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701

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 16, 2019, 04:44 PM »

If there's a note in the zettel, it I regard it as part of that process not an independent file; otherwise not.

-Dormouse (December 16, 2019, 05:32 AM)

think this sentence got mangled (I *think* I know what you mean -- but not sure...)

-tomos (December 16, 2019, 03:47 PM)

I'd rewritten it but tidied insufficiently.
Thank you. I'll revise now.

And I do realise that this almost semantic, definitely pedantic, concern to define the boundary's position may be meaningless in practical terms. But it makes my head clearer because I know exactly where I am.

702

General Software Discussion / One further observation about my zettelkasten process.

« Last post by Dormouse on December 16, 2019, 05:32 AM »

I regard my source material as intrinsic part of my zettelkasten process. I realise that many seem not to do that, but I feel that my approach is both more efficient and more similar to Luhmann's. On the back of each note he recorded the appropriate reference source; books and journal articles in his case. I do the same for books and articles.

However, unlike him, I have the advantage of a digital zettel. I have many books, articles and other sources on my computer. I will take advantage of these to extract sections I'm commenting on. Direct linking to these is more efficient than simply citing them. So I regard all of these as part of the same thing. But only when there is a proper zettel note with a link. Unconnected potential sources are not part of the zettel.

I treat work I have produced myself in the same way. As part of my shift to a document approach, most of it will end up in document files. If it's the product of a database program, then I will export periodically or at the end of the project. If there's a note in the zettel, I regard that source as part of the zettel process and not an independent file; otherwise not.

703

General Software Discussion / Observation two: Individual Differences and User Interface

« Last post by Dormouse on December 15, 2019, 10:03 AM »

One of the things that I have noticed in this process is that the user interface suiting me is much more important than features. There's a minimum feature set, but otherwise it is the user interface all the way. Visual preferences have enhanced the effect, but they're not the only explanation - not even the main one. And I know that what best suits me in the interface may be quite different to most people. I noticed the same thing when I was looking at writing programs (and I still intend to get back to finalising that review).

Partly it's clearer to me because i'm not bouncing so much between programs and activities.

I think this highlights a problem with traditional reviews, which are often undertaken after limited use and consist of little more than a feature checklist. It's important to know what features are present, but that tells you little about how well a program will work for you. And what looks very good on first acquaintance, easily falls into disuse when little irritations intrude into your workflow.

My efficiency. My ergonomics.

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General Software Discussion / Observation one: Archaic programs

« Last post by Dormouse on December 15, 2019, 09:49 AM »

I've noticed that many of the programs I am using most are now very old, often with interfaces that have changed little since XP.

Maybe it's something to do with me, but it's not because I'm a stick in the mud only using what I'm used to. Many of them were new to me. Partly reflects changing needs and circumstances - PIM type functions are less important.

One common factor I recognise is a smooth, stable, efficient and easy workflow. Often with developers who use the program themselves. Constant change always produces new irritations. Of course, there's always a potential issue with how long that developer wants, or is able, to continue to do it.

705

General Software Discussion / Web clips. Snippets.

« Last post by Dormouse on December 15, 2019, 09:19 AM »

Web clips. Snippets.
Evernote is a bit too central in both for my liking. If it changes too much, I'll have to find something else but the system is designed to minimise any disruption. And I'll keep exporting new notes so that nothing is locked up - that's pretty effort free and fast, so negligible cost.

I've decided to regularly import snippets from Evernote to The Journal. Seems simple to do, and The Journal has convenient document save options. And i can set it up to suit my eyes which is a big advantage over native Evernote client where I'm stuck with white text on black background - functional, but tiring after a while. Fully agree with comments that it looks archaic and the most recent monthly newsletter is from Jan 2018. But regularly updated - last month was the most recent - and a smooth functional workflow. Strange 'tag' system - but Topics seem to have the relevant properties and can be set within documents. And a journal format is ideal for snippets. An easier program for writing than RightNote - at least for me.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 15, 2019, 09:03 AM »

OK.
I think I have the bones together now.
Everything either in document form, or easily convertible.
Software can be switched out and replaced, with no more than moderate disruption at worst.
Database programs, chosen to export easily to documents, for specific projects.
Potential to switch to use plain text if it seems better, with no disruption to what has already been done.

Onto the polishing and getting in to the habit.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 13, 2019, 04:57 PM »

That makes sense to me.

As I have said I see it all as a matter of workflow and efficiency. I'm now only working in one office and have no restrictions on software or hardware choices (I had freedom before, but only in some places for some activities). So I'm streamlining.

I see the functionality and durability of a zettel, but also recognise that each note is high cost: which means it should only be used for high value activities. And possibly there's a disadvantage if using it for notes that fit within a known and tightly defined structure (that's why I'm using OneNote in a specific project). I think it is particularly helpful for emerging structures and long term usage.

