Thanks to all those warez and hackers for keeping mp3 format alive today despite the cloud attacks from various services. I think same will happen with ebook formats and people will still prefer paperbacks for some type of books.

-mahesh2k (October 26, 2011, 06:55 AM)

^ this.

[IainB]

Looks like the niche must be pretty big, so Amazon could have some competition on their hands:

• Contently Provides An Open Marketplace for Writers and Publishers To Connect
• Google ebookstore - and they are basing delivery on the iriver Story HD™ reader.

[IainB]

Business can't seem to resist trying to control the customer: Remains of the Day: Barnes & Noble Restricts Internal Storage on Nook Tablet

[IainB]

Yet here we seem to have B&N on another (consumer-beneficial?) tack: Barnes & Noble Revealing Microsoft's 'Secret' Patents, Which It Believes Cover Android

Beyond revealing more of the patents, the company, in its filings, makes it clear what it believes Microsoft is doing:
Instead of focusing on innovation and the development of new products for consumers, Microsoft has decided to invest its efforts into driving open source developers from the mobile operating systems market. Through the use of offensive licensing agreements and the demand for unreasonable licensing fees, Microsoft is hindering creativity in the mobile operating systems market.... Through the use of oppressive licensing terms that amount to a veto power over a wide variety of innovative features in Android devices of all kinds, as well as its prohibitively expensive licensing fees, Microsoft is attempting to push open source software developers out of the market altogether.

[IainB]

Penguin Yanking Kindle Books From Libraries

New submitter moniker writes "Penguin Group is removing Kindle ebooks from libraries using Overdrive citing 'security concerns' as a weak excuse, while most likely taking a shot at Amazon. One more example of DRM being about protecting business models, not content."

[IainB]

How Publishers Are Cutting Their Own Throats With eBook DRM

Spoiler

by Soulskill

An anonymous reader writes "Sci-fi author Charlie Stross has written a post about how the Big Six book publishing companies have painted themselves into a corner in the rapidly growing ebook industry. Between user-unfriendly DRM and the Amazon juggernaut, they're slowly pushing themselves out of business. Quoting: 'Until 2008, ebooks were a tiny market segment, under 1% and easily overlooked; but in 2009 ebook sales began to rise exponentially, and ebooks now account for over 20% of all fiction sales. In some areas ebooks are up to 40% of the market and rising rapidly. (I am not making that last figure up: I'm speaking from my own sales figures.) And Amazon have got 80% of the ebook retail market. ... the Big Six's pig-headed insistence on DRM on ebooks is handing Amazon a stick with which to beat them harder. DRM on ebooks gives Amazon a great tool for locking ebook customers into the Kindle platform.'"

[Carol Haynes]

Presumably contracts are for a certain length of time and not in-perpetuity - what happens when the big six publishers finally realise that Amazon has them in a headlock and they don't renew their contract? Presumably a lot of blank Kindles ????

[wraith808]

Presumably contracts are for a certain length of time and not in-perpetuity - what happens when the big six publishers finally realise that Amazon has them in a headlock and they don't renew their contract? Presumably a lot of blank Kindles ????

-Carol Haynes (November 30, 2011, 03:48 AM)

I don't think it's that easy.  It's the DRM that's the problem, not the Kindle.  I think the point is that the DRM is driving sales of the Kindle over other devices as the DRM is kindle specific, rather than, for lack of a better word, open.  So people get locked into the platform.  Sort of like the way DRM on music used to work.  But the same out exists for them- remove the DRM.

[40hz]

Until there comes a time when publishers (in whatever form the distribution part of the business takes) decide to act as partners with the authors - as opposed to being simple gatekeepers and middlemen - it will continue to be business as usual.

And in the context of ebooks, "as usual" can generally be characterized as the authors and public both being robbed blind.

What I'd love to see is an arrangement similar to what  Bandcamp offers musicians:

• a place to host your content
• a point of presence and contact on the web
• the opportunity for community
• backoffice services (billing, payment processing, shopping carts, etc.)
• a rational and fair fee schedule for services rendered

Bandcamp provides infrastructure - something which has traditionally been the stumbling block for most people involved in creative endeavors. And in the case of Bandcamp, it's a win-win arrangement made possible by the fact its creators didn't succumb to greed or stupidity when they set it up. Content creators retain full ownership and control of their work - and with no lock-in contracts to deal with. You can part company with Bandcamp at any time with no penalty. It's a strictly an "at will" arrangement. You are also not locked into using it exclusively. Bandcamp can be used by itself, or as a supplemental marketing tool. You are free to make any other deals and arrangements you like with anybody else - provided, of course, those other people will allow you to.

Check them out at the link above. Then think about how well something similar could work for literary and software authors.

Be sure to read the FAQ. They have some very wise words on the question of piracy - and possibly the best ever insight as to what that means for musicians. And also a very good reason why musical excerpts (as opposed to full free sample tracks) are a bad idea.

Read some of it here!

One of my fans showed me a totally easy way that someone could STEAL my music off of Bandcamp using RealPlayer 14.1 beta 3, or RipTheWeb.com, or by going into Temporary Internet Files and renaming blah blah blah. What are you doing about this grave problem?

Nothing. Since streams on Bandcamp are full-length, rather than 30-second snippets, it's correct that someone could use one of the above methods to access the underlying 128k mp3. And sure, we could throw some technical hurdles in their way, but if they hit one of those hurdles, it's not like they'd slap their forehead and open their wallet. Instead, they'd just move on to some other site where those restrictions aren't in place, and you'll have squandered the chance to make your own site the premier destination for those seemingly cheap, but enthusiastic, word-spreading, and potentially later money-spending fans. In other words, the few people employing the above methods are better thought of as an opportunity, not a lost sale. If you're still skeptical, Andrew Dubber's post on the topic of music piracy is a must-read.

