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6201
General Software Discussion / Re: Question for Excel experts...
« Last post by superboyac on February 09, 2006, 10:49 AM »
Also, be sure to check out the Formula Auditing toolbar (View: Toolbars).  It will draw arrows to and from dependent cells.
Wow!  Awesome.
6202
General Software Discussion / Re: Question for Excel experts...
« Last post by superboyac on February 08, 2006, 07:32 PM »
Thanks.  I found out it was the "Ctrl" + "~" combo that toggles the formula box you mentioned.  Very cool!
6203
General Software Discussion / Question for Excel experts...
« Last post by superboyac on February 08, 2006, 05:57 PM »
I have a spreadsheet that was written by someone a long time ago, and I'm kind of trying to reverse engineer it.  I'm trying to see what he's doing by following the formulas.  But there are so many cells to navigate through...is there some kind of way to generate a list that tells me what the formula in each cell is?  Something like

Cell M1 = A1+B1
Cell M2 = A2+B2

And so forth.  I just want a list so I can quickly follow everything without having to jump around forever.

Thanks for any help.
6204
General Software Discussion / General brainstorming for Note-taking software
« Last post by superboyac on February 07, 2006, 11:55 PM »
I don't know if this is a good idea, but I wanted to start a thread where we can all just brainstorm about note-taking software.  Anything you want to say, wishlist of features, what you like about existing programs, what you'd like the ideal program to do.  I know a lot of us would like to see a good review of this genre done here at DC, and we all know how hard that would be to accomplish, so maybe this thread could be a place where ideas can be collected.

In my opinion, it would be absoutely impossible to do a traditional review where we'd pick a couple of programs as the "best in this category.  Everyone has different needs for this type of software.  I think the review will ultimately have to be such that we subcategorize the software out there and say, "Well, if <this> is what you're trying to do, then <this> is the best software for it."  So, different programs can be categorized as the "best" depending on what specific task is trying to be accomplished.  There's no way we can collectively pick one program as the ultimate.  Heck, if it was just me, I can't even say which program is the best for me!
6205
Mouser, I didn't even know about this program all this time!  Wow, you're amazing, this is a cool.  I want to spend some time with it and figure it all out, it looks like I can really use it.

So you're also making your mark in the notetaking software genre?  Man, I hope you know what you're getting into.  Pretty soon (if not already) everyone is going to expect this program to do everything and anything just the right way.  I hope it doesn't burn you out like the Keynote author.

I think pretty soon, I'm going to start a thread here at DC for the discussion of these notetaking software (unless it's already been done...I'll do a search first).  If we ever complete an official DC review of these softwares, it will be really, REALLY impressive.
6206
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 07, 2006, 04:09 PM »
Thanks mouser, I don't want this thread to go off-topic but that news was sad to me.  I know only us computer geeks will understand this, but a guy like that hanging his hat up evokes similar feelings to a famous athlete retiring.
6207
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 07, 2006, 10:40 AM »
Wow, I jsut went to Keynote's site and read the post from OCtober that the author put up.  I think it deserves a link:
http://www.tranglos..../free/closedown.html

It's very sad.  With the shutdown of Keynote, I think the software world has lost a great talent, an innovator and pioneer, and, in many ways, a kind of genius.  Although it sounds like he will use his talents in other places, it really sucks that Keynote won't be developed anymore.

By the way, can anyone here read Polish?  There's a link in his message where he explains why he can't go on with KeyNote, but it's written in Polish.  Can someone give a brief summary?  It sounds very interesting and heartfelt.
6208
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 07, 2006, 10:30 AM »
Memory Mate has simple but useful Boolean searching.
Yeah, I remember this program a little, it was very cool.  There were some very interesting ideas back in the day that have really stood the test of time.

Which begs the question, have you considered pushing the financial boat out and trying Info Select for Windows?  It's $249.95 and isn't shareware, though there's a 30-day money-back guarantee.  Link here: http://www.miclog.com/
Oh yeah!  I tried InfoSelect a couple of times over the past two years.  It was pretty good, but if you read the beginning of my review for this addressbook software, I mentioned that I am now at a point that I want the addressbook to just be an addressbook and nothing else.  InfoSelect does everything under the sun.  It was too much for me to use it as an addressbook, and I felt like the other features were done better individually on other programs.  I am always highly skeptical of all-in-one solutions to anything.  It's just a personal philosophy.  I don't like all-in-one printer/scanner/copiers, I don't like all-in-one software solutions.  I'm more of a pic one and do it right kind of guy.  That's not to say I don't think any of them are good, I'm just skeptical.  It's hard enough to be the best in one area let alone many areas simultaneously.