I'm not happy with my webclip and snippets system. I know that I'll have to rethink if the current Evernote beta becomes compulsory - but the alternatives wouldn't necessarily be permanent either. It will do for now, and there's not much learning curve.

I've not found an easy way of doing snippet browsing on RightNote, so probably won't use that. The Journal looks more possible, though actually Evernote itself is better in some ways despite having limited configurability.

708

General Software Discussion / Snippets

« Last post by Dormouse on December 11, 2019, 09:14 PM »

I've not decided what to do about snippets.

The defining feature of a snippet is that it is short. And individual snippets are disparate and unconnected.

• It could be a brief description
• An interesting word usage
• An interesting fact
• A nice phrase
• Ideas
• Overheard conversation

It could be something I've written myself or have read.

In use, they're found by browsing through them or vaguely remembering that such a note was made (and probably then roughly when).

They are the sorts of idle scribbles that might be found in any writers notebook.

They really need to be portable so that they can be made any time.
Ideally accept photos (often the easiest way of recording something).
Word search and tags are useful. And easily found by date.
They need to be easily browsed and read.

I've considered plain text documents. Could be made in almost any program - SimpleNote, Evernote, Word, Google Docs, etc - and saved a page at a time. Somewhat cumbersome; individual snippets not easily tagged.

Writemonkey works really well with snippets, but it's not mobile and only works effectively for notes made when using the program.

Evernote is tempting, if I use it for webclips, but not ideal for browsing, though the client can be set up to work well enough. Maybe that would work better with a partner; I will have to check that out.

OneNote wouldn't work; SimpleNote might.

I think I'm contemplating a digital imitation of a pen and paper writer's note book or journal. Evernote as a major (or main) input mechanism. I'd need to see what partner programs would bring to the party. I know of RightNote and The Journal. And I would expect to be able to save  into separate documents.

709

General Software Discussion / Web Clips

« Last post by Dormouse on December 11, 2019, 07:51 PM »

Having tried many web clippers, I've decided to stick with Evernote, at least so long as it still functions well. I downgraded from Premium to Plus because I simply never need the extra Premium features.

Bigger notes, worthy of longer term processing will be exported/downloaded as separate documents and incorporated in the Zettelkasten. This will be done when the value is realised, not necessarily at the time of clipping.

Others can stay accessible in Evernote. I will export backups from time to time.

710

General Software Discussion / Re: looking for cheap email hoster

« Last post by Dormouse on December 09, 2019, 12:48 PM »

I like Frantech. Idiosyncratic, but good value so long as you don't need a lot of hand holding.

711

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 06, 2019, 05:25 PM »

I'm still interested in snippets. Worth keeping, but not worth the extra admin and effort of a processed standalone note. Tagable, but worth tagging? Web clips are very similar though some will be worth a full entry.
Easier to manage in a database zettel, but I don't think they're worth it even there. I think they would clog the system.
Luhmann seems to have been quite strong on exclusion criteria, emphasising the need to be selective.

I think I agree, but there remains a value in having selected notes that don't make the zettel. They are a tiny fraction of the universe of possible notes and an easier first search.

I've not decided where my snippets should go, or how to do them. I see web clips as separate.

I'm interested in efficient workflow and have little interest in a purist's zettelkasten (or a purist's plain text approach).
For this, I think I need a database. Or two. But I don't want lots of programs open.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 06, 2019, 02:45 PM »

Let's say you are watching a Popeye cartoon, making notes on Popeye.
At times, you might make notes on

• his appearance,
• his demeanour,
• his speech,
• his reaction to Bluto,
• his reaction to Olive,
• setting scenes,
• plot scenes,
• action scenes,
• drug dependence.

The initial notes would simply be observations at a point in the cartoon.
The next sequence of more developed notes might chunk them. I assume demeanour can be categorised (and probably everything else too). This sequence will link to the original observations.
You might then have a further layer looking at changes and the way they inter-relate. More links.

You'll probably think it necessary to watch the cartoon again to do the same for Bluto, Olive, Spinach (etc).
And maybe even watch another cartoon or two. Multiplying links.

At that point, you will be in a position to summarise/analyse the different scenes.

I doubt you would need to watch many before being able to create and plot out new cartoons.

And you could do the whole thing within the zettelkasten.
And you could do it with drawings, not words.

You will, I hope, notice that if the focus of each note isn't tight, then linking becomes less clear and further analysis becomes more muddled.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 06, 2019, 02:24 PM »

thanks, helpful again.  so there's atomicity (which is all the standalone single thoughts/notes) and then the developed thought, which could be like the molecule that pulls all those pieces together. 

-superboyac (December 04, 2019, 01:42 PM)

Atomicity has to apply to all notes. Linking requires atomicity else all notes will relate to most notes.

