Author Topic: PocketPC or Palm? (Read 17439 times)

Josh · « **on:** October 12, 2007, 04:37 PM »

I am looking for opinions on a PDA/PocketPC type device. With my life growing ever more complex with more and more things to do, I need something portable I can use to organize it. Which of these devices do you recommend and why? What advantages/disadvantages does each offer? Is one better than the other for a particular lifestyle/task? What do you think.

Armando · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2007, 07:36 PM »

I've always used a palm. But it was more because of $ and size more than anything else.

The little z22 fits in my jean pocket, cost around 130$. It can't connect to the internet, play mp3s, etc., but I don't care because I don't need that. Only wanted an organizer to carry my schedule and todos with me, jot notes, etc.

If I was you, I'd look for the applications running on both palm and PocketPC and see what synchronizes well with the windows apps you'll want to use with it.

Josh · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2007, 08:10 PM »

Well, the primary uses of this device will be for Weight training logging and for calendar management since my schedule is becoming more and more complicated. Some contact storage and miscellaneous usage will be added, but those are the primary uses.

Armando · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2007, 08:41 PM »

Palm should do it then. The z22 is cheap and works well IMO. Pretty basic, but you could spend the extra money on what is probably the best app for outlook syncing on the palm : Keysuite (from Chapura).

Also, palm has better overall compatibility with different OSs and has more software. But if you're really into Windows, Pocket PC could be a good choice too -- maybe more expensive. Some say Pocket PCs are prone to crash, but contrary to the Palm, it can multitask and it integrates better with Office. Palm crashes too, but not too often if you treat it with respect...

Grorgy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:02 PM »

do you really need a computer for that?? sometimes the best solution is a notebook (paper)

Just a thought, of course I'd like one too lol

Armando · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2007, 10:09 PM »

do you really need a computer for that?? sometimes the best solution is a notebook (paper)

Just a thought, of course I'd like one too lol
-Grorgy (October 12, 2007, 09:02 PM)

for scheduling, contacts, todos, projects, etc., I moved away from paper for coherence and safety purpose : you can have multiple backup of your data (lost my paper PIM once and was very sad...), and it's easier to have data on my computer, ready to be searched, etc. Since I spend my days on my computer and since today’s' software (like desktop search tools, PIMs, etc.) are so powerful, it just doesn't make sense to use paper anymore -- for me, of course.

Josh · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2007, 07:51 AM »

I am with you armando. My wife doesnt understand how I can justify spending money on this device when I can just use a notebook. To me, with the amount of stuff I add/delete each day, A portable organizer like this makes far more sense. Anyways, Does anyone else have any input?

cranioscopical · « **Reply #7 on:** October 13, 2007, 03:11 PM »

I am with you armando. My wife doesnt understand how I can justify spending money on this device when I can just use a notebook. To me, with the amount of stuff I add/delete each day, A portable organizer like this makes far more sense. Anyways, Does anyone else have any input?
-Josh (October 13, 2007, 07:51 AM)

I use an old Palm (IIIxe). Keeps track of my life perfectly well. Fits in a shirt pocket. Uses over-the counter AAA batteries available just about anywhere I go. Been using computers for a long time but this is a different animal. Mind you, I have no need for more than basic calendar, notes, contacts. Don't want web, e-mail, applications -- have other tools for that stuff. No view on whether Palm/PocketPC is better.

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2007, 03:16 PM »

Many cell phones have these kinds of features along with qwerty keyboards. Maybe contact your cellular provider and see if you're due for a phone upgrade?

Armando · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2007, 05:27 PM »

Many cell phones have these kinds of features along with qwerty keyboards. Maybe contact your cellular provider and see if you're due for a phone upgrade?
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 03:16 PM)

Just be careful with these : a friend of mine called an important client at 3am by mistake. I don't know if it these mistakes are common, but they're not fun... (depending on how you look at them, of course)

Josh · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2007, 05:31 PM »

The problem with using a SmartPhone device is that I have to pay more for plan JUST TO SUPPORT the device. I cannot use a standard family plan like I have now, I have to upgrade to a data plan. This is why I want a standalone palm/pocketpc type device.

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2007, 07:54 PM »

The problem with using a SmartPhone device is that I have to pay more for plan JUST TO SUPPORT the device. I cannot use a standard family plan like I have now, I have to upgrade to a data plan. This is why I want a standalone palm/pocketpc type device.
-Josh (October 13, 2007, 05:31 PM)

I can understand that. However, those rules apply only if you plan to surf the web via the phone. All the other stuff they do (so long as the data stays within the phone) does NOT require any fancy "data" plans, no matter how hard they try to get you to believe.

