Author Topic: SpiderOak - very nice people =) (Read 58147 times)

Armando · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:05 PM »

Dropbox doesn't have this problem. I just tried again and spideroak uploads the whole 300mb every single time, dropbox only a few MB.

I was hoping to completely (and easily) switch to spideroak but it's going to be more complicated than I want it to... Argh. Technology.

rarrrrrr · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:46 PM »

...actually SpiderOak does incremental diff of the file if the old and new version have similarity (however it doesn't make this obvious in the UI, but that's what it's doing behind the scenes.) SpiderOak was originally based on an extension to the rsync algorithm, so handles this pretty well.

Armando · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2011, 11:26 PM »

jgpaiva (or other cryptography experts...) : as you probably know, RC4 is a stream cipher^w and no block cipher. However... could it cause the same problem as a block cipher?

Armando · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2011, 11:33 PM »

...actually SpiderOak does incremental diff of the file if the old and new version have similarity (however it doesn't make this obvious in the UI, but that's what it's doing behind the scenes.) SpiderOak was originally based on an extension to the rsync algorithm, so handles this pretty well.
-rarrrrrr (April 17, 2011, 10:46 PM)

Sorry ! I didn't see your post.

Thanks for joining the discussion. Aren't you one of spideroak founders ? I think I recognize your pseudo.

As you probably read, I wonder why my DB is re-uploaded each time it's backed up (i.e. : I periodically send the DB to a folder monitored by spideroak -- the DB is RC4 encrypted). I understand the UI doesn't mirror everything happening behind the scene. But I can definitely see the amount of uploaded data each time.

tomos · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:16 AM »

As you probably read, I wonder why my DB is re-uploaded each time it's backed up (i.e. : I periodically send the DB to a folder monitored by spideroak -- the DB is RC4 encrypted). I understand the UI doesn't mirror everything happening behind the scene. But I can definitely see the amount of uploaded data each time.
-Armando (April 17, 2011, 11:33 PM)

Thanks for pointing this out Armando - I seem to have the same problem. My 1.5GB of backups has turned into 4GB+ over a period of a couple of days so I'm presuming this is the problem (InfoQube database, encrypted, 50 copies of it showing on SpiderOak).

> But I can definitely see the amount of uploaded data each time.
how do you see/check this?

Armando · « **Reply #30 on:** April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM »

Hi Tom

Yes, I am speaking of my IQ DB (but also know that Access is better known so... greater chances of getting feedback).

>how do you see/check this?

Well:
1- on the status tab, overview option/button.
Everytime I backup my DB to the spideroak watched folder, the storage bar adds 300mb to the total. And it never goes down.

2- The "Queue" tab mirrors that : it shows a succession of queued 300MB files

3- My Comodo firewall shows how much data has been transferred by spideroak.

Now, I'd really like to use Spideroak... But I don't have enough time to tinker with that these days. I already used the command line to try to clear the queue etc., but that didn't help.

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.

rarrrrrr said that "SpiderOak was originally based on an extension to the rsync algorithm" and I haven't checked what Dropbox uses.

Eventually I might try to find a way to encrypt my IQ DB with some other cipher. But then I'd also have to check which ones are compatible with Spideroak. Maybe rarrrrrr could tell us ?

f0dder · « **Reply #31 on:** April 18, 2011, 01:02 PM »

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.
-Armando (April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM)

That, or DropBox uses special handling for certain files, including access databases?

tomos · « **Reply #32 on:** April 18, 2011, 01:23 PM »

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.
-Armando (April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM)
That, or DropBox uses special handling for certain files, including access databases?
-f0dder (April 18, 2011, 01:02 PM)

FWIW:
Dropbox was unable to backup my database until it was closed -
SpiderOak is able to back it up while it's open

Armando · « **Reply #33 on:** April 18, 2011, 01:31 PM »

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.
-Armando (April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM)
That, or DropBox uses special handling for certain files, including access databases?
-f0dder (April 18, 2011, 01:02 PM)
FWIW:
Dropbox was unable to backup my database until it was closed -
SpiderOak is able to back it up while it's open
-tomos (April 18, 2011, 01:23 PM)

That's true though. I didn't mention it because i always first backup my DB to another folder as I like to have a separated backup place with a different file name for my backup (IQ automated backup does that for you). So, in my case, the file is never opened.

Spideroak might use the volume shadow copy service ?

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.
-Armando (April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM)
That, or DropBox uses special handling for certain files, including access databases?
-f0dder (April 18, 2011, 01:02 PM)

Yes, that could be it too.