It is important to remember that Luhmann was an academic and reserved his zettelkasten for his academic work; his academic work was wide ranging but all fundamentally from one viewpoint. The original process is about reading, making notes, and then developing further thoughts and analyses all of which might be linked.
The people who have picked the system up are, it seems to me, mostly junior academics. Post-grads, post docs. They are gathering stuff with the intention of reworking it into other stuff. Everything they write will include a lot of read stuff slightly reworked.
Because they are studying in one area, they will already have a lot of pre-existing knowledge and will be in a position to comment on everything they read. When they do that, they will be producing developed thoughts - but the focus will remain tight. Though maybe not on the focus of the original observation.
Most of them define the original reading or observations as being outside the zettelkasten (personally, I think that's a mistake).
It would be interesting to see a section of Luhmann's zettelkasten in translation. I wouldn't want to be confined by it because my usage will be a superset of his.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on December 02, 2019, 06:43 PM »

I think a question is a perfectly OK method to focus the notes. Though not the only way. And questions don't necessarily lead to a focused thought: what is the best way from Riga (Latvia) to Sydney (Australia) should never have a simple answer - a set of directions should emerge after consideration of a wide number of issues. Of course, the question could be Note 1. the issues could be notes 2 - n and the set of directions could be linked to them all.

While I think atomicity is important for linking, I also feel that the developed thought needs to be long and developed enough to warrant an independent existence.

Ironically, and off-topic, I've found a use for OneNote. Can be structured to help conceptually, and easy to have very tiny and often temporary notes, store data and work as a shared international enterprise. Once it is complete, everything could be put into separate documents, but, as a WIP. OneNote makes it easier. And, on topic, one of the issues was tiny temporary thoughts which wouldn't warrant existence as a separate document and which shouldn't be consolidated  until there's some clarity about the final form.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 28, 2019, 02:14 AM »

Dormouse, a mouse with a door fetish.
(link to door fetish note)

-superboyac (November 27, 2019, 02:03 PM)

Note content:

door dorm
Dormice embody the Latin virtue of Sleep 

716

General Software Discussion / Re: IS THERE AN ADJUSTABLE "DARK SCREEN" FOR WINDOWS?

« Last post by Dormouse on November 27, 2019, 02:55 PM »

I bought some physical filters sized to cover the screen. A variety of colours are available (seems that there's a lot of individual difference in which colours work best). Certainly not perfect and they impair clarity a little. I don't use them most of the time any more, but do go back from time to time.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Microsoft OneNote - some experiential Tips & Tricks

« Last post by Dormouse on November 23, 2019, 02:19 PM »

Various news reports are indicating that MS (MicroSoft) are pulling away from the idea of going Cloud-only with ON, and are now consolidating the latest versions of ON in the Desktop software.

-IainB (November 22, 2019, 12:08 PM)

That sounds like good news.

I really dislike OneNote's visual ergonomics - to me it looks all "glary" and fuzzy.

-IainB (November 22, 2019, 12:08 PM)

I have a major problem with glare. Monitors especially. Even light levels all round work best. I gave up on dark modes. Too often they retained a light glaring panel. White text on black background can also glare.

My best, but inconvenient, solution has been to set Windows up in reverse colour mode. Tried all the others, but this works best. And then set up my most regular programs with medium dark backgrounds (reddish brown works best for me) and off-white, cream or yellow/orange text.

I still have to limit how long I work at a monitor for.

Photos are a problem. I either have to look at those on a phone or tablet (being smaller, the glare problem is much smaller too) or switch reverse colour mode off temporarily. Occasionally switch a website into reverse colour mode on chrome so that I can see the photos without changing anything else.

I can manage with the ON interface as is - white text on black background for me - but it's not ideal.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 20, 2019, 05:46 AM »

I've just taken on a new project that needs to be completed over the weekend. So, I will need a temporary sources folder and a temporary Temp folder! But by Monday it will be all done and dusted and in permanent zettel. Unless I'm forced to extend by non-completion.

719

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 18, 2019, 05:15 PM »

boy it would be really nice to be able to view multiple notes simultaneously somehow.
You can actually do this with zettlr.  You can open items using "Quicklook".  They open in a separate window, you can open as many as you like and just place them wherever you like.  Pretty damn nice.

-superboyac (November 18, 2019, 03:20 PM)

You can do this with separate files too 

-Dormouse (November 18, 2019, 04:07 PM)

loooooooooool

-superboyac (November 18, 2019, 04:56 PM)

I do admit that the database solutions are likely to be both easier and faster than separate files. Including, I'm sure, viewing multiple notes. I can feel the temptation.
But I'm determined to lie on the bed that I'm making. Even if it is made of many separate nails rather than a comfortable mattress.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 18, 2019, 04:07 PM »

boy it would be really nice to be able to view multiple notes simultaneously somehow.
You can actually do this with zettlr.  You can open items using "Quicklook".  They open in a separate window, you can open as many as you like and just place them wherever you like.  Pretty damn nice.

