Video Editors

[Curt]

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[Happy Expat]

Hej på dig Curt, Google Translate eller pratar du Svenka

[Happy Expat]

Vurbal, what did I do to deserve such help?
Can't say I disagree with your views on their integrity, I attempted to contact them four times and each time they asked me for my order ref "so they could verify which version I had" and never came back again. ArcSoft go one stage further and tell me that as I'm using bundled software I can "go pester the hardware supplier!" I may have been misleading about the audio quality. The EZCAP successfully downloaded from my set top box and produced decent stereo using ShowBiz 3.5, it was only when I ran into the "copy protection" problem with the camcorder and had to use 5.x with its slugged AAC CODEC that I encountered the audio problem.
All that's bye the bye though - It's my intention to get a copy of VirtualDub and then hopefully I can set it up and do the whole project all over again. Perhaps I can pick your brains when I set-up and get the optimum configuration and resolutions for any other wrinkles I create.

[Happy Expat]

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Just practicing - in case I somehow manage to post it!

[Happy Expat]

Are there other labels associated with the spoiler?
Where do I go to learn a little more about this environment?

[Vurbal]

Are there other labels associated with the spoiler?
Where do I go to learn a little more about this environment?

-Happy Expat (March 06, 2014, 01:21 PM)

Down at the bottom of the main forum page there's a special board called Personal Area. It's just what it sounds like - your own personal board to test out posts or write and save drafts for later. I like to just go talk to myself but people seem to give me strange looks when I mention that.

[Curt]

Translate eller pratar du Svenka

-Happy Expat (March 06, 2014, 12:52 PM)

I'm living in CPH.dk, so a little bit of both :-)

a special board called Personal Area. (...) I like to just go talk to myself but people seem to give me strange looks when I mention that.

-Vurbal (March 06, 2014, 02:45 PM)

^ yes, the personal area is the place to be, for such habit, they told me, and locked the door behind me...

[Vurbal]

a special board called Personal Area. (...) I like to just go talk to myself but people seem to give me strange looks when I mention that.

-Vurbal (March 06, 2014, 02:45 PM)

^ yes, the personal area is the place to be, for such habit, they told me, and locked the door behind me...

-Curt (March 06, 2014, 04:47 PM)

I feel better now that I know they weren't singling me out.

[4wd]

Something that I've used previously with good results, (analog input via TV card), is VirtualVCR - hasn't been updated for ages but then it doesn't really need to be.

Capturing to either in a MPJG (Motion JPEG) or Huffyuv codec, or RAW video.

One program for capturing where I've never had a problem with AV sync loss is iuVCR/iuVCS - paid program and hasn't been updated for a while and the interface is rather strange to get your head around.  I honestly wouldn't recommend buying it now purely because of the lack of development, (I bought it over 10 years ago and still use it occasionally).

I would consider investing in a copy of Sony's Vegas Video if you can - if only for the reason that if you do get AV sync loss it makes it so easy to correct it, (relatively speaking).  I've never bothered tweaking or fiddling with any capture that suffered AV sync loss, just loaded it into Vegas and corrected it - it was faster for me to do that, (minutes), than spend hours redoing a capture.
You can still get the older Vegas 11 Platinum Edition on Amazon for $36 which gives you DVD Architect as well.

It also does video capture but I haven't used it.

[Vurbal]

I've read a lot of good things about VirtualVCR and iuVCR over the years - and honestly very few (legitimate) complaints that I can recall. In terms of codecs I'd probably stick with either HuffYUV (old reliable) or UTVideoYUY2 since both are lossless and match the capture colorspace exactly.

Normally I would advise against Vegas because I hate Sony. If you can get their premium prosumer software for that price I say jump on it. I probably wouldn't even consider it for capturing unless VirtualDub and VirtualVCR were both too much trouble.

[4wd]

Normally I would advise against Vegas because I hate Sony.

-Vurbal (March 06, 2014, 06:58 PM)

If it helps, remember that they didn't create Vegas Video in the first place

Out of the NLE programs I've played with, (a few years ago now), it's still the one that was easiest to use and just worked without having to look at the manual.

Their DVD Architect program is a whole other animal though, I just could not wrap my head around how to do anything in it - DVD-Lab has it beaten hands down.