Just had a quick look at the Web site, and was put off by the size.  The free version is an 8.4Mb download, the payware one 18Mb.  It's not just the download time and hard-disk footprint, I tend to expect that programs that size are going to be slow to load, which puts me off using them.

I mentioned to kfitting on another thread that there are lots of Keynote-type outliners now - and that's getting a problem in itself, because they aren't mutually compatible and you don't want to commit to the "wrong" one.
You know, I agree with you about the size thing, but the program runs pretty light.  The reason why it's big is because it has this sketchpad in it where you can draw and paint.  And the pay version is much larger because it has an OCR engine to translate the handwritten notes in the sketchpad.  But Evernote, is not really Keynote-type.  Evernote is good for entering a bunch of random notes in, and finding them very quickly.  It has some unique auto-filtering features also.  Keynote is totally different.  You can't find things as fast in Keynote, but you have the power to organize notes very well in Keynote.  I love Keynote, what a fantastic program.  If Keynote would just resume being actively developed, I think it would leave a lot of other programs in the dust.  I'm kind of leaning towards Mybase as a note collection utility, because it has some features I'm looking for, but Keynote overall was still a little better in many ways.  Between you and me, I think there's a whole bunch of people who would get quite excited if Keynote started becoming actively developed again.  When is this mystery open-source version going to be ready?

And Total Commander  cheesy  depending on how you set it up, and that's how I've set it up now as being most intuitive.
TC has filter-as-you-type?  I didn't know that!  I love TC and used it for a couple of years.  Then I discovered Directory Opus, which does so much more, and I eventually stopped using TC.  Although, there are still a couple of things I wish Dopus did like TC, but I harp about that on their forum.
6209
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 06, 2006, 07:33 PM »
superboyac,

Sounds like AZZ got the mix right in the sense that if you had immediate search on the whole record, you'd get too many "false drops."  Think of trying to look up someone called Theodore - how many times does one use the definite article?  The lady who mentioned AZZ Cardfile in PowerToolsSoftware actually said that she used it for quotes/one-liners/short paragraphs, so it looks like she implicitly agrees.

You obviously need a heavier-weight, more structured program...

I think you're right.  AZZ got it right for the purpose they were trying to achieve, which is a general note accumulating program.  But for an addressbook, I think you want it like CardScan, to search all the fields.  Let's say, for some odd reason, you know 10 people named Theodore.  Most likely, if you have 10 people who are named Theodore, you have a pretty big overall list of contacts.  Therefore, you'd want to just type Theodore, and immediately shorten that list down to the 10 people.  But you'd want to be able to do the same for anything, even phone number.  Like, let's say you knew someone's number started with 398- but you didn't know the rest, it would be nice to just type in 398 and get the list in front of you.  It's just more powerful that way.  I'll never say no to more power, because you can always turn features off, but you (as the end-user) can't add features.

AZZ is a great program, it used to be one of my favorites.  But I've now come to need a more specific and powerful program.  As I've moved to more powerful note-taking programs and addressbooks, I've slowly come off of AZZ altogether.  It's just part of my evolution as a poweruser.

Have any of you checked out EverNote?  It's a cool, quirky program that reminds of of a suped up version of AZZ.  It also has the filter-as-you-type feature that works on any word anywhere in the notes, but it's interface is pretty interesting and unique.  And it's free, to boot!

If you can't tell, I'm in love with the filter-as-you-type feature.  I'm immediately attracted to any program that has it, and more and more programs are using it.  PowerMarks, EverNote, CardScan, Essential PIM, Directory Opus (so cool!), Find and Run Robot...that's all I can think of for now.
6210
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 11:53 PM »
Here's what you do to simply toggle signatures -- go to options > quick templates
Now, click new.  First type %ISSIGNATURE in there and hit enter. Under that, put your signature as you want it.  You can create as many signatures as you'd like in this way.

What the %ISSIGNATURE macro does is tell it that this isn't a message template but, rather, just a signature.  When selected, it will do one of two things -- if you already have a proper sig delimiter in your message (-- ), it will replace everything under it with the quicktemplate you just applied.  If you do not have a sig delimiter then it will append one and your sig text to the bottom of your e-mail message.

So, for example, you could automatically include your main quicktemplate signature at the bottom of your e-mail by putting %QINCLUDE="MySig" at the bottom of your message template.  You could then switch signatures as easily as utilities -> insert quick template (or ctrl+space).

