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426
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Feature request : all with mouse
« Last post by kfitting on August 11, 2005, 07:20 AM »
Besides, middle mouse button is used for different things depending on the app (AutoCAD pans, Opera is customizable).  I like the idea of choosing the paste hotkey!

Kevin
427
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 10, 2005, 08:18 PM »
Sounds like a good plan to me.  I look forward to future development!

Kevin
428
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Another tool....
« Last post by kfitting on August 10, 2005, 12:21 PM »
FOund another website with some clipboard tools on it.  As well as some other stuff...

http://www.softvoile.com/  found on Shellcity.net

KEvin
429
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 10, 2005, 09:13 AM »
Speaking of database errors, I got an access violation from CHS last night when I shut down my laptop.  I didnt close CHS first, I just shutdown.  Beyond that, I have no other information.  Let me know if you need more... I can try and look.

Kevin
430
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 10, 2005, 07:46 AM »
Ok, terminology should be good now.  I agree with what you're saying.  In particular I agree with this comment:

so right now, preset views (defining look of program and sort order of column,etc.) are always UserLocal.
and virtual nodes (which define custom filters on records) are always DatabaseLocal.

it sounds like you might really want both to be both.


Like I said before, the more I think about this, CHS has 90% of what is required, it just needs some tweaking as far as user data entry and tree structure is concerned.  GUI-wise you  have everything required.   All thats needed are a few more bullets in your Yet-To-Do list and CHS will be a database/clipboard tool.  Your initial observation of my idea was correct... I was trying to be picky and stubborn!! 

Kevin
431
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 10, 2005, 05:50 AM »
Yeah, that makes sense.  While it would be cool to be able to filter through all databases I can see where that would be almost impossible.  Really, CHS is almost what we're talking about, all you have to do is take out the clipboard monitoring and add a few tiny features.  Not that this means it's trivial to code, however! 

So right now nodes are kept with the database?  I thought you said multiple files would be needed for different views.  Granted, views and nodes may be two different things, I was just using them as synonyms.  If they are in different files, user/file trees arent too big of a deal.  If they are in the database, they kind of lose most of their usefullness.  THe whole point is so some views stay with the file and whoever opens it sees those views, but if I want a certain view for a task I'm doing, I dont necessary clutter other people's view with my garbage.

I think being able to show records in the tree would be a cool thing... more for clipboard stuff than a generic database.  THough, if you can figure out a way to do it you may as well give the ability everywhere. 

Database-wise I think you have 95% of the functionality already in CHS.  The biggest change is in the tree structure.  The database still needs:
- editable cells
- adding/deleting columns
- method for scripting (possibly the hardest, I dont know)

The Tree structure should have (not needs, the program would still be awesome if only one database could be opened at a time!)
- user/file nodes
- Multiple databases in one tree

GUI wise... I dont know.  The current GUI would get you 90% of the way there I think.  Granted, the pane that shows the clip itself isnt needed, or the modify button.... unless you wanted to allow people to store large amounts of text.  How are the actual clipboard contents contained now?  Are they merely a field in the database presented in a textbox instead of a cell?  If so, the GUI from CHS may not need to be changed at all.  All you would need to add are the things stated above (along with all the other stuff you already have on your plate!!) and make a way to turn clipboard capturing/spellcheck etc on and off.  You can already change the view if you dont need to see the clip pane.  You already want to make it so that different nodes correspond to different column arrangements.  If you add the ability to have the program change views on database change, you would be fine.

Ideas, ideas, ideas.  Hopefully it's possible!

Kevin
432
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 09:19 PM »
Hmmmmmm.... So nodes would not contain views (filters) into a database, they would contain databases?  In some ways this is awesome.  Like you said, one program to view all kinds of databases.  I like the idea of that.  But, could nodes have different types?  Right now I can see the desire for three types:

- database node (contains entire database like you suggested)
-filter/view node (could be below a database, or could be high level allowing to filter through multiple databases at once?)
-user defined (ie, drag the records you want into the node)

wow. That's cool.  And highly useful. 

Concerning user vs file nodes.  Basically, the tree structure the program shows the user is based off of two things: the node structure contained in the file and the node structure the user has on his desktop.  This way I could have certain nodes (read filters) for specific work I'm doing, but not affect others who are using the same database.  But, we could also have common filters that everyone would be able to use.  As more databases are managed, this gets slightly more confusing... but still a worthwhile idea to consider.

