Author Topic: PopUp Wisdom Love (Read 29795 times)

tomos · « **on:** November 30, 2013, 11:46 AM »

hi mouser,
I see you're on a roll with updates lately so I'll ask for at least a minor update here

But first,
popup wisdom is a great little app - it has a lot of potential too imo. I see you started a FARR plugin at one stage for searching 'quote' contents via FARR.
If it were easier to add or modify text/quotes, or simply add comments to existing quotes, it could be used in a much broader manner e.g.

as a long term todo list
for ideas/topics that are rattling around the back of your mind - get them down here, and get occasionally prompted to think about them
add your thoughts to quotes
simply easily easily add new quotes/text

I had plans to write a mini-review and expand on those ideas above, but dont seem to get around to it

But in the short term, what makes it almost unusable for me, is that it momentarily steals focus when a popup shows.
When typing, it disrupts normally to the extent that one letter is missing - I'm a look at the keyboard typist so this is particularly challenging.
Also,
with YT videos at any rate, it breaks full-screen view. Not sure if that the same with other full screen apps.

Dunno does that all happen everyone, I only use it on my Win7 machine btw.

Another thing, but a minor one:
when I click on a popup, it disappears on the down-click. Default in Windows is that something works on the up-click, which allows one to have second thoughts

mouser · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2013, 12:00 PM »

Good timing.

Let's see here..
First, sounds like it would be good for popup wisdom to not auto show a quote if a full screen app is running.

As for making it easier to add quotes.. you could just edit the quote text files you know.. but the idea of having a built in text editor for a built-in quote file does seem like it might make it easier to quick edit stuff.

Not steal focus -- makes sense to me -- i will try to make it so.

Hide on mouse-up -- added to todo list.

ps.
the farr plugin to search quote works well afaik.

tomos · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2013, 05:05 PM »

glad the timing is good

the farr plugin to search quote works well afaik.
-mouser (November 30, 2013, 12:00 PM)

thanks, will try it.

Re editing - I was thinking of something very easy, unfortunately I dont have it (Popup wisdom) installed here, so cannot check. Will try and have a look at it tomorrow.

With the quotes for example - I currently have two 'books' installed - a philosopher one, and the Eno one.
Sometimes I would simply like to delete a quote.
Sometimes I would like to add commentary to it.
Sometimes it makes me think of something else I'd like to write and add to a book of, say, "Quotes by me".

I know there's already a bunch of buttons there, and I dont know what could be possible from a coding perspective. But I think it would look better either with less, or without any buttons, and if we could access the current options, and any new ones (del/comment/new) say via a right-click or via a popup menu.
(I'm just firing off ideas here now)

ewemoa · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2013, 08:17 PM »

Not steal focus -- makes sense to me -- i will try to make it so.
-mouser (November 30, 2013, 12:00 PM)

Hurray

mouser · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2013, 09:06 AM »

Can you guys try this new beta to see if i've fixed the foreground issue:
https://www.donation...PopUpWisdomSetup.exe

IMPORTANT: You need to go into options and UNCHECK the box "Popup get Active Focus".

ps. you can also get it in portable version now:
https://www.donation...UpWisdomPortable.zip

mouser · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2013, 04:31 PM »

Latest beta features:

v1.08.01 - December 1, 2013

[Feature] Portable zip now uses ConfigDir_Default.ini which is overridden by the presence of a ConfigDir.ini file, so users unpacking the contents won't overwrite any custom ConfigDir.ini they may have.
[Feature] Now using a dual package (installer and portable zip), with portable zip preconfigured for portable use.
[Feature] Installer and executable are now signed.
[Feature] Option to check for updates at startup.
[Change] Quote box now hides on mouse-up not mouse-down.
[Feature] Popup quotes will not auto display (on timer) if there is a screensaver or other full screen application (game) running.
[Feature] PopUp Wisdom will now auto-detect when a quote file has changed and automatically reload the new changes.
[Feature] New edit book menu item in popup window.
[Feature] Better display of info about each quote book in options (file size, etc.).
[Feature] Added icons in menus.

I don't want to release it though until i know i've fixed the foreground issue, which i'm not sure i have (works on my xp but i dont know about win7).

Let me know how you like the improvements.

tomos · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2013, 05:06 PM »

Will test tomorrow, thanks!

ewemoa · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2013, 07:21 PM »

Tried under Windows XP Pro (as guest OS of Virtualbox).