I made a quick template for the signature, and it works well.  I'm having a problem using the signature quick template inside my message template.  When I put the line %QINCLUDE="MySig" at the bottom of the message template, it inserts the text of my signature, but without the "-- ".  Am I supposed to put in the template:

--
%QINCLUDE="MySig"

or just:

%QINCLUDE="MySig"

I'm not sure, I thought by defining the quick template as a signature, it would be inserted in the message as a signature, but maybe I'm wrong.
6211
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 05:25 PM »
Nice...it's good to be back, right?  You just reminded me, I should get back to a good backing up regiment soon, before something happens.

I remember how big a decision it was for me a couple of weeks ago to go from Pegasus to the Bat.  You have no idea, for years, I would defend Pegasus with my life.  But the Bat just did too much and had too many features.  I think Pegasus actually got me into this "poweruser" mode back in 1997.  I had moved into an apartment at school, and whoever lived there before got this thick magazine about computers, and inside it, there was a little shootout for email clients.  At the time, Eudora was the standard (my, what's happened to them?!) and I was surprised that they picked Pegasus as their top choice as far as customizability and power.  So, I gave it a shot, and have loved it ever since.  But it's a one-man show by the author (David Harris) and I don't think he's able to implement new features as quickly as the shareware email clients like the Bat.  But he's done an amazing job, and his philosophy is probably in sync with guys like mouser, where he really wants to provide quality software for free.

Boy, that brings backa lot of memories...
6212
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 05:00 PM »
Pity, because it begs the question: did you try AZZ Cardfile,  http://www.azzcardfile.com/

I saw this mentioned in the Yahoo! Group PowerToolsSoftware, mentioned by someone who said it had "immediae entry search," which I think is what you mean.

Yes!  You're right.  AZZ is a great program also, I used it for years.  It does have the immediate entry search, which is great.  I even think it's the first program where I noticed that feature.  However, it only searches the titles of the cards, not the actual contents of the card.  So, assuming the title only includes the contact name, that's all you'd be able to search.  If you want to search the card contents with AZZ, you have to use a seperate search dialog which opens up another window, etc.  Not worth it.  Also, AZZ is a bit too freeform for an addressbook, there are no fields.  So you wouldn't be able to do some of the more complex things with it.  The difference with CardScan's search and AZZ's is that CardScan's filter will look at every single field.  If you notice in my screenshot, I just typed in an area code, and the list shortened down to the contacts that have that area code.  You can do anything...zip code, street name.  That's what makes it so powerful.
6213
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 04:54 PM »
fantastic.
you know witha  little bit of work and combined with m_s's stuff on A-book, and maybe a quick commentary on other programs saying why they don't quite make the cute,  this would make a great full dc review..

i wonder if superboyac or superboyac and m_s could be convinced to team up and flesh this out into a full review? i think you're half way there already..
True.  I wanted to comment a bit more on other programs and on other features, but the article was getting pretty long as it is.  I wouldn't mind polishing it up with m_s for a full review.
6214
Mini-Reviews by Members / Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 05:23 AM »
Addressbook Software Mini-Shootout

I've been wanting to do this for quite some time, and so here it is.  Ever since about 2000, I've been on a constant hunt for the perfect addressbook software, and while some come pretty close, none of them come SATISFACTORILY close (personally speaking that is).  I have a fairly strict set criteria for what I am talking about, and here they are:

--The software must be lightweight and minimal on resources (I think most of us here expect this from any software)
--The UI should be as simple and efficient as possible.  No convoluted processes to do simple tasks, and none of that Mac-like bubbly interface which takes up a lot of space without doing much practically.
--The program should be strictly an addressbook.  I'm not looking for a PIM or note-taking utility or any of that other stuff that typically comes bundled with addressbooks or contact managers.  This is strictly an addressbook.  Names, telephone numbers, email addresses, etc. and that's IT!
--Ability to store at least a couple of pictures for each entry.
--Ability to add custom fields.
--A filter-as-you-type search that filters your contacts as you type each letter.  Just like the quicksearch in The Bat!, the PowerMarks search feature, Evernote's search feature...it's becoming quite popular now for a lot of programs
--A phone-dialer
--Good import/export capabilities
--Ability to auto-recognize and standardize the formats of certain fields, like phone numbers.  For example, whether you enter a phone number as xxx-xxx-xxxx, or (xxx) xxx-xxxx, or xxxxxxxxxx, it should convert to some standard that you pick.
--When a contact information is displayed in the summary pane, the information should be automatically laid out in an efficient manner.  Blank fields should not be shown, and each field should not be simply displayed in a separate line.  For example, combine first and last name together so it looks like a full name; put the phone numbers in the upper-right hand corner.  Put some addresses below in the lower left-hand corner.  My point is, use the space as efficiently as possible.  Don't simply just list them in a column and not use some space on the right side.  I'll talk about this more in the programs I mention below.

