Author Topic: Versioning of files (Read 53419 times)

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #25 on:** October 05, 2007, 09:29 PM »

What I have works, and does not depend on a proprietary system (no matter how nice). I know where *everything* is without having to delve into a UI, without trusting that the next version will work or even be released. I can access my archives using any computer, so long as it can decode ZIP files and edit ASCII.

But whatever works for you, tin. Nothing proves a concept better than success.

tomos · « **Reply #26 on:** October 06, 2007, 08:02 AM »

tomos,

FileHamster is what you are looking for. Some suggestions for you:

If you want to take notes while working on the file, instead of waiting until you make a save. Use the Notes Window Plugin.
Note that you can tweak the settings to change how your files are saved. For example you can keep the last X number of saves. But note that at each version you can override that by choosing to lock that version so that it won't be autodeleted.
-tinjaw (October 05, 2007, 07:32 PM)

yeah,
installed it & tried out with a couple of files

it's looking very good (

to all

)
tinjaw: notes plugin does make it a lot easier to use

I havent figured out how to use the zip plugin yet - says it's running but cant find any options related to it..
I might invest in their Report Window Plugin I mentioned above (post #21) just to see, & support too
(@ only 10$ I can feel good about supporting - I even get something extra for it!)

I guess this would then replace my incremental backup $:-\$ .

tinjaw · « **Reply #27 on:** October 06, 2007, 09:13 AM »

I havent figured out how to use the zip plugin yet - says it's running but cant find any options related to it..
-tomos (October 06, 2007, 08:02 AM)

There is a plugin section in the help file.

Zip Plugin

Storing revisions of all your files can take up quite a bit of space. With the zip plugin you can reduce the amount of space used by these revisions.

You can enable zipping of revisions in the context menu for a watch in the watch tree. Just right click your watch or document, choose options from the menu and change the ZipRevisions option for the zip plugin to True. You may also select your preferred type of compression.
-FileHamster Help File

tomos · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2007, 12:37 PM »

thanks tinjaw

I actually looked up the help file - but
using the index, where it doesnt give you that info - i live & learn..

jzippo · « **Reply #29 on:** October 07, 2007, 09:24 AM »

Is it easy to keep backups of the versions that FileHamster keeps (complete with the comments of course)? And, how would it work if I would like to keep two FileHamster's on two computers synchronized?, would I be able to use a software that synchronizes files with the versions that FileHamster keeps?

tinjaw · « **Reply #30 on:** October 07, 2007, 01:29 PM »

Is it easy to keep backups of the versions that FileHamster keeps (complete with the comments of course)?
-jzippo (October 07, 2007, 09:24 AM)

Yes. Behind the scenes all FileHamster is doing is making a bunch of copies of the files in another directory. You just need to backup that directory.

And, how would it work if I would like to keep two FileHamster's on two computers synchronized?, would I be able to use a software that synchronizes files with the versions that FileHamster keeps?
-jzippo (October 07, 2007, 09:24 AM)

I haven't tried this, but my guess is that you should be able to as long as you don't try to edit the same file at the same time. You should be able to use the same shared network directory for the FileHamsters storage. I don't know if all the info FileHamster needs, like what files/folders to track, is also stored in that directory, of it is stored in the executable directory. If it is in the executable's directory, that might break things.

You should probably ask the developers. I imagine they would be able to tell you if it has already been done, or even if it is feasible.

laughinglizard · « **Reply #31 on:** October 07, 2007, 05:43 PM »

Re current setup,
I not only keep multiple versions of files, but have very regular incremental backup going on.
Problem with incremental backup is if something gets changed & I dont notice it for a while it can be a bummer trying to find last known pre-change version or whatever.
Yes,
-tomos (October 05, 2007, 10:32 AM)

Tomos, you might want to look at BackUp4All - it has version tracking and a jillion other things.
http://www.backup4all.com/

I have it but the few times I've used it I end up mystified by too many choices and things to do.
I bought it on BitsduJour discounted.

I've gone back to tossing things on another drive partition or to a back up drive.

laughinglizard · « **Reply #32 on:** October 07, 2007, 05:52 PM »

Forgot to add there's a 30% discount off the professional version for DC members.

tomos · « **Reply #33 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:48 AM »

Tomos, you might want to look at BackUp4All - it has version tracking and a jillion other things.
http://www.backup4all.com/

I have it but the few times I've used it I end up mystified by too many choices and things to do.
I bought it on BitsduJour discounted.

I've gone back to tossing things on another drive partition or to a back up drive.
-laughinglizard (October 07, 2007, 05:43 PM)

I've actually got it installed, think I probably bought it same time as you!
I used it a good bit, then I got SFFS...