Concerning the collecter software you mentioned.  I looked at the screenshot... I personally don't like it.  I realize I may be in the minority (see below) but I would prefer a straight table view.  The other problem is that you have apps for DVDs, apps for CDs, apps for books, apps for blah.  One specific database for one specific thing.  I love excel for this type of data storage... but imagine Excel with filtered nodes and the quick filtering system a la CHS.  Yes I realized the virtual nodes in CHS, exactly how opera handles email and I love it!  I think every program should come with them (well, maybe not every program...).

Concerning Brilliant database, one of the reason I'm not intrigued by it is that it has all the forms stuff.  Forms are cool, but then you have to set them up.  This program would be ready to use almost out of the box.  Import your excel spreadsheet, create some new nodes with rules and you're there.

cracksloth had some good posts over on the Keynote forums about data storage and how certain types of data are best stored certain ways.  He argued that a note program doesnt benefit from a database behind it, but there is data that does.  In other words, I think "mini database" fits CHS better than notes program. 

All of that rambling aside, I understand your concern for creating an app that only one person will use.  I wish others would join in here and give some kind of feedback.  But, if you make it generic enough, people will find uses for it that you never imagined (look at Keynote).  If people want a clipboard tool, they have it.  If they want a to do list, they have it.  If they have a collection they want to organize, they have it.  And, if you can implement what you're talking about, they can have it in one program shell!  I could go from searching through my parts list database to looking at what tasks I have going on right now, to looking through the clipboard to find that errant piece of data I copied three days ago.  The power here is phenomenal.  Don't understand all the multiple database stuff?  Ok, use one database at a time. 

Sorry, I am extremely biased about this program.  I would love to see it come about.  BUT that is because it fits MY working style.  You need to decide if the extra work and sweat are worth it.  However, if you code it generic I believe you could have your cake and eat it too.  I defer to you and to the opinions of others.... but this would be awesome!

Kevin
433
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 07:42 PM »
The more I think about this, the more excited I get.  I can think of bunch of things I could use a program like this for.  From applications at work (personal database for parts, lists of all types) to uses at home (organizing collections).... wow.  Once again, a database would work, but databases require so much programming and setup time.  Besides there are lots of people that use Excel for storing data.  This would be (for data only!) a glorified Excel. 

Concerning trees: it would be kind of neat (though another level of complexity) to be able to have file specific nodes and user nodes.  File nodes would travel with the file.  In my scenario, amongst the team we could have certain nodes for certain parts of the trainer.  But, my user nodes would stay on my harddrive.  When I open the file, the program looks at the file nodes, then the user nodes and builds the tree from them.  This way I could make my own searches and have access to them without cloggin other people's views. 

Couple quick things:
- import/export to excel is key!  We must deliver our wirelist in a common format, plus people shouldn't have to reenter all their data.
- Minimal impact on the user's machine.  Registry keys should be avoided as much as possible, no-install version, etc.  Perhaps user ini files would work.

Man, I'm getting all excited about this.  Going to be hard to wait, but some things are worth waiting for.  Your the programmer!

Kevin
434
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 07:24 PM »
Wow... going nuts posting?!  Heh heh, let me try to answer these questions.  I agree, that the more general you make it, the better it will fit many people's needs.  With that in mind, here are my ideas:

- Viewing/Modifying date wouldn't be bad... they could just be a field in the table.  Same with other columns.  I would allow these to be customizable.  A database that is 100 meg that contains every piece of data under the sun isn't real helpful in my case, though it may be in someone elses.  Perhaps a quick interface to make columns that auto-update (date/time, computer login name, etc).

- A hierarchical tree isn't really necessary.  Not that I would complain if you included it, I just don't see how it would help under the circumstances.  I basically see a tree and database as two different ways to represent the same data.  If you could make the tree easily reflect the database... then maybe it would be useful.  (sorry, I'm going to brainstorm out loud... I may work myself into a contradiction).  Using filter nodes could have some uses... especially if you are using the database to keep track of objects around the home.  However, I think it should be thought of as the database influencing the tree rather than the tree imposing structure on the database.  SUMMARY: yeah, it might be nice to have a tree.  A mixture of filtered nodes and user defined nodes (user defined nodes would allow a user to drag a database record onto them, or multiple records at once) would allow you to keep search results handy for later use. 

