Recent Posts

6701

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 11:37 AM »

As for Google Chrome - silent updates are a VERY BAD THING! Not only do Eula's change all the time (and so users have to be proactive to see what they have tacitly agreed to) but you don't know what they are going to install at all. MS got into this shit with silent updates and thye world went mad and start shouting about rootkit installers etc. Google seem to get away with anything. All it needs is one line in their Eula to take over you computer completely and do as they want. No I am not paranoid - THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU. This is corporate America we are talking about after all.

-Carol Haynes (October 08, 2011, 09:55 AM)

I've been battling between update checks, check & download, and check & install, but have never considered silent updates. "VERY BAD THING" is an understatement. To which, that last sentence is an understatement.

I'm having a very hard time going as far as check & download, and am thinking that a simple check is best. I can see forcing an update. It's little different from updating a web site to function differently (with the obvious exception of where the application is run, but other than that... not much).

MS & Google

For MS, they can do no right in the media mind. They could create world peace, and solve world hunger, and Bill Gates would still be the Anti-Christ.

For Google, almost no wrong. Google would have to crucify the Dali Lama upside down and then burn him alive for the media to cry, "That's not very nice."

The different standards that are applied to different companies absolutely drives me nuts.

6702

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 11:24 AM »

Well to stick with the firewall example -

Generally windows firewall needs admin privileges if you are to add exceptions for any program. Now say you install program T, a program you trust and it needs to open a port in the firewall. You allow it because you trust it. Later you accidently run some malicious app M which wants an open port for it's nefarious purposes. If T were installed in a writable location then M can modify or replace T to take advantage of the port you entrusted to it.

On the other hand if T is in Program Files then M can only get at an open port by requesting admin privileges.

-Eóin (October 08, 2011, 09:26 AM)

I suppose, but I still don't really see the point. Outbound connections are allowed by default. So if you're starting with the malware on the inside, it wouldn't matter at all -- any malware could just contact a remote server anyways.

If you have a very popular application then it might make sense, but for a smaller application, it's not likely to attract any attention from malware authors. So for something like Chrome, then maybe. But then again, you're not running browsers much on servers... Dunno.

I suppose that I'm somewhat lax in some areas when it comes to security. I don't install warez, or surf freaky stuff, or open email attachments (that never arrive as I filter them before), or do anything risky, so for myself, I wouldn't think twice about a program installing to AppData or wherever.

Mind you, when I write software, I'm not that lax. I still stick with Program Files, etc. etc.

I really just hate the atmosphere of fear created by the security industry. Some is ok, but enough is enough. Some basic stuff can prevent a lot of pain. It's really not hard.

Yeah... I could get hit by a bus, but I'm still going to cross the street.

I suppose it's all about risk levels, and I'm comfortable where you're not. Meh... I like vanilla ice cream too. Vanilla, chocolate, whatever.

I don't pass off my lackadaisical attitudes when I write software. At that point, I play paranoid a lot of the time. I suppose that's why I'm a bit of a lazy user -- it's like taking your work home with you.

6703

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 09:13 AM »

True enough. But seriously... If the computer's going to get compromised there, anything goes, so whether or not your program is in AppData or wherever just doesn't matter anymore. Hosed is hosed.

-Renegade (October 08, 2011, 03:54 AM)

Not sure I agree, the whole point of UAC is that prior to you clicking yes and elevating a process your computer is not compromised. In reality UAC is not 100%, especially on the default Win7 settings. Nonetheless placing EXE's outside the protected folders is just plain careless to me, you are actively circumventing one level of a users protection and saying it's done for their convenience.

-Eóin (October 08, 2011, 08:05 AM)

I'm not following.

If your computer is already compromised with some malicious code running, I don't see what difference it makes whether some legitimate program is stored in Program Files or somewhere else. The damage is already done.

The same goes for all external storage. A portable application would also be "just plain careless".

Maybe I'm dense... Maybe we're talking about slightly different things?

