Author Topic: Cooking my PC: what NOT to do (Read 26483 times)

wreckedcarzz · « **on:** February 16, 2008, 10:27 PM »

My stupidity often overrides my logic. It is just me. It cannot be explained. This is a prefect example of what NOT to do when messing with your CPU.

Back in November, about a week before my birthday (I do the same with Christmas), I went on some sites with my dad's login, and found out what I was getting on my little day. One of them was a Thermaltake Blue Orb II CPU fan I had asked for. Upon opening the box and acting as surprised as possible, I found that the thing was about 1 CM to big for my case (it was a small form factor case, and I didn't take the time to measure it). So waiting another week and after receiving the case, I continued to attempt my new case swap and fan replacement. I spent 4 hours getting 2 little standoffs out of the legs that attached to the motherboard (this made the heatsink + fan too high, not touching the CPU, and thus emitting a siren-like sound upon boot, followed by an emergency system shutdown).

After getting that done, I screwed the heatsink into the slots, and booted it up. Success! It works!

Coming to about 4 hours ago, I was testing my system boot time, and noted that it took longer than usual to boot. I went into the BIOS and changed the hard drive to the primary boot device; but I also decided to take a look at the system fan speeds and temps.

CPU temp 67C

I about wet myself- 67C?!?!?! Thats roughly 153F!

After thinking for about 5 minutes what could be causing the heat problem, I remembered that I, for whatever moronic reason, did not apply thermal grease to the CPU!

I kept it in my drawer of computer supplies, so I pulled it out and got to work disassembling the thing. After 45 minutes of work, I plugged everything back in to find that it would not boot. Another 30 minutes of troubleshooting revealed that if I remove all USB devices, it boots (I have not yet rebooted with them plugged in).

With the new fix, the computer seems to run a little faster and a little cooler, although I am going to stress test it for the next few hours on some of my games.

Moral: Follow instructions- not your stupidity

-Brandon

Darwin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2008, 10:34 PM »

Wow! At least it looks headed for a happy ending, Brandon. From the subject line I had feared the worst! Good thing you caught it in time

[offtopic]

Back in November, about a week before my birthday (I do the same with Christmas), I went on some sites with my dad's login, and found out what I was getting on my little day.
-wreckedcarzz (February 16, 2008, 10:27 PM)

Man, gone are the days when kids used to check under their parents' bed for their Christmas presents! Being a naughty boy has definitely gone high-tech![/offtopic]

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2008, 10:37 PM »

Yes, I got lucky on that one. I just checked, and I am now riding at 49-50C, so definately a major drop. Crysis, anyone?

[offtopic]
Back in November, about a week before my birthday (I do the same with Christmas), I went on some sites with my dad's login, and found out what I was getting on my little day.
-wreckedcarzz (February 16, 2008, 10:27 PM)

Man, gone are the days when kids used to check under their parents' bed for their Christmas presents! Being a naughty boy has definitely gone high-tech![/offtopic]

-Darwin (February 16, 2008, 10:34 PM)

Hehehe, quite the creative one, I am. And they have no idea...

mouser · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2008, 01:35 AM »

when the next generation of kids learns about the insanity of how we used to assemble computers they will not believe it.
few things are as insane. i'm sure everyone who has put together a pc has their own horror stories. my father once crushed a chip by tightening the fan too much. i once blew out a motherboard by putting a jumper accidentally on a set of fan pins. it is just crazy how prone to disaster it can be.

f0dder · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2008, 06:48 AM »

Christ, you're damn lucky you didn't fry your computer, especially since it's a Pentium4 you have - those things get darn hot. For comparison, my Core2Quad Q6600 idles at thirty-something centigrade.

And do stress-test the machine, if you're very unlucky there's a risk you have partially damaged the CPU, like blown part of the cache. If you get any MACHINE CHECK BSODs, time to cry.

Btw, a decent computer case with good airflow means a lot, too, and a couple of 120mm casefans (those are pretty silent) are really great as well, especially having an intake fan cooling your harddrives is a good idea. If you have a sucky cramped case, installing a good CPU cooler is pretty much a waste.

