Author Topic: A Warning about Thinkall.com (Read 45525 times)

on-disk · « **on:** January 11, 2006, 06:37 PM »

I wanted to see what the 'other-guys' were offering when I saw their Free OpenOffice.org discs adverts every time I saw one of mine.

So I pop up to thinkall.com and order my 'free' discs for the $5 shipping fee.

About 30 days later there was a $40 charge on my card.

Buried at point 7 in the TOS is that if you don't return the 'free' discs within 10 days you'll get their monthly subscription fee. And when I returned the discs after the 10 day period they did not refund your money.

Though I'm out the money, at least I can write it off as a business expense on my taxes.

So please avoid Thinkall.com

Karlie "Thinkall's Sucker" Robinson

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2006, 07:03 PM »

Surely this is pure and simple fraud. Contact the police and you credit card company who should refund you.

Veign · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2006, 08:22 PM »

This is something that should be spread around so people know...

Blogging about it now....

Blog Entry

After further reading their TOS this seems to be a very sketchy thing. You seem to be enrolled in a membership where CD's are sent to you every 5 weeks and credit card charged if not returned in 10days....

kimmchii · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2006, 08:29 PM »

i have sent them an email a link to this post, asking them to come over and explain.

on-disk · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2006, 06:51 AM »

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:    Re: Why did you charge me $39.95
Date:    Mon, 5 Dec 2005 08:46:51 -0500
From:    Think All Publishing Customer Support <[email protected]>
To:    Karlie Robinson <EMAIL_REMOVED>
References:    <@@@@@@>

Dear Karlie,

I see your subscription was canceled on 12/04/2005 01:37:03 PM. You will not
receive any more CDs or charges from Think All Publishing.

I am sorry that you are not happy. When you placed the order, you checked the
box that you agreed to the terms of use. Since you have not canceled during the
trial period and have not returned the CDs, we conveniently charged you credit
card $39.90 per the terms of use you agreed to. If we receive the CDs before
12/12/2005 than we might be able issue you a refund. If you have not already
done so, you can return CDs to:

Return Address:

Think All Publishing LLC
Attn: Returns Dept.
Return #: 1110356
P.O. Box 462009
Garland, TX 75046-2009

You can contact us after 30 days from your order date to see if we have received
your CDs and if we will be able to issue you a refund.

Thank you for trying out our software!

If we can be of further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Our Customer Service associates are available 24 hours a day, seven days
a week and may be reached at 1.800.462.8144.

I hope that helps.

Have a great day!

Michelle
Think All Publishing Customer Service
1-800-462-8144
---------------------------------
Just go to our main website – www.thinkall.com - and look for the Terms of Use
link at the bottom of the page.

-----------------------

BTW, I did return the discs, but "might be able issue you a refund" means don't hold your breath

[mouser: i removed the email address for reasons described in the thread]

Veign · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2006, 10:00 AM »

I like the part where they conveniently charged your credit card. It was very convenient for you wasn't it...

mouser · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2006, 10:16 AM »

even though this is presumably public information, i'd like for us to refrain from posting other people's email addresses if possible - agreed?

Veign · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2006, 10:29 AM »

Probably should edit those email addresses out - Spam is a coming...

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2006, 11:20 AM »

I think you should have left them in for their convenience

vegas · « **Reply #9 on:** January 12, 2006, 01:00 PM »

lol, exactly what i was thinking. the first one anyways.

jim1763 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 06, 2006, 08:27 PM »

hi have been caught with thinkall .com to can you PLEASE tell me how i can stop them from taking any more money from my account .

mouser · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2006, 08:34 PM »

jim,
call them and email them immediately to tell them to cancel your account!
Think All Publishing Customer Service
1-800-462-8144
[email protected]

f0dder · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2006, 03:19 AM »

Sounds like a very sketchy company. As if most people read those TOS'es. Bastards!

Deozaan · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2006, 01:33 AM »

I didn't notice this thread until just now (I keep trying to tell you that the Unread Messages link isn't working properly) so I typed all this up and didn't want it to go to waste, so I'm posting anyway.

I just tried it out myself (except for entering in credit card information) and nowhere does it say anything about the subscription. There isn't even a clear and easily visible link to the TOS throughout the ordering process. Where it has the checkbox to say you've agreed, no link to TOS even there. You have to go to the bottom of the page (I have to scroll down at 1280x1024 with a maximized window with minimal toolbars) and click on the TOS.

Very shady practice.

What kind of software is on those CDs? ThinkAll brand? They all have such generic names, and it looks like some of them are freeware anyway, like Thunderbird E-mail, GIMP image editing, and OpenOffice.

Does the Internet BBB actually do anything? Is it worth reporting these guys?

Another interesting thing I noticed is that all of the navigational links at the top of the page do not work on the final page where it asks for your credit card number. They do not want you leaving that page.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2006, 04:57 AM »

Given that they are located in the US have you thought of reporting the situation to credit card companies?

They must allow them to accept credit card orders and will not be happy with this short of sharp practice. You may at least get there credit card ordering system taken down. Similarly with PayPal - it might be worth checking it out.

As you say there are no links working on the credit card page at all (except for hacker safe and the two at the bottom!). I went through the process (except for entering CC details) and wasn't asked to agree to anything other than tick the small box under the credit card details. This is out and out fraud as far as I can see and breaks all the guidelines credit card companies issue on clear pricing.

There is also a plain lie on the final page "We ship UPS" - there is no way they can ship to the UK by UPS for $2.95 (or even a month's 'subscription' fee).

