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8576

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 03:06 PM »

As I was saying at the beginning, having an opt-out policy is not hiding it.  If it is truly hidden, then that's a different story.  But from the times I've seen OC, it's been pretty obvious.  In the case that it's hidden, then it falls into the category of malicious, IMO.

To re-state, so it's clear.  If it's an opt-out dialog during the installer (and even in subsequent updates) then it's not hidden.

-wraith808 (February 26, 2011, 01:54 PM)

When you download and run an OC powered installer, there are 3 things you could potentially install on your computer:

1. The application you intended to install (this is not hidden)
2. The recommended software (opt-in or opt-out, this is not hidden either)
3. OpenCandy itself, which you have to be a power user that knows the command line flags and knows OC is in the installer, before running it, in order to avoid being assigned a unique tracking ID and the OC junk being placed on your hard drive and in your registry. There is NO check box to opt out! Users are not well informed about this tracking garbage, despite OC "requiring" developers to inform users. They only have to mention OC somewhere on their own site. They do not mention it on download sites. So, you could download an app from Softpedia and not be informed there is OC in it, end up running it, and even when you opt out of the recommended additional software, you still get included in OC's tracking and profiling, whether you want to or not.

-app103 (February 26, 2011, 02:12 PM)

Well, the way that you put it, I have no problem with virus scanners flagging it as malicious.  Just like the games that come with various DRM that install drivers and such without telling you.  If you install anything that is not directly related to what I'm trying to install without informing me, you're wrong.

The thing about your point is that it was in response to mine.  So it either goes with/against my point... or shouldn't have been a response?  If that had been what the original conversation was about, I'd have had nothing to say, truthfully.  What you say is blatantly wrong... and I don't agree with at all.

-wraith808 (February 26, 2011, 02:07 PM)

You completely lost me. (Not hard to do the way my brain's been working lately.) Could you possibly restate that?   

-40hz (February 26, 2011, 02:31 PM)

I was originally talking about OC apps installing with a checkbox/radio box that tells you what else is being installed, and you get to opt out.

Your point was about apps that install without letting you know anything.

Two different topics, IMO.

8577

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 02:07 PM »

Apparently enough people have complained that Microsoft Security Essentials is flagging OC as well.
 (see attachment in previous post)

-40hz (February 26, 2011, 01:56 PM)

Umm... that's where this started.

@Wraith808 - understand what you're saying. But again - to my point - I neither told anything to install OC, nor was I asked not to install it. And regardless of who is tacking OC onto whatever, it is obviously something OC is aware of and marketing.

So in the end, the buck has to stop right at OC's doorstep.

All the talking in circles, justifications, "yeah buts", similar things other people are allegedly doing, and "looking at things in perspective" isn't going to change that.

 It's their product. It's their responsibility. smiley

-40hz (February 26, 2011, 01:56 PM)

The thing about your point is that it was in response to mine.  So it either goes with/against my point... or shouldn't have been a response?  If that had been what the original conversation was about, I'd have had nothing to say, truthfully.  What you say is blatantly wrong... and I don't agree with at all.

8578

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 01:54 PM »

you are responsible for your own safety in the end.  It's not hidden, it's clearly there.

-wraith808 (February 26, 2011, 01:15 PM)

Agree on your first point. But not on your second.

I am very careful to read everything, not opt-in to anything, and always opt-out when asked, whenever I do an install.

However, I've had to remove OpenCandy from my software evaluation and test machine twice this month.

This is the first time I've ever had to do that. For OpenCandy - or anything else.

I did not see anything that asked me (since it's now opt-out) if I wanted to not install OC.

I'm the only person who loads anything on this machine.

So...it think it's safe to say something has been changed.

-40hz (February 26, 2011, 01:26 PM)

As I was saying at the beginning, having an opt-out policy is not hiding it.  If it is truly hidden, then that's a different story.  But from the times I've seen OC, it's been pretty obvious.  In the case that it's hidden, then it falls into the category of malicious, IMO.