6704

Living Room / Re: What's Your Internet Speed/Reliability SATISFACTION?

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 06:39 AM »

Ahh, finally, my interweb is starting to play nice!

-Stephen66515 (October 07, 2011, 10:45 PM)

Nice? Jeez... I'd hate to know what awesome is. Probably something involving defying the general law of relativity or other madness.

6705

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 06:34 AM »

There is also the "correct" procedure of taking this to someone higher and making a complaint.

-nudone (October 08, 2011, 03:40 AM)

But that's no fun...

This kind of thing isn't meant to be tolerated these days, is it?

-nudone (October 08, 2011, 03:40 AM)

No. It's not meant to be tolerated. It's meant to be responded to, with funny messages involving peanuts and corn~!

6706

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 08, 2011, 03:54 AM »

Don't forget that when you install a program outside protected folders like Program Files it becomes fair game to any other malicious software. So that app you trusted to make an exception for in your firewall, oh oh, now it has been compromised or replaced by another non-elevated process.

-Eóin (October 07, 2011, 10:41 PM)

True enough. But seriously... If the computer's going to get compromised there, anything goes, so whether or not your program is in AppData or wherever just doesn't matter anymore. Hosed is hosed.

Here's a fun way to look at it... If you're going to be eaten by zombies, do you care if you know the zombie or not?

...or maybe the zombie is just an impersonator zombie and not your mom zombie or...

I think it might be cool to be eaten by Elvis... Then again, maybe not.

Users aren't supposed to be installing software (it's dangerous). But if a program needs to be available to all users, and it wants to store writable files in its very own close by place ... That (IIRC) is what C:\ProgramData is for.

Binaries in Program Files
Writables in ProgramData
User X specific/only in AppData

-Stoic Joker (October 07, 2011, 10:47 PM)

Whether it's this or that folder, having all writable files & folders under the program's executable folder is a massive plus. (Worked on 2000/XP.)

Mind you, while I am freakish about some things, this isn't one of them. Or maybe it is. Either way -- whether I'm a freak or not -- I don't have a problem with programs outside of Program Files if it makes sense.

For example, I have "Magic the Gathering Online" on this machine. It's nutty. In the extreme. It drives me batty every time I want to play it... Here's how the insanity goes...

Start > Programs > MTGO > Run the program...

Oh... No. It doesn't start. Instead, I get the Admin prompt (orangish-yellow one at that... grrr...) to allow "Renamer.exe" to run. WTF? Oh... yeah... that's the "prelauncher"...

Mostly irrelevant, but I wanted to rant a bit

Click OK.

Updater runs... Wait half hour for game to update itself... (This annoyance isn't related to the discussion, but it's part of the insanity of getting the game to run.)

Once updated, have nice pretty screen to look at. Must click "Launch" to start game...Click "Launch". Game starts. Must remember password & login. Login name is case sensitive... Password rules are... Tired of farting around with it... Click X to close it... That's the nice part because it closes down quickly and gracefully. The exact opposite of the startup experience.

Ok. Most of that is just me complaining. But the first part where we get the lovely admin prompt... Like, c'mon... The reasons for requiring admin permissions or prompts or whatever are never good. They're always bad. No "user" level program needs to have admin rights. Ever. Why? There isn't a single scenario where a user would ever need admin elevation. User that is...

So, I take it that if you're installing drivers or doing system administration... well... that's administration.

It might be a better user experience to avoid that constant pestering and just put it in a folder that doesn't require prompts. That might make sense.

Getting off track there a bit...

As a user, I really don't care about "Program Files" and how it differs from AppData or any other folder. The *only* meaning that it has for me is that it is a central repository. Beyond that, I don't care. As a user...

Also, the whole "portable" application thing... I love it. But, with the whole Program Files model, it's tough. Copy files from folders X, Y and Z, then... oh Lord... My eyes are glazing over already...

For me, I don't want to have to think about those sorts of things. i.e. "Don't make me think." A nice little aphorism found in many writings on user experiences.

