Author Topic: English as it is spoke. (Read 13296 times)

pilgrim · « **on:** May 24, 2013, 08:20 AM »

It is a little known histerical fact that in the year 1807 at a court in Berkhampstead, England, a man named Noah Webster was tried in his absence and convicted of the attempted murder of the English Language, an event which took place the previous year in the former American colonies. It was a crime so terrible that to this day millions of people around the world still suffer from its effects.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

On a more modern note you will all be aware of the language files that are part of various software.
Just recently I came across a program that carried such things to extremes, at least as far as English went.
Besides En-UK and En-US it had En-AU, CA, NZ, and SA, it only needed IR and they would have had a full house.
Strictly speaking all versions other than the original might easily be combined under En-PI.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

English was never my best subject at school and it wasn't just written English.
I remember my parents being called in by the Head Teacher who complained that she couldn't understand half of what I said.
It wasn't surprising really as she came from the stockbroker belt while we lived in the pawnbroker belt.

My Father suggested that if they wanted me to talk proper they should give me some of those 'electrocution' lessons.
My Mother was shocked!
Mind you so would I have been if they had gone through with it.
Fortunately she told them that those lessons were not included in the current curriculum.
Pathetic or Watt?

This is another extract from Pilgrim: A Brief Hystery.

Tinman57 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2013, 06:21 PM »

Shouldn't this go in the "Silly Humor" forum?

On another note, English is supposed to be the hardest language in the world to learn. By listening to some of the younger generation talk I can tell they either had a hard time in English class, or, most likely, is a result of today's educational system in the U.S., which I can attest to first hand. My step-daughter was having problems with her English homework/test and asked me to help. First thing I told her is that I attended school years ago and most likely wouldn't be able to help much, thinking things had advanced by now. Then I looked at the questions she had to answer and discovered they were at the 8th grade reading level, she was a senior at the time. I went over the whole home-test with her (making her think about the answer, like teaching). She scored 100 on the test, but I know if I hadn't of helped her she would have barely passed, if she had passed at all....

pilgrim · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2013, 05:16 AM »

Shouldn't this go in the "Silly Humor" forum?
-Tinman57 (May 24, 2013, 06:21 PM)

I'm not sure it qualifies for either.

I always thought that a Living Room was a suitable place for 'humour', perhaps I was mistaken?

Perhaps I should stick to computing subjects? Or simply stop posting altogether and just read the threads?

Really!

IainB · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2013, 06:08 AM »

Shouldn't this go in the "Silly Humor" forum?
-Tinman57 (May 24, 2013, 06:21 PM)
I'm not sure it qualifies for either.
I always thought a Living Room was a suitable place for 'humour', perhaps I was mistaken?
Perhaps I should stick to computing subjects? Or simply stop posting altogether and just read the threads?
-pilgrim (May 25, 2013, 05:16 AM)

Hahaha, very droll. Yes, it can be a real challenge sometimes can't it?

Here you go. This is what you probably need to consider doing:

Censorship - 03 eyes ears mouth.jpg

By the way, I liked the jokes. Thanks.

pilgrim · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2013, 07:06 AM »

By the way, I liked the jokes.
-IainB (May 25, 2013, 06:08 AM)

Just when I was beginning to think that everybody was a critic.

Actually I have been thinking about my original post and remembering how I used to think that pawnbrokers were very strange people, and talk about vain!
Have you seen their sign?

I've often wondered if in very cold weather they are prone to the same problem as that experienced by a certain type of monkey?

Reminds me of the story about the woman who had just given birth to her first child, she saw that when the midwife looked at the baby she had a shocked expression on her face.
The mother said "What's the matter, please tell me there's nothing wrong with the baby".
The midwife replied "No there's nothing wrong with it, you have a lovely son............................but tell me is your husband a pawnbroker by any chance?"

Tuxman · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2013, 07:53 AM »

English as it is spoke.

Yo dawg?

pilgrim · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2013, 08:45 AM »

English as it is spoke.

Yo dawg?
-Tuxman (May 25, 2013, 07:53 AM)

The English version doesn't have one.

pilgrim · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2013, 09:39 AM »

Rereading this thread one of the earlier replies reminded me about something I read about the person mentioned in my original post, Noah Webster.

He was evidently considered by many who actually knew him to have been a selfish person throughout his life.
One of his childhood friends was quoted as saying that while he always expected you to have time for him he rarely had time for U.
His subsequent publications would tend to confirm that view.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:36 AM »

By the way, I liked the jokes.
-IainB (May 25, 2013, 06:08 AM)

Just when I was beginning to think that everybody was a critic.
-pilgrim (May 25, 2013, 07:06 AM)

Just remember that the highest complement one can expect from a really good pun is an exasperated groan.

Frankly when I fist started reading some of your post I thought for sure that Douglas Adams had been resurrected ... Love your style man.

Tinman57 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2013, 07:33 PM »

And for the modern day equivalent of this story:

THE CRADLE OF ENGLISH: Police constables in England's Avon and Somerset
Constabulary say they're "baffled" by the advice given to them by
superiors ahead of the annual Problem Orientated Partnerships "problem-
solving competition" to be held in the United States. One officer
charged the document was "murder of the English language," while a
spokesman for the Plain English Campaign called the language
"Ploddledygook." Sample passage: "Coherent evaluation with sound
evidence of whether the aim was achieved along with what worked well
and why, and conversely, what didn't work so well and why How were the
outcomes of initiative shared? i.e.; if you addressed an issue arising
from PACT, how have you responded to the 'you said' by promoting 'we
did'?" (RC/London Telegraph) ...In rank they may be superior. In other
measures, not so much.
[Taken From "This Is True"]

Hmmmm, wonder where the officer got that line from....