Now, will they sell you a smart phone without a data plan? I can see that being a battle, or maybe not. Depends on the carrier. AT&T sold me a camera phone even though I explicitly turned down their data plan so I could transmit pictures via SMS. (But for awhile I thought the sales critter's head would explode. "Why not you want send pix? Everyone send pix. You not send pix. But everyone send pix. Man sure not want send pix?")

Fun fact: If you see a phone sold by your carrier that you want, but don't need a new/different plan than what you already have, you can often go on eBay and buy an "unlocked" version of that phone. Brand new, factory warranty, often for cheaper than the carrier's price. Swap your SIM chip into the new phone and ta-da, you're done. As far as EvilExpensiveWireless Co. is concerned you're still using the old phone.

Josh · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:22 PM »

Yeah, I would rather avoid that battle if I can. I really want a device I can take with me regardless of upgrades to my phone. When my phone comes time to be upgraded again in 2 years, I want to be able to retain all of my data. This is why a dedicated device is more preferable than one that "does it all". Chances are, after two years, the device will no longer be supported by the phone company and I will be forced to upgrade and then have two devices for this purpose. So, as far as this, I am going to stick with a dedicated PDA.

Dont take this the wrong way, I still greatly value your input

steeladept · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:27 PM »

...Now, will they sell you a smart phone without a data plan? I can see that being a battle, or maybe not. Depends on the carrier...
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 07:54 PM)

Verizon usually will not from my experience no matter what. They tell their salesmen that it won't work at all without a data-plan. It is a bunch of crap, but it is a requirement for them to sell it at the price listed. At least that is from my experience. Of course I also have yet to see a half-decent offering that is not in the "business" line anyway.

Fun fact: If you see a phone sold by your carrier that you want, but don't need a new/different plan than what you already have, you can often go on eBay and buy an "unlocked" version of that phone. Brand new, factory warranty, often for cheaper than the carrier's price. Swap your SIM chip into the new phone and ta-da, you're done. As far as EvilExpensiveWireless Co. is concerned you're still using the old phone.
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 07:54 PM)

Careful - Not all phones use SIM chips. AT&T does, as does T-Mobile, but I know Verizon does not and I don't think (though I may be wrong on this) Sprint/Nextel do in all new phone lines. If you are open to anything, I STRONGLY suggest a phone with a SIM chip. It makes transfers/upgrades/etc. much easier and cheaper.

As for stand alone systems, I haven't run into any in quite a while. My experiences, however, were with Windows Mobile. I had it on a Dell Axiom, and it was awesome for my uses. I have been looking for one with a built in phone for quite a while, but none are out there that fit my criteria - the biggest one (though hardly only one) being a Verizon carrier. Verizon has many issues, but less than others I have dealt with and SO many of my friends and family are on their network that it would double my monthly bill if I were on another carrier. But this is a tangent again

The reason I like Windows Mobile so much is simple. Strong integration with Office (especially Outlook). I use it most extensively with the calandar and contact tracking. The synchronization with Outlook was flawless. As a bonus, the ability to open Word and Excel files if needed was built in as well. Lastly, media player was more than adaquate for listening to music. All of this as well as Mobile Explorer (which I never used) was built into Windows Mobile. I really can't say why it didn't take off better except for the entrenchment of Palm (well, until RIM came along and offered E-mail Synchronization on the fly).

Lastly, have you considered a RIM device (blackberry if you didn't know). They are as stable as a rock, offer good email connectivity, and do everything else you asked about. Depending on the model you can get them with or without a phone and/or camera as well. Down sides - yes you would need a data plan since that is it's main selling point and the calandar and contact lists are as basic as you can possibly imagine. In fact, the calandar is so basic and annoying to navigate that this is why I hate them. But hey, to each his or her own.

By the way, if you want a PocketPC device but have difficulty finding one because you don't want the phone, let me know. I can part with my Axiom with little difficulty (as long as I find it and the parts - I recently moved and am not sure which box it is in $:-\$ )

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:32 PM »

Dont take this the wrong way, I still greatly value your input
-Josh (October 13, 2007, 08:22 PM)

No problem! The only thing I use my phone for is making/receiving calls -- for exactly the reasons you cite. I didn't even want the stupid camera.