By the way if anyone fancies complaining the details are:

Tel: +1.4252740657
Fax: +1.4256960234
PMB 368, 14150 NE 20th St - F1
C/O thinkall.com
Bellevue, WA 98007
US

Maybe we should all send them a fax (that would make them think).

Deozaan · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2006, 11:34 PM »

I wonder what it would be like to DOS attack a fax machine. Not that I'm suggesting it or anything. . .

ljbirns · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2006, 06:52 PM »

The first thing to do is to repudiate the charge with your credit card company.

The credit card company will fight on your behalf andthey will probably not push to hard.

Lew

mickeyone · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2006, 03:58 PM »

1. All of the software that ThinkAll.com offers is essentially freeware and, therefore available for free at various sites! This includes OpenOffice.org which is available at SUN systems.
2. You can foil ThinkAll.com simply by reporting your credit card as stolen to the credit card company.
3. I complained directly to ThinkAll.com by e-mail and, they did back off. Once they are understand that you are aware that they are operating an internet scam by distributing freeware and, then charging a fee, they will probably get cold feet and, relent to your demands.
Regards, Mickeyone

Veign · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2006, 04:09 PM »

By the way if anyone fancies complaining the details are:

Tel: +1.4252740657
Fax: +1.4256960234
PMB 368, 14150 NE 20th St - F1
C/O thinkall.com
Bellevue, WA 98007
US
-Carol Haynes (June 08, 2006, 04:57 AM)

That's not their address, its a proxy address for registering the domain. See my blog post for all the information about thinkall, including the actual address.

They are out of Plano, TX USA

murali · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2006, 02:55 PM »

I feel so cheated after realizing that I just paid $50 for some free audio editing software. It is common practice to buy stuff from internet, but these guys would cheat by auto enrolling for some crap software . Who wants to go for recursive subscription forking out 50$ for some copied/crappy software. Wonder how these guys are still surviving cheating of consumers and nobody taking any action. They should be ashamed of their business model, afterall the name suggests "thinkall - meaning think before u buy from us". Anyway I have cancelled my so called membership and I would anyway watchout for CD's in mail. It makes so much sense now a days to go to store and buy or buy from reputed ones like amazon.

STAY AWAY FROM THINK ALL for sure

jesslambio · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2006, 05:45 PM »

I am the most recent victim of thinkall.

i called several times and they also said i can't get a refund for the cds that i did not return in time (that i didn't know i had to return at all). i checked the site again and found out that when you finalize your order you were not prompted to read the terms of service, there was just a tiny box that you needed to check without any link to the terms. so this could easily mislead anyone into checking the box without reading the terms which i also just found out is in number 7 of the terms of use hiding below the web page.

i called my bank and filed a claim. i'm glad i found this forum which might help me to get my money back. (plus i got an overdraft because of it).

and one more thing, one of the cds i got, the "animation studio", is blender- a free program you can download from blender.org. and the video editing cd i got is a lame program called virtualdub.

my sister was right, there is no free lunch in america. so don't be deceived into getting this cds.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2006, 06:00 PM »

Can I recommend that you contact the authors of the software you received from Thinkall.com

Most software (even freeware) explicitly forbids distribution for profit and so Thinkall.com are probably breaking the rights of the authors. By getting software writers to explicitly forbid the distribution by Thinkall.com may be a good way to put them out of 'business'.

jesslambio · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2006, 07:04 PM »

i couldn't find anyone to contact about blender, but i wrote to a TV station.

here's a copy of the letter:

i want to report about a website called www.thinkall.com, they sell cds and they have a promo where you choose one free cd and you get 3 more free and you only pay for shipping. i thought" this is cool" and so i ordered. i got my cds on June 28th, i think, and just today i received a letter from wells fargo of a charge from thinkall for 49.00 for the cds. my bank didnt have funds at that time so i also got an overdraft. i didnt know what the charge was for until i called thinkall( 1800-462-8144) and they said that the 2 cds were for a 10-day trial and if i didnt return it, the price is 24.95 each. i was thinking, how could that be, so i checked the site again and found out that when you finalize your order, there was a box you needed to check saying " i have read and accept the terms of this offer". it didnt prompt you to read the terms of service before you finalize your order and there was no link to the terms of service. it turns out that the terms of use is found below the page when you scroll down. ok so i made a mistake, but i thought that it was misleading so i did a search and sure enough, i found a forum warning people about thinkall (https://www.donation...dex.php?topic=2083.0). it turns out that i was right, a lot of people were mislead by their ordering process.

i also found this review by the better business bureau- http://www.dallas.bb...rt.html?bid=90024470

but what concerns me the most is that when i tried one of the cds, the "animation studio", it was blender, a free program you can download at www.blender.org
another link to it saying its free: http://www.blender.o...neral.196.0.html#487

and on their site they claimed that the retail price is 79.00 ( i attached a screen of the page). and on the forum, somebody said that all the other cds they are selling are freeware or crappy programs.

so i think this is just wrong. i don't know if someone is already doing something about it, but i wrote this just in case. i hope that they are stopped if what they are doing is wrong.

thank you and more power

let me know what you think of this letter.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:37 AM »

Do you have consumer 'watchdog' type TV programmes in the US? (We do in the UK).

The way to attack this is for everyone to write to the same programme with their complaint - weight of numbers helps to get a response. Perhaps there needs to be a bit of coordination via this site but also get the word out to the freeware forums etc. and usenet groups who are likely to be quite proactive about complaining about this sort of thing.

mouser · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2006, 06:56 AM »

welcome to the our site jesslambio, kick off your shoes and relax a bit here safe from the scams outside