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726
Living Room / Re: What do you think about "What I like to do" medallions
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 04:05 PM »
I would agree and it is something I had also considered; in that, my purpose was not to burden any one person.  Leveraging anything already there is certainly the best path.
727
Living Room / Re: What do you think about "What I like to do" medallions
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 03:58 PM »
  • An hourglass - I like to (?) procrastinate

Hah!  I never considered "procrastinating" a skill!  ;D
728
Living Room / Re: What do you think about "What I like to do" medallions
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 03:41 PM »
Yes, this is kind of what I was thinking.
729
Living Room / What do you think about "What I like to do" medallions
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 03:23 PM »
I was wondering about the feasibility to implement some kind of medallions in the I.D. area under our UID and avatar.  I am not perfectly clear on the particulars, but I thought I would throw it out and see what happened.
730
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 02:59 PM »
First off,  wraith808, Thank you for the perspective on Renegade's joke link.  Yous stated it better than I did.

Personally from my perspective there is so little even remotely objectionable content on this forum that the NSFW filtering stuff seems like overkill.  But since it kind of comes almost free with the tag system it may be worth considering doing.

This was Mouser's quote and herein lies the crux of the whole thing.  My opinion is there is far too much.  Patience, please give me a moment...

This is Mouser's and a while lot of other peoples "house."  As a result it has a "tone" and a "personality,"  The fact is if Mouser (hypothetically) chose for whatever reason, to make this say, a "Save the 'Fill_in_the_blank'!" site and all involvement must center around promoting awareness, motivating people, lobbying congress, etc.  Further let's say his passion was so intense that he did choose to censor (yes, I used the word) all communication and discussions.  All other discussions than how to address the 'Fill_in_the_blank' issue must be taken elsewhere as time is short and we must concentrate!  Well, if Mouser (hypothetically) did this, what choice would the rest of us have? None, except the same choice you would have as a guest in their home... participate along the established norms or leave.  Those are the only options if harmony is to be expected and the guest has no right to change the arrangement of furniture, etc.  So, what am I saying?  This is Mouser's house and he has chosen a certain level of what is permissible and what is not.  Further, there has been numerous individuals that have found comfortable, spacious rooms in this house and, quite understandably, are a little put out when someone comes along and upsets the balance.  I can see that I have done that and I apologize, but in my defense my motives were good whether anyone chooses to believe it or not. 

I want to say one thing in regard to the jibes at my age and or behavioral expectations.  On Jan. 31, 1995 I saw my born-dead daughter come back to life.  This is not politics.  It is not religion. It is fact!  My friends, after this kind of event happens in your life.  Everything else you ever do, your attitudes, and your views on faith, the world and politics are forever changed.  So as not to try and cram anything down anyone's throat, since that has never been my interest anyway, I will only make available the details to anyone who requests them via PM.  Besides, out of 100,000+ people I can't be the only one who feels this way.  I can't be THAT unique?  There may be some timid souls out there that just didn't have the stomach for this kind of conflict.  They can PM (Private Message) me too and share their views and no need to fear I am not going to try to take over the site with an army of zealots (rofl).  Hope this will now give you a little clearer window into who CodeTRUCKER really is that is in your midst.

The time has come to put this fiasco to rest.  I've been the whipping boy enough and we have had our fun and our say.  This isn't about me anyway it is about the community we hold dear and are obviously willing to face no little conflict to defend it, regardless of which side of the spectrum we're on.  Let's move on and see what Andersen comes up with.  Perhaps he could even use Ralf and myself as Beta advisors.  Now that would be a spectrum, eh? :D  As far as leaving?  I've already stated I've come to love you guys and gals and there really is something special here.  I'm not going anywhere.
731
Living Room / Re: Happy Birthday to App103
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 04, 2008, 12:05 AM »
Happy B-Day, April. 

Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday to you.
Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday to you.
On this special day we just wanted to say in a very special way...
Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday, Happy Birthday to you.

This is a song we wrote for a dear friend, but it is very appropriate here.  Don't try to sing it to anything as the melody is also original.  Maybe I can cook up a MIDI file a little later.

Calvin
732
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 11:50 PM »
...I think that if app103's HTML tag was tied to tranglos's (click to view) button, with a strong public recommendation that anything not qualifying as "Polite Conversation" be labeled as such ... That the folks here could easily Self Police their way to a reasonable resolution.

Mods could also be allowed to insert the tag for any borderline stuff without having to resort to any feather ruffleing draconian post deletion.

