Author Topic: Five Reasons Why People Hate Apple (Read 76333 times)

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #100 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:48 PM »

I got stuck the last few weeks working on one of our Intranet sites coded in ASP (e.g. VB), and it just makes me want to scream every time I have to deal with it.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 11:50 AM)

ASP sucked. It's no wonder MS gave up on it almost a decade ago now~!
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 12:04 PM)

Actually, I left out the best part ... It's an ASP UI, with an Access db back-end. One of the reports that pulled from a table with 50,000 records in it, was parsing the results at the page level ... Which I assumed had much to do with its 3 minute page load time.

I got it down to about 4 seconds now (with a much (more precise) finer tuned query).

Renegade · « **Reply #101 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:51 PM »

I got stuck the last few weeks working on one of our Intranet sites coded in ASP (e.g. VB), and it just makes me want to scream every time I have to deal with it.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 11:50 AM)

ASP sucked. It's no wonder MS gave up on it almost a decade ago now~!
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 12:04 PM)

Actually, I left out the best part ... It's an ASP UI, with an Access db back-end. One of the reports that pulled from a table with 50,000 records in it, was parsing the results at the page level ... Which I assumed had much to do with its 3 minute page load time.

I got it down to about 4 seconds now (with a much (more precise) finer tuned query).
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:48 PM)

WTF? Why hasn't it been redone by now? Is it THAT big?

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #102 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:53 PM »

If you ~~are old, don't care to learn~~ just want to use something and it work, apple is for you.
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 12:37 PM)

God, Grant me the serinity...

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #103 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:59 PM »

I got stuck the last few weeks working on one of our Intranet sites coded in ASP (e.g. VB), and it just makes me want to scream every time I have to deal with it.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 11:50 AM)

ASP sucked. It's no wonder MS gave up on it almost a decade ago now~!
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 12:04 PM)

Actually, I left out the best part ... It's an ASP UI, with an Access db back-end. One of the reports that pulled from a table with 50,000 records in it, was parsing the results at the page level ... Which I assumed had much to do with its 3 minute page load time.

I got it down to about 4 seconds now (with a much (more precise) finer tuned query).
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:48 PM)

WTF? Why hasn't it been redone by now? Is it THAT big?
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 12:51 PM)

No, but my todo list is. Our IT department consists of only one monkey...Me.

The folks that use the report have some of the oldest machines, so it was assumed ... and never mentioned, until I got a request for some new features for the site. Ha! ...That went well.

Renegade · « **Reply #104 on:** May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM »

No, but my todo list is. Our IT department consists of only one monkey...Me.

The folks that use the report have some of the oldest machines, so it was assumed ... and never mentioned, until I got a request for some new features for the site. Ha! ...That went well.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:59 PM)

50k???

Access???

New features???

WTF???

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #105 on:** May 01, 2011, 01:27 PM »

No, but my todo list is. Our IT department consists of only one monkey...Me.

The folks that use the report have some of the oldest machines, so it was assumed ... and never mentioned, until I got a request for some new features for the site. Ha! ...That went well.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:59 PM)

50k???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)

5 years of records and counting.

Access???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)

Totally not my idea...

New features???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)

Yes, management is like that.

WTF???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)

Exactly... Welcome to my world.

Renegade · « **Reply #106 on:** May 01, 2011, 01:29 PM »

No, but my todo list is. Our IT department consists of only one monkey...Me.

The folks that use the report have some of the oldest machines, so it was assumed ... and never mentioned, until I got a request for some new features for the site. Ha! ...That went well.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:59 PM)

50k???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)
5 years of records and counting.

Access???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)
Totally not my idea...

New features???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)
Yes, management is like that.

WTF???
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:19 PM)

Exactly... Welcome to my world.
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 01:27 PM)

To quote Jack from LOST, "Are you insane?"

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #107 on:** May 01, 2011, 01:56 PM »

To quote Jack from LOST, "Are you insane?"
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:29 PM)

While debatable it's really not the central point...

...I'm just dealing with what I had (was given) to start with (Personally I much prefer the PHP/MySQL combo). It's a "Production System" with no latitude for downtime. So... A complete conversion was/is just not in the cards at this point. However I may try it later, time permitting. Hopefully before it takes its (Access + large record set = boom) inevitably complete shit.

Kamel · « **Reply #108 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:18 PM »

If you ~~are old, don't care to learn~~ just want to use something and it work, apple is for you.
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 12:37 PM)

God, Grant me the serinity...
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:53 PM)

You must only meet one of the criteria, not all. Not saying apple is only for old people, but am saying old people should only use apple

EDIT: ESPECIALLY if you're an old person calling me for help fixing your internet

Renegade · « **Reply #109 on:** May 01, 2011, 11:18 PM »

To quote Jack from LOST, "Are you insane?"
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:29 PM)

While debatable it's really not the central point...
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 01:56 PM)

No no no. Not your sanity - the sanity of using Access... That must be very not fun.

