Cloud-storage - safe & secure? Consider Wuala (it's encrypted as well).

[tomos]

Thank you for the support, Tomos.

I usually start by asking nicely. My emails to wuala started out nicely, progressed to polite, but firm and in the last one I told them they had to provide more support or I was taking my business elsewhere. Still have not gotten a response.

-ericalynne (January 03, 2014, 12:26 PM)

doesnt sound good

[IainB]

@ericalynne and @tomos + 2 others, would you like to join in a trial/experiment?
Just to help things along, I have today set up (for FREE) a new ID and Wuala Business account 30-day trial for experimentation and to see how it all works in practice.
If we experiment with this, then we might be able to discover/understand a solution to Erica's problems with Wuala (rather than experimenting on her existing Business account).

The Business account looks like it should be relatively straightforward, but, as they say, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating"!
The company name I have set up for this trial purpose is NJ.Dawood Enterprises. (It is not a real company name/person. Once set, this name cannot be changed.)
The group name I have set up for this is NJ.Dawood Enterprises-DCF Trial. (Once set, this name cannot be changed.)

Now, I would like to get some members on board. I am allowed a max. of 5 members per group, for the trial.
Members can access the group in two ways:

• 1. As existing personal members/users of Wuala. This could be @ericalynne, for example.
• 2. Via a website at a specified URL address and an associated key. (I haven't managed to get this to work fully, yet.)

I scanned for existing Wuala member's name "Erica Lynne", and got this result, so am unsure which is the "right" Erica:



I could invite someone specific (e.g., @tomos) to become a new member of Wuala (assuming he isn't one already) and join the group.



Or, I could invite anyone to become a new member of Wuala and join the group via a referral link.

Each time a new Wuala member joins this from an invite of mine, I gather that it will add 1Gb of storage to the account (there is a max limit to accumulate to the account of up to 10Gb this way, I gather).
To incentivise referrals, it will also give the new user 6Gb free to start with, rather than the usual 5Gb for new users.

I'm not sure, but I think for us to experiment with Wuala it is probably only of use for the purposes of examining @ericalynne's situation if we have new/existing Wuala users join the group (max limit = 5 members of a group), as this would reflect Erica's business account "model".

[ericalynne]

This "Erica" is ericawsc in wuala. So you can invite me now. What a nifty idea! Thank you!

[IainB]

Done.

[tomos]

I can give it a go later (say in 8 hours or so - only passing through now). Just downloaded it too - havent used it before.

[40hz]

These online storage providers can make all the security claims they want. Sad truth is, the game is over.

As things stand right now, it's basically pointless to be worrying too much about how truly secure any data is.

Any device which accesses, or data that can be accessed by a network, is either capable of being compromised - or is already compromised.

Happy New Year brave new world.

[ericalynne]

IainB - I do not see an invitation in my email. This is what my team members said too. I would send out invites per wuala instructions and they do not receive them.

40hz, I am mostly just trying to get my business records functionally secure and all team members to see and work on documentation for the same clients so we all know what is going on. We are in the US, where the Hipaa laws wreak havoc with ordinary communication and electronic storage. I actually argue with the people who monitor my security. It is OK to send information by snail mail, but anyone can steal a letter, copy a letter, send it to someone else. A letter can get lost in the US postal service. Same for faxes. Who knows who else is in the office with the fax machine? So to me, the fact that someone can "break into" the data and steal it, it just more of the same. However, no one asks my opinion. 

Erica

[ericalynne]

I found the invitation. It was in a wuala folder. Under "Notifications." This definitely solves at least one problem!

Once I accepted your invitation, the invitation disappeared. I accepted two invitations from IainB. But once I clicked out of notifications, I can no longer see IainB;s company and files. I saw them briefly as I accepted the invitation. Can't find them now.

If we can figure out how to get me to see IainB's files, then I may get this working after all.
Thanks! Erica

[tomos]

I can give it a go later (say in 8 hours or so - only passing through now). Just downloaded it too - havent used it before.

-tomos (January 04, 2014, 03:51 AM)

have decided to not go with this - it installs java which I dont want. (I removed on both machines here after spending about 8 hours clearing a trojan from a friends laptop in the summer, I decided java wasn't worth the risk - have managed well without it so far.).