And here are a couple of features that you won't find in any software, but I think would be great for an addressbook software.
--A sophisticated relationship feature that will allow you to link certain fields together when needed.  For example, people in the same family that have the same last name should be able to be linked to a common last name, so that you don't have to edit each last name seperately.  Also, if I say that someone is the husband of someone else, then the wife's entry should automatically add him as the husband also.  Same goes for shared phone numbers, so if 5 people in the same house share a number, that number should be linked, and not entered seperately for each person.
--The other feature is a way of entering contact information into other programs (email messages, documents, etc.)  Some kind of hotkey which would bring up a menu at the cursor position, where you can choose a contact and automatically insert the text at the cursor.  For those of you familiar with clipboard managers, it would work the same way.  I use ARSclip, and I can hit a hotkey which brings up a list of the things in my clipboard, then I just pick one and it is inserted at the cursor.  So, the addressbook software can do the same for, say, email addresses or something.

----------
I've probably tried dozens of these programs, and there are way too many to even list.  But most of them are pretty crappy, and a lot of the others don't really offer anything special, and there are others that do way more than just an addressbook, and some others that look like they were written 20 years ago.  That being said, let me give a brief summary of some of the notable addressbook softwares I have come across:

One of them is called Handy Addressbook.  This program is very simple, fast, and does the job pretty good.  You can enter all the information you want, and you can also add custom fields.  It has a quicksearch feature, but it only goes by the first letter in the last name (or was it the first?  I don't remember).  Either way, it's pretty useless, because let's say you have 7 names that start with "S", it would jump to the first name, and then you'd have to manually scroll down to the one you want.  A lot of these addressbooks do it that way, which isn't really helpful.  All it does is jump the highlighted selection around.  To do a real search, you have to click on a search button, which opens a seperate window, and brings up search results inside that.  I don't like that...it's too slow for something like an addressbook.  Addressbooks should have filters which quickly filters the master list down to the search results, not bring up another window or merely jump the highlighted entry around.  Another thing I didn't like about Handy Addressbook is that you can't add pictures to the entries.  One of the good things about it is it has this Server component which allows you to share your database from a central computer.  Another thing I like about Handy (and all good softwares should do this) is that when it display's the contact information, it will only display the fields that are not blank, so you won't see a bunch of empty fields.

One good freeware addressbook is Phonedeck, from the same guy who did KeyNote.  This one is pretty simple and fast also.  However, the interface is a bit inefficient.  The quicksearch feature is like Handy, where it just jumps around using the first letter of the name...lame.  It supports custom fields which is good.  No picture support.  It's an old piece of software anyway, and a lot of the program feels a bit outdated.  Like I said, it's not very efficiently laid out, by my standards.  But it is relatively powerful, especially for freeware.

One of the interesting programs I came across is HiContact, from GemX, the makers of TexNotes.  This program doesn't exist anymore, but it was kind of cool.  It had a really nonfunctional interface, but I will admit that it was beautiful.  It didn't have any good search capabilities, nor did they make it easy to navigate through address with either the keyboard or mouse.  What was different about the program was they put an unusually heavy emphasis on it's ability to store pictures with the contact entries.  It wasn't just an afterthought like a lot of the other programs that support pictures.  You could zoom in on it.  I think it even had that cool zoom effect that follows the mouse cursor like in Screenshot Captor.  It was just fun and different.  It's layout was also particularly colorful and html-ish.
----------
Now, I'll get into the two programs that I think are the best that is out there right now.  Again, these programs are good but they are still a ways off from being good enough for the extremely picky...like me (and you hopefully!).  The two I have chosen are A-book by Xeletrix, and CardScan.

