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5326
General Software Discussion / Re: Is Firefox 3.0 the "Fat Elvis?"
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 06:45 PM »
Lashiec: all the "get rid of IE6" does, afaik, is to remove "%ProgramFiles%\Internet Explorer" - which is nothing but ~300kb worth of shams for the COM components.
5327
General Software Discussion / Re: Is Firefox 3.0 the "Fat Elvis?"
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 09:32 AM »
But if, as you say, any bit of explorer uses a HTML view then surely the DLL is loaded? I forget now if webview is the default, but if it is then I suspect the HTML components will get loaded shortly after the machine boots and the users starts using explorer.
I believe it's the default, yes... but I'm not sure when the html component would be loaded. Presumably not until the user navigates to a folder that actually has html components? :)

Just to say, Opera is modular, so chat and torrent are not "in" the core product. They are linked, but will be flushed out of memory when not in use IIUC. If Opera didn't compress its DLL they would not even hit memory.
It's windows default to discard unused memory pages, whether they're in DLLs or not... I just don't like features like this being included with a web browser, and would rather see them moved out to separate projects, and have the Opera developers focus on their browser instead.

And if you can reproduce a crash, I'd be happy to submit a bug for you with a crashlog. Opera even have a specialised assembler program to catch crashlogs: http://www.opera.com...ort/search/view/432/
It's usually been on pages with java (not javascript) or flash... so you might say "it's not an Opera problem", but I've had far less crashes on the same sites with IE and FF. There's also been some pretty random crashes, but those are hard to reproduce.

I'm not saying that Opera comes off as unstable, but it's just crashed a bit more on me than FF has - which is probably an oddity once or twice as month. But I guess I should test-drive a more recent Opera version to be fair.

I couldn't be bothered to read the article, it sounded too much like linkbait to me...
If you're talking about this article, it's not linkbait and definitely worth a read.
5328
General Software Discussion / Re: Is Firefox 3.0 the "Fat Elvis?"
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 07:26 AM »
Well, it's all component based. If explorer.exe recognizes you're typing an URL, it loads the IE component and lets that handle it. iexplore.exe itself is only a small stub that loads the IE COM objects.

Now, if you have "web view" enabled in explorer, it might very well load the HTML rendering components right away (as soon as you open a file explorer anyway, explorer.exe as a shell might not load that... unless you have active desktop enabled). I always disable webview anyway.

I'll have to admit I haven't done thorough traces or looked super-closely at loaded DLLs etc., but there's a noticeable speed difference on launching IE6 first vs. secondary times, especially on older hardware. (part of that speed difference is from loading the temporary files cache, probably).

As for not being able to really remove IE, that's partially because of the common controls issue - but also because a number of other applications depend on the IE html rendering controls. Some version of norton antivirus used it for it's UI, for instance >_<. Other applications use things like WinINet functions (InternetOpenUrl, InternetReadFile etc.) which are also done from IE components... see the picture? :)

It's wrong saying that "internet explorer is preloaded when windows starts", because (at least from my experience), large parts of it isn't. And the parts that are preloaded is stuff I consider to be part of the core windows, even if it was originally introduced with IE.
5329
General Software Discussion / Re: Vista Aero vs. Linux Compiz
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 06:30 AM »
I agree with Gothic wrt. snappiness and eye-candy. 10ms is a loooong time to wait for a window to minimize/whatever. I like my visual theme simple & elegant - sworn user/lover of 2k/XP classic theme for quite a while. After seeing the screenshot in this post, I ended up patching uxtheme.dll (shame on MS for not allowing 3rd party themes...), then ran off and installed ClearLooks. The widgets are approximately the same size as windows classic (ie., not much wasted screen space), and the look is pleasant.

Now, as for eye-candy, there's a (very) few Vista/Aero things I miss in XP. NT has been hardware-accelerated for quite a while, but not with double-buffered graphics. This means that if you move a window rapidly, you will see tearing/shearing - Vista/Aero does away with this. Also, the realtime updated taskbar-processes mouse-over and alt-tab views of what's going on in other apps is very nice. This can be faked on XP, but it does so clumsily and error-prone by taking screenshots.

Aero does require a bit too much juice on older computers though, I dunno if it's because of bad design or just some current driver issues etc. Also, the lack of customization possible when aero turned on is absolutely horrible, wtf. can't I change the "selected item bar" color, for instance? The aero default is about impossible to see on a laptop screen as soon as there's the smallest amount of sunlight.
5330
General Software Discussion / Re: Is Firefox 3.0 the "Fat Elvis?"
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 06:17 AM »
even though IE is essentially preloaded into memory at Windows startup.
Ugh, would you please stop spreading that piece of false information? It really isn't. If you (on old enough hardware :)) time first- and secondary launch times of IE, you'll see a speed difference. People are all confused over this issue because things like the common controls were introduced with IE, but quickly became a set of core windows controls, used by many other apps...

