Author Topic: Win 7, XP mode, & other first install queries (Read 32687 times)

tomos · « **Reply #25 on:** July 21, 2011, 02:16 PM »

If you leave it split up the way it is now it'll bite you in the ass down the road when you start trying to troubleshoot something.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2011, 01:26 PM)

hadnt even thought of that aspect

My sense of organisation alone demands it be done properly!!
Performance too would surely be negatively affected the way it is now...

It'll have to wait till tomorrow at this stage though.
Lovely quiet machine anyways, thankfully

tomos · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:30 AM »

Start the machine with only one disk installed, the one you want Windows on. You can use the Windows setup program to delete the now booboo set of partitions and start over cleanly with only the 100GB partition and the 100MB boot partition on the same drive.
-Stoic Joker (July 21, 2011, 01:26 PM)

OK I disconnected one hard drive.
During the windows install I could only delete one partition, so I deleted the bigger one and leave the 100GB one which where I wanted Win7 anyways.

But this time round it doesnt say anything about creating a 100MB system partition.

I stopped it and started it again - no difference.
So I'll leave it install & see how it looks at the end - at least it's a quick install $:-\$

tomos · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:44 AM »

During the windows install I could only delete one partition, so I deleted the bigger one and leave the 100GB one which where I wanted Win7 anyways.

But this time round it doesnt say anything about creating a 100MB system partition.
-tomos (July 22, 2011, 03:30 AM)

Doesnt look like it created the 100MB partition $:-\$ or is it hidden under windows?
No, I'm fairly sure it should show....

Any ideas?

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:48 AM »

You can see the 100Mb partition if you look in disk management. It doesn't appear as a drive in 'Computer' because it doesn't have a letter assigned.

I thought you were installing XP too? I strongly recommend you install XP first so that mutliboot settings are set up correctly - otherwise you will end up with either an XP install that doesn't boot (and isn't on drive C) or a Windows 7 that won't boot without repairing it.

The other option would be to unplug the Win7 drive and install XP on the other drive - then use boot device choice in the BIOS at start up to select the drive to boot from.

tomos · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:51 AM »

You can see the 100Mb partition if you look in disk management. It doesn't appear as a drive in 'Computer' because it doesn't have a letter assigned.
-Carol Haynes (July 22, 2011, 03:48 AM)

No,
I had a look there. And on the web, apparently whats happening is this:

Windows 7 installation wizard will not modify existing partition which already been defined and allocated. The 100 MB .. partiton will only be created when user creates new partition on a clean and empty HDD (no partitions) [with the windows install dvd], or delete all partitions and then create a new partition during setup. Thus, system with hard disk already partitioned, and users wish no change to existing partitioning but wish to clean install can just format the partition in Windows 7 setup wizard before installing.

http://www.mydigital...nstalling-windows-7/

i.e. Windows only creates that partition if starting on a 'clean' (partitionless) hd
Do you think is it important or helpful to have it?
I could clean off all partitions using parted magic

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:52 AM »

I would wipe the drive and start from scratch.

By the way I updated my last post while you typed your response.

tomos · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:58 AM »

I thought you were installing XP too? I strongly recommend you install XP first so that mutliboot settings are set up correctly - otherwise you will end up with either an XP install that doesn't boot (and isn't on drive C) or a Windows 7 that won't boot without repairing it.
-Carol Haynes (July 22, 2011, 03:48 AM)

I dont know - I thought the general consensus was that going virtual was easier, and had said I would go that route (VM) ....
Do you think installing XP as well would be advantageous?

[edit] I think I'll just stick with the win7 install as both my xp disk are without service packs, or maybe one of them has SP1. Which would mean I'd have to slipstream before the install even.. [/edit]

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #32 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:59 AM »

I would wipe the drive and start from scratch.
-Carol Haynes (July 22, 2011, 03:52 AM)

Me 2.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #33 on:** July 22, 2011, 09:53 AM »

I thought you were installing XP too? I strongly recommend you install XP first so that mutliboot settings are set up correctly - otherwise you will end up with either an XP install that doesn't boot (and isn't on drive C) or a Windows 7 that won't boot without repairing it.
-Carol Haynes (July 22, 2011, 03:48 AM)

I dont know - I thought the general consensus was that going virtual was easier, and had said I would go that route (VM) ....
Do you think installing XP as well would be advantageous?

[edit] I think I'll just stick with the win7 install as both my xp disk are without service packs, or maybe one of them has SP1. Which would mean I'd have to slipstream before the install even.. [/edit]
-tomos (July 22, 2011, 03:58 AM)

Sorry I thought there was a debate before over whether to go the VM route or dual boot XP. If you think you are going to use XP regularly I would install it completely separately on the second drive (unplug you Win 7 drive) and then use the BIOS choose boot device to boot to XP when you need to - that way it is easy to remove if you want to remove it in the future as the two installs will be completely independent.

If you plan to keep XP around for the duration install it first and then Windows 7 so that it sorts out a simple multiboot system) - do this with only one drive plugged in.