Whooo... going in circles here! Perhaps a two pane view, tree and database, would work.  Actually, the tree might prove really useful since databases usually use forms to customize user interaction.  Nodes would allow user interaction but require no programming.  I can also see where they would allow you to set aside certain search results for later work.



Ok, in other words: I like your ideas.  So long as the main focal point is the database table itself, I think it will work real well.  Sorry I rambled, but that's how I think!  Any questions let me know. 

Kevin
435
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 06:07 PM »
Ok, point taken on the single files bit.  I think it would be better to hold the users hand on this one... only because our CM (configuration management) process doesn't make it real easy to keep multiple files together on check-in/check-out.  It would be much easier to just have one file for the user to manage.  But, multiple files would still work!

Scripting.  Let me give you the example that I feel is the most involved.  First some background:  in our flight simulator (the aircraft is the MH-60R for you aviation fans) we need to keep track of every wire along with various information (wire type, size, length, starting point, ending point, etc).  There are quite a few wires that connect to other wires and at times it's EXTREMELY handy to be able to enter in a node and find a trace of every wire along a route.  I.e. from a power supply to a specific light bulb in the cockpit.  Ok, don't lose me here, I know as an engineer I tend to get lost in details!  One of my coworkers wrote an excel vba script that, given any node, traces it back both ways to its end points (if you start at the beginning, it only goes one way, obviously).  This script saves valuable time when troubleshooting, especially when your wirelist is 40,000 lines plus.

Basically, it would be awesome to be able to interact with the data in that level of detail.  To be able to step through the table, make comparisons, keep a log in the background...  That's why if you could make the table accessible to AutoIt the problem would be solved.  I don't think it's worth writing your own scripting into the program, but making external hooks would be nice.  That way people could use the program to store the data, sort it, search it, but if they came up with some kooky odd-ball "requirement" they could add it on their own.

I know, I know, you're saying "why not just use a database."  Well, the biggest reason is none of our team has experience programming databases.  All we need is something light and fast to store lots of lines in and be able to write scripts to pull certain data out.  Database setup is too much work! especially mid-project)  Excel works fine except we have 40,000 lines and another 20,000+ waiting to be added!  Excel runs out of space and also becomes rather clunky.  But, having seen the power and awesome sort/grouping/filter capabilities of CHS, I think a minimalist database would be just the thing.  Also, like I said, I would love to have it for home use... keeping track of cd's, books, whatever.  Yes, I could use a database and spend umpteen hours coding each database I want to keep.  Yes, I could use one of the freeware solutions that do everything and the kitchen sink (all this in rather clunky interfaces with childish icons). 

But, having said all that I don't want to take up your time... especially since you're working on CHS and all it's goodies.  Plus, I realize that maybe this is a specialty app... but, oh how long I've looked for something like this!  If you could do it, I'd be absolutely thrilled.

Kevin



436
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 05:07 PM »
Yeah... I've looked for some and havent found any.  Everyone seems to want full featured bloat (bloat relative to what I'm describing).  I don't know if I could use it at work due to government liscencing stuff, but I've often wanted something for keeping track of stuff around the house, keeping a list of pictures (yes I know there are programs for this!), etc.  But, I don't want to have to code to get it working.  It would be kind of cool to be able to write scripts for it, but that is NOT necessary. 

The only other feature I can think of other than what you just mentioned would be custom views, stored in the database file (so if you opened it up on another machine someone else could have the same views).  Each view could have a certain configuration of columns in it.  Forget forms, the way you have CHS allow you to group based on a certain column is incredible. 

Even scripting, if you could make it easy for AutoIt or AutoHotkey to grab info from the window (window control names, table handles, <I don't really know what I'm talking about here!>, etc) would allow scripting without a whole lot of work on your part. 

The only other thing, and I don't know a thing about databases, is that you should be able to edit a record like you edit a cell in Excel.  I personally think it's annoying to have to go to another textbox to fill in the data for a cell.  Maybe this isn't possible, I don't know how databases work.  I think you have it set up fine in CHS, since it's function is just to display pertinent data, not change it.  But for a program like this, it would be cool.