Best of luck working it out

[40hz]

40hz, I am mostly just trying to get my business records functionally secure and all team members to see and work on documentation for the same clients so we all know what is going on. We are in the US, where the Hipaa laws wreak havoc with ordinary communication and electronic storage. I actually argue with the people who monitor my security. It is OK to send information by snail mail, but anyone can steal a letter, copy a letter, send it to someone else. A letter can get lost in the US postal service. Same for faxes. Who knows who else is in the office with the fax machine? So to me, the fact that someone can "break into" the data and steal it, it just more of the same. However, no one asks my opinion.  

Erica

-ericalynne (January 04, 2014, 08:07 AM)

Hi Erica!

I both understand where you're coming from and fully agree with you.

Like you, I'm in the USA. My client base is primarily in the regulated financial (i.e. brokerage, mortgage, fund) and legal sectors. So security and privacy is both a moral and legal concern when it comes to data and communications.

I only mentioned that nothing can be considered secure any longer because of the depths the meddling on the part of the NSA has reached. This meddling goes far beyond data intercepts and decryption efforts. The NSA's agenda has completely undermined security - and put all of us at greater risk - in order to make their own work and mission creep easier.

At this point we know that encryption algorithms, random number generation, national standards institutes, secure transmission layer technologies and protocols - along with commercial operating systems, security products and hardware have all been compromised in the name of "national security."

I actually asked a brokerage association (and later my local bar association) how to address their guidelines for security and privacy protection in light of what’s been going on. Their answer was: we don't know. Both refused to respond to my question as to whether it was even possible for their members to meaningfully assert compliance with existing state and federal laws regarding client privacy and data security since it is now obvious the entire underpinnings of their systems are pwned - and have been for approximately the last 10 years.

I think you hit the nail when you said "functionally secure." Which I would interpret to mean: Effectively safe from everyone - except the US government.

As it stands, you're absolutely right. That's about as secure as we can be.  For now.

-ed

[ericalynne]

IainB: I can now see your name in my wuala account as a contact. But I can't find the company, or if there are any shared documents. Except at one point, when I had a "groups" tab open, I suddenly saw the NJ.Dawood Enterprises as a group under my personal wuala account...BUT I can't find it again? Can you see that I have joined your company? Do you have some sample documents that I could try to edit to see if it works? I so appreciate your help.

Tomos, thanks for offering. I have to use Java for everything here. I appreciate your concern.

40hz: I agree with you. In my business, the Hipaa laws do not state specifics, so each institution or monitoring group sets different standards and it drives us all nuts.

The NSF fiasco is truly embarrassing.

Erica

[IainB]

@ericalynne:
I have your 2 x acceptances:




Here is a view of the test documents I have put up, together with comments.
You could try editing/adding to the comments, and editing the txt file.




@tomos: I shall send you a link to the anonymous web page for the group collaboration, when I can get it to work. You won't need to install Wuala for that.
EDIT:
The link is here.

Apparently anyone with the link can download and view, or share (i.e.,facebook, tweet, or email) the files from there, and when you click on the little red cloud it asks you if you want to download the Wuala client and view the files in the client application. Quite nifty.

[ericalynne]

IainB,

Thank you so much! I am making way more progress with your assistance than I did with wuala tech support.

I can get in and see your company, your group with me in it, and your files. I did manage to edit the wp file and it saved. (There is not an option to save, until you click to close out the document, then you can save.) I have added files to your company...some blank forms...and they show up there. This is really amazing. I have spent many hours over the last 4-5 weeks trying to get this to work.

Question: just to be sure...when you look in your business account, can you see any of my folders/files? I have not shared them, I just want to make sure I have the file sharing system working.

Also, do you see any way to sort files in wuala by last date modified? And I don't see anyway to have the documents available on my hard drive (ie, without internet access.) Dropbox does this automatically and Box.com offers it as an option. And, the search function in wuala doesn't seem very "smart." I can search, but without the exactly correct file name, it doesn't look for it. Windows search function doesn't see it, presumably because it isn't on the hard drive, but instead in the cloud.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Erica

[IainB]

@ericalynne:

I am making way more progress with your assistance than I did with wuala tech support.
____________________

==> I still can't understand why they could not be of more help.

I can get in and see your company, your group with me in it, and your files. I did manage to edit the wp file and it saved. (There is not an option to save, until you click to close out the document, then you can save.) I have added files to your company...some blank forms...and they show up there.
____________________

==> I could see your changes made to the txt file.

==> I could also see, open and comment on and edit the new files you added:

• Collier Fax.docx
• WualaScreenShot010514.doc

==> I could also see the document you added and deleted (it's in Trash):
 - Filename: Residential Habilitation Referral Process.docx
 - Heading: Suncoast Region Residential Referral Process (Revised July 2013)

==> Can you see in the Trash can too?