If XP is just for belt and braces compatibility (and unlikely to be used much) install a VM.

The best solution really depends on what you plan to do with XP in the future!

tomos · « **Reply #34 on:** July 22, 2011, 01:48 PM »

^
> Sorry I thought there was a debate before over whether to go the VM route or dual boot XP.

No apologies! there was a debate but from what Cyberdiva said, I'm hopeful my older software will work okay. I guess I should just test the software at this stage and if it doesnt work, cut my losses and reinstall, but with xp first, as you suggest.

I hope to avoid having to use it at all to be honest

tomos · « **Reply #35 on:** July 22, 2011, 01:56 PM »

Re the second harddrive -
I ended up deleteing the partitions on it (3, including the 100MB system one)

But there is an extended partition left at the end of the drive(just called "Free Space")
If I try delete this I get the message:
"This is an extended partition. The partition will become inaccessible If you delete it."
-
that sounds like I'll lose all that space if I delete? (I googled that without much success)

I unable to resize it (in windows). Is there a windows solution for this - or maybe again a gparted one.

edit/ found some info about it, I dont know what I searched for first time round $:-\$
edit#2/ just deleted it, it was fine

tomos · « **Reply #36 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:31 PM »

> Sorry I thought there was a debate before over whether to go the VM route or dual boot XP.

No apologies! there was a debate but from what Cyberdiva said, I'm hopeful my older software will work okay. I guess I should just test the software at this stage and if it doesnt work, cut my losses and reinstall, but with xp first, as you suggest.

I hope to avoid having to use it at all to be honest
-tomos (July 22, 2011, 01:48 PM)

Well, it's looking good, my most important programme works fine.

$:-\$ I am on the default admin account though, I presume I should be using a normal account or does it matter so much in windows 7?

edit/ will have a look/ask here How necessary is the UAC in Windows 7?
Update, activated and have made first backup

THANKs FOR ALL THE HELP!!!!

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #37 on:** July 22, 2011, 05:59 PM »

Good news

Contro · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:33 PM »

I love the VirtualPC thing and will probably never go back to dual booting. I've got networkable virtual copies of everything back to DOS v6.22.

C: partition, I thought 40GB would be enough but it's bitten me a few times, if you got the space and are going to be using large apps go at least 60 or 80GB.

Recovery partions are only useful if you don't have the install media (IMO). If you really want to image, use a 3rd party app to image it to a completely different external drive that can be moved to a safe location.
-Stoic Joker (July 18, 2011, 04:00 PM)

Nice combination

Contro · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:39 PM »

New computer arriving probably tomorrow, and I have a few queries as I know SFA about windows 7 and want to install it
Hope you can help!

I'm installing Windows 7 professional. I'm interested in XP mode as I'm still using software from 1999
New machine will have 8GB ram, i5 2400 CPU. So I guess if XP mode is unsuccessfull I can use XP in a virtual whachamacallit (I have no experience yet with "virtual"!). [1] or should I install XP as well and dual boot?

Other aspects are, [2] how large a partition should I use for windows + software (very roughly) I wont be installing games but will be installing some spacehoggers like adobe illustrator.

Wont have to worry about page file till after install, but think I could chance disabling it, will wait see how I get on

[3] What's the story about win 7 recovery partition - and diagnostic tools? would I have to create a recovery partition like this:
http://en.kioskea.ne...a-recovery-partition
not sure if I need or want that, suspect I'd prefer to work with an image made once the software is installed.

I'm sure I'll have more once I get going.
TIA, Tom
-tomos (July 18, 2011, 03:49 PM)

What's the meaning of SFA ?¿?¿?¿?

Contro · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:41 PM »

thanks Carol & sj
it's a custom built machine, so I'll be doing a clean install myself. Havent got either yet (machine or windows disc) so just thinking ahead yet.

I do have a couple of XP licenses so virtual sounds like the best idea. From what I've heard about windows 7 it's easy enough to install etc.

The last time I installed XP, I used Parted Magic/gparted first to setup the partitions. Will probably just do that with the win install this time.

I've got networkable virtual copies of everything back to DOS v6.22.
-Stoic Joker (July 18, 2011, 04:00 PM)
that sound impressive
-tomos (July 18, 2011, 04:43 PM)

Nice indeed. I use gParted from an Ubuntu cd.

Contro · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:51 PM »

thanks Carol & sj
it's a custom built machine, so I'll be doing a clean install myself. Havent got either yet (machine or windows disc) so just thinking ahead yet.

I do have a couple of XP licenses so virtual sounds like the best idea. From what I've heard about windows 7 it's easy enough to install etc.

The last time I installed XP, I used Parted Magic/gparted first to setup the partitions. Will probably just do that with the win install this time.