Give it a thought... if not, that's fine. 

Kevin

437
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 03:31 PM »
I looked at brilliant, still trying it out.  The only thing is, it does so much!  I love how CHS' database view is clean and simple.  Basically, it's like Excel for data storage.  That's all I really want.  A little customization would be nice... but not necessary.  Make it import/export to excel and everything would be great!  You dont think you could tweak CHS' database code, throw it into a simple gui (one pane, a few menus) in a short amount of time?  How many people use Excel for data storage?  This would be the same concept, just able to handle larger data sets.

Just an idea.  I'm probably over-simplifying greatly.  Ahhhh... but dreaming is such fun.

Kevin
438
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 02:05 PM »
Hmmmm... for us, Excel works fine, except that we now have over 40,000 wires in our trainer.  Excel gets unwieldy with that amount of data.  We were thinking about going to access, but there is too much programming involved. 

A quick thought... how easy would it be to make a basic database program?  Could this be a coding snack?  From looking at CHS, that level of functionality would be great, no fancy menus (although I guess you need to be able to edit the records somehow... double click to edit within the cell). 

- The ability to add and delete columns would be needed.
- Keep database info in ONE file
- Import/export to Excel would be a definite plus, almost a necessity

But, beyond that, CHS has about as much functionality as I'd want.  I've often wondered if there was a program like this out there.  Wow, I'm getting excited!

Kevin
439
Clipboard Help+Spell / Programming Question...
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 01:44 PM »
What database backend are you using for CHS?  Also, how easy is it to manipulate?  We are looking for a quick and dirty database for keeping our wirelist info at work.  The one used in CHS looks very interesting. 

Kevin
440
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 12:34 PM »
Heh heh, sorry, I didnt mean to sound like I was questioning the filter search... that is extremely useful.  I was questioning whether people would be clearing it if the clips were shown in the tree.  Since they arent right now, clearing the search is useful.  I'll try the space.

- Rearranging the panes is an awesome thing... just a little confusing.  I grabbed one of them but there is no real intuitive way to tell what all the options are.  I was trying to move them around, but the "zones" for different views are so small, it was hard to place them where I wanted.  The other thing was, I tried to line all panes side by side vertically but I couldnt seem to line them up on the right side of each other.  I had to start from the end and work my way left.  If you need more info let me know... I probably confused you there!

- Memory usage.  I noticed that on startup CHS uses ~2 meg of memory.  After playing around and then minimizing again, it used 12 meg.  What's the sudden increase?  When it goes back to the tray shouldnt it drop again?  If not, that's fine, I just get scared because it seems like it's not clearing something out of memory.

Will keep looking...

Kevin
441
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 09:48 AM »
Any way to reset the filter?  I typed a filter, it limited the results to 3 clips.  Is there any way to restore that to all clips again?  Perhaps I should also ask, is this request something that people would use in actual usage?  It may just be me misunderstanding the purpose of that view.

Kevin
442
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 09:18 AM »
Hey mouser, given the scope of this program, do you have any areas you are concerned about and want tested?  I'm going to continue testing general use, but in my general use I probably wont use certain aspects of the program for many days.  If you have certain areas you want checked, I may be able to force-use them.  Just let me know,

Kevin
443
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 08:15 AM »
Well, the windows spell thing brings up a spellcheck window and does actually spellcheck in Word.  I havent tried replacing the text, though if it's not working I wont now!  Another thing that is probably the result of alpha-ness but something to keep in mind; will the final version copy and paste from excel keeping tables? 

Other than that... still getting used to it!  Great job so far though,

Kevin
444
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: Early Early Alpha
« Last post by kfitting on August 09, 2005, 06:40 AM »
Wow, it will take awhile to fully test this!  Two things I've noticed however:

- The Windows Spell object crashes Keynote (gives a "handle" msgbox, then crashes before the spell check box comes up).  Havent tried enough different programs to find out if this happens elsewhere.

- The windows spell object creates a handle window (possibly for debugging purposes?? necessary??), but this window comes up in the background requiring the user to click on the taskbar to give it focus.

Will report as I find other things.  That "no install" version is much looked forward to!