This is what I was trying (but failing) to say above, and you've done it much more succinctly as well  :Thmbsup:
Somehow I missed the original post, but I'll second this motion.
733
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 11:43 PM »
Now c'mon... isn't this doing the same thing you just criticized me for above?

I never said you were wrong in the views you had on profanity and such.

Oops!, no, I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to framing your comment as an me -vs- everyone else grouping right after you had adressed me for doing the same thing.  Maybe I read it wrong? 
734
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 11:33 PM »
Herein lies the problem, what I feel as pain you find humorous.  This will never be resolved.  What can be resolved is if people become more important than rights, but it appears my attempts at planting are not finding fertile soil.

CodeTRUCKER, you voiced a concern and technical solutions have been proposed. True, technology will never be fully effective, or at least not effective and efficient at the same time, as you yourself realized when it became too hard to keep maintaining your Proxomitron filters. But this is what can be done.

What also can be done is request that posters refrain from racy topics, which is happening all the time at DC - not the requesting, mind you, but the refraining! As others have noted, DC is one of the most "clean", most corteous discussion forums of its size and popularity.

What else would you like to happen, please?

I never advocate for the minority to submit to the wishes of the majority (but this itself is a highly political topic for an entirely different forum!) However, and please set me right if I misunderstand your intentions, you seem to be asking everyone to apply the lowest common denominator when deciding about what might possibly be offensive. Because it's not only about swearwords, is it? It's also about content that may well be relevant to the site. The YouPorn post might well have been an article in an IT magazine, after all. It's a "people meet technology" issue - part computing, part sociology. It seems to me you are asking adults to refrain from discussing certain relevant topics. So what would you like to be done?

To be honest with you, I don't have a clue.  I have submitted my case and have received the response.  As far as I can tell its over.  Please don't confuse capitulation with defeat.  I don't feel defeated.  Time for the next step.
735
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 11:22 PM »
Um... Wow!
CodeTRUCKER while the Morality Police dialog was a truly artful dodge ... it still leaves you firmly planted on the moral high-ground.

I'm not sure what you mean by an "artful dodge?"  I am dodging nothing.  As far as your estimation that I am on the "high ground,"  that has always been my purpose.  I have no interest in mediocrity and I do all I can to encourage as many as I can up the slope.  If you were suggesting I think I am better than anyone else, then you are wrong, but I will concede that my goals are lofty and virtuous.
736
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 11:14 PM »
Codetrucker,
just to reiterate, I do appreciate people having different sensibilities but I honestly don't get how a grown man can be so sensitive. It's three days past the new year and here's what I've seen in the news:
A man being assaulted (and subsequently beaten to death)
A school kid who hung himself coz he wanted to "prove his teacher wrong"
Two women nearly raped in public coz they ventured to the wrong place at the wrong time

There's so much craziness going around and here you are, a grown man appealing for kindness coz somebody made a post linking to a porn site and getting deeply offended coz another guy misdirected you with a hyperlink! How does someone like you survive in the real world? DC is one of the cleanest places I know... I've seen more nastiness in this thread than I've seen on the entire board in the past few months. I think the message is loud and clear and the minority has to learn to respect the majority. You can put up a poll if you have any doubts about which is which but I suspect you already know the answer.

As for the term "moral policing", it's a bit of a catch phrase in the city where I live, the media uses it all the time with reference to a narrow-minded right-wing party, a bunch of ass-clowns who try and do innovative things to get some attention, like vandalize movie theatres if they're playing something that "offends their sentiments" & try and ban Valentine's Day coz it brings about "unhealthy feelings" (laugh it up!) among youngsters.
 

In regard to the Renegade link, you're the third one ( if I can count) that sees nothing wrong with it.  This is outside of my sphere.  It is impossible for me to look at it that way.  As you have stated, the masses have spoken.  I am respectful of this.

In reference to the news items, I am in complete concert with you.  They are horrible. The difference is that is not what is here at DC.  It is precisely the fact that there is something of an oasis here.  The only problem is I get Montezuma's Revenge with ever greater frequency.  This is not to say that the water is bad, but my system is not used to it and after a year drinking in (solid lurking) that water my system cannot assimilate it.  It is not bad.  It is incompatible to my system.  (Ah! I wish I would have used this analogy rather than the smoker one.)