Question: just to be sure...when you look in your business account, can you see any of my folders/files? I have not shared them, I just want to make sure I have the file sharing system working.
____________________

==> I cannot see any of your folders/files. You would need to invite me to your Business group for me to be able to see YOUR group's files.

==> Do you want to try inviting me to your Business group to confirm it works OK?

Also, do you see any way to sort files in wuala by last date modified? And I don't see anyway to have the documents available on my hard drive (ie, without internet access.) Dropbox does this automatically and Box.com offers it as an option. And, the search function in wuala doesn't seem very "smart." I can search, but without the exactly correct file name, it doesn't look for it. Windows search function doesn't see it, presumably because it isn't on the hard drive, but instead in the cloud.
____________________

==> You can sort the files in Wuala by date modified by accessing them in Windows Explorer.
Whilst Wuala is running, it can provide access to the Wuala encrypted folders and files on drive W:.
To view this drive, type "W:" (without the quotes) into the Windows Explorer address bar.
Note: You can only view/operate on drive W: whilst Wuala is running on the client. It is an encrypted folder/file structure on your PC's drive that becomes invisible to the OS when Wuala is closed.
I think (but have not checked) that you can view and operate on drive W: whether ON or OFFline to the Internet.

Drive W: looks something like this in Windows Explorer (I use xplorer²): (scroll to the right to see the comment I put for the last file in the list)



You can operate on drive W: files as normal - including open and edit them, rename them. These changes are made to the copies on your PC's hard drive, and get synced to the Wuala Cloud copies.
So, you can sort files on the drive W: by the modified date field, and add comments - comments go into the NTFS ADS (Alternate Data Stream) for that file. I am unsure as to whether the ADS gets synced to the Wuala cloud-based version of the file. I suspect that it might not, and thus would only exist on the PC's hard drive. The implication of this would be that collaborators may be unable to access anything put into the ADS.

[ericalynne]

Hi IainB:

I can see the changes you made in the files in your company! I can also see in the Trash for your company! Hurray!

I set up a dummy group in my Safe Harbor company called "Safe Harbor-Testing."  I have sent you an invite to this group. You should be able to see my Forms folder and open and edit anything in there.

I knew you weren't supposed to be able to see files that were not shared with you, but just wanted to make sure.

That is such great news about opening from within Windows! Wow!

So, you can sort files on the drive W: by the modified date field, and add comments - comments go into the NTFS ADS (Alternate Data Stream) for that file. I am unsure as to whether the ADS gets synced to the Wuala cloud-based version of the file. I suspect that it might not, and thus would only exist on the PC's hard drive. The implication of this would be that collaborators may be unable to access anything put into the ADS.

I am not sure exactly what this means. You are saying that if I make any change when working with files on through windows explorer that these changes might not be synced to the cloud? There is a sync function that maybe can be used in those cases. I don't need to access files often when not connected to the internet, but it does happen. We can have power outages (I live way out in the rural areas) or I might be in a client home with no internet. It must be amazing to you, but most of my clients do not have internet. For most areas, I can pull out my iphone if necessary, but that is pretty slow and there are still areas I work in that have no internet and no cell signals! So I want to be able to access my files even if the internet is off.

I will now try disconnecting the internet and seeing if I can find the wuala files.

Thank you again for your kind instruction.

Erica

[ericalynne]

I can't access wuala files without internet connection. I can see the directory and all the folders in it, and I can see the files in the folder, but when I try to open a file it doesn't open.

I know that when I got on vpn, I can't open a file in wuala and I can't save one to wuala. For example, when I am on the vpn and I need to download a document, I want to save it to a wuala folder, but it won't let me. Vpn shuts down all my other internet access on the computer I am using.

Thanks again. I will now try to find my team mates who seem to be enjoying their weekends outside and not at the computer like me. 
Erica

[IainB]

The NTFS ADS is a potential red herring, as it may not be relevant to your needs/use of the file meta-data held on the Windows OS, but it just might be important to your data quality/integrity. To explain:

Terminology:
NTFS = New Technology File System; introduced at Windows NT and used in subsequent operating systems (though it is apparently being superseded in Windows 8 using some of the latest drives, by an "Advanced" file system).

FAT = File Allocation Table. The old or "legacy" Windows file system, still in use today and especially as the normal standard on USB RAM sticks.