Referring back to the OP:

Anybody know of, or feel like writing a utility to scan video files MPEGs, AVIs etc for the gaps between "scenes".
The target market would be all amateur video photographers who tend to use their new toy more like a video snapshot camera and produce 90 minute tapes with loads of dross between the scenes.
That dross needs to be edited out and finding the stuff - almost frame by frame, takes an eternity.
These gaps are "normally" a few frames - or seconds, with the snowy interference pattern you get on a screen when the transmission ends but the TV is left on, or sometimes just black frames.
If the entire file could be scanned and an index built giving the position to within a couple of seconds, or frames - then it would make life so much easier.

-Happy Expat (March 05, 2014, 11:40 AM)

This is exactly what Scenalyzer Live did for DV camcorders - originally US$35, it's now free.

You'd plug your DV camera into the firewire port on your computer, it'd scan the entire tape, (90min), in about 5 minutes at FF.  At the end you'd have a window showing each clip on the tape, (date data is embedded in DV), you then select what clips you wanted and tell it to save them, (you could also join/split, trim out dropped frames, etc).  It'd then control the camcorder to transfer every clip to your HDD.

A magic program and if you have a DV camcorder still, you really should be using it - it might even work with any newer solid state camcorder that has a firewire port.  I honestly can't praise it enough.

[Happy Expat]

4wd: Unfortunately, my camcorder is analogue and I don't have a TV card, thanks for your input anyway

Vurbal: New conundrum. Originally I captured on and old XP x32 and moved the files to my x64 Win8.1 box. When I thought I was finished I packed camcorder and tapes and filed them in the attic. If I'm going to start all over again would you recommend I:-
continue capture on the XP with a 32 bit version of VirtualDub
capture on the Win 8.1 utilising 32 bit VirtualDub
capture on the Win 8.1 with a 64bit version of VirtualDub
I understand from their site that the x32 version supports more CODECS than the x64
How did life ever get so complicated?

[Vurbal]

There's no good reason not to stick with 32-bit for capturing since all it would get you is access to more memory you won't use. I haven't used Win 8.1 and never captured anything (or ran Vdub at all that I remember) on Win8. It can't hurt to try it out.

[Vurbal]

Normally I would advise against Vegas because I hate Sony.

-Vurbal (March 06, 2014, 06:58 PM)

If it helps, remember that they didn't create Vegas Video in the first place

-4wd (March 07, 2014, 12:52 AM)

I know - the first version I used was from the pre-Sony days. IIRC it was made by Sonic Foundry.

Mostly I just don't want to give Sony my money though.

Out of the NLE programs I've played with, (a few years ago now), it's still the one that was easiest to use and just worked without having to look at the manual.

I looked at a few of the Sony versions just to see if they'd mess it up. I actually thought they would but they really haven't. And it's always been that good an interface too.

If I was going to buy that sort of all in one editor right now though I'd go with Magix Pro. The interface is probably a little more cluttered but I love that it has Matroska support. And no Sony. Yeah I really hate them that much.

What I'm actually using though is something a lot simpler and stripped down called Lightworks. It's the first PC version of the first NLE ever made. Previously it was exclusively something professional (mostly cinema) editors used. They still have some work to do on it and even they're dragging their feet on an open source release they promised long ago. OTOH it's free unless you want a couple licensed codecs and titling support. Those features cost something like $40 a year.

Normally I don't buy subscription based software but I might make an exception for Lightworks Pro. I love that they're really only charging you for the extra features and then the support packages (most of the cost) are split into their own thing as well.

Their DVD Architect program is a whole other animal though, I just could not wrap my head around how to do anything in it - DVD-Lab has it beaten hands down.

DVD-Lab Pro is probably the second best software investment I ever made, behind Acronis TrueImage 9. What always impressed me was how it managed to be completely user friendly and still the most powerful prosumer authoring program available.

[4wd]

4wd: Unfortunately, my camcorder is analogue and I don't have a TV card, thanks for your input anyway

-Happy Expat (March 07, 2014, 05:17 AM)

Your EzyCAP device is just a TV tuner without the tuner, it uses the same Philips chipset as a lot of analog TV cards, (I've got an EzyCAP lying around here somewhere - the internal TV card always performed better for me).

But here's a suggestion you may not have thought of to make capturing Hi8 ridiculously easy and if you have a lot of Hi8 tapes to do, it might be worthwhile.

Back when MiniDV camcorders were popular, (around 2000), Sony brought out the Digital8^w camcorder format, this allowed the camcorder to record DV on to Hi8 tapes.
There was one very good side benefit of this - the camcorder, (model dependent), could convert analog recorded Hi8 tapes to digital output.