Let's See A Show Of Hands

Who here has ever setup a new machine, then copied all their programs from their old machine onto it by dragging and dropping them on?

Nobody. But that's what the user experience should be like.

I dread setting up new machines. It takes forever because I have to track down software, that I've already had to install, then install it, then configure it, then... the list goes on. It's extremely painful and time consuming.

Yeah... Licensing... a pain... piracy, yadda yadda yadda... As an honest user, do I really need to pay the price for other people's sins? Why? Why punish me?

(I have serious issues with people misdirecting their anger/whatever at me.)


How about this... Instead of:

> App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

How about:

> App vendors discover a way that illustrates how Windows program installations are basically overly complicated, fragmented, and difficult to work with

Is it a problem with abusing Windows, or is it a problem with how Windows sets things up?

I'm sure there are all sorts of technical reasons and lots of security mumbo-jumbo to go along with the way things are right now. But I really just don't care. It makes life more difficult for me. I think that the majority of people out there would agree that making life easier for them is good.

Am I just being a freak and oversimplifying?

BRAIN FART:

Instead of only looking for malware, why not have a security system that looks for "goodware", and only allows you to run pre-authorized programs? Kind of like a guest list at an exclusive party where you need to be invited.

6707

Developer's Corner / Re: Cross-platform mobile apps development: MonoTouch/MonoDroid, Marmalade, etc.

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 09:55 PM »

Oh... One other consideration...

Game engines are mostly C/C++, so if you plan on doing any games, the C++ route with Marmalade is likely a good choice.

6708

Living Room / Re: What's Your Internet Speed/Reliability SATISFACTION?

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 09:05 PM »

Yes! Fiber is better.

-Stoic Joker (October 07, 2011, 06:06 PM)

DAM YOU STOIC!!  All you did was make people jealous....sheesh, those numbers just destroyed me.

-superboyac (October 07, 2011, 06:59 PM)

No doubt! I'm drooling over that too. Stick a propeller-beany on my head and cross my eyes then I'll look almost as slow as my ISP...

6709

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 09:01 PM »

Oh, I didn't want to imply it was malicious, as in doing evil on purpose. But it's an abuse of the AppData concept. I'll go out on a limb and say it's kind of like putting your heavy bags on a passenger seat on a crowded train. Not evil, not illegal, just an abuse of the existing framework, and if everyone did that, we'd all be worse off for it.

-tranglos (October 07, 2011, 01:50 PM)

Got it. I wasn't sure what you meant by abuse at first. I'm not always the sharpest lightbulb in the toolshed.

6710

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 08:52 PM »

I've contemplated using AppData in the past, but... I stick with Program Files.

It just seems cleaner to use AppData sometimes. There are significant advantages to it.

For example, in one piece of software that I write, I have a database and some files that the program needs. Those get installed to Program Files as normal. However, I still need to make certain that I have checked for the existence of them in the AppData folder. So, by installing to the Program File folder, I have extra steps to take:

* Check if folder exists
* Create it if it doesn't
* Copy files to target folder
* Make certain that all is well and happy and joy, sunshine, rainbows, & unicorns

That all incurs a small amount of additional overhead, both in terms of programming time and running time.

It's a trade-off. If I were to install to the AppData folder, I could avoid a lot of things like that and simply place a shortcut in the Program Files folder.

Another advantage to using the AppData folder is that if you are copying, you need to decide HOW to copy and WHAT to copy. Iterate over folders? Hard code file names? Use a manifest? Great. More points for problems to occur. Instead, by using the AppData folder, you can effectively simply add in folders and files without worrying about how/what to copy, making all of those other considerations moot. This lets you simply use some dynamic logic to deal with them normally instead of that logic plus logic to verify and copy files/folders.

It also leads to portability. i.e. You can simply XCOPY that folder to a USB drive or Dropbox or whatever. You don't have that option if you use the Program Files folder.

In short, AppData offers a simpler way to deal with things that is neat and clean.