To re-state, so it's clear.  If it's an opt-out dialog during the installer (and even in subsequent updates) then it's not hidden. 

I think that during a lot of these discussions, things get blurred as posters add things into the definition by fiat after the fact.  The initial discussion was towards a non-hidden opt out process, similar to google, or bing, or itunes, where you might click past and never see it if you are not paying attention.  The other is a different subject than what I was commenting on.

8579

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 01:23 PM »

Are you going to tell that to the average home user? Most expect that when you install something, that you are only installing software released by that company. End-user education has not reached the point that a class is being given in school. It needs to be so, but it is not. So, how can you blame a user who really does not know any better? That's like saying that a driver is responsible when they go to a dealer to get an oil change and they another part that is supposedly "better" without telling you and this new part causes your engine to catch fire. The driver did not know that the part was installed even thou it was listed on the invoice. They did not ask for it, and chances are they did not want it.

-Josh (February 26, 2011, 01:19 PM)

1. Classes are being given in school, and have been for quite a while, but that's neither here nor there.
2. The analogy is fallacious, because in your example, the user isn't doing the installation.  In this case, the user is doing the installation, is clicking *next* each time, and *does* have the chance to read.  A better example is contracts.  Do people read before signing?  No- because they want to get to the end, and get their shiny new car, credit card, etc.  But does this make them any less liable?  No.  You don't *have* to be taught anything in order to avoid this other than to read.  So read!  If it's not clearly stated, then I'll agree.  But as long as it's clearly stated, you should read.

Note: I am not condoning the practice.  I'm just saying that it's not hidden.  And clearly it's not, IMO.

8580

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 01:15 PM »

wraith, how is this not the same as installing hidden software? Many users click-thru installers. They will not pay attention and as such, this will result in an, often-times, unwanted application being installed. This is, to me, the same as hiding the installation since most users won't pay it two regards.

-Josh (February 26, 2011, 12:53 PM)

If you click thru installers, then you deserve what you get, truthfully.  I don't condone the practice, but you are responsible for your own safety in the end.  It's not hidden, it's clearly there.

8581

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 12:51 PM »

They're still no worse that a Google or Bing Toolbar

-Eóin (February 26, 2011, 10:53 AM)

Or iTunes

8582

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 10:49 AM »

ok here is my bet, I am putting my 100$ if anyone wants to bet on it.
I am %100$ sure that in 2 years OC will become an application that will try to install hidden stuff and spy on your download-installation activity. If anyone wants to bet I am accepting bets. Since we do not want to gamble lets keep the amount not more than 100$.

-kartal (May 17, 2009, 01:05 AM)

* scancode puts $25 against Kartal

-scancode (September 30, 2009, 05:03 PM)

Looks like scannie owes kartal 25 bucks.

-Josh (February 26, 2011, 10:04 AM)

That's not an accurate assessment.  They do not try to install hidden stuff and spy on your download-installation activity.  What they do is not provide an opt-in model, which is quite disappointing.  But they are middle of the road rather than malignant in terms of installing hidden stuff.

8583

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 09:58 AM »

A shame.  He seemed committed to it not being adware at the time.  But I guess everyone was right to be cynical about the application.

8584

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Bookmark Docs - MiniReview

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 09:55 AM »

I don't know... I suppose you could always contact them on the site.

8585

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Psychonauts 24-Hour Sale at GOG.com (75% off)

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 08:48 AM »

When 24 hour sales are listed, might be good to put the date in the subject.

8586

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 26, 2011, 08:46 AM »

An old thread, I know, but this is relevant to the topic and I was very surprised that it's come to this...

8587

General Software Discussion / Re: Is DonationCoder too exposed of a brand?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 25, 2011, 09:05 AM »

I think lotusrootstarch may be on to something; regarding the forum. I'd never thought about it before but it does seem to be that we are all now long time members with only a few new members each year - seems like less than half-a-dozen new members a year (I've no facts to support this claim, it's just what it feels like).