Oh, and your computer isn't running any faster because of the new cooler, that's just placebo. It should be running cooler, though

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2008, 07:09 AM »

What are you using a fan for ... if someone else is paying (thank your dad profusely) why didn't you got for water cooling - now that is cool and quiet! I hope your new case has all the flashing lights and looks super cool - how about a photo?

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:01 PM »

Christ, you're damn lucky you didn't fry your computer, especially since it's a Pentium4 you have - those things get darn hot. For comparison, my Core2Quad Q6600 idles at thirty-something centigrade.

And do stress-test the machine, if you're very unlucky there's a risk you have partially damaged the CPU, like blown part of the cache. If you get any MACHINE CHECK BSODs, time to cry.

Btw, a decent computer case with good airflow means a lot, too, and a couple of 120mm casefans (those are pretty silent) are really great as well, especially having an intake fan cooling your harddrives is a good idea. If you have a sucky cramped case, installing a good CPU cooler is pretty much a waste.

Oh, and your computer isn't running any faster because of the new cooler, that's just placebo. It should be running cooler, though
-f0dder (February 17, 2008, 06:48 AM)

Pentium D, but same difference. And 30C?? Wow.

Yes, I am still testing it- however it seems to be running alright so far, no system problems.

As far as a case goes, I have enough airflow to get a windtunnel going. I have a 150mm front intake fan at the bottom (cold air sinks), my insulated hard drive on top of that with a 120mm fan blowing on that, a 120mm fan cooling my TV tuner card (fan sits on top of PSU), a 150mm exhaust fan, and a 200mm top exhaust fan. All but the front and 2 120mms are set to Low.

What are you using a fan for ... if someone else is paying (thank your dad profusely) why didn't you got for water cooling - now that is cool and quiet! I hope your new case has all the flashing lights and looks super cool - how about a photo?
-Carol Haynes (February 17, 2008, 07:09 AM)

I did, I begged for water cooling. Never got it. I wanted, specifically, the CoolIT Eliminator CPU cooler (http://www.coolitsys...;id=13&Itemid=28) and it is staying on my to-get list until I do get it.

As for lights, yea I do have quite a bit of LEDs...will post a photo in about 10 minutes just for the heck of it

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:18 PM »

OK, here are my oh-so-amazing (not

) images.

First one is my normal setup- yes, I do use a desk pull out drawer thingy for keyboard, mouse, speaker, monitor and USB reciever placement. And yes, it does almost fall on a regular basis. Gets your attention real quick when a monitor is falling on you, though.

(Notice the keyboard is glowing)

Second is PC insides w/ camera flash to show components. The wires look like a mess but the case is roomy and they are all bundled up.

Third is my usual nighttime LED look, where the whole thing glows. Looks great when your owning some people in Halo.

-Brandon

Lashiec · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:26 PM »

Mmmm, that case could use some cable neating work

f0dder · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:30 PM »

Pentium D, but same difference. And 30C?? Wow.
-wreckedcarzz (February 17, 2008, 12:01 PM)

PentiumD == Pentium4, just a different name. Probably because 64-bit support and dualcore were added. But it's the same architecture as P4, which means relatively low performance, compared to the power it drains and the heat it generates.

Well, between 30-40C idle. I should install an app that names the sensors, I don't know which figure is my motherboard/chipset and which is the CPU :p. Under full load, I push the system above 50C, but I don't think I've reached 60C yet. I do undervolt the CPU by the way, to make it drain less power and thus generate less heat - no stability issues so far.

As for your setup, you really need a bigger table, to provide arm rest. Otherwise you're ruining your body... takes a while before you notice it, but when you do, you'll regret it.

And you really should resize those pictures, pretty insane resolution to use on forums

. 800x600 or 1024x768 would be a lot better...

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:34 PM »

Pentium D, but same difference. And 30C?? Wow.
-wreckedcarzz (February 17, 2008, 12:01 PM)
PentiumD == Pentium4, just a different name. Probably because 64-bit support and dualcore were added. But it's the same architecture as P4, which means relatively low performance, compared to the power it drains and the heat it generates.

