Life without XP SP2 - is it possible?

[Carol Haynes]

I never understood how the placement method of PD worked in conjunction with the free space consolidation idea. Does it move the frequently modified files to the beginning of the drive and the rarely modified files to the end of the drive, leaving a large block of free space in the middle? Or does it bunch up all the files towards the beginning of the drive, but the order in which they are arranged is such that the most frequently modified are at the very beginning to provide the performance boost from faster access times?

No the opposite - all files are pushed to the start of the drive so that a large contiguous block is left at the end of the drive. Static files are placed first where they sit and don't need to be defragmented again in the future. Rarely modified files are placed next and at the end of the block (usually surrounding the MFT and pagefile if present which are placed in the middle of the partition) so that they can grow and it minimizes fragmentation. Finally folders are placed - and this seems to make sense to me as they change frequently and defragment very quickly when required.

Here is a display of a defragged partition on my system - as you can see it is rather full - and would probably cause DK headaches!

Re. DK "Set it and forget it" - yes I know they have that but I found it really frustrating as you could never predict when the system would start chuntering away. If you deal with large files (DVD images and video spring to mind) you can find your self filling up discs rapidly with fragmented files and then halfway through a time critical process DK suddenly decides it is time to defrag. The best automatic defrag to my mind is screen saver mode which is supported in both DK and PD.

Re. MFT expansion ... actually DKs method sounds good but there are two problems: firstly, if you expand the MFT you end up with a block of wasted space on your disc permanently; secondly, that isn't a problem if the disc has loads of free space but as the disc fills Windows automatically uses empty MFT space to write files - so you just end up fragmenting the MFT and the enlarged MFT you chose is lost.

[Darwin]

Re. DK "Set it and forget it" - yes I know they have that but I found it really frustrating as you could never predict when the system would start chuntering away.

The latest (2007) edition of DK doesn't do this - they've introduced "new technology" that monitors and maintains your system in real-time, all the time. AFAICT, there is no hit on resources and you're never even aware that its happening in the background.

[bugis]

No the opposite - all files are pushed to the start of the drive so that a large contiguous block is left at the end of the drive. Static files are placed first where they sit and don't need to be defragmented again in the future. Rarely modified files are placed next and at the end of the block (usually surrounding the MFT and pagefile if present which are placed in the middle of the partition) so that they can grow and it minimizes fragmentation. Finally folders are placed - and this seems to make sense to me as they change frequently and defragment very quickly when required.

-Carol Haynes (August 27, 2007, 04:07 AM)

That makes good sense from a defragmentation POV, but as far as file access is concerned, wont it be slower to read the most frequently modified files if they are further away from the start of the disk, especially when there are a large number of files?

Re. DK "Set it and forget it" - yes I know they have that but I found it really frustrating as you could never predict when the system would start chuntering away. If you deal with large files (DVD images and video spring to mind) you can find your self filling up discs rapidly with fragmented files and then halfway through a time critical process DK suddenly decides it is time to defrag. The best automatic defrag to my mind is screen saver mode which is supported in both DK and PD.

Yes, I think the older DK versions seemed to have had issues with starting defrag without warning, but the 2007 versions have this fixed properly. I play UT24k and COD2 online with DK autodefrag enabled and so far, no hiccups. Even if it does start chugging away when you are working, once some other app needs the cycles, DK retreats.  The autodefrag works nicely IMHO.

Re. MFT expansion ... actually DKs method sounds good but there are two problems: firstly, if you expand the MFT you end up with a block of wasted space on your disc permanently; secondly, that isn't a problem if the disc has loads of free space but as the disc fills Windows automatically uses empty MFT space to write files - so you just end up fragmenting the MFT and the enlarged MFT you chose is lost.

Apparently, the MFT is expanded (if you opt to) for preventing future fragmentation. But what you said is absolutely right, if you are short of space, then it is going to become fragmented.

I had bookmarked the following link when i was trying out the defraggers
http://www.driverhea...erfect-disk-8-a.html

If you have free time on your hands then it's a decently interesting flame war..er discussion  on how the two PD and DK have different approaches to the defrag process.

There is one more link on the free space consolidation aspect which was on the diskeeper blog. This is pretty old, so I think it refers to DK 10 and not DK2007.
http://www.diskeeper...es/2006/04/post.html

[dantheman]

Boy! You guys just lost me on this defrag stuff!
Doesn't take much to do that but...
if i can turn back a bit with regards to removing a network connection...

Yesterday my confrère made us change the configuration to the dlink.
The internet and network connection kept falling all the time.
The new password could not be remembered...
Playing with removing wired connections to the box itself, rebooting the computers (others had same issue).
Nothing worked.
Then i finally decided to try what was suggested here.
Hey? Why not remove the connection and start over?
It did the trick!