Kevin
445
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: some surprises
« Last post by kfitting on August 06, 2005, 09:23 PM »
One more quick post then I'm off to bed.  I agree with what you said about being able to bring up a window.  The only thing I disagree with is allowing the user to modify the clip itself.  The way I see it, the reason you are renaming/catagorizing is so you can find it later, then edit it.  Perhaps the best compromise would be to put a button on the window for editing.  I just think the smaller the window that's brought up, the faster and more efficient things are going to be.  If the person really wants to edit on the spot, they can, but the default state is something which asks you for three or four pieces of info (already filled in automatically, you just change the ones you want) and then you're back to your previous action.

There, I'm done for the night!

Kevin
446
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: some surprises
« Last post by kfitting on August 06, 2005, 09:01 PM »
Well, I one thing I would like (and I have a feeling it may already be implemented!) is to be able to be surfing and copying articles (multi page/single page) like mad and then be able to go back at some point and format them and put them into my Keynote file for articles.  You mentioned virtual folders before and this comes into play because I may give each article its own heading and put them into different topics, but then using a virtual folder, I can go back through date by date and format the articles. 

That is the type of thing I think would be amazing for a clipboard tool: consideration of a "copying workflow."  How to make it easy to copy (inserting some custom info as desired), then allowing me to put those clips into whatever other program I need.  When I was in school, it may have been a word processor, but Keynote or other programs are just as likely. 

The other aspect I think that could be different is trying to rethink the whole quick clip mentality (the opposite extreme).  The ability to quickly copy multiple things and then paste them immediately in whatever order is desired.  As I said before, Clipomatic is the best I've come across yet, but it still is slightly cumbersome.  If you are just trying to go back and forth between pasting two clips there are too many button clicks required.  I don't really know how to resolve this, my first inclination being hotkeys, but then you wind up with a bunch of hotkeys and trouble remembering them!  Any suggestions??

Well, sorry, I've probably rambled quite a bit.  But, I'm pretty tired after playing 2 1/2 hours of ultimate frisbee.  Soon time for bed! 

Kevin
447
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: some surprises
« Last post by kfitting on August 06, 2005, 08:29 PM »
yes, this is going to be a full notes tool - it's too late to turn back now.

Nice, Nice!  With that decided I would say a name change and advertising info change is in order. 

My only concern with going full notes editor is that I dont need a notes program but I really like the extended clipboard functionality.  Will there be a way to use <Newly named Program> in this role without hogging resources?  On the flipside, some people may want to use it as a notes program and not as a clipboard tool... how will that be handled?  Will there be more of a stand alone program role?

I heartily agree that the direction you are going with it seriously blurs the lines between the two and I dont think it's a stretch... I just like Keynote!  ;)   But, since you are going that route, you may want to head to some notes manager forums and see what people are asking for.  Just keep in mind that you have opened yourself up to a "word processor" expectation!

One question I just thought of: with the switch to a more notes program paradigm are you still going to have the windows spell checking object?  If you are could you give a little more info on that, especially regarding what other programs you can check spelling in.

Kevin
448
Clipboard Help+Spell / Re: some surprises
« Last post by kfitting on August 06, 2005, 03:09 PM »
You creating a notes program? ;)  Heh, heh!

I have some suggestions I just thought about for the clipboard aspect. 

- Combining clips into one big clip.  Most useful for copying large multipage articles from the internet. 
- Being able to strip pics and such from the above mentioned clips.

Just thought about those today when I went to copy an article.  Cant wait for Monday!

Kevin
449
Yes I agree with Sentinel.  I downloaded this program after seeing the discount posted... and have been amazed at just how nice it is.  Especially considering that I have not changed one setting!  No more ads, none.  A delightful little line of text is on a webpage every now and then "munched."  I'm not going to buy immediately (budget manipulation ;) ) but, I will definitely be buying before the discount ends.

Kevin
450
Clipboard Help+Spell / Another tool....
« Last post by kfitting on August 05, 2005, 10:48 AM »
Found this while surfing today.  I dont really consider it a competitor, but it does some similar functions as CHS.  mouser, you may be able to put this in the helpfile as alternatives.  I havent tried it... it looks obtuse and seems to intrusive (waiting till monday ;) ).

http://www.kprobe.com/kprobe/fdc.htm

Kevin
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