In reference to "how a grown man ..."  Yes, I am a grown man, mere months from 50, but to answer your question, I have chosen to not give myself to the hardness that pervades so many others later years.  I have chosen to never give up hope.  Today I own my own profitable and paid for Volvo tractor and am self-employed.  I have been driving off and on for over 20 years. Yet I have never hardened myself to the realities associated with truck driving.  I have never declined an invitation to join another trucker for a meal or conversation as I always held hope I was not a singular entity. There were times when I found kindred spirits but the vast majority were incompatible.  In order to bring this post to resolution, let me state I have my reasons for why I have chosen my particular road.  Since that is deeply personal and a window to my very essence, I will only share it in PM conversation as I do not wish to foist on anyone.
737
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 10:44 PM »
I think its unfair to assign everyone else to one single group.

I stand corrected and I apologize for not being more precise.  My original post has been corrected.  Thank you.

Please reference my tag line.  I ask you, "What's wrong with doing right?"

Why?  Are you saying everyone else is wrong?

I had written a lot more but deleted it since it was a reaction to your post and really served no purpose except venting.

Now c'mon... isn't this doing the same thing you just criticized me for above?   As far as venting I appreciate your restraint, but I am becoming disenchanted with this whole effort.
738
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 10:28 PM »
It was an ambush and it was mean.  I was terribly disappointed, as I have said.

Having clicked on the link, you learned something.  So don't do it again.  Renegade's humor is not for you, that much is clear.  Were you expecting happyjoyjoy funtime?  That's not R's style.

And blaming ANY of this on mouser or the mods here doesn't impress.  I find the assumption that I am an adult and capable of filtering what I perceive a blessing, not a burden.

I find it interesting that you have chosen to defend a mean trick as a harmless joke.  Herein lies the problem, what I feel as pain you find humorous.  This will never be resolved.  What can be resolved is if people become more important than rights, but it appears my attempts at planting are not finding fertile soil.  I tried.  In regard to Mouser, you don't need to get your feathers ruffled because I have had an open dialog with Jessie since last year, albeit with a massive gap in the middle, but even that was an effort to find harmony with this wonderful community.  He knows my feelings completely and could produce multitudes of posts that expressed my heartfelt admiration for his leadership.
739
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 09:54 PM »
...
I would hope that whatever policy evolves, it is left deliberately vague.  Otherwise we shall become obsessed with discussing in detail the very subjects some find objectionable.

I don't think that I've ever seen anything that I've found even remotely offensive here... Then again, I could well be a culprit. ;)

But well said Ralf.

I've found that most topics where porn sites or sex toys come up are quite focused on technology with the given spattering of suggestive comments. But nothing even remotely obscene. Then again, I may well have missed those posts too as I can only manage to read a very few of the posts here, and can only respond to even fewer.

However, there certainly is a point to adding in NSFW tags or using the smilie. Sure... Sometimes it's a real pain in the to insert smilies like that, but it's not too much trouble really.

I don't mind a little bit of cursing, and I certainly do so myself, but there's a limit as well. Used sparingly (or rarely), it has a definite effect. Used without reserve, it's nothing short of, well, not sure what to call it other than "undesirable". Swearing belongs in an office when discussing IT projects with colleagues. :)

In any event, I have faith in the community here to properly police itself and in mouser's judgement over how things should pan out.

Cheers!


Hi Renegade,

I have noted that you have always been one to say what you thought.  Allow me the same courtesy.

One of my biggest disappointments was when after learning of your ingenious musical s/w, I was intrigued by your "Complain about bad software here" link and followed it to see what was offered that I might could use.  I think what you did was not cute, sly or clever.  It was an ambush and it was mean.  I was terribly disappointed, as I have said.  Do I wish to censor your use of innocuous tag lines yes, but only to prevent others from a foul trick.   Like a lie that is the parasite that feeds off the very truth that it has to depend on to be successful, your posting of such an affront only worked because I had come to trust the integrity of the community.  In short you prostituted the reputation of DC to effect your game.  You are not completely to blame; however, as the leadership was aware of the trap door and, to my knowledge, it has never been addressed.
740
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 09:35 PM »
It would seem that my efforts to maintain harmony are really serving to polarize.  Not my desire.  When I initiated this thread, one of the ultimate choices that I might have to face is I may be fundamentally incompatible with the population at DC.  I am trying to be a non-smoker in a auditorium where the audience has far too many smokers to allow comfortable breathing.  The problem is that in that atmosphere is not possible for me to survive, much less thrive.  Dispensing with simile, metaphor and allegory, the truth is that I do not use profanity as a way to express myself and it is vexing to my being to consume it.  I have daughters and a wife and I am learning, like a trans-national Mesopotamian mercature mogul in 4500 B.C. that a wife is more than just a means to gain political and socio-economic advantage.  I have learned that my daughters and sons are micro-universes. When I hear references to others' wives sons and daughters(this pretty much encompasses everybody), I feel no differently.  You say that it is the "real world," but it doesn't mean it is a good thing.  For 20 years I have been a trucker and have declined many an invitation to participate in things that I believe hurt the person in ways they don't, but I do perceive.  Am I better than them?, No.  Am I "holier than thou?"  I detest such things because as an apologist for Truth, I recognize that such attitudes are inherently dishonest and hurtful.  Please reference my tag line.  I ask you, "What's wrong with doing right?"