Focus seemed to still be stolen even with unchecking "Popup gets Active Focus":

PopUp Wisdom Love

ewemoa · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2013, 07:30 PM »

Testing whether focus gets stolen seems to yield different results.

Right after clicking the "OK" button of the Options dialog (with no quote dialog showing), using the hotkey to bring up a new quote does not lead to focus being stolen. However, a subsequent hotkey invocation leads to focus being stolen here.

Similar behavior was observed for the case of waiting for quotes to appear -- in contrast to summoning one by hotkey.

mouser · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2013, 07:44 PM »

However, a subsequent hotkey invocation leads to focus being stolen here.

does this problem only occur when triggering via hotkey (as opposed to timer?)

I'm having a hard time reproducing this bug, even when using hotkey. I don't get focus stealing in the new version no matter if it's triggered via hotkey or timer -- neither on xp or win7.

ewemoa · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2013, 08:06 PM »

However, a subsequent hotkey invocation leads to focus being stolen here.

does this problem only occur when triggering via hotkey (as opposed to timer?)
-mouser (December 01, 2013, 07:44 PM)

It happens with both (I added a comment to the post above too).

The key here to observing focus not being stolen seems to be to get the Options dialog up first (without any quote showing), clicking on the "OK" button and then either waiting for a quote to appear or using the hotkey. After one quote dialog appears, subsequent appearances of quote dialogs appear to steal focus consistently (until the options dialog box is brought up with a quote dialog showing and then the "OK" button being clicked.)

FWIW, the testing is being done on a system where PopupWisdom had never been installed before.

mouser · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2013, 08:17 PM »

If you would indulge me, I'd love to get a simple reproducible use case, as simple as possible.

If we uncheck that option to set focus, then exit program.
Then restart program, with it appearing in tray.

Then open up notepad, and give it focus.

Now show a popup quote. Does popup wisdom steal focus?
If yes, then to confirm, we mean that the foreground focus leaves notepad, and if we type the letters don't appear in notepad.

You can see what i'm trying to get at here -- the simplest reproducible steps to demonstrate the problem -- because i'm not able to reproduce it given what i've read so far and i can't tell if we are just doing different things or meaning different things, etc.

ewemoa · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2013, 08:37 PM »

If we uncheck that option to set focus, then exit program.
Then restart program, with it appearing in tray.

Then open up notepad, and give it focus.

Now show a popup quote. Does popup wisdom steal focus?
-mouser (December 01, 2013, 08:17 PM)

No (IMHO this is similar to what I described before), and then if I click the OK button to dismiss the quote, Notepad ends up with focus (I see a flickering of it). Now if I invoke the hotkey to show a quote, focus is stolen by the quote dialog.

FWIW, I did follow your steps

Reproduced similar results using Windows 7 Pro (as guest OS of VirtualBox).

mouser · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2013, 02:12 AM »

Ok, i managed to reproduce this on Windows 7 (not on xp). Insidious.
Doesn't happen unless you first click on the Ok button.
Thank you bill gates.

Now i have to try to figure out how on earth this combination of events could lead to this behavior.

Thank you for your patience.

mouser · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2013, 03:10 AM »

Ok, would you mind trying the newest beta i just uploaded?

I think it now makes sense what's happening.

My code ensures that the quote window does not "actively" steal focus from the window that had it at the time of triggering a quote.

But what happens when you click on a button on the quote form, is that you yourself bring the quote window to the foreground, which has no ill effect, BUT, when that currently-foregrounded window is hidden, what happens is that Windows itself (at least on win7), says "ok, our previously foregrounded window just disappeared, i will remember to bring it back to foreground the next time it appears."

So essentially, it's windows trying to be smart by, on its own, resetting the focus to the quote window in this scenario (where it was foregrounded right before it was last hidden).

There may be a better workaround, but what i've done in the latest version to try to fix this is, right before hiding the quote window, i send the foreground focus off it. That way when it shows itself the next time, windows doesn't try to fix it.