OK, but how about making the streams on Bandcamp 30-second snippets?

We again refer you to the wise words of Andrew Dubber. Here's the abridged version:

"Music is pretty much unique when it comes to media consumption. You don’t buy a movie ticket because you liked the film so much, and while you might buy a book because you enjoyed reading it so much at the library, typically you’ll purchase first, then consume...But music is different — and radio proves that. By far the most reliable way to promote music is to have people hear it. Repeatedly, if possible — and for free. After a while, if you’re lucky, people get to know and love the music. Sooner or later, they’re going to want to own it...whether it’s a pop tune, a heavily political punk album, or an experimental, avant-garde suite — the key is very simple: people have to hear music, then they will grow to like it, and then finally, if you’re lucky, they will engage in an economic relationship in order to consume (not just buy and listen to) that music. That’s the order it has to happen in. It can’t happen in any other order. There’s no point in hoping that people will buy the music, then hear it, then like it. They just won’t. Nobody really wants to buy a piece of music they don’t know — let alone one they haven’t heard. Especially if it’s by someone who lies outside their usual frame of reference. And a 30-second sample is a waste of your time and bandwidth. It’s worse than useless. That’s not enough to get to like your music. Let them hear it, keep it, live with it. And then bring them back as a fan."

Awesome! I think these folks have figured it out.


Obligatory disclaimer - 40hz is not affiliated with Bandcamp. But if my GF ever gets her band together, I'm going to seriously push her to use these guys. If something like this had been available when I was working as a professional musician...well...I'd still be working as one!

 


 

 

 

[superboyac]

Obligatory disclaimer - 40hz is not affiliated with Bandcamp. But if my GF ever gets her band together, I'm going to seriously push her to use these guys. If something like this had been available when I was working as a professional musician...well...I'd still be working as one! :mrgreen

-40hz (November 30, 2011, 09:28 AM)

Oh really??  Looks like I need to seriously consider it.  Thanks buddy!

[wraith808]

What I'd love to see is an arrangement similar to what  Bandcamp offers musicians:

• a place to host your content
• a point of presence and contact on the web
• the opportunity for community
• backoffice services (billing, payment processing, shopping carts, etc.)
• a rational and fair fee schedule for services rendered

-40hz (November 30, 2011, 09:28 AM)

Check out http://www.fsand.com and http://www.smashwords.com.  It exists, it's just no competition to Amazon or Barnes & Noble right now, mostly because they did something quite smart that the RIAA never did- allowed self-publishing.

[IainB]

Presumably contracts are for a certain length of time and not in-perpetuity - what happens when the big six publishers finally realise that Amazon has them in a headlock and they don't renew their contract? Presumably a lot of blank Kindles ????

-Carol Haynes (November 30, 2011, 03:48 AM)

I don't think it's that easy.  It's the DRM that's the problem, not the Kindle.  I think the point is that the DRM is driving sales of the Kindle over other devices as the DRM is kindle specific, rather than, for lack of a better word, open.  So people get locked into the platform.  Sort of like the way DRM on music used to work.  But the same out exists for them- remove the DRM.

-wraith808 (November 30, 2011, 07:14 AM)

+1 for what @Carol Haynes says.   
+1 for what @wraith808 link says.     

The reason I say this is that the Kindle does not meet  my criteria 3, 5, 6, 7a, 7b, 11 (see list below). In particular, the demonstrated capacity for Amazon to unilaterally and silently hack into your Kindle and their ruthless (psychopathic) pursuit of DRM in so doing beggars belief. It could well end up as "an empty Kindle", and the customer would have little or no recourse for remediation/restitution under the contract. I would not be in my right mind if I purchased a Kindle for my use.

I am prone to being a bit of a technology junkie, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I lose my sense of self-control or reason over it. For me, it is really quite pragmatic - it's typically about the implementation and alignment of information management with general information theory. That includes/covers things such as, for example, PCs/laptops, cameras, scanners, printers, memory sticks, and software for these things, and even related processes and discussion forums (like this one).

I am very critical of the quality, design and purposes of most new technology. I tend towards a minimalist approach. The technology that I acquire usually has to meet some general benefit and function criteria. I usually put it through a PMI (Plus, Minus, Interesting - per De Bono) review before I acquire it. The PMI will cover these pretty basic requirements:

• #1: Input: Does it improve my current processes of data/information/knowledge gathering?
• #2: Processing (includes Output): Does it improve my current processing methods?
• #3: Storage/backup: Does it improve my current processes of storage or backup/recovery?
• #4: Quality: Is it technically sound, well-designed and well-made for its purpose?
• #5: Support: Is it likely to have some reasonable degree of continuing support?
• #6: Reliability: Can I trust the provider to be delivering something of reasonable quality and that he will not rip me off (i.e., make a victim of the customer)?
• #7a: Use - Ergonomics (and efficiency): Does it at least meet my current ergonomic requirements?
• #7b: Use - Control: Will I have full, free and unencumbered control over the technology, to use as I need/please?
• #8: Cost: What is the cost, and does it seem reasonable?
• #9: Change: Will the use of the technology effect/necessitate a change for the better in the way I do things?
• #10: Deficiencies: How is it deficient in light of the above criteria, or in any other way?
• #11: Trade-off/compromise: What deficiencies are worth accepting in order to realise the improvements/benefits of using this technology?
  

[IainB]

Wow. Amazon seem to be really into this market, boots and all.
Amazon to Congress: No, Silk won't invade people's privacy

Yeah, right.