Author Topic: Vista suffering from FUD? (Read 22190 times)

Edvard · « **on:** September 05, 2008, 12:07 PM »

Usually over at the LinuxFUD blog, the tactics of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt over Linux are dissected and left pinned to the examination tray, but this time he's looking at FUD from the other side of the hill...

Fear.
...IE8 is drawing criticism from advertisers that claim that the enhanced privacy feature “InPrivate” could seriously affect advertising revenues that ultimately fund many (”free”) Web services. This could have a ripple-effect on the economy, some say...
Uncertainty.
...The [mentioned article] goes on to note that both Microsoft’s market share and raw customer base are at stake, and that the next release of Windows will be pivotal to retaining both...
Doubt.
Reportedly, Seinfeld will become the new spokesman for Microsoft, a move that some view as a risky measure...Fitting that his “much ado about nothing” shtick will probably be leveraged to resurrect Vista sales...

http://linuxfud.word...008/08/26/vista-fud/

Vista's been out for some time now, the hype has settled down, and I know we've got some Vista users on this forum.
What is your assessment of Vista and it's future as it affects you personally?

jgpaiva · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2008, 12:34 PM »

Honestly, I don't think that blog post acomplishes anything other providing more pointers (and thus contributing) to the mentioned vista FUD. (but I guess that was the whole idea, right?)
Also, anyone who has as moto "Microsoft can go format themselves" obviously doesn't really have an idea of how the world works.

Honestly, I've been running Vista64 for quite some time now, and I haven't had any of the multiple problems I've seen reported everywhere with XP64.
There's no doubt that it takes more resources, but my computer also is the best computer I've owned, and I really like the few new stuff it gets me (including the oh-so-contested aero interface).

I don't regret moving to Vista64, and I sure recommend it to anyone with over 3GB of ram.

Beth UK · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2008, 12:39 PM »

Honestly, I've been running Vista64 for quite some time now, and I haven't had any of the multiple problems I've seen reported everywhere with XP64

Absolutely. Same here!

Darwin · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2008, 12:48 PM »

I've been running Vista 32 on a new notebook for over a month - no issues. Even the UAC doesn't bother me that much. I mean, I shake my head over the decision NOT to allow users to select something like "Don't warn me about the program/action again" but I can live with it...

timns · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:02 PM »

I've been "committed" to Vista for a couple of months now. The main lesson I have learned is UPDATE THOSE DRIVERS! Just about every issue I have had has been resolved by getting the latest of the latest.

Last problem I am seeing is the network dropping complet

timns · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:02 PM »

ely, and I have to reboot

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:49 PM »

I'm running Vista x86 here at the office on a Dell Dimension E521 Athlon X2 Dual Core 3800+ with 2GB of ram. I keep between 2 & 7 RDP desktops, and 1 or 2 VMs running at all times (part of what I do...).

During an average day I will also have MSVS, Adobe PhotoShop, MS Outlook/Word/Excel/Access open all at the same time, and upwards of 50+ browser windows/tabs open in the process of researching one of the miriad of things I'm asked on any given day.

I have never had any issues while doing this...outside of the occasional minor lagg which is quite understandable given the load I put on the machine.

My Vista x64 machine at home is (much faster then the office machine) constantly under very (read insanely...) heavy loads, and also never misses a beat.

Neither machine is rebooted more than once a month, and both have run upwards of 6 months without a reboot flawlessly.

Granted one is custom built & both are custom loaded...but that only goes to prove that half of the "Bad Press" that Vista has gotten is due to idiots like HP that love to gadget & garbage up a machine to "Add Value" (BS...) to a machine before foisting it on a poor (unsuspecting) consumer.

That and Symantec needs to line up the NIS team in front of a firing squad, and then never do that again. Christ What Were They Thinking?!?!

Edvard · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:52 PM »

Honestly, I don't think that blog post acomplishes anything other providing more pointers (and thus contributing) to the mentioned vista FUD. (but I guess that was the whole idea, right?)
Also, anyone who has as moto "Microsoft can go format themselves" obviously doesn't really have an idea of how the world works.

jgpaiva, I agree that his tagline is definitely anti-Microsoft but to be fair, I have seen much worse (>don't click here!!<), and I doubt that the writer in any way thinks that Microsoft will go slink under a rock anytime soon.

I don't think his points are actually adding to the FUD, but simply pointing out that Linux doesn't have a corner market on it. The tactic known as FUD is deceptive and inflammatory in any context and his perception is that maybe Vista isn't as bad as the headlines make it out to be, due to the nature of the attacks against it.
I tend to agree, and If I ever acquired a 64-bit box I wouldn't be averse to having Vista on it. That I install myself from a physical install disk, of course.