Let me know if it works.

mouser · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2013, 03:57 AM »

If it were easier to add or modify text/quotes, or simply add comments to existing quotes, it could be used in a much broader manner e.g.

you can now edit the quotefile containing the currently shown quote from the menu, but i think the most important new change that should help do what you want is that PopUpWisdom will now automatically detect whenever a quote file has been modified and reload it automatically. this means that you can edit a custom quote book file whenever you want and the new quotes will be shown.

ewemoa · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2013, 05:03 AM »

Let me know if it works.
-mouser (December 02, 2013, 03:10 AM)

Both VirtualBox guest OS tests, but working better (no stolen focus detected so far) for both Windows XP Pro and Windows 7 Pro

mouser · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2013, 05:27 AM »

Ok, sounds like i can go official with this then..

tomos · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:53 AM »

Ok, sounds like i can go official with this then..
-mouser (December 02, 2013, 05:27 AM)

just tried unsuccessfully to reproduce problems. (I did try clicking [OK].) Seems to work fine on win 7 - or works find so far

No loss of letters when typing.
Doesnt kick YT videos out of full screen either (or didnt when I just tried).

EDIT//
and the quote only disappears on the up-click, more thumbs-up ;-)

mouser · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2013, 10:00 AM »

Great.

I'd love one more test report that the new candidate version works reasonably. I've added a few more features:

v1.08.01 - December 2, 2013

[Feature] Portable zip now uses ConfigDir_Default.ini which is overridden by the presence of a ConfigDir.ini file, so users unpacking the contents won't overwrite any custom ConfigDir.ini they may have.
[Feature] Now using a dual package (installer and portable zip), with portable zip preconfigured for portable use.
[Feature] Installer and executable are now signed.
[Feature] Option to check for updates at startup.
[Change] Quote box now hides on mouse-up not mouse-down.
[Feature] Popup quotes will not auto display (on timer) if there is a screensaver or other full screen application (game) running.
[Feature] PopUp Wisdom will now auto-detect when a quote file has changed and automatically reload the new changes.
[Feature] New edit book menu item in popup window.
[Feature] Better display of info about each quote book in options (file size, etc.).
[Feature] Added icons in menus.
[Feature] PopUp Wisdom will now create the default UserQuotes.txt file in the proper user configuration directory (instead of installation directory) on WinVista/7/8.
[Feature] PopUp Wisdom will now scan for books in BOTH the installed "Books" directory and a create user configuration "Books" on machines where configuration directory is different from installation directory (WinVista/7/8).
[Feature] Start-after-installation option added for WinVista/7/8.
[Improvement] Miscellaneous improvements on options dialog.
[Improvement] Better installed program icon.
[Improvement] Avoids stealing focus (see options).
[Improvement] Now much easier to select and preview skin selection, or disable it.
[Feature] You can now set a custom sound file.
[Change] The use of a skinned appearance is now disabled by default.

ewemoa · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2013, 05:37 PM »

[Feature] PopUp Wisdom will now create the default UserQuotes.txt file in the proper user configuration directory (instead of installation directory) on WinVista/7/8.
-mouser (December 02, 2013, 10:00 AM)

Does this happen for the portable version too? I failed to determine whether it does or not (my preference being that it doesn't happen.)

The newest version seemed to read my old settings (at least the hotkey settings) even though I thought I didn't do an overwriting installation. May be I messed up?

As far as focus-stealing is concerned, haven't seen it happen for both VirtualBox guest OS installations of XP Pro and 7 Pro.

mouser · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2013, 07:07 PM »

Does this happen for the portable version too? I failed to determine whether it does or not (my preference being that it doesn't happen.)

Only if the UserQuotes.txt file does not yet exist. It would happen in the Books directory on the portable disk.

I'm not sure if you are saying there are problems or not.

ewemoa · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2013, 10:40 PM »

To clarify, I've only tested portable versions.

What I thought I saw was (under Windows 7 Pro), a new installation of PopUp Wisdom (non-overwriting) already being configured with custom hotkeys.

I'll test again.

ewemoa · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2013, 10:43 PM »

I tried again (Windows 7 Pro), i.e. non-overwriting installation of portable version -- when I look at the options dialog I see that my custom hotkeys are already set. I didn't expect this for a portable set up. Is that the intended behavior?

ewemoa · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2013, 10:45 PM »

Ah I think I see what's going on -- somehow I was expecting the portable version to be configured to look for settings and friends in the directory containing the exe. It doesn't by default I guess.

I guess I misunderstood. Sorry about that.