I had a look at website.
They do say

Version Tracking
Backup4all for U3 is a portable backup software that offers a unique mode to track file versions. You can selectively restore any previous state of the file directly from the main window.

on the comparision page http://www.backup4al...m/feature-matrix.php
the pro version has everything the portable one has.

unfortunately they dont elaborate on the above quote (anywhere i can find at any rate)
I suspect they are talking about their way of restoring or something
To be honest when i used it I did have occasion to restore something - but I simply went & unzipped it
Because I havent used it yet on this computer I cant check stuff already backed up

I've wanted to give it a go again cause they talked about plugins to backup programme settings:
in spite of that, searching for plugins at their site brings up nix.
maybe it's just in the pipeline... $:-\$

tomos · « **Reply #34 on:** October 08, 2007, 02:58 AM »

I've wanted to give it a go again cause they talked about plugins to backup programme settings:
in spite of that, searching for plugins at their site brings up nix.
maybe it's just in the pipeline... $:-\$
-tomos (October 08, 2007, 02:48 AM)

Okay,
this a bit off topic but seeing as i mentioned it
in spite of their search not working (they need to hire Wordzilla)
info links etc for plugins are here:
http://www.backup4al....com/latest-news.php (Sept.13 entry)
or
better still
http://www.backup4all.com/kb/15/

tomos · « **Reply #35 on:** October 08, 2007, 07:36 AM »

I had had a look at their site but only now notice they have a forum & a wiki

my fear of too many versions is unnecessary:
..can occasionally tell FileHamster to remove unprotected files. Please note that files get set as protected by default when you add a comment.
-tomos (October 05, 2007, 05:15 AM)

which basically means I can save as often as I like, just put comments on the important ones & easily delete the rest
-tomos (October 05, 2007, 04:39 PM)

unfortunately that's not working for me*
It's working out really well for me otherwise, very happy i is

* will probably go to their forums with that one

* EDIT: as often, i being too hasty -
it will "purge" all uprotected documents (those without comments by default) except the last saved version
- wonderful programme!!

Softland · « **Reply #36 on:** October 09, 2007, 02:39 AM »

Few details about Backup4all:
- file versioning means that different versions of the same file will be stored as long as you keep the backups; an example, say you schedule a daily incremental backup for a folder where you have a word document - first day it will do a full backup, second day if your word document was changed it will be copied and added to the 2nd backup (a zip file), 3rd day the word document willl be copied again (if it changed) and so on... all the versions of the word document are kept in different backups, so say you changed it daily you'll have at the end of a week 7 different versions of the word document stored in 7 different zip file (i'm assuming now you wouldn't use any split/merge or advanced options)

- to restore a version of a file (can be to the original location or a different location) in the explore view of Backup4all you select the backed up file and in the lower part of the main window you'll see different versions listed - http://www.backup4al...duct_description.htm this image shows that for the selected file (backup4all-lite.png in this case) there are about 13 different versions listed in the window below it (file version window); additionally, the restore can be done using the restore wizard, in case for instance you want to automatically filter which versions are shown,... - http://www.backup4al...restore_versions.htm

- as for the plugins, they should appear now in the search results, normally the best search results for the knowledgebase are obtained when using its own search engine http://www.backup4all.com/kb/search/

Hope this helps a little. If not, you can always ask our support guys (support [at] backup4all.com) specific backup scenario questions.

tomos · « **Reply #37 on:** October 09, 2007, 02:56 AM »

Few details about Backup4all:
....
-Softland (October 09, 2007, 02:39 AM)

thanks for the clarifications, looking forward to trying out some plugins

gwynevans · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:19 PM »

Ralf, dude! You're killing me. You are doing everything you can to avoid using an actual version control system. You are doing extra work, that you would get "out of the box" with version control.
-tinjaw (October 05, 2007, 07:39 PM)

I've got to second that - Ralf's built his own VCS there, but I'd strongly suggest he trial subversion and TortoiseSVN alongside it (which shouldn't be a problem) and see if that might be easier.

tinjaw · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2007, 03:21 PM »

I've got to second that...
-gwynevans (October 17, 2007, 02:19 PM)

I have no idea who this gwynevans is, but they are obviously intelligent.

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2007, 03:29 PM »

What is the problem with how I do things? Honestly... I can see the allure of a pretty interface, but what functionality am I lacking? I really want to know.

What will I gain by using a proprietary versioning system as opposed to collections of .zip files? What functionality do you perceive I am lacking?

It takes me literally seconds to archive my project, and only additional seconds to roll it back. Or forward. To any point by version number or date. All or part.

And I can throw the whole thing on a DVD and carry it to any computer on the planet and access my source.

Help me understand why I am not as smart as you guys. Seriously, lay it out.

f0dder · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2007, 03:58 PM »

Ralf Maximus: subversion (and other versioning systems) obviously won't shine until you're dealing with multiple developers per project, but after "getting into the mindset", even as as single developer I wouldn't do without subversion.

You might have some of the same functionality with your scheme, but with subversion everything is pretty easy. I can (quickly) check out any revision I want. I can "freeze" stable releases, or branch off into development releases. There are graphical tools for showing revision tree. (When using a repository server on the internet) I can check out from any machine I want to. File storage is done smartly to minimize disk usage (only differences are stored) - this is used when checking out stuff, too. I can use either commandline tools, or explorer integration.

Most of the stuff is probably doable with your system as well, you'd have to give subversion a chance and actually use it for a while before you learn to appreciate it... took me a while, even though the learning curve isn't steep.