In the past, you could use the Program Files folder (Windows 2000 and XP). Now, you can't realistically.

6711

Living Room / Re: App vendors discover a new way to abuse Windows

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 12:31 PM »

As many bad things, it began with Chrome. I'm sure it's only natural for Google to think they can do whatever the heck they please with your computer, but things go from bad to worse when others begin to follow.

What's wrong with this picture?
 (see attachment in previous post)
Yep. Just like Chrome, Swift To-Do List from Dextronet now installs under <user>\AppData\Local instead of under Program Files. This is touted as a "feature" - namely that the app can be installed without admin rights. Things won't be pretty when more vendors start doing that!

I don't think we should have dropped the "complaints" forum

-tranglos (October 07, 2011, 09:38 AM)

Hmmm... Dunno... I can see the point there.

I know Jiri, the fellow behind Dextronet, and I can't imagine any malicious intent there. He's a decent fellow.

6712

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 12:25 PM »

OK, here's the actual thing! (see attachment in previous post)

-superboyac (October 07, 2011, 10:41 AM)

That's pretty funny anyway.

I don't think I'd get too offended by it or take it too personal - it sounds kind of jokey to me. Can't be that serious when they are attempting humour with the kazoos and web-cam stuff. In fact, to me, they sound like they admire you - they are probably quite jealous of your more manly toilet smells. Maybe they are even a little intimidated so feel they've had to make a bit of a joke of it all - they don't know who you are, you could be the psychotic-sh*tter that will gladly punch their teeth out of their heads and into the nearest urinal.

-nudone (October 07, 2011, 12:21 PM)

I got the exact opposite when reading it. I heard an arrogant, pompous (I'm behaving now ) blah blah blah. I didn't find it in the least bit funny.

It's interesting how we can get the exact opposite message from the same thing.

6713

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 12:22 PM »

Not entirely sure how these NSFW tags work but...

-Stoic Joker (October 07, 2011, 11:54 AM)

Bwahahahaha~!

Stoic Joker: we need a 'Like' button on DC

-f0dder (October 07, 2011, 12:18 PM)

+1

I think people may be getting a little carried away with the NSFW stuff.. let's remember we have a diverse readership.

-mouser (October 07, 2011, 12:12 PM)

It's just such a crazy topic... But... I promise to behave from now on.

6714

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 11:41 AM »

Hahhaahahahha, Renegade - you're so sick! Lovin' it

-f0dder (October 07, 2011, 11:35 AM)

Y'know... Eating lots of peanuts and corn first would be just the best~!

6715

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 11:34 AM »

OK, here's the actual thing! (see attachment in previous post)

-superboyac (October 07, 2011, 10:41 AM)

That's just simply rude. I'd write on in in big red marker:

Do you need to ask? Totally NSFW...

GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU SELF-RIGHTEOUS DOUCHEWAD.

Or perhaps something slightly shorter, like just the first 3 words.

Oh... what would really make it super cool is to...

Yeah... NSFW

Write on the paper:

GO FUCK YOURSELF~!

In shit! Schmear it all in shit! Hahahahah~!

6716

Living Room / Re: work bathroom story

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 08:27 AM »

Hay, if all they want a is nicer movement, give it to them.

Shit in the sink and leave a bow on it.

 

-Stoic Joker (October 06, 2011, 02:31 PM)

Bwahahahaha~! I love it~!

Better after a spicy, greasy meal I suppose.

It reminds me of the old "fecalgram.com" site. (defunct)

6717

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Free Dropbox Lifetime Account Lottery - Ends Oct. 13th

« Last post by Renegade on October 07, 2011, 02:43 AM »

Here is mine:

http://appsumo.com/~_VRo

Will be clicking all of yours now .

Edit: Oh, it only counts if you sign up, sorry.

-Jibz (October 07, 2011, 02:21 AM)

I suppose it's time to use one of those unused domains and make a million email addresses.