I'm not asking for a comparison to Linux or even to previous versions of Windows.
My question was because, although I won't be using in a personal capacity anytime soon, I'm curious as to whether the Vista experience is (at this point) Microsoft 'business as usual' (install, pull hair out, update drivers, download service pack, grow hair back) and if all the bad press is mostly hot air, or if Microsoft really did drop a stinker, which I am beginning to doubt.

Thanks Stoic Joker, that's exactly the kind of report I was hoping for...

jgpaiva · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:59 PM »

Granted one is custom built & both are custom loaded...but that only goes to prove that half of the "Bad Press" that Vista has gotten is due to idiots like HP that love to gadget & garbage up a machine to "Add Value" (BS...) to a machine before foisting it on a poor (unsuspecting) consumer.
-Stoic Joker (September 05, 2008, 01:49 PM)

Agreed. My dad bought a hp tablet which came loaded with the usual crap. But this specific crap was so anoying that when it tried to save the addresses entered in IE7 (I REALLY can't understand why they'd want to do that), UAC would come up saying that the hp software was performing a dangerous action, etc etc.

mwang · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2008, 02:04 PM »

Honestly, I've been running Vista64 for quite some time now, and I haven't had any of the multiple problems I've seen reported everywhere with XP64.
-jgpaiva (September 05, 2008, 12:34 PM)

I envy you, then. I tried Vista64 soon after it's available to me (i.e., as soon as my school got the site license), but removed it immediately when I learned my Chinese IME didn't work on Vista, 64 or 32 alike. Without it, I can't type Chinese. Before I realized that, some other programs I used didn't work on Vista 64, either.

Now I'm using Vista 32. (The Chinese IME works with Vista 32 now, but still not for 64.) I like it better than XP in general, when it works. But I still hate it when it doesn't work -- when it suddenly decides I'm using an illegal copy and locks me out. (It happened twice here.)

So, I'm going Linux the next time I have a free week to make the switch.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2008, 02:08 PM »

Just forgot something: also, if you have a tablet pc, it has HUGE improvements over XP, it's a breeze to work with.

Darwin · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2008, 02:25 PM »

But I still hate it when it doesn't work -- when it suddenly decides I'm using an illegal copy and locks me out. (It happened twice here.)
-mwang (September 05, 2008, 02:04 PM)

OK - that's scary! Of course, nothing to fear if it can be resolved, but it's ridiculous to think that legitimate users (ie ME! US!) may be locked out of their systems because of flaky copyright protection software. That the end user is considered guilty (and locked out of their own system, I presume) until they prove themselves to be innocent is egregious. I say: M$, go to a single, or at most dual, version distribution (one for servers and the other for the rest of the unwashed masses) and take your cue from Apple WRT pricing: flood the market with $99-$149 copies of Vista that will serve dual duty - upgrading earlier versions to Vista's goodness or creating fresh installs on new harddrives. Drop the activation nonsense. Yes, people will steal copies (hint: even with the antipiracy features in place, they're already "stealing" XP and Vista. Illustration: I know a number of people - all teenagers - who are running pirated copies of XP. None of them to my knowledge has yet had a problem) but most people are honest and will ante up $99 or $149 to get the latest OS. Sit back and watch your profits soar...

OK Rant over (and I really do like Vista

).

Listen! I can hear Zaine aprroaching... gallump, Gallump, GAllump <horse whinnies>, GALlump, GALLump, GALLUmp, GALLUMp...

EDIT: couldn't let the typos go...

Edvard · « **Reply #12 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:02 PM »

Trust me, I'm firmly in Zaine's camp, I'm just trying to be a fair sport. The OS business is obviously a tough one, and I find little joy in seeing the enemy take a sucker punch from behind.

Feels kind of like shouting "Are you guys OK over there?" after the cannon smoke clears...

Just forgot something: also, if you have a tablet pc, it has HUGE improvements over XP, it's a breeze to work with.
-jgpaiva (September 05, 2008, 02:08 PM)

That's what I've heard. Another case where I'd happily accept Vista...

mwang · « **Reply #13 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:30 PM »

OK - that's scary! Of course, nothing to fear if it can be resolved, but it's ridiculous to think that legitimate users (ie ME! US!) may be locked out of their systems because of flaky copyright protection software.
-Darwin (September 05, 2008, 02:25 PM)

Flaky indeed, especially with its new KMS licensing mechanism. Basically it requires my computer to check in with a special KMS server every 3 months to be certified. Usually it's done automatically, not a problem. But problems could arise when, e.g.,

1. my notebook was near the 3-month check point when I took it out for a trip, and couldn't get internet connection again before the grace period expired; or

2. I did get internet connection in time, but some firewall craziness prevented it from connecting to the KMS server; or

3. there's no firewall problem, but the KMS server happened to go down; or

4. I did a clean restore from a backup image taken more than 3 months ago.

The last one was what actually happened here, though I never really figured out it's because the imaging was done before the first authentication or because it's done too long ago, or both. It was resolved alright -- by reinstalling everything.