I won't get too detailed about A-book since m_s did a very comprehensive review of it here at DC already:
https://www.donation...dex.php?topic=1155.0
But I will add my thoughts about it.  A-book is a very good program.  It can do just about everything you need an addressbook to do.  Most of my criticism about it is about subtle functionality issues and other nitpicky items.  It has PLENTY of fields for each entry for addresses, phone numbers, even family members (however it doesn't do any complex linking as mentioned above in my wish list of features).  It also can store a picture for each entry.  However, for some odd reason, you can only see the picture if you double-click the contact to go into it's field-editing dialog.  It doesn't show it in the summary pane, which I felt was kind of dumb.  Another thing about the summary pane I can't stand is that it uses a separate line for each field.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 2_41_39 AM.png
None of these fields (address, number, name) are particularly long, so it doesn't make any use of the width of the screen, and makes the list much longer than it needs to be.  However, the UI in general is very nice, and highly customizable as far as colors, arrangement, and size is concerned.  And while it doesn't have the filter-as-you-type feature I love, it's search routine is pretty fast, and relatively efficient.  One excellent aspect of A-book is it's ability to configure your data in categories with trees and subtrees.  And one entry can be shared in several books, but it still is only one entry so it makes good use of linking.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 2_50_29 AM.png
For example, the same person can be in a "friends" book and "coworkers" book, but it's still just one entry.  One bad part of A-book is that if you have a bunch of contacts that have the same phone number or address (like coworkers) and that number changes, there's no quick way to change them all at once.  This is where my complex relationional linking thing comes into play.  Another bad thing is that you can't add any custom fields to the program.  It's not really a big deal because it has so many default fields, but still, it would be nice.  Of course, like all good addressbook software, it won't display empty fields in the summary pane.  Another aspect of A-book I do not like is that it is (I think) html based or java based in it's programming.  I know that it's summary pane is controlled by html (or xml) because you can change the look of it using xml templates.  I never like java-based programs (or html, I don't know, I'm not a programmer) because they are always slower and bulkier than C++ coded programs (you programmers know what I mean).  For example, as you click on different contacts, there's always a little delay before it appears in the summary pane.  It's annoying.  I hate clicking on something and noticing a delay before the action.  That's why i don't like the fancy fade effects in XP and the menu animation stuff.  But now we're getting personal.


Ok, on to CardScan.  CardScan is great, great piece of software.  Unfortunately, it is not available as just software.  It is one of these software that comes packaged with the hardware they are trying to sell, which in this case is their business card scanner.  So, unless you are willing to spend a couple hundred bucks for an addressbook software (albeit, a good one), then you're out of luck.  Of course, this its biggest drawback.  But I will still review it from a software's standpoint.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 2_53_04 AM.png
My favorite thing about CardScan is that it actually has the filter-as-you-type "QuickSearch".  I love it, you type in a couple of letters of the name, or the first few numbers of the telephone number, or just the city or zip code, and immediately the list filters down to a few contacts and you can quickly find the person you're looking for.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 2_54_29 AM.png
That is highly functional, efficient, and everything that a contact manager search feature should be.  However, I will mention that it's keybaord navigation is not very developed, so you after typing in the quicksearch letters, you have to use the mouse the rest of the way.  But that's ok, I don't think it's geared toward the poweruser market.  While the program is kept up to date, some parts of it still feels a little Windows 95-ish.  The data entry form is very old-fashioned.  It has a ton of fields, and you can add custom fields, although in a pretty convluted way, and only two types of fields like phone numbers and email addresses.  It doesn't have any kind of family members fields like A-book.  You can tell this software is geared towards businesses and not for personal use.  It does allow you to store two pictures per entry, BUT only if you use the scanner that comes with the software (or another scanner).  You can't import pictures that you already have on the computer or anything.  Part of this is because the two pictures are really meant for the front and back of the business card you are scanning, and the software does some OCR stuff to fill in most of the fields.  Also, unlike A-book, the program seems to be written in C++ so everything responds instantaneously.  Also unlike A-book, it's summary pane efficiently organizes the contact info to make good use of the space, I really like that.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 3_02_56 AM.png
However, it doesn't have the complex tree, sub-tree organization that A-book offers as far as categorizing your contacts.  But it kind of makes up for this by being able to have multiple files (contact databases) open at once.
Screenshot - 2_3_2006 , 3_07_56 AM.png
----------

Well, that's about it for my mini-shootout of addressbook software.  I feel like I'm kind of an expert in this area, if I knew how to program, I'd write a really good addressbook software.  I hope mouser or someone will eventually take on this project.  I think that the programming in Screenshot Captor and FindandRunRobot can be used in an addressbook program.  For example, the filter as you type search in F&RR can be used, and the multiple pane layout of SC can be implemented in a contact manager sort of way.  Whatever the case, it's software that really isn't done right yet in anything available right now, and maybe that's because not enough people need or want it, but I think if people saw a good one, they'd use it.
6215
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on February 03, 2006, 02:39 AM »
That's great, allen.  I'm glad you also got something beneficial from this thread.  That sucks about losing the 3 years of email, I would have been so pissed.  I consider email like letters, part of your personal history.  Just a few days ago, I was showing my cousin the Bat, and we were reading some of our old emails from almost 10 years ago...one of them got us cracking up to tears because I was basically informing him of my discovery of "these things called mp3's" and how amazing they were.
6216
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on February 01, 2006, 11:51 AM »
I have yet more to say...