So now i'm wondering...
When i first do a fresh install of the pc i get onto the internet with pw but not to the network.
When i finally do a request to config a network connection through the proper id the house has with same pw,
it takes a few reboots (sometimes 5 or more) then it finally works.
Where am i getting to?
Well, still trying to figure out why the internet connection failed even if hooked up to network?
Was the driver upgrade i recently did the main reason for making it stick or was it simply the SP2 (which always did the trick)? If so, why is SP2 so necessary for internet connection?

[Carol Haynes]

Dan it sounds as though something is Royally screwed up somewhere !!

Let's see if I have this straight:

DLink Router to the network and internet
Wireless card in your PC to connect to the router

When you connect you can get to the internet but not the network ??? That is weird ???

How about other people using the network? Can you narrow it down to your own computer only or do others suffer from the same problem?

[dantheman]

...
How about other people using the network? Can you narrow it down to your own computer only or do others suffer from the same problem?

-Carol Haynes (August 28, 2007, 05:11 AM)

Well you see, when in regular runofthemillsituation everyone is on the Network. No problems.
I'm the one with the problems as often re-install and everytime i re-install i initially startup with my "own" network to get onto the web using the existing network groups' p.w.

Then, i eventually setup with the Network groups name and after a few reboots (5 or more) i can access the network printer and share files.

The tech savvy guy doesn't understand why this happens.

[Carol Haynes]

Sounds like when you install your system you aren't detecting the Network properly. If the network is encrypted (which it probably is) and the SSID (the network name) is hidden your computer won't see the network at all. During installation if you say you have a network Windows installer tends to believe you so my guess is that it sets up a totally different 'network' that doesn't really exist.

I'd suggest you don't allow windows to connect to the internet during windows installation so it leaves the network set up to do manually after the installation. Make sure you have the network SSID (the network name) and the encryption type and keys to get onto the network. Before you even attempt to connect to the network though make sure you update to the latest drivers (you can save them no for future use to a floppy or CDROM).

If windows automatically sets up a network connect delete it before you try and do anything else.

Basically you are playing in the wonderful uncharted waters of Windows Networking - which is a bit aof a black art since MS scatter the options to the four winds and provide no documentation (at least non that can be understood without doing a 3 year course on Windows networking).

[Darwin]

When i first do a fresh install of the pc i get onto the internet with pw but not to the network. When i finally do a request to config a network connection through the proper id the house has with same pw,
it takes a few reboots (sometimes 5 or more) then it finally works.
Where am i getting to?

This may be completely off in the wrong direction, but reading between the lines a bit, this sounds your computer may be automatically connecting to a different network and is having trouble finding your home network. Check out your wireless network configuration utility and make sure that the only network it is configured to automatically connect to is your home network. When this happens, your computer will be able to get onto the interrnet and receive e-mails, etc. but you WON"T be able to get onto your home network. This might happen there is an unsecured network (ie not MAC address/IP address/password protected as it sounds your is) with a strong signal in range during times when your own network is not found by your computer. The next time you're on the internet but unable to connect to your network, don't reboot - go into your wireless config util (D-Link now, by the sounds of it) and check the name of the network you ARE connected to. I'm guessing it won't be your home network. Have the utility rescan for available networks you might have to do this a number of times before your home network is found.

On a related, but peripheral note, I had no trouble for years networking a Win2k machine to two WinXP machines (one Home one Pro). When I moved houses last summer I could NOT get my network set up. Hardware hadn't changed, settings hadn't changed. Couldn't figure it out. Finally resorted to buying a copy of Network Magic and have not had a problem since. The basic licence allows you to network 3 computers and peripherals like printers on top of that. It's nice because it protects your shared folders and files when you're connected to other networks. Anyway, the only draw back is that it is another program that runs at startup... Note that it will take over management of your wireless card (and configuration/maintenance of its connections) if you want it to. Works well, but I have left this up to Windows XP's default app...

[dantheman]

After a well deserved annual weeks' holiday, i'm back!

During that time, someone gave me the extra funds to bring my notebook up to a total of 1.2Gigs of RAM! The stick was practically impossible to find but the computer store managed to pull it through for me! It's the most i can get for my machine.

Problem? Well, it just didn't do a single thing to improve my startup/shutdown time.

Now i've gone back to a fresh installation with a direct wire connecting me to the "company" network. So far i've been doing much better than in the past. Reboot a few times brought me quickly back to the network with printer setup and all. The connection to the internet has improved as well. Falling down a few times at the beginning but after over an hour, it's still hanging in there.

My hunch is the D-link box. I need a new and improved one.

[Darwin]

Very strange, Dan. This is one of those times when I really wish I could "be there" in person to take a look at your setup. I'm sure we could figure it out. C'est la vie. I'm glad you've got a working solution, even if it is a workaround.

[dantheman]

Ya. The process is rather tedious but i'm keeping this thread as it has many useful tips.

BTW, i also received a copy of OneNote 2007.
If anyone would like to make a switch for some other program... i'm game!
TreePad Business ed. beats it hands down!

[Darwin]

Dang! I'd like that copy of Onenote 2007. What are you looking for...  (Maybe you should PM me about this?)...