It makes me wonder if there is any way to "trick" the system into thinking that it's using Access but actually have a different RDBMS there. Then it would be possible to swap it out.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #110 on:** May 02, 2011, 07:05 AM »

To quote Jack from LOST, "Are you insane?"
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 01:29 PM)

While debatable it's really not the central point...
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 01:56 PM)

No no no. Not your sanity - the sanity of using Access... That must be very not fun.
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 11:18 PM)

Well, that was my second choice on how to take the comment. But I thought the first one was funnier, so I went with it...

...But yes it's been about as much fun as being roasted alive.

It makes me wonder if there is any way to "trick" the system into thinking that it's using Access but actually have a different RDBMS there. Then it would be possible to swap it out.
-Renegade (May 01, 2011, 11:18 PM)

Sure, it's (a web site) just a bunch of page scripts and an mdb file. The problem is it's a production system and there currently just isn't the time available to risk borking the whole thing if I happen to (miss a db trigger event, etc.) get something wrong.

Sure the SQL syntax is close enough that I could probably just recreate the db and update the connection string to target a MySQL db, and then import the data. But if anything went wrong ... I'd be married to the thing for a string of all nighters trying to stitch the data back together. Sure eventually it will have to be done ... But for here and now, it's (bandaid time) triage only.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #111 on:** May 02, 2011, 07:25 AM »

If you ~~are old, don't care to learn~~ just want to use something and it work, apple is for you.
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 12:37 PM)

God, Grant me the serinity...
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:53 PM)

You must only meet one of the criteria, not all. Not saying apple is only for old people, but am saying old people should only use apple

EDIT: ESPECIALLY if you're an old person calling me for help fixing your internet
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 08:18 PM)

I was actually just trying to dissuade Renegade from saying what I was thinking, as we both tend to see red when the Apple, It just works thing comes up. Because it doesn't. Apple networking is dependent in its own abomination Bonjour, which I have seen break way too many networks with its shenanigan to be coincidence. It's a garbage protocol.

I'd rather try walking an old person through Linux troubleshooting, than do a hands-on network printer setup for a Mac. Because I know from the start that the first one will result in both of us laughing frequently, and the second one will (after much anguish) end badly.

Darwin · « **Reply #112 on:** May 02, 2011, 09:12 AM »

If you ~~are old, don't care to learn~~ just want to use something and it work, apple is for you.
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 12:37 PM)

God, Grant me the serinity...
-Stoic Joker (May 01, 2011, 12:53 PM)

You must only meet one of the criteria, not all. Not saying apple is only for old people, but am saying old people should only use apple

EDIT: ESPECIALLY if you're an old person calling me for help fixing your internet
-Kamel (May 01, 2011, 08:18 PM)

I've set my parents' Macs (orignal iMac running OS 9.2, an iBook running OSX 10.1-10.4 - we kept upgrading OSX - and three iMacs runnings flavours of OSX including the latest with Snow Leopard) and have met with the same sorts of issues that I have setting up Windows machines over the years. Worst offenders have been printers and scanners, but I've also had trouble with networking, and miscellaneous difficulties with software configurations.

I find the notion that Apple products "just work" laughable...

Shades · « **Reply #113 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:07 PM »

I saw the option in the 'Oracle SQL Developer' to connect to Access database and there is a transfer option to move data between databases. Depending on the complexity it should not take that much time.

Then again, I understand you are married to MS-SQL and I do not have too much experience with that one to say anything useful about its management tools.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #114 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:37 PM »

I understand you are married to MS-SQL
-Shades (May 02, 2011, 01:07 PM)

I am? Sounds like one of those bad night in Vegas movies ... When did I get married? I'm not adverse to MSSQL, but for something like this I'd generally go with MySQL (which may have been unclear earlier). Either way the object is to get (run) away (screaming) from Access (which the project is currently married to) unless using a dinky record set that would fit comfortably on a (Excel) spread sheet.

I've never dealt with Oracle, but anything resembling an automated (generic) transfer tends to make me nervous.

Renegade · « **Reply #115 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:45 PM »

I've never dealt with Oracle, but anything resembling an automated (generic) transfer tends to make me nervous.
-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 01:37 PM)

I used to use DTS all the time, and it worked well in MS SQL Server. You had to get your settings right, but it worked ok. Test of course, but still good.

I used a program one time to migrate and MS SQL Server database to MySQL -- worked without a hitch.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #116 on:** May 02, 2011, 03:19 PM »

I've never dealt with Oracle, but anything resembling an automated (generic) transfer tends to make me nervous.
-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 01:37 PM)

I used to use DTS all the time, and it worked well in MS SQL Server. You had to get your settings right, but it worked ok. Test of course, but still good.

I used a program one time to migrate and MS SQL Server database to MySQL -- worked without a hitch.
-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 01:45 PM)

This I will keep in mind.