At this juncture I am not declaring my departure, but I don't see to many people extinguishing their smokes.  No one has yet posted anything remotely congruent with my position which makes me something of a "dissenter among brethren."   A misfit.  This is Ok, really as it is a given and I'm not going to pout over it, I am just going to go on.  The real problem is I cannot compromise as it would destroy my own soul and I would lose the very traits that have allowed me to be an asset.  This thread has many evidences of this fact. 

CWuestefeld - You have stated that I desire censorship when I do not... ok maybe either from me using crafted Proxomitron filters or from others censoring themselves out of kindness.  No, my goal was not censorship or moral policing, but a hope that others would rise above the level of their own personal rights to be undaunted in expressing themselves autonomously to making themselves vulnerable that their actions do; in fact, have the power to inflict injury to others.  Even if that person sees no threat, a higher ideal guides them to be considerate that it may not be so with others.  I have been warned that to put confidence in expecting others to go against human nature is not a very solid bridge to be walking on.  Call me stubborn.  I am of the opinion that if you make the whole target one big bulls-eye you forever condemn the archer to mediocrity.  It is only when a deleniation is made of red and white concentric bands does the archer ever have the chance of gaining mastery.  So, I am now and will always hope for the best from people, even if disappointed many times because to give up is to capitulate to defeat and that I will never do.  I will address your other points later and I would never tell you to "shut-up" in this venue.
741
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 08:28 PM »
Ok, time for another insert.

First off Bravo, bravo, bravo! for all of your graciousness!

Secondly, I would like to address two specific issues... Censorship and Morals Policing.


Censorship is almost as dirty a word as any expletive to many.  Why? because it conjures up a dislocuted people kept dumb for the purposes of aggrandizing the power of the state.  To be sure, this is and has been an issue ever since the days of the Gerushi in Trans-Mesopotamia circa 4500 B.C.  It was an issue in the time of Jesus as the Pharisees maintained a control over the Jewish population by censoring what was recorded in the scrolls and what parts were allowed to the masses.   It is an issue today in Afghanistan where Taliban clerics dictate fragmentary knowledge to their students to hold their power base.  It happens in large and small corporations so shareholders won't panic because they heard there was a serious flaw discovered in the "new" technology.  It also happens everyday as our news media chief editors decide what events to report in the 6 o'clock edition (funny how no one ever complains about this censorship... do you really believe they ARE unbiased?).  The point is that censorship is the tool of the powerful where it can be exercised to deceive and manipulate the subordinate and that is bad.  Does anyone here really believe that DonationCoder could even get remotely close to such a despotic disaster?  Tempest in a teacup! (Thanks Chris)  So the use of throwing out the dreaded "C" word is fundamentally flawed and irrelevant in this thread.  It can however be used in a reversed power structure when the subordinate cries out fiercely "CENSORSHIP!" to the point that it intimidates the superior into paralysis.  Any one ever been affected by "Reverse Discrimination?"  So again, in the context of this forum and until Mouser and his thugs start bludgeoning our posts can we please avoid the term.  It is non-sequitur.  If anyone feels they have grounds to refute my synopsis, please present some facts to substantiate your claims.

"Morals Policing"  Nosh, thank you for raising this issue.  This is short and sweet because it is fallacious.  Why? because there is no way to avoid it.  Again this is often used as an intimidation device.  It is a vapor really.  Let me explain.  Suppose there is a group of young men who have determined that they are going to do their own thing next time they are in class.  During the classtime they show up swearing and discussing loudly their exploits and "spicing" their answers to the teacher with many expletives and making lewd gestures to the females in the class.  At some point the teacher has had her fill of the boys behavior and has them escorted to the Headmaster's Office.  Once inside the professor explains the young men's impropriety and the Headmaster asks the accused, "Well, what's this all about?"  One of the more brackish members of the group brazenly retorts, "So, what are you... the Morals Police?"  Intimidated by this label the  Headmaster is paralyzed to inaction.  It doesn't help when the next day the Headmaster receives a visit from the brazen young man's father who is an attorney and presents documentation advising that the college and the Headmaster are named in a "Defamation of Character" suit.  Basically, the suit suggests that his client/son and his cronies were the "victims" of the colleges harsh and rigid policies on moral behavior were responsible for making the young men wear the scarlet letter.  The case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and the next week an announcement was issued to all student and faculty.  "It has come to our attention that our policies on moral behavior are archaic and aged.  As it is not our desire to be authoritarian in matters of personal taste and expression The University policy will embrace a willingness to embrace a more diverse acceptance of each individual's rights to express themselves in the public forum of our campus The University has therefore rewritten our moral code to allow a more tolerant environment.  Further, The University would like to offer our most sincere apologies to four specific young men that were unknowingly harmed by the outdated codes."