But I still need to find the best compromise.

wraith808 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 18, 2011, 01:56 PM »

My current solution will be to stick with dropbox until this is fixed -- I don't have this problem with dropbox, as I said. They must use a different delta backup algorithm.
-Armando (April 18, 2011, 12:49 PM)
That, or DropBox uses special handling for certain files, including access databases?
-f0dder (April 18, 2011, 01:02 PM)

FWIW:
Dropbox was unable to backup my database until it was closed -
SpiderOak is able to back it up while it's open
-tomos (April 18, 2011, 01:23 PM)

I'm pretty sure that dropbox used to be able to do this- they changed the behaviour because of corrupted files b/c of the file being open.

tomos · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:26 PM »

I notice I'm not able to remove older backedup revisions of a file - so I had to remove the database file completely from the SpiderOak backup
(which deleted 3GB space!)

Armando · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:57 PM »

Strange... But I've had similar problems and had to use the command line to modify the queue.

Normally, 1-in the "view" tab, 2-click on a file, 3-then click on its version in the right "historical versions" pane, 4-then click on the red cross button ("remove").
I admit it's not super intuitive though... Am additional right click option with a simple "remove from history" would be more intuitive IMO.

Armando · « **Reply #37 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:58 PM »

I notice I'm not able to remove older backedup revisions of a file - so I had to remove the database file completely from the SpiderOak backup
(which deleted 3GB space!)
-tomos (April 19, 2011, 12:26 PM)

I'm curious... How do you plan to solve this uploading/backup issue (same as mine, basically) ?

tomos · « **Reply #38 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:15 PM »

I notice I'm not able to remove older backedup revisions of a file - so I had to remove the database file completely from the SpiderOak backup
(which deleted 3GB space!)
-tomos (April 19, 2011, 12:26 PM)

I'm curious... How do you plan to solve this uploading/backup issue (same as mine, basically) ?
-Armando (April 19, 2011, 12:58 PM)

I dont really know... I do plan to contact SpiderOak, but I busy this week, so it will have to wait a little.

I like to keep at least one backup online, I can probably set one up one with Super Flexible File Synchronizer & Amazon S3.

Armando · « **Reply #39 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:42 PM »

Thanks. Yes, I should contact them to. But I'd be surprised if they weren't already aware of the problem.

CleverCat · « **Reply #40 on:** April 23, 2011, 03:42 AM »

You can delete historical versions of files by doing the following:

In the SpiderOak client under the 'View' tab, you can view all of the documents you have uploaded to SpiderOak. Documents which have historical versions saved will be followed by a number in parentheses which indicates how many historical versions SpiderOak has saved. They will look like this: file.doc (3) To delete any of these historical versions, click on the file, and SpiderOak will open another window to the right showing you all of your historical versions, the date they were saved, and their size. Simply select any of these files and then click the 'Remove' button to remove them from your account. (To select multiple files, just hold down the Control key and click which files you'd like to remove.)

You can also purge all your current historical versions from the commandline by running the following command:

On Mac:

Completely close SpiderOak, and be sure that all SpiderOak processes have closed correctly. Open Applications, then open the Utilities folder. From here, open the “Terminal”, and you will see an open window with a prompt at the bottom. In the prompt, please type:

/Applications/SpiderOak.app/Contents/MacOS/SpiderOak --purge-historical-versions=ALL

With SpiderOak 9713, you can prevent historical versions from being backed up by going to 'Preferences' in the client and under the 'Back Up' tab check the box that says 'Don't archive folders older than' and then enter your preference.

Hope this helps...

tomos · « **Reply #41 on:** April 23, 2011, 07:16 AM »

thanks for those tips CleverCat

The UI is very confusing here:

under the 'View' tab, you can view all of the documents you have uploaded to SpiderOak. Documents which have historical versions saved will be followed by a number in parentheses which indicates how many historical versions SpiderOak has saved. They will look like this: file.doc (3) To delete any of these historical versions, click on the file, and SpiderOak will open another window to the right showing you all of your historical versions, the date they were saved, and their size. Simply select any of these files and then click the 'Remove' button to remove them from your account. (To select multiple files, just hold down the Control key and click which files you'd like to remove.)

The way it's phrased (in the message-box shown on clicking delete - see below), is confusing - it talks about the file/folder as opposed to the revision, so I thought it was not connected - but now I know

With SpiderOak 9713, you can prevent historical versions from being backed up by going to 'Preferences' in the client and under the 'Back Up' tab check the box that says 'Don't archive folders older than' and then enter your preference.

in my version 3.7.9781, the option is "Don't backup files older than:[ ][hours/days/etc]"
again, I'm not sure what exactly this means -
e.g. if I choose 3 days, does that mean it will keep revisions of a file for a period of three days prior to the last modified date of the file,
or, is it going to delete -or refuse to backup- everything older than 3 days, or...

I guess I should be asking these questions of SpiderOak but I'll throw them out here first...

Jibz · « **Reply #42 on:** May 08, 2011, 05:54 AM »

I am trying out SpiderOak at the moment with the free 2 GB account, and I think there are a lot of things to like about it.