6718

Living Room / Re: NAS Recommendations?

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 10:52 PM »

Their cafeteria-style shops seemed a tad odd the first time I went in, but I've bought a truckload of stuff there and certainly saved over the few other stores that I'm familiar with here. (I probably know Georgetown better than I know Melbourne.)

-Renegade (October 06, 2011, 10:22 PM)

Their Mitcham store is better, they have shelves/tables with the equipment, (MB, case, router, etc), stacked on so you can pick and choose, (not the RAM/CPU/SSD/HDD though).

-4wd (October 06, 2011, 10:48 PM)

So you can effectively browse the store?

That would be cool. Sometimes I really want to SEE model A, B, and C before I buy something.

Looks like it's about as far as the Clayton store from me as well... Not too bad.

6719

Living Room / Re: NAS Recommendations?

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 10:35 PM »

Re. UMart' website: yes, it does look like you did it, (  )

-4wd (October 06, 2011, 08:07 PM)

Hehehe~!

I've done some spectacularly beautiful sites in the past, but all the design was done for me. I just had to cut up things in Photoshop and code it all. It's when I start from scratch that things begin to slowly degenerate into a chaotic mess that will make your eyes bleed.

I updated my post with a little UMart info since just before your reply.

Re. UMart' website: yes, it does look like you did it, (  ), but I've ordered things and specified pickup, they'll confirm stock and send an email when it's ready, I replied and said I'd send somebody to pick it up, (my sister who works near them), zero problems.

-4wd (October 06, 2011, 08:07 PM)

-4wd (October 06, 2011, 10:26 PM)

Sounds good. Thanks for letting me know.

6720

Living Room / Re: Steve Jobs is dead.

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 10:25 PM »

I had to post this- Steve Jobs gets one last poke at Bill Gates:
 (see attachment in previous post)

-wraith808 (October 06, 2011, 07:58 PM)

Hahahaha~! That was cute~!

In other news... This is just nutty:

http://www.theregist...jobs_funeral_picket/

Members of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) have announced their intention to protest at the funeral of Steve Jobs, in a Twitter message sent via an iPhone.

The group, best known for their rainbow "God hates fags" signs and web page, are claiming the action is in response to Jobs not using his wealth to promote their interpretation of the Bible and for Apple being consistently voted one of the most gay-friendly employers. The group’s grievances and its original protest plans were posted from iPhones, something the Twittersphere has been quick to point out.

Now THOSE people truly are horrible people.

6721

Living Room / Re: NAS Recommendations?

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 10:22 PM »

As for stores:

MSY, CentreCom, CPL, UMart (order online for pickup), ScorpTec, Landmark Computers (for limited things if I happen to be in the area) and the stores within 100m of MSY (as lotus said).

Online (not the cheapest but I've used and had zero problems): Stone Computers, Maco Technology (very good), PC Case Gear and Warcom.

Attached is a list of stores I keep handy.

DSE I use for nothing but the electronic components I can't get at JayCar.  JB HiFi are good for some things, (just got a WD TV Live from them but only because I had a gift card and couldn't find anything else to buy).

As for StaticIce -- first I've heard of it. I'll have a look...

-Renegade (October 06, 2011, 08:29 AM)

Oh ye of short term memory loss.....why did I bother replying 

Samsung Tablet thread

FYI (doesn't stop me from shopping there still):

I really don't know many stores around either. Everyone I've talked to says MSY is the best by far. (Just reporting -- I really don't know.)

Computer company fined $200,000

-4wd (October 06, 2011, 08:07 PM)

Thanks for that list!

I'd completely forgotten about that StaticIce link you'd posted before. When I'd initially looked at it, and clicked through to some sites, they simply scared me off.

When MSY was recommended to me, I had already seen their site (they have a new and improved one since then, not that it really is much of an improvement though). I told my friend that he had to be joking as MSY's site was simply so horribly, horribly bad. e.g. Product lists in PDFs and not much more. They've since fixed that. He insisted that they're the best place to go, and a few other people confirmed it. Their cafeteria-style shops seemed a tad odd the first time I went in, but I've bought a truckload of stuff there and certainly saved over the few other stores that I'm familiar with here. (I probably know Georgetown better than I know Melbourne.)