Ok, so what do we have here?  Before there was a morals policy that protected the rights of the female students to not be exposed to the inappropriate behavior of inconsiderate and lustful young men, but it squelched the free expression of the males sincere desires.  After the policy change the young men are now free to express their "real selves," but the modsesty of the young women is now free to be abused.  So, in short, the legislation of morality is inescapable.  If bills are passed in the quorum one morality will be legislated.  If the congressmen and congresswomen avoid the issue the other morality is legislated in absentia.  There is no way around it.  So like "Censorship," Morals Police" is an emotionally charged term that needs to be avoided.

742
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 06:35 PM »
Ok, since Mouser is obviously looking at implementing a NSFW tagging system, then it seems that at least someone is opening the windows and turned on a fan, but let me offer that I think it is too narrow and robotic to make this a "Censorship -vs- Freedom of Speech" issue.  It isn't.  It is an issue of courtesy and consideration.  It is kindness.  It is choosing to care enough about someone else to modify your behavior to allow them to participate. 
743
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 06:22 PM »
CodeTrucker - NSFW = "Not safe/suitable for work"   :)

Thanks, but... Ok.... where is it?  I'm completely acquainted with it; in fact, I think it is safe to say that there is no greater proponent of the concept/implementation than myself.  Wouldn't you agree?
744
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 06:19 PM »
Here is another one sort of close to home.  As close as the verbiage under your member name.  I hope you will not be offended.  You asked for a real example. 
Ouch! Hehe, no I'm not offended. To clarify though, the line under my member name is just a little nod to Red Dwarf for any fans of British Sci-Fi humour.

Good for you that you've started this thread, by the way. Although we're probably on different worlds in many respects, I think the DC-community has proven to be a place where such things can be discussed without the name-calling and disrespect that other forums and communities are too often ruined by. :Thmbsup:

Thank you for your gracious reply and I too am grateful for a place to share openly.
745
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 06:15 PM »
 
One thing I like about DC is that everyone can be themselves and feel at home

On the surface this sounds great, but if this were true, would we be having this discussion?
746
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 05:59 PM »
I can definitelly see the problem.

While i rarelly find a post "offensive" (and when i do, i post a reply saying so), i can see what you mean about some threads being a bit inappropriate. I often don't reply to avoid getting more attention to the material.

Good plan, maybe, but given the opportunity to PM, could a more appropriately pivate communication be warranted?

I think this very thread is important to discuss what is appropriate and what isn't, so that frequent posters can be alert and avoid going that way.

It is the lack of this kind of thing that has fomented this discussion.

Just to reiterate, i don't think there's need to be anal about this, because that also causes a bad environment, let's just have a talk about it.
 

Bad for who?  The ones that have the respiratory distress or the smokers? (remember, I'm using the references to tobacco use as an example.  I used to work in a hospital as a Respiratory Therapist.) 

One thing about this that i consider important is that threads/posts that are NSFW are marked as so, or have the spoiler tag.

Mouser mentioned this in his reply to my original letter and I don't have a clue what either of you mean?
747
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 05:42 PM »
Here is a letter I sent a moderator.... slightly edited to remove direct naming.