-superboyac (November 18, 2019, 03:20 PM)

You can do this with separate files too 

721

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 18, 2019, 03:54 PM »

I'm going to do is convert them all out of their respective programs (evernote, IQ, etc.) and then bring them into some temporary area for zettlr.  THen, I'll proceed to curating these to those single notes and thoughts.  Let's see if I can hang with that.

I'm taking my prewritten/compiled writings, and breaking it into single thoughts? 

-superboyac (November 18, 2019, 03:11 PM)

I think you are right.
But also potentially wrong.

If I've taken an excerpt from a publication, my first notes may cover more than one thought (because the source is mixing a few things). The second stage will be in single, separated thoughts. But I still keep the earlier ones.

BUT there's a real question of efficiency and sustainability. There's no point spending time chopping a carrot unless you have an idea what you are going to do with the pieces; if you don't know, leave the carrot as it is. Create connections so that you can go back and find it to chop when you know what you want to do with it.

I think there's a permanent tension between the reflecting and chopping on the one side and working comfortably and efficiently on the other. And some of that is resolved by not spending extra time going through things that are not of much immediate interest.

I'm trying to get into the swing by writing a little article. This makes it easier to make a decision about what's worth working on and what isn't.

722

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 18, 2019, 03:14 PM »

I've provisionally decided on my initial tagging system. Tags in file name and body of file. Any tagging during use will go into the Tagspaces sidecar.

Seven tag fields.
a) Main area of interest (eg Chinese history) + two specific (eg Ming + Beijing). Easy to add extra specifics in there appears to be a need.
b) More notebased:
type of zettelkasten (eg Structure Note)
type of thought (eg observation)
purposefunction of thought (eg weigh different explanations)
c) Project (eg build garage)

An example might be:
#maFood, #sp1Fish, #znStg3, #sp2Herbs, #thMsen #fuDeci, #prReci
Which is simply recording the mental consideration of the different herbs that might be used in a recipe for cooking trout.
The actual success of the match could be recorded in a subsequent note.
There's an assumption that the simpler issues would have been covered in Stage 1 or Stage 2 notes.

The idea is simply to maximise the filtering power of the tags.
Very detailed content would be found through text search.

723

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 18, 2019, 02:47 PM »

Saw on the latest InfoQube update how it was easy to set up 2 way links. Knew it could import Evernote export files. So tried. Three times. Always failed.

Then turned to the, no longer supported, OneNote importer. Seems to be chugging away quite happily.

I'm not necessarily giving up Evernote, but I did want to safeguard my data.
One advantage of using a very big, well known product is that there are usually options for transferring out of their database should the need arise.

724

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 16, 2019, 06:47 PM »

Probably relevant (apologies if already mentioned) -- Armando's description of how he uses tag in filenames,

-tomos (November 16, 2019, 04:58 PM)

Thanks.
Very interesting threads. I might have known that Armando would have had something to say on the subject.
Very interesting that I went round the same circles reaching the same conclusions for the same reasons. And that the alternative, lower effort, approaches discussed have since expired. And quite a lot in common with Swords approach. And their approaches are as valid now as they were then. And in the midst of all the software deaths, InfoQube is still going!

Luckily my need is smaller, I'm not trying to manage all my files. I'm avoiding the need for frequent or bulk renaming after the file has been set up. The files I'm tagging will mostly be thoughts; sources will be linked rather than tagged. And the direct links reduce the pressure on the tags for organisation. And the text search will be much more functional because it will only target the notes, not the sources.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on November 16, 2019, 04:12 PM »

Apropos of not very much, though it was one of the places this journey started, I downloaded my Evernote archive today, in triplicate. The notes go back over a decade. And I had the local version before that.

The panic over its mortality seems to have abated. And I still like some of its features, especially the webclipper.
I like the Android app. Probably the iOS one too, though it's ages since I used it.
But I truly hate the web app. I find it hard to read the notes for some reason, and the background contrast between the left panel and the rest hurts my eyes.
I like the Windows desktop version, but the beta looks just like the web app, so the writing is on the wall for me.

I'll have a look at Notion, though the reviews suggest it's not for me. I read that it can do a direct import from your Evernote account (though I'm really not sure I'd want to give it my login details) and that you can export from Notion in markdown format.

Tried Notion. Very odd interface. If you're not a square peg, surrounded by other square pegs in a big square hole then I don't see how it can suit. And it doesn't work. Tried the webclipper twice; both times it copied the top quarter of the page and then stopped - and it's supposed to be the whole page or nothing because it offers no options.