:-)

Ralf Maximus · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2007, 08:47 PM »

Verizon usually will not from my experience no matter what. They tell their salesmen that it won't work at all without a data-plan. It is a bunch of crap, but it is a requirement for them to sell it at the price listed.
-steeladept (October 13, 2007, 08:27 PM)

Why am I not surprised? When my wife died (some time ago) I tried to cancel her Verizon cell phone account. The customer support rep tried to talk me into keeping it! It was surreal. Then, when he sensed his sales pitch was failing he switched tactics and told me that cancelling the contract would incur a $175 "penalty" and that it would be cheaper for me to just keep the phone service going!

ON MY DEAD WIFE'S CELL PHONE.

Yeah, Verizon's a top notch organization.

steeladept · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2007, 09:09 PM »

Why am I not surprised? When my wife died (some time ago) I tried to cancel her Verizon cell phone account. The customer support rep tried to talk me into keeping it! It was surreal. Then, when he sensed his sales pitch was failing he switched tactics and told me that cancelling the contract would incur a $175 "penalty" and that it would be cheaper for me to just keep the phone service going!

ON MY DEAD WIFE'S CELL PHONE.

Yeah, Verizon's a top notch organization.
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 08:47 PM)

Bummer! All the more so because they were so wrong by their own policy (as well as by law I think)! When my Mother died earlier this year, they tried to get me to keep her account and I told them they were out of their minds. First of all, I have my own account, second of all I wasn't on the account, and third of all I didn't need another phone. They promptly sent me to customer service who took a copy of the death certificate, closed the account, and sent me on my way. There was no fees whatsoever with the proof of death I had. Was this from a Verizon store/customer service, or was it an "authroized reseller". I find the resellers are worse that worthless, personally, but the company stores are as good as the service. Barely passible, but about average for the industry - UNFORTUNATELY! Anyway, sorry to hear about your situation.

Deozaan · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2007, 09:18 PM »

Why am I not surprised? When my wife died (some time ago) I tried to cancel her Verizon cell phone account. The customer support rep tried to talk me into keeping it! It was surreal. Then, when he sensed his sales pitch was failing he switched tactics and told me that cancelling the contract would incur a $175 "penalty" and that it would be cheaper for me to just keep the phone service going!

ON MY DEAD WIFE'S CELL PHONE.

Yeah, Verizon's a top notch organization.
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 08:47 PM)

I have a similar anecdote except I was in the terrible position of being the customer service employee. I had just finished training and started working phone support for Directv when someone called in saying that the owner of the account had passed away and they needed to close the account.

I had been trained that I always had to warn the customer about a possible cancellation fee if the account still had an active contract. I felt like such a jerk, but I did it. Then I transferred him to the retention department.

Shortly after that I learned that account owner death was one of the few exceptions to the cancellation fee. I still felt like a jerk, but was relieved to know I wouldn't have to do that again.

suleika · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2007, 04:39 AM »

I used Palm for years but I switched to Windows Mobile when offered one by my phone provider as a free upgrade with an extremely useful 3G monthly data offer. I thought it would play better with my data/gtd system - at least I could easily read .txt files on the memory card, which was surprisingly awkward to do on the palm. I also wanted to finally integrate phone and handheld - my old Sony Clie was not a phone.

I like it but it is slower than palm. And somewhat buggier. But all in all the difference has not been as great as I thought - the experience is much the same, including the annoyances. However, many of the available equivalent third-party programs are much more sophisticated on windows mobile than on palm, which I like.

Stephen Fry (of all people) writes about smartphones here. And here's a (somewhat old) Palm v. Pocket PC FAQ.

Jammo the OrganizedFellow · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:05 AM »

Fun fact: If you see a phone sold by your carrier that you want, but don't need a new/different plan than what you already have, you can often go on eBay and buy an "unlocked" version of that phone. Brand new, factory warranty, often for cheaper than the carrier's price. Swap your SIM chip into the new phone and ta-da, you're done. As far as EvilExpensiveWireless Co. is concerned you're still using the old phone.
-Ralf Maximus (October 13, 2007, 07:54 PM)

This ONLY works with GSM phones and their carriers. Cingular/AT&T and T-Mobile are both on GSM networks.
So when I switched from Cingular to T-Mobile, I switched to their service in a shop, bought my new T-Mobile Dash online, and while waiting for shipping of my new phone, I unlocked my old Audiovox SMT5600 (Cingular branded) smartphone to work on T-Mobile. And used my old phone on my new network. I thought it was slick as hell, so I also unlocked my Dash.

BACK ON TOPIC

I'd highly recommend a Palm device. As much as I love my smartphones, you may rather have a dedicated device JUST for this. Keep your old phone, upgrade when comfortable. Not ALL geeks have uber-cool phones!!