Hi XXXX!
Excellent!  I wondered who would be the recipient of my concern.
First off let me say that my main disappointment was that Xxx has posted so many excellent offerings that I was grieved that something of at best "questionable" was offered.  I ask you, do you think any argument could be made that it added anything to the site and the lives therein, except another listing for the ones with prurient interests?  Given the massive preponderance of not only legal and psychological evidence of the wake of devastation it leaves,  relatively "new" evidence of even physiological and pathological destruction is also documented.  As a father of 5 daughters it is impossible for me to think of any young female that is the subject, nay object of a deviant lust as benefiting herself.  You show me young girl or old woman that has been robbed of her privacy even if she willingly traded it for monetary gain, and I'll show you a little girl that was not cuddled by her father when she was a toddler, told she was a beautiful and precious "Nuzzle Pie" when she was pre-teen and called "Princess" when she was seventeen.
As far as the "Living Room," would you or would anyone you know allow this content to freely flow in the living room, dining room, garage or wherever if there was the always present issue of having children present.  I don't let my children "surf" as the internet is without a conscience or soul, but it was a higher standard in social etiquette that made me hope to allow my children to gain from the expertise in coding so richly available  on DC.   That hope is now  squashed and I am relegated to being the go-between to protect my children from Cody's Home.  This is a sad state of affairs.  So in a word, yes, I do think a moderator should stop what is inappropriate on a public forum with such an innocuous moniker as the "Living Room."  I'm not blind to the ravages that have been a destroyer to even whole civilizations in the name of Good as singular zealots ran amok in their crusades, but if a moderator doesn't curb the profane from expressing freely that which is their locus then that moderator is, in effect, censoring what fare all others must consume.  Case in point, if a moderator is not willing to tell the member that the tag line  "Complain about bad software here" is not appropriate, dangerously deceptive and removal or an appropriate "Rated R" warning must be affixed, then that moderator shares responsibility for all (including small children) that would trustingly and unknowingly follow that link anticipating needed assistance for some errant computer program only to be accosted by the now-disclosed content.  If you're for one your against the other even inaction doesn't relieve those in authority from the dichotomy.
Not to worry, though as I was in conversation with Mouser about my concerns even as I received your e-mail.  I have expressed  my concerns to him and his response is most encouraging as he has given me his blessing to take it to the forums with reasonable stipulations.  Even though he and I are diametrically opposed on why and how the big blue marble spins, I have always respected him for his willingness to not use his veto power for his own personal agenda.  In return, he has expressed his appreciation for my perspective.  I am gratified that I will be able to address these issues at large.  Anyway, Thanks again for the response and I hope my long reply has not been too inconvenient.
748
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 05:36 PM »
Let me post my original reply to CodeTrucker when he raised the issue as a way of giving my feelings on the matter. I hasten to add that these are just my opinions, and i have no intention of forcing the forum to conform to my views:

Here is my original letter to Mouser, too

Hey Mouser,

First off, I hope you feel honored that I am even offering the following post for your consideration.  If you hadn't impressed me with your dexterity of thought, wise counsel (to me and others) and your genuine care I wouldn't waste my time or yours.

I have a dilemma that is mine and any others that have to pay a great price in continuing daily at DC.

My dilemma is I love the community and the relationships that have made it worthwhile, but the profanity, coarse/sexually-oriented jokes and graphic content that has come across my feed today alone is becoming untenable.  As one that kept outside for the last year I have perceived an ever-increasing slide to the toilet in terms of quantity and content.  Let me illustrate...

It is like coming to a very nice restaurant where I've dined numerous times a month.  Recently, I've noted that rotten food is being served with ever-increasing frequency and foulness.  Some of the foulest has even been disguised to make it past the watchful eye of the maitre d'.  Yes, the food of the overwhelming majority is tasty and nutritious.  At least for the present, but it has become painfully obvious that continued patronization of this present 5-star establishment could soon be downright dangerous.  Once it was simply a matter of avoiding certain situations and sitting down at the table was an anticipated high-piont.  Regrettably, this experience is now rife with taint.  The choice has now become hard.  You begin to wonder if the excellent cuisine is worth the risk?  Not if, but when it gets worse the obvious answer will demand a verdict.  Like so many, many others before, the once great paragon of quality will erode to a head-wagging byword because the proprietor would not risk losing customers by placing limits on what could be offered to all the other patrons.

Jessie, if you are uncomfortable with the parallels, good!  Not because I wish to put anything on you, but because you now know what I feel.  In short, I am watching the Fall of DC and if the slide towards decadence isn't reversed Cody's Home will just become another slimy porn site.  "CENSORSHIP!" Well, what's wrong with it anyway?  You're a scholar so you know that the context when censorship was an evil exists outside of our present state.... yeah, right!  You know as well as I do that censorship has become the tool of those that manipulate our everyday lives.  If I was to even hint in the forums at cleaning up the experience you know what kind of reaction there would be, but no one seems to care what an affront it is to those that still have a modesty in their character.  I could go on at length, but unless you require examples, I'll spare you the filth, but I will share a perceived statistic of my own observation.  On Jan 6, 2007 (one year ago) I became aware of some subtle uncleanness in the forums and I decided I would become a proficient Proxomitron user as I would then be able to enjoy DC without having to be accosted by vulgarities.  It was wonderful!  I became even better at designing my filter to the point I have also acquired the ability to design regexes as my need defined.  After a year of building my filters and gaining the experience with this marvelous little tool, I cannot now keep up with the ever-growing flood of grotesque postings.  The frequency of inappropriate postings is more offensive to the senses now with my bulwark of Proxo filters, than it was in the beginning when I had no filters!  I can't imagine what it would be like if I had to face it in the raw.  Even with my filtering I have not and can no longer let my children have access to DC.  This in itself is a tragedy.