Is this natural forum behaviour; just a few recruits a year? If so, then everything is "normal". If not, then it looks like DC has become a bit of a private members club. (Although, seeing the number of non registered members lurking about at any one time, it seems clear there are plenty of people that find the forum useful.)

-nudone (February 25, 2011, 05:55 AM)

It seems to be from my experience.  It's a forum that supports developers, not a brand in terms of a product, IMO.  Mouser works on features for the forum as needed, but what do you need other than that?  What features are missing to make this a good forum?

8588

General Software Discussion / Re: Serial Key Storage for Windows

« Last post by wraith808 on February 25, 2011, 08:58 AM »

1Password has an area for that, and the developers are super nice.  They just had a BDJ special, and I wasn't able to get it on the day, but they had already anticipated it and left the deal going.

(In fact, I just checked, and as of 9:56AM 2011-02-25 it's still available - https://agilewebsolu...m/store?d=bitsdujour)

They have a Mac/Windows/iPad/iPhone/Android versions, and they all sync.

8589

General Software Discussion / Re: What's your favorite eBay/auction helping software?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 24, 2011, 08:21 PM »

I've actually been using gixen.com exclusively now.

8590

Living Room / Show us your desktop

« Last post by wraith808 on February 23, 2011, 11:37 PM »

We have the show us the view outside of your window (I don't have one in my office, so that's what I haven't posted to that thread), and were talking about desktops, so I figured I'd start this thread.  To be clear, we're talking about your OS desktop, not your hardware.

I'll start it off.  I like a pretty clean desktop, so I don't like icons showing.  My wallpaper changes constantly (I use wallpaper cycler), so the actual image is different at any given time.  But the big thing I use is WinStep Extreme with the Windows 7 theme (it's actually running Vista)... NeXTStart, NeXuS, and Workshelf, along with the module for the time.


Full Desktop


NextStart Start Menu


NeXuS


WorkShelf

Anyone else game?

8591

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 23, 2011, 01:20 PM »

How come people aren't more excited about my new card game? 

-mouser (February 23, 2011, 11:19 AM)

Speaking only for myself, possibly because I have something like ten really cool games I've bought, over the last year or so, that are still sitting on the shelf (most in their original shrink-wrap) because I haven't found the time to get into them. And that's to say nothing of my own personal game dev projects, all of which are now languishing in various stages of abandonment and neglect. 

However, I'm very excited about that card creation library you mentioned. Put me on the waiting list to buy a license when it comes out. 

-40hz (February 23, 2011, 12:27 PM)

Again, 40hz puts my thoughts into print LOL

8592

Coding Snacks / Re: IDEA: Plain text checklist manager

« Last post by wraith808 on February 23, 2011, 01:18 PM »

ToDoPaper is actually the one I was thinking about- I'm glad he stuck to the simple format.  Using the ToDoTxt.com format seems like it would be the path of least resistance, though the suggested format wasn't really inspired by it at all- more by GTD than anything else as I hadn't heard of todotxt.com

8593

Coding Snacks / Re: IDEA: Plain text checklist manager

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 11:16 PM »

^ I can't offhand see a way to do that without making it overly complicated- something that I was trying to avoid at all costs.  One reason for avoiding it is that I want the plain text version to be readily human readable.  The other reason is that I want it to be dead simple to use.

Do you have any idea- considering also that I'd prefer to make project and contexts one word descriptors and tasks multi-word descriptions- to do that in that syntax that you wouldn't find overly complicated if you looked at the plain text version of the notes?

8594

Coding Snacks / Re: IDEA: Plain text checklist manager

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 09:51 PM »

Tudumo costs $30.

-superboyac (February 22, 2011, 04:51 PM)

Good enough.  Wraith mentioned he might want to write this one; if he doesn't, I can.

-skwire (February 22, 2011, 05:05 PM)

I do want to... but there's no reason we can't have more than one approach.  How about if we settle on the format, and if you want to tackle it also, we'll have two separate ones that read the same file format?