IainB · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2013, 01:02 AM »

Let's look at those two sentences:

"Coherent evaluation with sound evidence of whether the aim was achieved along with what worked well and why, and conversely, what didn't work so well and why How were the outcomes of initiative shared? i.e.; if you addressed an issue arising from PACT, how have you responded to the 'you said' by promoting 'we did'?"

Possible rewrite:

"Analyse and evaluate, describing whether and how the aim was achieved, and what specifically was effective or ineffective, and why.
How were the outcomes of the initiative shared? For example, if you addressed an issue arising from PACT, how did you respond to the 'you said' by promoting 'we did'?"

The original first sentence is very awkward and contains several redundant words. It seems to reflect a form of illiteracy that is quite common in the English-speaking world, where people have learned the language but have not been taught (or have not learned) how to communicate clearly in writing.
This form of illiteracy was particularly prevalent in the UK Civil Service, which was why Sir Ernest Gowers wrote The Complete Plain Words.

Goodness knows what the second sentence is about.

pilgrim · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2013, 05:24 AM »

What they need is a copy of THIS.

I've got one and it's very precise.......................in fact it's precisely 3cm thick which is exactly what I needed to support a table with a damaged leg.
Yes, I'm always working on my English Usage.

IainB · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2013, 06:58 AM »

No, I reckon they already had a copy of that, and had read it, hence the gobbledygook.

Tinman57 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 26, 2013, 06:27 PM »

The original first sentence is very awkward and contains contains several redundant words.
-IainB (May 26, 2013, 01:02 AM)

Wow, an explanation AND an example! BWAHAHAHAHA!

IainB · « **Reply #14 on:** May 26, 2013, 08:14 PM »

^ Hahaha. Thanks. Well spotted. I hadn't realised I had repeated that. Always difficult to spot your own mistakes. Corrected now.

Is there a word in English that describes that as a figure of speech - I mean, describes a description of an error which itself contains an example of the selfsame error?
Is it simply "an illustration"?
If you do it unwittingly, is it simply "an unwitting illustration"?
If you do it deliberately in humour, is it simply "a humorous illustration"?

For example:

"There are only three kinds of people in this world: those who can count, and those who can't."

It has often puzzled me - what is that sentence exactly? Is it a figure of speech?
Yes, I know it might be a reflective joke on oneself, but is it something else besides?
Is there a word in English that describes it, for example, like "oxymoron", which is "...a figure of speech or expressed idea in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction"?

(This appears to be on topic.)

pilgrim · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2013, 03:46 AM »

(This appears to be on topic.)

Which one?

You'll have to make allowances for the fact that my formal education ended at the age of 10.

For years I thought that 'irony' was something you did after you did the laundry?

IainB · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2013, 05:29 AM »

Engrish as it is spoke/murdered.

IainB · « **Reply #17 on:** May 27, 2013, 05:33 AM »

...my formal education ended at the age of 10.
-pilgrim (May 27, 2013, 03:46 AM)

Did it really? How so? I'm impressed.
I always tried my damnedest to avoid attending school, but the best I could do was miss 53% of it (on average).

pilgrim · « **Reply #18 on:** May 27, 2013, 06:14 AM »

...my formal education ended at the age of 10.
-pilgrim (May 27, 2013, 03:46 AM)
Did it really? How so? I'm impressed.
I always tried my damnedest to avoid attending school, but the best I could do was miss 53% of it (on average).
-IainB (May 27, 2013, 05:33 AM)

By that age I could outrun the teachers.

My parents however were determined that I should continue my education, so they locked me in the pantry for several hours each day with a pile of textbooks.

I suppose you could could say that I'm shelf-taught.

The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth!

My comment, which has been quoted, is actually a true one and has to do with the system not being able to deal with individuality.
These days you hear of children going to college or even university at well below the normal age of acceptance, in my day it never happened.
Even now it is often a question of having sufficient money or knowing the right people - the first was out of the question for me and although I have since met several of the second it wasn't until many years later.

The one advantage that I had was that I could concentrate on anything and everything that interested me while ignoring the rest.
When I was older I spent 15 years studying everything I came across that related to human existence.
I started with religion and ended with quantum theory, having taken in history, philosophy, psychology, and numerous other things along the way, so I now know a certain amount about everything and nothing.

The more I learned the more I realised how little I(/anyone) knew.

(At one point I did consider being a genius........................but I refused to lower my standards.)
(Sorry about that but the alternative to laughing about it is to cry about it and neither would serve a useful purpose.)

Some years ago I was asked to talk to the teenage son of a couple that I knew, although his circumstances were very different to what mine had been he was facing some of the same problems.
So much for progress in education. (Or society for that matter.)

Tinman57 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2013, 11:42 PM »

^ Hahaha. Thanks. Well spotted. I hadn't realised I had repeated that. Always difficult to spot your own mistakes. Corrected now.

Is there a word in English that describes that as a figure of speech - I mean, describes a description of an error which itself contains an example of the selfsame error?
It has often puzzled me - what is that sentence exactly? Is it a figure of speech?
Yes, I know it might be a reflective joke on oneself, but is it something else besides?
Is there a word in English that describes it, for example, like "oxymoron", which is "...a figure of speech or expressed idea in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction"?
-IainB (May 26, 2013, 08:14 PM)

Gosh, I thought you did that intentionally! lol

Hmmm, Elucidation? Delineation? Ah, perhaps Exemplification?