If your hard drive file system is NTFS - which it probably would be for all Windows NT and later OSes - then some file meta-data is held not actually as part of a file but as a logically attached component called an ADS (Alternative Data Stream).
Refer Wikipedia NTFS

I gather that:

• the Comments field is one of several fields included as part of the ADS for a file under the NTFS.
  
  
• under some circumstances where you copy/move/backup files from NTFS drives to other media (e.g., USB RAM sticks (FAT), FAT hard drives, and even some/most networked drives), the ADS component gets left behind - i.e., it does not get copied with the data file itself. So, for example, you would lose any comments made for your files thus copied/moved.
  

A purist rule: Any loss of meta-data is a potential reduction of data quality/integrity.

Thus, if you use meta-data stored in the ADS, then you need to be mindful of this potential reduction of data quality/integrity when moving/copying your data files - and moving files back and forth to the Cloud is doing just that.
To work around this and to be on the safe side, you would need to define a discrete file as being your lowest common denominator for a logical data container (i.e., exclude the ADS component and associated meta-data).
However, in my case, I do not do this, as:

• (a) I regard every file on the hard drive to be a potential component of an information management database and to form an important part of data quality/integrity.
  
  
• (b) I regard file meta-data - and thus the ADS, which includes, for example, the Comments field - as an essential, integral and useful part of data. It has value in that it can be indexed/searched by the Windows system and Windows Explorer (and Explorer alternatives - I use xplorer²) and thereby made readily accessible and can be accessed by other applications. (I have some partial workarounds for avoiding the potential loss of the ADS, but I have not got all the risks of such loss locked down yet.)
  

[IainB]

@ericalynne:
Thankyou. I accepted your invite to the dummy group in your Safe Harbor company called "Safe Harbor-Testing."  I am able to see the Forms folder and open and make edits in there.
Using PDF-XChange Viewer (see PDF-XChange Viewer ($FREE version) - Mini-Review), I opened two PDF files at random, and made a Comment about one of them (AdmissionDoc 1 1 1.pdf).

The PDF files were:

• HrgReqForm.pdf (location W:\Groups\Safe Harbor-Testing\~FORMS\Appeal Forms\HrgReqForm.pdf)
  This document seems to be a single-page image, and the text within it is not searchable/copyable. The Document Properties say it was produced using "PaperPort 12", so it was presumably scanned but not OCRed. To make it of optimum use to a group, you might want to consider always OCRing scanned documents - at the point of scan - so as to immediately capture the text in the document and make that text searchable and extractable across the filing system and for all users.
  From memory, I think Paperport 12 can be set up to do that.
  Out of interest, I used PDF-XChange Viewer to OCR this document (took about 12 secs.) and saved it, so the OCRed text is searchable and extractable in that document now.
  
  
• AdmissionDoc 1 1 1.pdf (location W:\Groups\Safe Harbor-Testing\~FORMS\Admission Docs\AdmissionDoc 1 1 1.pdf)
  This document has 15 pages, and the text within it is searchable/copyable. The Document Properties say it was produced using "iText 1.4.8 (by lowagie.com)"
  

Using MS Office Word 2013, I opened the document HrgRep.doc (location W:\Groups\Safe Harbor-Testing\~FORMS\Appeal Forms\HrgRep.doc) and inserted a line under the document heading.

Using Wuala online and offline from the Internet:

• (i) With Wuala running and with an Internet connection, everything seemed to work fine, as above.
• (ii) I then disconnected from the Internet, and found that I could still view and manipulate files in the Wuala UI and in the drive W: (in xplorer²), however, it did not play very nicely and crashed xplorer².
• (iii) When I closed the Wuala UI, it hung and crashed. When I then restarted Wuala, it would not start without an Internet connection.

Conclusion: Wuala is not designed or does not work for offline use. (Confirms what you had already established.)
I am unsure whether messing about as per (ii) above is advisable - e.g., it might result in out-of-sync, corruptions or double-update conflicts in the documents.

General notes:

• Wuala Personal and Business seems to behave exactly as one would expect from the Wuala website support documentation.
  
  
• There is no offline functionality - except if you break things as per (ii) above.
  
  
• For security, the encryption seems to work very well - drive W: being invisible when Wuala is not running.
  
  
• Cloud usage has its drawbacks. In opening, closing Wuala documents, I found the performance laggy - this is on a typical (not very fast) ADSL connection sometimes via a VPN with about 10 hops (makes things slower) to the VPN node. Under all connection circumstances so far, it has been sluggish at my end. Thus, performance in data transfer to/from the Cloud might be very sluggish/confusing/frustrating for those of your users who may have a slow Internet ADSL or 56K modem(?) connection. Lag may become aggravated by larger data volumes in the Wuala group (needs testing to establish this).
  