------------------------------------------------

Scampering back onto the original topic.

Apple Sucks!

Renegade · « **Reply #117 on:** May 02, 2011, 07:57 PM »

Scampering back onto the original topic.

Apple Sucks!

-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 03:19 PM)

Hahahaha~!

But does Apple suck more than Access... Hmmm... Hard call...

Kamel · « **Reply #118 on:** May 02, 2011, 08:04 PM »

You forget a vital ingredient, old people or people who just dont want to have to deal with crap dont have networks

If your old people do, you haven't trained them right.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #119 on:** May 02, 2011, 10:32 PM »

You forget a vital ingredient, old people or people who just don't want to have to deal with crap don't have networks

If your old people do, you haven't trained them right.
-Kamel (May 02, 2011, 08:04 PM)

Really? I frequently run into this rather unique misconception. People in small offices that are hesitant to buy a network printer, because they "Don't have" a "network". Do the 4 machines in your office share an internet connection? Yes? Then you have a network.

Do the old folks with one computer and a DSL connection have a "Network"? Damn straight they do! It's just a really small one. But they still gotta make that first hop across the LAN side cable now don't they?

So if Bonjour decides to Bork name resolution because it's just so Mac-tastic and it wants to (read insists on) drive ... Well they're screwed. Because now you get to chase down an intermittent outage issue caused by a renegade protocol.

Renegade · « **Reply #120 on:** May 02, 2011, 10:42 PM »

Because now you get to chase down an intermittent outage issue caused by a renegade protocol.
-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 10:32 PM)

Hey! I resemble that~!

Darwin · « **Reply #121 on:** May 02, 2011, 10:56 PM »

Heh, heh - that comment about networking resonates - my mum's friend, who is 71, went to buy a printer but was turned off because it was wireless and she doesn't have wireless... Doh! I've been trying to get her to replace her ancient HP inkjet for YEARS because troubleshooting its issues with OSX have been driving me crazy... Sigh

Darwin · « **Reply #122 on:** May 03, 2011, 11:12 AM »

I just came across this post: http://www.thebestpa...et/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

doing a totally unrelated search but thought it *might* resonate here. NB language NSFW or children.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #123 on:** May 03, 2011, 12:02 PM »

Because now you get to chase down an intermittent outage issue caused by a renegade protocol.
-Stoic Joker (May 02, 2011, 10:32 PM)

Hey! I resemble that~!
-Renegade (May 02, 2011, 10:42 PM)

I knew I was going to get nailed for that, but I just couldn't thing of a applicable synonym at that time of night.

Heh, heh - that comment about networking resonates - my mum's friend, who is 71, went to buy a printer but was turned off because it was wireless and she doesn't have wireless... Doh! I've been trying to get her to replace her ancient HP inkjet for YEARS because troubleshooting its issues with OSX have been driving me crazy... Sigh
-Darwin (May 02, 2011, 10:56 PM)

She didn't belive that you can still just use USB (which is required for setting up the WiFi) with the "WiFi" printer? Load the printer with sandpaper and then print a phonebook ... The issue should then solve itself...

I just came across this post: http://www.thebestpa...et/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

doing a totally unrelated search but thought it *might* resonate here. NB language NSFW or children.
-Darwin (May 03, 2011, 11:12 AM)

hehe

Darwin · « **Reply #124 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:55 AM »

She didn't belive that you can still just use USB (which is required for setting up the WiFi) with the "WiFi" printer? Load the printer with sandpaper and then print a phonebook ... The issue should then solve itself...
-Stoic Joker (May 03, 2011, 12:02 PM)

Good one, I might just have to try that!

I could have gone back and killed the salesperson (and rue the fact that I didn't go with my mum's friend into the shop) - I find salespeople these days really ANNOYING. All the old bird wanted was an $80 HP Laserjet and she walked out empty-handed because the salesperson couldn't stop talking up all of the features, including the built-in wireless networking. My mum's friend is technophobic to the point of anxiety, and she concluded that you have to have wi-fi to connect the printer (and not that you have to have USB connectivity to connnect to a wi-fi network). Grr... I ran into an officious little turd of a salesperson like that myself at The Source (a pale version of Radio Shack in Canada) who tried to impress me with his networking chops. All I wanted was a Network Switch. He asked what I wanted to do with it, and after I told him (run 50 feet of cable from my wi-fi router's LAN port under my house to the switch to connect my TV, blu-ray player and xBox to my network), proceeded to tell me that what I wanted to do wouldn't work. He wanted to sell me either a secondary router or some other EXTREMELY expensive contraption. I know that the LAN router would have worked, but that's not the point. I can't stand being fed techo-mumble that serves only to (try to) assert the salesperson's credbility with the customer. Can't remember the details of his argument, but needless to say Futureshop got my business and I've been happily networked for a couple of months now.