Well, between 30-40C idle. I should install an app that names the sensors, I don't know which figure is my motherboard/chipset and which is the CPU :p. Under full load, I push the system above 50C, but I don't think I've reached 60C yet. I do undervolt the CPU by the way, to make it drain less power and thus generate less heat - no stability issues so far.

As for your setup, you really need a bigger table, to provide arm rest. Otherwise you're ruining your body... takes a while before you notice it, but when you do, you'll regret it.

And you really should resize those pictures, pretty insane resolution to use on forums . 800x600 or 1024x768 would be a lot better...

-f0dder (February 17, 2008, 12:30 PM)

Ah, didn't know that. Darn Intel...

I would overclock, but my motherboard has the values locked (I was planning on posting here at DC to see if I could get some help on that sometime soon) so I can't.

Yes, I complain all the time that I want a new desk, but it has been 2 months and I still have no desk. Maybe when I can't move my arm anymore we will go and buy one.

And I would resize, but MSPAINT leaves little room for help in that category, and I don't have CS3 on my system atm.

Lashiec · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:40 PM »

CS3 for resizing an image?

In Paint: Picture -> "Expand", and enter some sensible percentages

f0dder · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2008, 12:43 PM »

Get paint dotNET (heh, URL speaks for itself) for your resizing + simple editing needs.

CPU overclocking is generally done by increasing your FSB speed, not by playing with the multiplier, since most CPUs have that locked. Increasing FSB stresses your system, though - and your RAM, if that isn't run by a seperate clock. And yes, you can damage your system by turning FSB up too much.

As I said, I undervolt my system and keep it at stock speed. At stock voltage, I can go from 2.4GHz to 3.0GHz... 600MHz is a respectable enough gain imho, and since it's a quadcore system that adds up to ~2.4GHz total gain. But the system does draw noticably more power and gets quite hotter if I do this, and I don't need that much juice all the time, so... undervolt it is

nosh · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2008, 01:44 PM »

I suppose the fact that my CPU usually hovers in the 80-90°C range will come as a mild surprise then.

Cooking my PC: what NOT to do

The ambient temperature right now is around 26° C. I don't kid when I call it a frying pan, but it's rugged! - I've had more problems with my GPU overheating than I've had with the CPU. The only time it has been a problem is during the summers if I haven't used the dust-blower for a few weeks and I leave the house with the A/C turned off, it can get a little *cough ~100°* out of hand then.

Moral of the story: These things are more rugged than we give them credit for.
And yes, moral #2 = I need a good cooling system, stat! (For the GPU, if nothing else.)

The system with a Prescott CPU shuts down at a higher temperature than that with a Northwood. The latter's peak was, in our case, 98°C, while Prescott never shut down at temperatures below 101°C, sometimes even working on at 105°C.

http://www.digit-lif...hrottling/index.html

Grorgy · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:01 PM »

yeah there are lots of image resizers around, you could try faststone http://www.faststone.org/ they/he has an image resizer (amongst other stuff) never tried it but their other software gets good reviews

Edit - I am only mentioning faststone as its the most recent one i've seen i have no connection with them or anything like that

Lashiec · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:02 PM »

The NetBurst architecture it's probably one of the worst CPU architectures ever. If Intel didn't have tons of cash to throw to hardware assemblers, game developers, etc., AMD would have crushed its market back then.

Even then, nosh, the general temps in your computer are quite high, I suppose the heat the P4 is dissipating is frying everything there, as the HDDs are dangerously close to the 50 ºC mark. What cooler are you using?

f0dder · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:07 PM »

80-90C? That's insane... that must be a really cramped minitower case :-s

Please nosh, get yourself a couple of 80mm or 120mm fans to get some airflow before your harddrives die. They wear out a lot faster with such high temperatures.

I wouldn't say that the NetBurst architecture is the worst ever, but it doesn't work that well for x86 code - if there was a different frontend and some work was done on compiler design, the backend is cute enough.

But core2 is certainly nicer for x86 code, I wonder if AMD will ever be able to make a comeback...