Put the tape in the camcorder, plug it into the firewire port, run Scenalyzer Live, scan tape, extract wanted clips.  No fiddling with codecs, capture settings, etc and less prone to dropped video frames.

Sony Digital8 camcorders are still available on ebay, some at very cheap prices.  I'm willing to bet that most of them these days are used for Hi8 -> DV conversion and when the job is done they are sold on.

Check the model number first - even better if you can find someone who still has one and will lend it to you.

[Happy Expat]

4wd: I see, I'm now trying to beg, borrow or steal a Sony 

Vurbal: I guess you weren't kidding when you promised me the potential of frustration.

VirtualDub was unpacked on the 32bit XP machine and then placed in the c:\Program folder and run from an Admin account.

Everything was connected via EZCAP and VD found the device. In Capture mode, VD displayed the Camera's entry Screen with Date/time display.

Activating play on the Camcorder gave me a functioning playback in VD and sound from the external speakers.

I named the target location for saved files and then started playback on the Camcorder, I selected "test video capture" but VD's display blanked. I had noticed a parameter to suppress the monitor and suspected this was the cause. I didn't bother to change anything but simply stopped the "test" and then proceeded with a live capture. Again the monitor was blank but I could hear the soundrack so I simply continued for a few seconds and then "stopped" the capture.

When I tried to open the file in VD the target directory was displayed but explorer crashed.

Error Signature:  AppName: explorer.exe  AppVer: 6.0.2900.5512  ModName: shmedia.dll ModVer: 6.0.2900.5512 Offset: 0000ac54

The detailed error report can't  be cut and pasted and because I chose the option not to send the report to MS the anticipated detailed log file (C:\DOCUME~1\THEFAT~1\LOKALA~1\Temp\c002_appcompat.txt) was never created, or at least, I was never able to find it :-(.

I bit the bullet and tried to do it again, this time to try to capture the log file before saying no or by saying yes to transmit. I now can't see the camcorder output. If I stop playback then a single frame is displayed which seems to be the first frame on the tape. This is a "ghost" from previous attempts because if I access the settings menu it clears and if I restart VD, it resets to the current Camcorder status screen. Any attempt to capture the output in either test or genuine mode simply results in a capture error poppup and the message "unable to start video capture".

Two attempts to capture were made and two small files created. Both files could be opened with VD but were empty. Heres the Media info on one of those files just in case it's significant.

hidden text

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Colin\Downloads\VDtest2.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 10.0 KiB

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : YUY2
Codec ID/Info                            : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 3:2
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Compression mode                         : Lossless

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings, Endianness              : Little
Format settings, Sign                    : Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 3 072 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 96.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves

I now can't re-create the first error conditions because of the "new" capture error status so I simply can't provide a representative windows crash log file.

Is there a VD log/crash file that I can inspect?

As soon as the explorer  error condition is acknowledged then Explorer (not the machine) re-boots. If I then try to use the Start Menu to get to the file location it still crashes immediately the location is accessed. However, if I take the route through Computer\C:\Docs and Settings\etc I can at least "open" the appropriate folder but as soon as I attempt to even right click the supposed video file then Explorer crashes. I do briefly get the right click context menu. I can access other files/folders in that directory but not the offending video clip - even mouse-over causes a crash.

I was able to remove the file only by capturing it in a marquee and then deleting it AND I EMPTIED THE WASTE BIN AND REBOOTED FOR GOOD MEASURE so, NO, I can't provide any kind of header or any other information from that particular menace!

For the record, a subsequent capture test utilising Showbiz successfully completed, so, if there are any common .dlls or CODECS they remain in functioning condition.

[4wd]

Not trying to muddy waters or anything but you might try VirtualVCR.

Video Editors

Hit the Settings button to get:

Video Editors

Under the File tab set your output file name/location, check the Add Compatibility Index, and optionally whether you want to keep the stats output and/or have the date/time in the file name.

Video Editors

Under the Audio tab, check Capture Audio.  Click the Input Settings button and select your input volume control, (I have to use Front Mic input and Master Volume on my machine), and set the volume level.

Video Editors

Check Compress Audio and select PCM, click the Properties button and select the highest 44.1kHz Stereo setting.

Video Editors

This bit is going to be completely different for you.  Under the Devices tab, select your Video/Audio device, select the  Video Source, and then under Device Settings there'll be an entry pertaining to Video Capture, (there may be more than one), click the Properties button and make sure the Stream Format is correct.  Yours will probably say NTSC-M or J, Frame Rate 29.97, Color Space YUY2, and 720x480 (default).