I've got networkable virtual copies of everything back to DOS v6.22.
-Stoic Joker (July 18, 2011, 04:00 PM)
that sound impressive
-tomos (July 18, 2011, 04:43 PM)

Custom build machine. Sacred words for me.
Is the only way I know.
Beginning the box.
My old box of my first pc probably in 2013 will convert in a new pc with windows "x"

tomos · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:52 PM »

What's the meaning of SFA ?¿?¿?¿?
-Contro (October 17, 2012, 02:39 PM)

eh, it means "nothing"

or... (same thing)

tomos · « **Reply #43 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:55 PM »

Contro,
please, could you quote just the text that you are replying to?

Makes it easier for me (and others) to read understand what you are saying.
Thanks!

Contro · « **Reply #44 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:02 PM »

I use gparted to do my initial setups. But I'd strongly suggest running a Microsoft "fix master boot record" (i.e. run bootrec /FixMbr from the DVD on the harddrive prior to installing Windows7 "just in case."

Details and how-to here if you need them.

-40hz (July 18, 2011, 06:04 PM)

Ouwwww. I didn't. I am trying seven and install in the letter I: from xp, but now is C:
Don't worry . I'll a new entirely disk

By the way. i think the idea of maintaining the dual boot with several differents systems is dead.

But I don't like to take risks , so I have the foolish idea of continuing with my usage of several times installed the same system. Now seems no possible with 7.

40hz · « **Reply #45 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:04 PM »

In order:

1. Hard to say without testing. XP mode works for everything AFAIK. But Win 7 handles many legacy programs without it using its built-in in compatibility mode. So the full virtual machine may not be necessary depending upon what you're running. I'd try installing without and only download and install the XP mode VM if you really need it.

2. Impossible to answer without knowing exactly what you're going to be loading and how big a hard drive you have. If you give yourself about 100Gb that should easily handle Windows plus most anything else the average person is going to install.

3. If your machine came from the manufacturer with a recovery partition, leave it on the machine. If you're installing everything yourself you won't have one nor would you probably need one. It's something put there more for the convenience of the manufacturer when helping an in-warranty customer recover a totally messed up machine.

You can restore your system from images you create and keep on an external drive or other media. It's better your recovery images be on a separate drive anyway in case of hardware failure.

Just don't lose your Windows DVD or your images.

Contro · « **Reply #46 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:09 PM »

Contro,
please, could you quote just the text that you are replying to?

Makes it easier for me (and others) to read understand what you are saying.
Thanks!
-tomos (October 17, 2012, 02:55 PM)

Sorry . I'll take care.
Excuse me.

Contro · « **Reply #47 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:11 PM »

In order:

1. Hard to say without testing. XP mode works for everything AFAIK. But Win 7 handles many legacy programs without it using its built-in in compatibility mode. So the full virtual machine may not be necessary depending upon what you're running. I'd try installing without and only download and install the XP mode VM if you really need it.

2. Impossible to answer without knowing exactly what you're going to be loading and how big a hard drive you have. If you give yourself about 100Gb that should easily handle Windows plus most anything else the average person is going to install.

3. If your machine came from the manufacturer with a recovery partition, leave it on the machine. If you're installing everything yourself you won't have one nor would you probably need one. It's something put there more for the convenience of the manufacturer when helping an in-warranty customer recover a totally messed up machine.

You can restore your system from images you create and keep on an external drive or other media. It's better your recovery images be on a separate drive anyway in case of hardware failure.

Just don't lose your Windows DVD or your images.
-40hz (October 17, 2012, 03:04 PM)

For two years i am learning virtual machines. I have a lot.
My idea is use intensivily.
with 16 GB of ram I am beginning to see the "light"
On the base windows 7 (or windows "x") and a lot of virtual machines.

Contro · « **Reply #48 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:15 PM »

New computer arriving probably tomorrow, and I have a few queries as I know SFA about windows 7 and want to install it
Hope you can help!

I'm installing Windows 7 professional. I'm interested in XP mode as I'm still using software from 1999
New machine will have 8GB ram, i5 2400 CPU. So I guess if XP mode is unsuccessfull I can use XP in a virtual whachamacallit (I have no experience yet with "virtual"!). [1] or should I install XP as well and dual boot?

Other aspects are, [2] how large a partition should I use for windows + software (very roughly) I wont be installing games but will be installing some spacehoggers like adobe illustrator.

Wont have to worry about page file till after install, but think I could chance disabling it, will wait see how I get on

[3] What's the story about win 7 recovery partition - and diagnostic tools? would I have to create a recovery partition like this:
http://en.kioskea.ne...a-recovery-partition
not sure if I need or want that, suspect I'd prefer to work with an image made once the software is installed.

I'm sure I'll have more once I get going.
TIA, Tom
-tomos (July 18, 2011, 03:49 PM)

I was thinking about professional . But the technical assitant service recommend me premium edition.
But I am going to give you a good additional reason to select professional.

Premium edition is limited to 16 GB ram memory.

Profesional edition more than 100 GB ram memory.

Talk about the present ?
The future is the present.

tomos · « **Reply #49 on:** October 17, 2012, 03:17 PM »

In order:
-40hz (October 17, 2012, 03:04 PM)

hi 40 -
nice seasonal avatar

I think you're answering my questions from last year that Contro quoted... might help him (I'm sorted at this stage).