Just as a start, the format I have in mind is something pretty simple.  Each line is one item of the format

-Task @Context +Project

where "Task" is the description of the task, "@Context" are the contexts of the task, "+Project" is the project the task should be assigned to, and "-" denotes that the task is completed.  There can be more than one "@Context", but only one "+Project" per line, with the "-" having to be at the beginning of the line, and the "@Context" and "+Project" having to be at the end.  The only problem that I can see from the format is the inability to have the @/+ sign next to a word, but I don't think that should be too limiting...

Thoughts?

8595

General Software Discussion / Re: Software to share To-Do lists?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 04:35 PM »

@SB

FYI  - if it's based on TaskPaper, you can find that over in the App Store.

Don't you use an iPad?

-40hz (February 22, 2011, 04:32 PM)

One caveat to that is that the only desktop app is for Mac...

8596

General Software Discussion / Re: Software to share To-Do lists?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 04:35 PM »

Maybe I can make one that does what it used to do...

-wraith808 (February 22, 2011, 02:04 PM)

Ah!  You are right.  That's exactly what I remember.  What a shame.  I was all set to use it.  Maybe someone here would be interested in reviving the idea with a coding snack?

-superboyac (February 22, 2011, 03:37 PM)

I'll see if I can get to it- maybe release it for the fundraiser... !

Just as a start, the format I have in mind is something pretty simple.  Each line is one item of the format

-Task @Context +Project

where "Task" is the description of the task, "@Context" are the contexts of the task, "+Project" is the project the task should be assigned to, and "-" denotes that the task is completed.  There can be more than one "@Context", but only one "+Project" per line, with the "-" having to be at the beginning of the line, and the "@Context" and "+Project" having to be at the end.  The only problem that I can see from the format is the inability to have the @/+ sign next to a word, but I don't think that should be too limiting...

Thoughts?

8597

General Software Discussion / Re: Software to share To-Do lists?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 03:29 PM »

I think that was tudumo.  It used to be that way.

8598

General Software Discussion / Re: Software to share To-Do lists?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 02:04 PM »

I was going to recommend TuDuMo.  It was originally supposed to be a pc version of TaskPaper, a plain text to-do app for the mac.  It had many advantages: Plain text files.  Very simple, and keyboard shortcuts.  Not free, but very reasonable for the power.

But, now it uses XML files.  And they're still decipherable, but a long way from the old format.  In the old format, each todo was a line in the file.  Tags were @tags at the end of the line.  When a task was done, it was flagged with a - before the line.  The app interpreted all of this into its interface, but it was beautiful.  But now it's an example of what happens when someone decides to do too much with their original idea.

It's still a cool app, but I weep for what it was before.

Maybe I can make one that does what it used to do...

8599

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 01:48 PM »

What do people *think* the pledging concept is? 

-wraith808 (February 22, 2011, 09:58 AM)

I see it as an incentive.

-40hz (February 22, 2011, 12:59 PM)

That's not what *I* see it as, which is maybe why we have a disconnect.

If you walk for the united way, and get pledges towards your miles walked or completing a walk, who is getting anything from that?  What's the incentive? 

Spoiler

No one but the charity and none are the answers for the smart alecs out there.

So, that's the type of pledging that I'm talking about.  Not incentives nor disincentives.  Just a little effort on the DoCo members to maybe explain a bit about what they're doing and why, and does the person that they're pitching to want to sponsor them in completing this task.

That was my thought behind the idea.

8600

Official Announcements / Re: March 2011 DonationCoder.com Fundraiser Celebration -- Pledges?

« Last post by wraith808 on February 22, 2011, 09:58 AM »

What do people *think* the pledging concept is?  I didn't look at it as a rules based thing, nor an either/or type of situation.  What I thought when you pledged something is similar to pledging for the many walks or such... you pledge to do something, and get people behind you.  Not just post it, but actually get people behind you... whether from DoCo, or people you know from other sites.  If others from DoCo want to contribute to your pledge, that's fine... but I thought that the major impetus would be the fulfiller of the pledge- something like KickStarter.  No rules- it's just to release something, and get people behind your release with money that will be given to DoCo.  That was my  anyway.