I get skittish pretty easily. When I have to click around to find contact info, or have a hard time trying to find basic information, or it's buried in a huge long page that should all fit above the fold... I tend to run.

I didn't know that MSY was fined though. I suppose that explains the mats they have at their checkouts with consumer rights listed. (That seems to be pretty popular in a lot of stores though... Which used to kind of freak me out a bit...)


As for the 4000 unit, I think that was actually designed by another company that Netgear bought... Could be wrong... I thought I read something about that...

6722

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Free Dropbox Lifetime Account Lottery - Ends Oct. 13th

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 12:49 PM »

That's pretty smart! I entered...

So click MY special promo code~! (I think they missed telling you that.)

http://appsumo.com/~o0lo

6723

Living Room / Re: Steve Jobs is dead.

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 12:44 PM »

Point taken.  But that's your opinion.  Saying that you don't have a high opinion of what a person believes, has done, and has left behind is one thing.  To say that someone his a horrible human being because of those things, especially when (1) you don't know what he/she has done behind the scenes, but only second hand accounts, and (2) it's just because they didn't do something when you judge that they could have is my problem with the whole 'horrible human being' bit.  It's a bit beyond the pale, IMO.

-wraith808 (October 06, 2011, 12:26 PM)

I can see that.

Too soon...

But in the absence of any evidence, I just go with Ockham's Razor. Ultimately, we only have 2nd and 3rd and 4th hand accounts of events. For your #2 there, well, dunno. I didn't state the "horrible human being" thing (though I did state something else above). But I don't see him as a "hero". I've stated who I think are real heroes.

Ultimately we don't owe anyone else anything. But that's what separates a lot of us. That's one of the reasons why nobody can help but utter "Mother Theresa" with the utmost reverence and respect. Taking is one thing. Giving is another. Nobody has any respect for taking. Giving on the other hand? A different story. We revere those that do.

Steve? Giving? No evidence. Ockham's razor. Game over for me.

6724

Living Room / Re: NAS Recommendations?

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 12:18 PM »

If the storage was what you needed, do you think that you'd consider it?  I'm just trying to find out other than the price and space considerations, is there a reason that people wouldn't consider these types of drives that I don't know.

-wraith808 (October 06, 2011, 11:37 AM)

My main consideration is price per TB. I want to keep costs down as I have a wife to report to.  

6725

Living Room / Re: Steve Jobs is dead.

« Last post by Renegade on October 06, 2011, 12:11 PM »

Why does that make you a horrible human being?  Different views (that don't affect anyone outside of your not doing the same as they do) makes you a horrible human being?

-wraith808 (October 06, 2011, 11:31 AM)

I probably shouldn't post this...

I think that the line of logic is that when you have far, far, far more than you can possibly use, and you won't help people that really need it, then... you're a douche.

I f**king love Bill Gates if for no other reason than he's... Beyond words. We need more people like Bill Gates. The good he is doing? Wow. He's a real idol. He's the kind of person that I wish I could be. Steve Jobs? Not so much so. Steve was brilliant. But brilliance doesn't always make you admirable in that way.

Along with the 16,000 children that starved to death today, that people like Bill Gates are trying to help out with and people like Steve Jobs are not trying to help with, the world lost, in addition to those 16,000 children under the age of 5 that starved to death... the world lost a corporate titan that exemplified greed in all it's glory. There is no better example of an uber-performing, vicious CEO than SJ. He raised Apple to infinite heights. Hooray. And what was the cost? And what *good* did he do?

I will cry when Bill Gates dies. I will cry when Warren Buffet dies. They are truly great men.

I think the measure of a man/woman is not the heights to which he/she can achieve. The measure is what heights he/she can elevate others.