I love the zero-knowledge policy. Being able to encrypt the data on your machine with your own key before it gets sent to the server was one of my reasons for choosing CrashPlan, so I am happy to see this in SpiderOak as well.

I am not sure it's entirely fair to compare SpiderOak to DropBox. DropBox focuses on easily sharing a single folder across multiple machines, whereas SpiderOak (and SugerSync for that matter) are somewhere in between DropBox and backup services like CrashPlan.

DropBox is so easy to use that anybody can figure it out, but you pay for that simplicity with less security and flexibility. SpiderOak can provide syncing as well, but having to first back up the folders on each machine and then setup a sync between them is just way more complicated.

It has decent support for working as a backup solution as well, but lacks stuff like being able to run when idle, scheduled backups, running as a service, backing up more than the current users data, etc. that you get with a dedicated backup solution like CrashPlan.

SpiderOak seems to be based on some really good ideas, and with a little more work it could end up being a great replacement for both types of applications -- if they added something like the "Magic Briefcase" from SugerSync to give people an easy initial sync folder, and decent idle/time scheduling like CrashPlan

.

On a side note, I think they should consider making a small tray application to show some basic info and allow you to launch the full GUI, because while the backup engine is only using around 30 MB of memory here at the moment, the GUI uses 70 MB minimized to the tray doing nothing.

CleverCat · « **Reply #43 on:** May 09, 2011, 02:14 AM »

You can schedule backups under Preferences/Schedule.

Jibz · « **Reply #44 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:56 AM »

Thanks, no mention of that in the FAQ or user manual even though apparently it's been there since 2009:

https://spideroak.co...cheduling_when_idle/

https://spideroak.com/manual/preferences

At least it's in the application

.

CleverCat · « **Reply #45 on:** May 16, 2011, 01:38 AM »

I only found it by fishing around in the application...

Armando · « **Reply #46 on:** May 16, 2011, 12:37 PM »

I mainly use spideroak/dropbox to
1- Access/retrieve files from any internet-connected device.
2- Share folders
3- Preserve historical versions & deleted files
I don't really care too much about the syncing between computers at this point.

While it generally works well, except for some encryption formats (see other comments earlier) Spideroak is slower than Dropbox. (And, yes, it's probably not entirely fair to compare all options both offer... But in this case I think it is : I use Spideroak for what it should do best and I compare it to what Dropbox does very well too -- in terms of functionality, not security, of course.)

I don't want to stick with a company that doesn't tell the truth (i.e. : Dropbox), but... I can't fully switch to Spideroak yet if uploading a 20k file and being able to access it through my handheld sometimes takes more than 5 min (between the time the file is changed and the time it's finally accessible on my handheld).

Anybody else is seeing that kind of slowness ? With Dropbox, it's almost instantaneous.

Jibz · « **Reply #47 on:** May 17, 2011, 03:27 AM »

I don't want to stick with a company that doesn't tell the truth (i.e. : Dropbox), but... I can't fully switch to Spideroak yet if uploading a 20k file and being able to access it through my handheld sometimes takes more than 5 min (between the time the file is changed and the time it's finally accessible on my handheld).

Anybody else is seeing that kind of slowness ? With Dropbox, it's almost instantaneous.
-Armando (May 16, 2011, 12:37 PM)

The upload speeds have varied a lot for me. The other day I backed up 500 MB to SO and that took an entire afternoon which was abysmal. The network health bar was in the low end the entire time. Today 13 small files had changed, and the 5 MB upload took ~1 minute, and after that it was stuck on "finalizing" the upload for 50 minutes -- I guess the servers were not responding.

I really like SO and many of the design choices they have made. And the contact I have had with their support people has been great -- you actually get a human response from a qualified person who reads what you wrote (I know that should be the norm, but sadly that is a pleasant surprise these days). So I agree with the topic of this thread, they do seem to be very nice people

.

It just somehow feels more rough around the edges when you compare it to CrashPlan as a backup service or DropBox/SugarSync as a share/sync service.

Btw, totally offtopic, anyone tried Wuala?

Armando · « **Reply #48 on:** May 17, 2011, 08:23 AM »

Thanks Jibz.

and after that it was stuck on "finalizing" the upload for 50 minutes -- I guess the servers were not responding.

Exactly my experience.

And... we all know that it's always when one needs access to one's data now that everything slows down...

Btw, totally offtopic, anyone tried Wuala?

I was actually considering wuala too -- looks like another nice alternative. Unfortunately, not enough time to test this one -- at least not for the next 2 weeks.

phitsc · « **Reply #49 on:** May 17, 2011, 08:40 AM »

I'm still looking for a secure online backup service offering a client that runs on one of the current NASes. I've asked SpiderOak support if their Linux client would work on a QNAP or Synology NAS but unfortunately the answer was no (I guess that means someone would just have to try).