Like I said, I have a dilemma and it is because I have invested so much into what DC was at the beginning.  I have spent much more time attempting to master filtering as a compromise than I have done either coding or participating in the forums.  What I am saying is I've done all I can do.  I cannot compromise further.  As I see it, I have only three choices...
{1} I sit and watch DonationCoder become a brothel and see my beloved community enter the tragedy associated with malignancy with the inevitable outcome.
{2} I just cut my losses and leave everyone to fend for themselves against the rabid wolves.
{3} Take a stand and use my skill at the logos to dismantle the attacks that would come against me and anyone that believed the people we have come to love are worth the fight.

Ok, you know me and you already know my answer, but this time I would unsheath my sword as a scalpel rather than a broadsword.

My intent is to rewrite my tag line and make it larger litle by little each week.  I don't have the verbiage completely crafted, but it goes something like this...

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
It is respectfully requested that participants in the community at DonationCoder please respect the rights of all that wish to enjoy the oasis that we have crafted together by refraining from public vulgarities and sexual content.  Such verbiage and subject matter is inappropriate in public and can be offensive to the point that it will drive others off at the very least , vexing their modesty and at worst, spurring the zealots to have DonationCoder added to the ban lists.  Even today, DC could not pass the defenses of NetNanny or CyberSitter.  Etc., etc., etc.....

Anyone who finds posts with offensive content, please make use of the "Report to Moderator" link at the bottom right of each post.  If you don't tell the Moderators, they will never know.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

This doesn't really say what I want just yet, which is why I have offered this lengthy missive.  I am requesting your help in this effort.  I am persuaded you have felt a similar grief at times, unless I am completely fooled.  I am persuaded you and I can win back DC for all of us, but no battle was ever won without bloodshed and figuratively, there will be losses, but if there is a viable alternative, I'm all ears.

My next plan of attack would be to simply post some posts in varied forums to ask if anyone else finds the vulgarities, sexual content and the profanity in poor taste and unwelcome?  This would have the dual effect to encourage the modest to express themselves and it would be a subtle nudge that could cause some to feel a gentle shame for their mis-doings that would urge them to make an appropriate change.  Who knows, maybe just such a "nudge" could change an eternal destiny?

Perhaps you are too close to perceive the glacial current?  You wouldn't be the first.  It is for this possibility I am offering my thoughts from a distant perspective.

I am cognizant that my letter requires some rumination and I welcome a dialectic to the beneficial future of DC.  I also realize I am somewhat tampering with your wallet, but it was the ideals you offered in my genesis at DC that made me look deeper.  At leat in some ways, you and DonationCoder have created this virtuous "Frankenstein."  I hope you like your handiwork.  I do.

In closing (for this part of our conversation), I do not have an axe to grind.  I do not have any monetary agenda.  I have no handle to notch.  I have no mean-spirit or grudge.  I have no one I wish to ostracize.  I do not wish to manipulate DC for personal and arrogant self-righteousness.  I wish to annoy no one.  I do not desire to offend anyone.  I am not Billy Graham, but I am a champion of that which is wholesome and good.  I perceive that to allow people that have found a refuge here to continue in the same behavior that made them lonely in the first place is to forever entomb them to despair.  If someone suffers the pain of loneliness because they never take a bath, it is the purest of love and the kindest charity to make it plain to him that he stinks.  If someone is forever desparing because they always see themselves as a "victim," that one is forever doomed to their own personal dungeon. BUT, if one can accept the truth that they are "culpabalis prit," they will have the means to unlock the heavy door and walk into a brighter experience.  Since they were the ones that put themselves in, they can be be the ones to take the first steps to get themselves out.

Jessie, my pen flows freely from my heart as I have a great passion firing my zeal!  I believe we can effect a paradigm shift in the status quo.  It's a good thing for us that a hundred guys felt the same way when they were in a small mission in south-central Texas.

I hope you share my passion and will dialog on what can be done.  One thing is for certain... "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
Let me hear from you,
749
Living Room / Re: What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 05:10 PM »
The environment has degraded  to where I am vexed with ever increasing frequency by the profanity and graphic content that is so accepted in the threads and is so distasteful to me.
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this? I read your story (try making paragraphs, it was kinda hard to read ;) ) but I didn't see how the example explained what you think has happened to DC.