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2007, 09:25 PM »

Thanks, f0dder. The two things you've listed that I can't do with my system are:

1. Graphical view of forked projects. That would be nice to have, but thankfully, I don't do a lot of forking.

2. "Differential" storage of files. However this conflicts with my requirement of self-containment; I must be able to carry a complete revision package from PC to PC if necessary, and requiring the whole archive to access the latest changes won't fly.

Now I want to hear from tinjaw. Tell me why I am an idiot for not doing version control the way you do it.

MikeMcLoughlin · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2007, 03:59 AM »

I'm currently testing FileHamster at the moment and agree with previous posters that, for a single developer, it is a good solution.

Just thought I'd pass on details though of another product which I use called Developer's Backup http://www.developersbackup.com. It is basically a zipping utility but the way it allows you to set up backup plans and exclude file patterns makes it very convenient to use.

Give it a try, it's free with a condition that you register every 90 days, or shareware at a reasonable price. I paid for my version and use it all the time.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2007, 06:56 AM »

Just tried FileHamster - I love it!

I have been using Adobe VersionCue but I like FH better. It is simple to use, easy to find things, ZIPs stuff up (though presumably you could equally well apply NTFS compression to the backup folder and get the same effect transparently).

WRT proprietary software - it isn't an issue all the previous versions are simply available in a simple directory structure and each version is clearly dated/timed in the revision filename.

WRT Zip plugin - just right click on the library at the top level and there is a link to the Zip Wizard and also details are listed in options.

How have I not seen this before?

I have one wish though ... rather than making an initial snapshot of all watched files/folders it would be really good if FH made a baseline backup of the file the first time it is opened - that way it would avoid duplicating hundreds of files needlessly. I know you can select what to watch and how to create the initial snapshot - but an automated 'as you go' method would be excellent.

Beth UK · « **Reply #45 on:** October 18, 2007, 07:51 AM »

I agree with Carol on this:

it would be really good if FH made a baseline backup of the file the first time it is opened

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #46 on:** October 18, 2007, 08:14 AM »

I have posted this request on their "Wish List" forum - be interesting to see if there are any takers.

nontroppo · « **Reply #47 on:** October 18, 2007, 05:09 PM »

Another big

to FileHamster. I was a beta tester since the beginning, and the Mogware guys are incredibly friendly and open to suggestions. They are really passionate about FH and that is really the most you can ask of a developer.

I used to use the free CS-RCS from component software for quite a while:

http://www.component...roducts/freetool.htm

Also pretty nice, but FH wins on simplicity...

tinjaw · « **Reply #48 on:** October 18, 2007, 05:36 PM »

Now I want to hear from tinjaw. Tell me why I am an idiot for not doing version control the way you do it.
-Ralf Maximus (October 17, 2007, 09:25 PM)

Come on now, I didn't call you an idiot.

All joking aside, you can use whatever you want. I doesn't bother me one bit. However, by using your own homegrown system, you will never get any of the benefits of using a class of tool that has been used by millions of software developers and built for the express purpose of solving the problem of version control. Your tool may do what you need perfectly, but if you want to do one iota more, you will need to add that to your system, and the choice you make may limit what you can or cannot do when you need yet another iota of functionality. However, chances are very high, that if you don't know what a version control system can do for you, you don't need one. It also means that you will need to learn how to use one if you ever want to work on a piece of software with anyone besides yourself, because working without version control when more than a single developer work on a project is, to all intents and purposes, impossible.

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2007, 01:47 AM »

Come on now, I didn't call you an idiot.

No, *I* called me an idiot and put the words in your mouth. :-)

What I may have failed to mention (or did, way back in the mists of time -- I forget) is that I used to use VSS. Actually, our whole team did. For three years I lived and died alongside VSS in a six-member development team. We used it to manage source. The QA testers used VSS to annotate modules that passed or failed, and management used it to track the status of projects by reading the notes.

For all my whining about VSS's sucktitude, it actually saved us more than cursed us. The occasional crash or weirdness was worth the end result. And I KNOW there was no way we could have gotten projects out the door without it.

When I started my business, I began using VSS to manage my own one-developer project, and rapidly became disgusted at how little it returned for my devotion. I'd forgotten we had a guy in our team who spent 1/4 of his time as the VSS administrator. A lot of the features I remembered liking in the 6-person environment simply didn't apply here: I rarely forked a project, and almost never rolled anything back entirely. "Checking out" a module was silly since I was the only guy here, and I had no QA team or managers.

I threw it out and developed my own mechanism, using Office, WinZip, and some batch files. Two years ago I ditched the batch files and started using SyncBack.

Granted VSS is a pig, and the version we used was an earlier one. I *know* versioning tools have evolved since then. If I had some spare time I would love to evaluate the latest crop of tools (one of my favorite pasttimes: downloading cool new stuff) and actually learn what I am missing.

I am NOT saying "these packages suck, my system wins". I'm simply saying that in my case some custom-built tools fit my workflow better than what I've seen so far.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your patience with me.