I find this MicroEd text editor thing in the Bat fascinating!  I like how you can switch between the stream/column/line mode for highlighting and the fact that you can start typing anywhere is cool.  But what is the history behind this editor?  How does it make writing more efficient?  It's cool to play with and all, but I wanted to hear how this feature is used by the veterans.
6217
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on February 01, 2006, 10:57 AM »
OK, I understand about the signatures.  I've got to say, it's not the simplest process, but it is really cool.

Here's a kind of weird question...what do people put in their templates with this kind of power?  I mean, what kind of emails are people sending out with the Bat?  I can see myself using the templates for setting up my replies, signatures, and different kinds of new emails, but there are so many other things to use!  I'm just wondering what kind of crazy complex emails people are writing using this stuff, it would be interesting to find out.
6218
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on January 31, 2006, 06:32 PM »
Yeah, it's a fairly high-volume list, but I'll tell you what--there are few, if any, questions that go unanswered there.  The archives are here:
http://[email protected]/

Another cool thing, related to the templates, "cookie" text -- you can specify an external file or copy/paste into the cookie field in your account settings -- using the cookie in your signature %cookie% will print a random line from that file! So you can have a random quote in your message.  Very cool.
I checked it out, it's definitely a good forum for the Bat, now I know where to look for answers.  That cookie thing is cool.

You should get back to the Bat...a little bit each day, spend a few minutes at a time, you'll be ready in no time!

Here's a quick question:  if I want to pick between a variety of signatures (say 4 or 5), how do I do that?  Do I have to make a different  template for each signature?  Or is there a signature manager somwhere?  Pegasus has a drop-down box in the message composer window where you can pick a signature, so that's why I ask.
6219
Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on January 31, 2006, 03:37 PM »
To view the message list go to view -> show message list.  See if it is following the order that folder is sorted by -- if so, you can just change the order by clicking the column you want once or twice to insure it's pointing the messages in the right order.  Remember, it'll read top to bottom when you're following.
Yes!!  That's it!  Thank you so much.  I've been trying to figure that out for the last two weeks.  So, the folder list in the main 3-pane view is different than the message list when you open up ani individual message.  I wonder if there is a way to have the two synchronize to each other to avoid confusion.  You can see how it would confuse a newbie to sort the list in the main window, and then open up an indivdual message and see that it is sorted differently.  I'm assuming all of this can be controlled somehow with the "view modes" manager.  I'll have to look into that this week sometime.

As for the forum, I have no idea -- never been there.  I was actually talking about the e-mail discussion list 'TBUDL' -- which is where the real Bat geeks hang out.  Of course, if I can answer your questions I'm more than happy to--not trying to chase you there.  I'm just saying, I'm not the -best- man for the job.  I'm a little rusty, haven't used TB in a while.  Although you're making me strongly consider it again, I miss it.  You should see what you can do with the reply templates with a little regex/tweaking Wink
So that's where the real users are, eh?  I'll have to check out the list.  But I don't want to get that heavily involved yet.  I'm already on too many lists as it is.  Is there a webpage where you can search the archives of the discussion list?  As for templates, I haven't got into them too much besides some simple tweaking of the general reply, new message, etc. templates.

So, I'm curious, what do you use for email now?  Webmail?  Gmail?  For someone who seems to have spent so much time with something like the Bat, I find it surprising that you'd move away to something else.
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Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on January 31, 2006, 10:19 AM »
Allen, thank you.  You really know the program well!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that is controlled by the sort order.  When you're viewing a message, you can view the message list by clicking view > message list or something to that effect.  Give you a look at how they're sorted.  I may be wrong, but I believe you can have a separate folder view setting for the main message list and for the popup message list display.  That may be why your results are somewhat unexpected? Conflicting view settings?
Hmmm...I really can't find what you are talking about.  Maybe it's different for the newer versions of the Bat or something, but I can't find any popup message list, nor can I find where the view settings are that control the next/previous settings.  I see where the "view modes" are, but changing the default sorting there doesn't seem to affect how the next/previous buttons work.  I'm having such a hard time with this.  I posted this issue in the Bat forum like 3 or 4 separate times, and no one has suggested a thing.  I can't figure it out.  If you can look into it more, I'd really appreciate it.  My problem is that I'll open a message, and I know how the list is sorted (because I did it, obviously), but then I'll click next/previous, and I'll get lost because the buttons ignore my sorting method.  I mean, it shouldn't be this hard to simply go down and read messages as I've sorted them.