  
• This has been a very instructive introduction for me to the Wuala Business package, and I would be able to post this up as a Mini-Review to assist others who might be contemplating using this.
  

Thankyou for inviting me to the "Safe Harbor-Testing" group. It has enabled me to trial Wuala Business from both ends - as a group founder and as an invited  group member.

[ericalynne]

IainB:

After all this exciting success, my team still cannot see or use the company files. I explained about the Notifications. They all had been sent invites previously. However, no one can see the invite. So I deleted everyone from the group and resent the invites. They still have nothing. I must be doing something incorrectly, but I don't know what. Do you have any suggestions?

Wuala also looks different (different options) depending on where I access it from. There are three ways to access it: from out of the program, from Windows Explorer, and online.

I also found wuala to be slow. I assume that is because the encryption part has to do its thing.

I will try to invite them to the safe harbor testing company and see if that works.

I am happy to know this exchange has had some benefit for you. You have been generous in your time.

Erica

[IainB]

...Do you have any suggestions? ...
__________________

-ericalynne (January 06, 2014, 04:54 AM)

What I would do is go through it in a controlled manner: sit down in the same room with one of these users, with both mine and their PCs connected to the Wuala group (safe harbor testing company) using our unique IDs, and go through it step by step with that user, so they can see my screen and I can see theirs at each step. You might then discover what the problem is.

Have you already tried that?

It might be as simple as (say) user error on the part of an inexperienced PC user, or that the Wuala interface is a bit odd or misleading/unintuitive.
Also, if not already done, doublecheck that users systems meet the Minimum System Requirements.

Sorry, I can't think of anything else to suggest. Let us know how you get on.

[ericalynne]

Thanks, I will do that. Erica

[ericalynne]

Thank you so much to IainB who helped me get wuala working for my tiny business. I spent the past week getting my team connected to our business data and so far looks good. IainB, I will now remove your testing company. If you post a review somewhere, I'd love to see it. Thank you. Erica

Just FYI, the last email I sent to Wuala requesting support was sent on 3 Jan 2014. Here is their reply, which was not sent to me until 9 Jan 2014.

Dear Erica,

Thank you for your patience.

Unfortunately we can not offer your remote support but I will all I can to help you. As I was informed, it looks like you're experiencing some sort of permission issue. Permission in Wuala are handled on folder level. Just right-click the folder and choose "Manage Group". The permissions are handled in the "Roles" tab.

We hope Wuala suits your needs. If you have any further question, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Gianluca Pirrera
Wuala Support Team

So I have to say that support is really poor. I even have, supposedly, premium support and that consists of emails taking a week or more.

Also, it was not a permissions problem.

Thank you again.

Erica

[IainB]

Thankyou Erica. I am delighted if you now have it all sorted and that the trialling/testing we did was of help/use to you. I learned a lot too, in the process!   

The Wuala people evidently do not seem to be geared up for what we might expect as full "end-user support".
Perhaps not all that much different to Google really...   

I shall eventually post a mini-review of Wuala in the DC Forum, based on this experience, and shall try to remember to send you a personal message about it, via your ericalynne ID on this board.

[IainB]

Shifting to paid-only service
Posted:  11. June 2014
By:  Gianluca

We are announcing our transition to a paid-only model and new pricing plans, starting today. In recent times, we were able to expand our user base exponentially. Our decision to switch to a new model will allow us to keep our focus on improvements and expansions to meet the increasing needs of our customers. It will also give us the possibility to introduce new services and expand our product range.

As of today, new accounts will not start with free included storage. Remaining customers will keep their free storage. You can now get 5GB for just 1.39$ a month or 12$ a year (you can find the complete pricing here). So head over to our pricing page and continue to save your files securely in the Wuala cloud, without worrying who has access to your data.

Wuala is not just a cloud storage provider. Instead, we offer an unique product and a premium service which provides our customers with highest security and privacy available, including full control and flexibility over their files through our client. Supported by Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Kindle our customers are the center of attention in our product development. Our functionalities give our customers the ability to collaborate in teams, without having to be afraid about the security of their data. And that is exactly what we want to focus on.

We are excited about the next step in our growth and we are positive that not just our existing customers but also our new users will benefit greater value through these improvements.

[phitsc]

Wuala is shutting down by 15th Nov. 2015.

https://support.wual...ala-shutdown-notice/