Darwin · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:40 PM »

I'm just trying to be a fair sport. The OS business is obviously a tough one, and I find little joy in seeing the enemy take a sucker punch from behind.

Feels kind of like shouting "Are you guys OK over there?" after the cannon smoke clears...
-Edvard (September 05, 2008, 03:02 PM)

Yes, I feel very conflicted most of the time. I'm making an effort to join the Linux camp but am actually having difficulty getting either Xubuntu or Ubuntu 8.0.4 installed on any of the three machines (8 years, 4 years, and 1 month old) that I have available to me. Actually, I do have a fourth choice: my circa 2001 iBook... Hmmm... hadn't thought of that until I sat here writing this...

Anyway, the point is that I'm upgrading the aforementioned iBook to Tiger (from whatever it is - Jaguar, I think - it's at 10.2.8 at the moment) and have Win2k, WinXP and Vista at my disposal. Although I've dabbled with Linux in the past, I'd really like to become more familiar with it... I think that flexibility is going to be essential in the coming years.

Darwin · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:45 PM »

Flaky indeed, especially with its new KMS licensing mechanism. Basically it requires my computer to check in with a special KMS server every 3 months to be certified.
-mwang (September 05, 2008, 03:30 PM)

]

Is this due to corporate/academic licensing or is this a requirement for all Vista users? If it's the latter, good to know!

mwang · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:51 PM »

Is this due to corporate/academic licensing or is this a requirement for all Vista users? If it's the latter, good to know!
-Darwin (September 05, 2008, 03:45 PM)

I'm not an expert, but I think it's for site licensing only.

Darwin · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:53 PM »

Is this due to corporate/academic licensing or is this a requirement for all Vista users? If it's the latter, good to know!
-Darwin (September 05, 2008, 03:45 PM)

I'm not an expert, but I think it's for site licensing only.
-mwang (September 05, 2008, 03:51 PM)

Ah, thanks. I figured it wasn't a general requirement, otherwise I would have been hearing more about it! Thanks for clarifiying that.

On a peripherally related note, check out Apple's Family Pack licence scheme on OS-X (and take note MS!):

The Family Pack Software License Agreement allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-labeled computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household and used by persons who occupy that household. By 'household' we mean a person or persons who share the same housing unit such as a home, apartment, mobile home, or condominium, including student members who are primary residents of that household but reside at a separate on-campus location. This license does not extend to business or commercial users.

PS the Family Pack is $189 on Amazon

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2008, 03:58 PM »

The KMS licensing requirement was created due to the XP era corporate keys being swapped around faster than a whore at a viking festival.

...and that is the only place they're used/required.

Darwin · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:00 PM »

The KMS licensing requirement was created due to the XP era corporate keys being swapped around faster than a whore at a viking festival.

...and that is the only place they're used/required.
-Stoic Joker (September 05, 2008, 03:58 PM)

Ha, ha, thank you for the chuckle and for clarifying that. Stoic Joker, eh? Well named!

mwang · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:14 PM »

On a peripherally related note, check out Apple's Family Pack licence scheme on OS-X (and take note MS!)
-Darwin (September 05, 2008, 03:53 PM)

Well, I guess they make it up with the profit from hardware, which always sells at a premium over similarly configured PC.

mwang · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:22 PM »

The KMS licensing requirement was created due to the XP era corporate keys being swapped around faster than a whore at a viking festival.
-Stoic Joker (September 05, 2008, 03:58 PM)

Only to see it hacked again while legit users get all the inconveniences. I'm sure they'll invent something new again, and this will go on forever. That's part of the reason why I'm going Linux. They (MS and the pirates) are having so much fun playing Tom and Jerry that I just don't think I belong in the same house.

steeladept · « **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:30 PM »

On a peripherally related note, check out Apple's Family Pack licence scheme on OS-X (and take note MS!)
-Darwin (September 05, 2008, 03:53 PM)

Well, I guess they make it up with the profit from hardware, which always sells at a premium over similarly configured PC.
-mwang (September 05, 2008, 04:14 PM)

Not if you get a Psystar machine.

mwang · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2008, 05:03 PM »

Not if you get a Psystar machine.
-steeladept (September 05, 2008, 04:30 PM)

I don't know how cheap it is; they don't sell it here (Taiwan).

steeladept · « **Reply #24 on:** September 05, 2008, 06:09 PM »

I believe they are mail-order only. Either way, they do have world-wide distribution including Asia according to their web site. I don't know individual countries, however, as they just say "distributors in Asia"....

As for price, they start with OS X Leopard at USD$555. That sounds pretty cheap to me. I am sure that is not including shipping though. http://www.psystar.com/index.php