Fortunately for you, you're totally wrong on this point Wink It's not immediately obvious, but try this: Right click on your toolbar, select "customize".  Here, you can modify any of the toolbars and/or menus in TB, including the assigning of hotkeys/shortcuts.
Yes, I was completely wrong.  I see that now, so that's great.

Actually, TB does support this.  It's in the right click context menu under Message, i think.  Should be . . . F4 to quote selected text. Maybe. I know the feature is there, anyway.
Ah!  Beautiful!  I kind of had a feeling I just missed this one.  Problem solved.

The help file has been a source of nagging for TB users for as long as I can remember -- almost a decade.  While they've made some strides in recent years to update the help file, it still falls short.  I don't know if they'll ever catch up.   There are a few user made help sites and the mailing list -- those are what have kept the bat going -- it can be a bit daunting without a little help and those sources do help, especially for getting a handle on the more advanced features.

Here is an excellent source for TB related information, including the TBUDL mailing list.
http://www.silversto...om/thebat/tbfaq.html
Of course, I'm aware of the FAQ and the forum.  I've posted there a few times already.  But it's a little inconvenient to have to search forums to find the explanations to settings and options in the program.  I really feel that the help file should cover that.  Forums are more for ideas and problems that the developers couldn't anticipate.

Ok, thanks again, allen.  It looks like you've solved all of my problems so far, except for this sorting/navigating business.  Hopefully, we'll find the answer to taht also.
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Best E-mail Client / The Bat! (Some constructive criticism)
« Last post by superboyac on January 30, 2006, 10:47 PM »
I thought I would offer some constructive criticism for the Bat! in an effort to bring to the forefront some of the issues that I have with it, considering that I just migrated to it after nearly 10 years of dedication to Pegasus Mail.  The Bat really is the most powerful email client available and I'd like to do what I can to further make it the best and most complete email client available.  There may already be solutions to some of the problems I mention, and if you know it, please don't hesitate to share it here.  Being a rookie, I'll admit that i haven't figured everything out.

(1) My first issue is the navigation through the message lists or folders.  My problem mainly arises when you double-click a message to view it in a separate window.  There are two buttons (Follow Next/Previous) and what they do is use the date of the email to go to the next/previous email in the folder.  I find this confusing because "Next" really means the next oldest, and "Previous" means the previous newest email.  In other words, the Next button will send you back in time chronologically, and the Previous button will send you forward in time Chronologically.  I like to read my email in chronological order, so I want next to mean the opposite of what it's doing.  This wouldn't be a problem if those two buttons followed the order that the mailbox is sorted in the window, because then the user can control what the buttons mean simply by changing it's sorting method.  But that feature is not available.  The only way this can be done is if you use the "up/down" key while scrolling through a mailbox with the message preview pane on.  But it would be nice to navigate the same way USING BUTTONS when messages are opened in their own window.

(2) Hotkeys:  programs this powerful generally have a sizeable amount of keyboard shortcuts (hotkeys).  The Bat is no different.  However, most of the hotkeys are preassigned and cannot be changed (except for a handful of "System" hotkeys).  I'm of the opinion, that they should allow the user to make the hotkeys fit their needs.  No big deal, but why not?

(3) Selective quoting in replies.  This is a feature I got used to in Pegasus.  When you reply to a message, typically the entire message gets quoted using the ">" symbol.  In Pegasus, if you highlighted a portion of the original message and then hit reply, you have the option to only have the highlighted portion quoted.  I know that you can just delete the parts you don't want, but it was a real handy feature.

(4) The Help file:  initially, I was extremely disappointed by the help file that comes with the Bat.  However, I later realized that it's better than I gave it credit for.  But it still is not as good as it should be.  I strongly believe that any checkbox and any word that is found anywhere in the preferences or options, should have the exact same word somewhere in the help file with a description of it.  Why add toggles and features and not explain it in documentation?  I think I couldn't find the descriptions of several optionsin the help file or anywhere else.  Also, next to the OK and Cancel buttons in the preferences dialog, there is also a Help button, but all it does is take you to a screenshot of that particular part of the dialog without any explanation of the options there.  The best way to do this, personally, is to have that little question mark button in the upper right hand corner, where you can click it, then click on a option, and have a little ballon explain what that option does.
Also, going back to keyboard shortcuts, the Bat has a lot of them, but there's no section in the help file that lists them all.  They list a few of them, but not all, like they should.  Fortunately, someone else in their forums has compiled a supposedly complete list of them, but it should be an official part of the help file.