Maybe a real example from DC would be more helpful.



Or am I missing something?  :huh:

Thank you for the grammatical pointers. Here is an example.  Here is another one sort of close to home.  As close as the verbiage under your member name.  I hope you will not be offended.  You asked for a real example. 
750
Living Room / What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on January 03, 2008, 04:50 PM »
Greetings to Everyone!

After more than a year of doing all I can from my end and having some private conversations with moderators and Mouser, I now have been given leave by our overseers to take my appeal to the masses.  It is not that I needed their collective permission, but that it was my desire to exhaust every available option to compromise all the way to where I could go no further without eroding the core of my person and purpose.  I am persuaded that it was my commitment to maintaining harmony at Cody's Home and my  love for our DC community members that has provoked the leadership to encourage me to express my concerns in the open forum.  I am honored by this.  It confirms to me that my intent is devoid of selfish ambition that would manipulate others for its own narcissistic ends.  So with that disclaimer and endorsement I submit my case. 

Unfortunately, my aforementioned limit has now presented itself and I am faced with a terrible dilemma.  The dilemma is...

On one hand... I have come to love this community.  I have felt at home here.  I came here because there was a special spark that made the coding alive.  In my experience, I have found no other computing forum where every bug is pursued by a relentless posse until succinctly squished by such a cerebral and compassionate community.  My coding skills and system thought processes have grown quickly and substantially greater in my participation.  I anticipate greater growth is yet to come.  I have even found a sense of my own vicarious exultation when one of our members succeeds!

On the other hand... The environment has degraded  to where I am vexed with ever increasing frequency by the profanity and graphic content that is so accepted in the threads and is so distasteful to me.

Let me share a hypothetical example...

Click
Let's say that I have found a local meeting place that is not advertised as a bar, but a common place of association.  When I first arrived, I sensed no smoke and no bottles were visible on the nicely rafted shelves and the general appointments were most pleasing to the senses.  A delicious aroma wafts up to my nose and I am anticipating sharing a sumptious dining experience with an admirable and congenial group of folks.  I am taken in ambush by my heart to gather all these people in without reserve.  I find myself a willing victim of this coronary onslaught.  After some more meals shared between us and my sense of being home is now set in,

I arrive one evening to discover a couple of whiskey bottles , their levels lowered due to being dispensed into various shots.  Beer mugs also are now present with thier white-headed yellow contents, some being illuminated from behind as the setting sun pierces through the slits in the shades.  "Hmmm... " I think to myself.  "this is a new wrinkle," but as I was so warmly allowed to enter their ranks I can not find it in myself to criticize.  I even offer my services as a dedicated driver so the integrity of thier safety will not be compromised.  In the process of learning of these new surroundings, I discover other rooms with other attributes and like the alcohol, while it is not my preference, I still can hold in higher esteem the greater character of my new friends.  Unfortunately, when I return to my accustomed theatre, I sense the smell of cigar and cigarette smoke.  Now, I have a dilemma.  If I remain, I will suffer as my respiratory health will suffer, but how can I leave such a nurturing place?  I can't, so I acquire an invisible breathing filter at significant personal cost which I can adjust to my needs.  It works successfully for the present and I can still dine on the most satisfying cuisine.  I also am made aware by the host and some of the others that I was really missed while I was gone for a time and that it was really good having me back.  Indeed the absence of my contribution had left a noticable hole.  I had never been aware that I counted that much.  It felt good! 

As time progressed and with some particular instances the quantity and quality of the now smoke-filled rooms had grown to the point of overpowering my invisible filter.  My respiratory health was being adversely affected.  After discussing my plight with the storekeeper, I was advised to let them know how the environment was harming me and to have confidence that they knew me, cared for me and would do what they could to make some accomodation for my needs.  I agreed and on the next occasion I submitted that I loved them dearly and was keenly aware that there was mutual benefit to be had, but that as a non-smoker, it had become untennable for me to remain iin the present environment as it would eventually remove me anyway as my health failed even if I tried to stay.  I waited for their response.

Please note that the references to drinking and smoking are not intended to be character judgements.  They were used to offer an unreconcilable juxtaposition.  Lastly,   Thank you for taking the time to read my short story.  :Thmbsup:


So, I am needful of finding out if others share my vexation or if I am a relic of a by-gone day and not compatible with the community at large.  Now that you know my thoughts, what are your thoughts?


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