You can OK out of settings now and click the Save button, (next to Settings button).  Click the Stats button, (second from right), and move the Stats window out of the way.

This sets VirtualVCR up to capture RAW video with PCM audio, space required for the capture will be ~1.2GB/minute, (600GB is good for about 7-8 hours recording).

Here's the Stats window:

Video Editors

The ones of most interest are: Dropped(2), Time/Space Left, and A/V Rate Matching

The first two are how many frames have been dropped due to: poor quality tape, high CPU/HDD usage due to other processes interfering, sync correction if necessary, etc.
Time/Space Left tell you how much more recording you can do to that drive.
A/V Rate Matching informs you of how well synced the output is likely to be - you want the Video fps to be as close to the standard as possible, at the same time you want the Audio sampling rate to be as close as possible to what you chose.  The Delta to be as small as possible.

If you're having problems with keeping A/V sync then you can try playing with the A/V Sync settings.

Until you get the input set up correctly I'd probably enable the Smart Tee filter under Settings->View, this will allow you to view the video stream, (this doesn't work under Windows 8).  After you've got the inputs set, I'd disable it as it puts unnecessary load on the system, something you don't want while capturing.

Just having played with VirtualVCR again, I have to say I'm impressed with Windows 8.1 - one dropped frame over 10 minutes while I was typing this and other programs running in the background.  Something that wasn't even remotely possibly under Windows 7 on my machine previously, I would have had to kill almost all tasks and even then it'd be touch and go.

[Happy Expat]

4wd: Have found a Sony DCR TRV-355 which seems to have AV interface component video and s.video - not sure if it's one of these that's supposed to connect to firewire.
specs attached - does that seem to fit the bill?

hidden text

    Part Number:DCR-TRV355

General

    Packaged Quantity 1.0
    Product Type Camcorder
    Localization English
    Digital Zoom 700.0 x
    Camcorder Media Type Digital8
    Optical Sensor Size 1/6"
    Optical Sensor Type CCD
    Min Illumination 0.0 lux
    Analog video format PAL
    Digital Video Format MPEG EX
    Special Effects Mosaic,
    Chroma Key,
    Old Movie,
    Solarization,
    Slim,
    Sepia,
    Trail,
    Flash Motion,
    Still,
    Luminance Key,
    Stretch,
    Monotone,
    Low Shutter Speed (LSS),
    Negative Art,
    Pastel
    Image Stabilizer Electronic (Super Steady Shot)
    Digital Scene Transition Bounce fader,
    Mosaic fader,
    Overlap fader,
    Random,
    Monotone fader,
    Black fader,
    Window wipe
    Min Shutter Speed 0.33333334 sec
    Max Shutter Speed 0.00025 sec
    Shooting modes Digital photo mode
    Shooting Programs Sunset & moon,
    Beach & ski,
    Portrait mode,
    Landscape,
    Sports mode,
    Spotlight
    White Balance Automatic
    Exposure Modes Automatic,
    Program
    Camera Flash None
    Image Recording Format JPEG
    Webcam capability Yes
    AV Interfaces Component video,
    S-Video

Lens System

    Type 20.0 x x Zoom lens - 2.5 mm - 50.0 mm - F/1.6-2.4
    Lens aperture F/1.6-2.4
    Optical Zoom 20.0 x
    Lens system type Zoom lens
    Min focal length 2.5 mm
    Max focal length 50.0 mm
    Auto Focus TTL contrast detection
    Filter Size 37.0 mm
    Focal Length Equivalent to 35mm Camera -855.0 mm
    Focus Adjustment Automatic,
    Manual
    Zoom Adjustment Motorized drive

Additional Features

    Built-in Light Yes
    Low Lux / Night Mode Yes
    DV input Yes
    Additional Features Backlight compensation,
    Built-in speaker,
    Digital noise reduction
    Software Drivers & Utilities,
    PIXELA Image Mixer
    Included Accessories Power adapter,
    Camcorder shoulder strap,
    Audio / video cable,
    IR remote control,
    SCART adapter,
    Lens cap,
    USB cable

Viewfinder

    Viewfinder Type LCD
    Viewfinder Diagonal Size 0.44 in
    Viewfinder Resolution 113000.0 pixels

Display

    Type 2.5 in LCD display

Connections

    Connector Type 1.0 x DC power input,
    1.0 x IEEE 1394 (FireWire/i.LINK),
    1.0 x Control-L (LANC),
    1.0 x S-Video input / output,
    1.0 x Microphone,
    1.0 x USB,
    1.0 x Composite video/audio (input/output)