Lashiec · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:15 PM »

But core2 is certainly nicer for x86 code, I wonder if AMD will ever be able to make a comeback...
-f0dder (February 17, 2008, 02:07 PM)

Maybe with Bulldozer, unless AMD engineers makes miracles with the Phenom (and judging for the overclocking capabilities of the 9600 Black Edition, this is not going to be happening soon).

f0dder · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:20 PM »

Phenom is slower per MHz than the 45nm (aka "Penryn") core2 CPUs, and iirc also draw a bit more power... plus the first stepping has the nasty L3 cache bug; afaik performance goes down ~10-30% to "fix" the bug in the affected stepping.

Oh, and while slower per MHz, they're also quite far behind in how high the MHz go. Phenom max 2.3GHz?, core2quad at 2.66GHz (3.2GHz for the wildly overpriced Extreme Editions). Notice that the "sanely priced" core2s overclock very well. Running my (65nm, ooold generation

) Q6600 at stock voltage, I can get it from 2.4GHz to 3.0GHz without breaking a sweat...

Lashiec · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:24 PM »

Yes, around 2.3-2.4 GHz, some reviewers got engineering samples from the 2.6 GHz model, which I think is the future 9900, that one can compete with the Q6600 up to some extent, but not with the Penryn. Oh well, at least AMD users can get a nice upgrade

(if I had the money...)

f0dder · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:38 PM »

Yes, around 2.3-2.4 GHz, some reviewers got engineering samples from the 2.6 GHz model, which I think is the future 9900, that one can compete with the Q6600 up to some extent, but not with the Penryn. Oh well, at least AMD users can get a nice upgrade (if I had the money...)
-Lashiec (February 17, 2008, 02:24 PM)

...and if they're lucky that their AM2 board support AM2+ - not all of them do, at least not without BIOS upgrades, and apparently that might not even be enough?

Lashiec · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:46 PM »

Uh, that I don't know. The BIOS upgrades were released a bit ago, but even with specifically designed boards for the chips, you usually run into problems. I suppose for a while it will be a hit or miss effort, although presently I don't know a single person who carried on the upgrade.

nosh · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2008, 02:59 PM »

80-90C? That's insane... that must be a really cramped minitower case :-s

It's not! It's one of those bigass ones and it isn't crammed with too many components either.

But it has just one fan at the rear. I meant to ask about cooling anyway, this issue recurred and drove me batshit - I _think_ I've finally narrowed it down successfully to the gfx card overheating. The card doesn't have its own fan and I'm not sure if I can attach one to it.

If I go for additional fans for the cabinet where would they get attached? Will I need to go for a new cabinet with a big (suction) fan at the side in addition to the rear fan or will they fit on my mobo somehow? I would ideally like to go for a system that actually cools the air coz the ambient temperature here in Bombay can get pretty high (in the 30s) during the summers if I shut off the air conditioning. I've also heard of drive bay(?) fans, sitting in an unused CD drive slot and sucking in air, seemed pretty interesting - are these any good?

Lashiec · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2008, 03:18 PM »

Well, most cases usually come with pre-made places for putting more fans. One or two front fans to suck "cool" air (well, 30 ºC is lower than 85 ºC anyway :D) in the front would help to create some airflow in the inside. Look if the case accepts fans in the side panel (in this instance, it would be to get an influx of air directly over the CPU, the motherboard, and the GPU, and to not break the airflow created by the intake and outtake fans), the top (rare) or the bottom (even more rare).

You can usually attach an aftermarket cooler to the GPU, but if it does not use one (not even a heatsink?) maybe it does not need it. If it uses a heatsink you can attach a fan with zip ties (not very high-tech but works ;D)

I don't know about drive bay fans, but I guess that are primarily used to create a wind tunnel for the PSU.

A system to cool air? Now that's rare... maybe water cooling, but that's expensive. It does not cool air inside the case, but it's a better cooler than air. Even with those high temperatures, I think you would not have problems using simple fans. In summer, we're around 40 ºC, and the components are more or less at a good temperature. And I don't have any of those fancy air conditioners ;D

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2008, 03:28 PM »

My case's front intake fan utilizes 3 of my 9 available drive bays

, but man can it suck air!

You probably need to get a new case to do that however, as mine was fitted for my case. Check and see if it is available for your specific model. $:-\$

EDIT: In case your interested, I am using an Antec Ninehundred Gamer Case