Josh · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:29 AM »

jammo, have you ever used a pocketpc? I am trying to find someone who has used both and can make a recommendation based on such.

Jammo the OrganizedFellow · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2007, 12:26 PM »

jammo, have you ever used a pocketpc? I am trying to find someone who has used both and can make a recommendation based on such.
-Josh (October 18, 2007, 09:29 AM)

Yes, I've owned a few.
I started with the Sony Clie TJ-25, then when I cracked the screen at work I replaced it with a cheaper mode, Palm Z22.
I don't remember why I hated it so much. The Clie had an incredibly cool UI.
I then bought a Dell Axim X5, I gave it to my brother.
It was pretty speedy for its time, 400MHz processor. The Axim X51 was faster, 624MHz. I wish I had that one.

But I'm a tech-geeky-guy. I just finished converting Transformers to 320x240 resolution to watch at work on my Dash. LOL.

Josh · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2007, 01:10 PM »

What would you recommend for my purposes as described above? I am really needing something like this and want to make a purchase soon. I have yet to really DELVE into the pocketpc world due to lack of information. Any help you can provide would be outstanding and very much appreciated.

suleika · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:05 PM »

You mentioned Weight training logging and calendar management specifitally, so I'll base my answer on that:

On both devices, the out-of-the-box calendar functions are pretty basic, but somewhat similar. Palm is faster, PocketPC has (I believe) a bell and whistle more, perhaps. If you wanted some more sophistication, you would need a third-party program such as the long-established Pimlico DateBk6 for palm or Pocket Informant for Pocket PC. I have found PI to be much more flexible and interesting than DateBk6, but, as I keep mentioning, slower.

I don't know much about weight training logging software on either platform. When I was researching it for myself on the Palm in 2003-4 I found available software to be inflexible, clunky and over-priced. For all I know there could be a killer app there now, for either or both platforms. And both platforms will sync with spreadsheets, so you could go that route. Otherwise, the basis Palm memo function is very fast and easy but has no formatting at all. Pocket PC handhelds can read text files more easily.

The chances are that which platform suits you best will be more to do with your current set-up and costs than which is overall "better". Also, what third-party software appeals. Also, if you are considering taking the machine into the gym, how sturdy it is.

As to taking into account future phone upgrades, you probably don't need to worry too much about that. I transferred from Palm to Pocket PC (with some annoying hours of work) lately, and although I coughed up for new Pocket PC software, I only spent $20 (I think) on software to help the conversion along. As long as Palm has a community, you'll be able to get your basic stuff off it. Just watch out for third-party apps on either platform, in case they lock you in.

If I were you, this is what I would do:

Decide on a budget
Check out what is available to buy in palm and pocket pc within your budget
Check out software on both platforms for specific things you want to use it for
Work out if there are bottom-line things that are very very important to you, and research them and/or post here about them. The platforms vary in so many small ways, but if a couple of those ways coincide with your must-do's or must-not's, if could helpfully inform your choice. Such things as syncing with PC data, reading data from and file storage on memory cards, publishing or sharing of calendars, and compatibility with different desktop operating systems, are quite different.

Hope this helps.

Armando · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2007, 08:40 PM »

If you wanted some more sophistication, you would need a third-party program such as the long-established Pimlico DateBk6 for palm or Pocket Informant for Pocket PC. I have found PI to be much more flexible and interesting than DateBk6, but, as I keep mentioning, slower.
-suleika (October 18, 2007, 02:05 PM)

after trying many solutions, I very much prefer Keysuite than DateBk... For one main reason though : better compatibility with Outlook.

The chances are that which platform suits you best will be more to do with your current set-up and costs than which is overall "better". Also, what third-party software appeals. Also, if you are considering taking the machine into the gym, how sturdy it is.
-suleika (October 18, 2007, 02:05 PM)

If I were you, this is what I would do:

Decide on a budget
Check out what is available to buy in palm and pocket pc within your budget
Check out software on both platforms for specific things you want to use it for
Work out if there are bottom-line things that are very very important to you, and research them and/or post here about them. The platforms vary in so many small ways, but if a couple of those ways coincide with your must-do's or must-not's, if could helpfully inform your choice. Such things as syncing with PC data, reading data from and file storage on memory cards, publishing or sharing of calendars, and compatibility with different desktop operating systems, are quite different.

Hope this helps.
-suleika (October 18, 2007, 02:05 PM)

Well put. I agree with all that.