Anyway, that's it for now.  I don't mean anything derogatory by all this, I'm doing this in hopes of helping others and helping the developers improve their program.  It's obvious that they care about power and customizability since they have put so many features into their program, so adding some more should be right in line with their philosophy.  Any advice/suggestions is appreciated, and as I become more experienced with the program, I will add more to this thread.
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General Software Discussion / Re: Most under-rated media player?
« Last post by superboyac on January 30, 2006, 06:32 PM »
SOmeone here mentioned a player called Light Alloy (for video files and DVD playback).  I tried it and it is really good.  Very lightweight and lots of customizable, powerful features.  The only problem is that it costs $30, which is a bit much considering that MPC is free and you've probably already payed for a DVD player.

As a sidenote, I think more developers should find a kind of middle ground as far as pricing of software goes.  There's a lot of good freeware out there, and there are a lot of good shareware programs that usually cost $30 and above.  But there isn't much in the $5-10 range, which is what would be attractive to a lot of guys like us who like cool little programs here and there, but don't want to shell out $30 a pop.  That's why this site is so cool, because we get a lot of useful little programs for however much we want to donate.  But you can't expect everyone to have the same philosophy as mouser (you're one of a kind, man).  Anyway, that's my rant for the day.
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Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat - how to customize?
« Last post by superboyac on January 27, 2006, 02:09 AM »
Thanks mouser so much.
The outbox explanation makes sense now.  I think I'll queue, that's how I always did it before.
I've already checked out the different pane arrangements, that's one of the first things I tried in the Bat.  I used Pegasus before, and you have total control on how you want the desktop to look, you can put anything anywhere without any kind of restrictions.  Personally, I don't like the whole default 3-pane preview thing that seems to be standard for email.  In the Bat, I've settled on the "Full-Height Account Tree" arrangement so I can  see all my accounts easily.  I also have message preview turned off so the left side is just a long list of everything in that box, which I like.  However, I still haven't figured out how to navigate up and down the list according to how I've sorted it.  Like I said, the follow next/previous buttons don't go by the sorting method in the box, but strictly by the message date.

I don't like the preview pane because it shortens the list for the mailbox AND it shortens the window for the message.  I like my message window to be about 60-80% of my screen so I do as little scrolling as possible.  I know it's out of the norm, but that's my preference.  My mailboxes are quite large also, so I want to see as many of my messages as possible, not just 10-20 of them.

I checked out Ritlab's online knowledge base, and it seemed like someone asked a question pretty similar to my list navigation issue, but he didn't get a clear response in my opinion.  It was one of those, "Why in the world do you do it like that?" responses instead of saying it can't be done or here's how you do it.  I think the answer is it can't be done.
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Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat - how to customize?
« Last post by superboyac on January 27, 2006, 01:23 AM »
Hi, it's me again.  I just bought the Bat with our discount here (thanks donationcoder!), and I have migrated all my years of email into it and am trying to figure everything out.  I have a lot of questions that I am having a hard time getting answered, I was wondering if users here could help me figure it out.

I went to the Bat website and postd some questions, but no one answered.  I also wen to their Support link and this weird form opens up with a Ticket ID, and I don't know what it's for.  I also browsed through the help file that comes with the program, and I find that it barely explains any of the Bat's features and how to use them, given that there are so many features in the program.  Am I missing something here?  Is there some secret user manual to this program somewhere or what?

I also clicked on the "information request" link under help in the program, which sends an email to the Bat people, and in it I asked for a user manual or something, but I don't even know if that is what that link is for.  Something is odd here, I feel like information is being kept from me for some reason...

I'm really not understanding how to just read messages in the order that I have sorted without using a preview pane (just a personal preference of mine, I like the separate window).
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Best E-mail Client / Re: The Bat - how to customize?
« Last post by superboyac on January 24, 2006, 10:48 AM »
OK, more questions...
1) What's the difference between the "sent mail" box and the Outbox?
2) I still can't seem to control the follow next/previous buttons...they seem to always work in the same direction no matter how the mailbox is sorted.
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