Memory / Storage

    Media type Digital8
    Memory Card Slot Memory Stick card
    Image Storage Standard JPEG 640 x 480 : 40.0 VA - With 8MB card,
    Super-fine JPEG 640 x 480 : 122.0 VA - With 8MB card,
    Fine JPEG 640 x 480 : 81.0 VA - With 8MB card
    Video Capture MPEG - 160 x 112,
    MPEG - 320 x 240
    Video Recording Modes SP,
    LP

Battery

    Supported Battery 1.0 x Li-ion rechargeable battery - 700.0 mAh ( Included )

Audio Input

    Audio input type Microphone
    Microphone type Built-in
    Microphone Operation Mode Stereo
    Microphone technology Electret condenser

Manufacturer Warranty

    Service & Support 1 year warranty
    Service & Support Details Limited warranty - 1 year

Power

    Mfr estimated battery life 105.0 min

Viewfinder / Display

    Display Features Rotating
    Viewfinder Color Support Black & white

Physical Characteristics

    Width 3.5 in
    Depth 7.8 in
    Height 4.0 in
    Weight 1.8 lbs

[Happy Expat]

Vurbal: My 90minute tapes are going to produce more file than the drive space on my xp machine (x32 with a dual  core 3.2ghz processor). I can plug in a USB 1TB transcend drive (would USB be fast enough?) or simply transfer the project to the bigger machine where I've got 1.7TB of free space and the pluggable potential. I'm also assuming that once the files are encoded into the final format they take a little less space.
It is quite convenient to utilise the XP for projects like this but whilst I'm biting bullets..........

[4wd]

4wd: Have found a Sony DCR TRV-355 which seems to have AV interface component video and s.video - not sure if it's one of these that's supposed to connect to firewire.

-Happy Expat (March 09, 2014, 12:33 AM)

What country are you in?

I had thought you were in the USA.  That models PAL, as long as the Hi8 tapes are recorded in PAL there should be no problem.

The TRV-355 would be suitable according to specs, it has Firewire, (IEEE1394), and according to this review on Amazon it should fit the bill nicely.

I had been concerned that I would not be able to save my old Hi8 tapes that had been taken over tha past 8 years when my old camcorder packed up. I trawled the net to find a product that could use my old tape format Hi8 but also give me the new digitised system Digital 8 of recording. Well, this camera does it and more! Within minutes of it's arrival I was linked up and downloading my video footage. [Pre order a firewire cable]. ......

To transfer DV from the camcorder will require ~2GB for every 10 minutes of footage IIRC.

[Happy Expat]

What country are you in?

-4wd (March 09, 2014, 01:29 AM)

Sweden, so PAL should work nicely and the Ebay offer states "all cables and accessories included" crikey it's even got a nice after market carry case.

I suspect somebody is clearing out a deceased estate - or garage - and this is just "one of those old fashioned clunky cameras"

[4wd]

Since you're in Europe, I would specifically ask if it will play back Hi8 tapes and transfer them over Firewire .... but then if they're clearing house they may not know.

Do you have a link for the item?

PM it if you don't want those sneaky DC people to see it  

BTW, your computer does have a Firewire interface, right?

[Happy Expat]

The spec included in the earlier post and three pictures are all that was attached to the listing. The pictures definitely show it as Hi8 compatible but as mentioned, the AV outputs didn't specifically mention Firewire. I also suspect the specification sheet is generated by Amazon. I'm keeping a very low profile on the announcement because so far, it has attracted zero interest and I'd sooner risk less than $A20 on the current asking price than create more demand. 

[4wd]

No problems, if you can get it around that price it's worth taking a gamble.

It says IEEE1394 (Firewire/iLink) in the specs, down under Connections - you may not see my modded post above so:

You do have a Firewire connection on your computer, don't you?

With the transfer via Firewire, I think Scenalyzer might fall back to scene detection since Hi8 tapes don't have the embedded timecodes of DV so you should still be able to capture with it.

But there's also a couple of other simple programs that will let you capture video via Firewire:
WinDV
DVIO

Most NLE programs will also capture DV without a problem, (eg. Vegas, Premiere, etc).

[Happy Expat]

On the old XP box I do have firewire but not on this 8.1 machine. However, I do have five spare slots so taking the board from the old box and re-installing it here probably won't cause too much heartache.