Anyway, it makes sense to incorporate some plugin behavior as core program facilities - especially the ones that really are crucial for a good surfing experience, or those that are heavy and would benefit from being implemented in C++ instead of javascript (although the speedup for the JS engine in ff3 should help wrt. that?)

Imho FireFox starts pretty slowly, especially once you start adding those invaluable plugins. IE6 is king here, not even Opera starts faster than that. MS basically ruined that advantage with IE7 though, which starts about as slowly as a FF2 with plugins, and is very slow at opening new tabs.

I'd love Opera if it didn't crash on me all the time, didn't include silly things like chat and torrent in the core product, and had plugin/extension support. But as it is now, it's just not enjoyable for me to use.
5331
General Software Discussion / Re: My favorite software! What's yours?
« Last post by f0dder on April 15, 2008, 06:07 AM »
iphigenie: it was meant jokingly, in frustration. I really would wish that we'd have only one language to bother about, though, and English wouldn't be the worst choice for that. It's sane computing wise, and while there's a lot of exceptions and quirks, it's a very rich language with a very rich vocabulary (exhume always comes to mind - a verb for "dig up dead people", how crazy is that :)).
5332
General Software Discussion / Re: Vista Aero vs. Linux Compiz
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 06:30 PM »
Intel has already released very comprehensive full 2D/3D documentation for their embedded graphics
Intel + 3D graphics + embedded chips = Not computable :P. And they had sound cards as well? :huh:
To be fair, not all of the integrated intel graphics are bad - won't do high-end gaming, but that's not the idea of integrated graphics after all. Also, I think a big part of the problem with integrated intel graphics the last few years is driver-induced, not because of bad hardware...

As for sound, I don't think they've actuall done sound cards (or integrated sound) - I thought they did, but it seems that intel's part is "just" the HD audio bus, while <whatever> other stuff is handled by 3rd party vendors, like realtek and analog devices.
5333
General Software Discussion / Re: Is Firefox 3.0 the "Fat Elvis?"
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 04:29 PM »
Carol, iirc there's some article that mentions they not only switched to jemalloc, but also managed to shave off a substantial number of allocations during startup (I think it was in the ~50k range? Don't have an URL handy, it might very well be the one Edvard linked). Hopefully that'll do something for startup speed...
5334
General Software Discussion / Re: Vista Aero vs. Linux Compiz
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 01:00 PM »
Blame hardware manufacturers with Microsoft's fingerprints on their bankroll that won't allow them to release a decent API for open source driver developers.
Please, don't blame Microsoft for this. Blame Linus for refusing to do a stable kernel ABI, and the GPL mentality of refusing closed-source stuff. And blame intellectual property, as well as the fear of being ripped off when you've paid millions of dollars for research and development.

Amazingly enough, though, AMD/ATI is opening up their graphics hardware documentation, Intel has already released very comprehensive full 2D/3D documentation for their embedded graphics, and it's rumored that Nvidia might be following suit.
5335
General Software Discussion / Re: My favorite software! What's yours?
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 12:22 PM »
UNICODE is a big can of worms.

One big issue is that we old-school programmers are used to dealing with 'characters'. One character = one item displayed on screen. Unicode changes things around a lot, with terms such as "code points", "glyphs", ... and even when you use UTF-16 encoding (windows' unicode format), one 16-bit isn't necessarily enough to display one glyph on the screen.

To make matters worse, things like comparing strings for equality becomes very hard - should the german ß be treated equally to "ss"? Some glyphs may look equal on screen, but be different characters. A glyph can be constructed by multiple code points in different order (this can be fixed via canonization though). And what about upper/lower casing? Not every language supported by unicode has a concept of this.

Too bad the entire world wasn't colonized by England, and all previous history/culture/LANGUAGE burnt :p
5336
Living Room / Re: Offline Computing :The End
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 09:57 AM »
If you're on dialup (and thus not behind a wonderful NAT'ing router), you'll want to supplement your antivirus software with a firewall. XP SP2 built-in firewall is quite adequate, as long as you don't turn it off :)

But yeah, not offering manual download for antivirus updates is a thing that started several years ago.
5337
General Software Discussion / Re: Vista Aero vs. Linux Compiz
« Last post by f0dder on April 14, 2008, 07:12 AM »
Compiz is unstable anyway (OK, so it's a few months since I played with it), and once you've played with it for some days, you generally end up turning off the eyecandy because it's too distracting anyway.

Oh, and OpenOffice is unstable too, at least on Windows :) (unless it's because of ClipX, clipboard extenders can cause weird problems... then again, I had those problems before using ClipX).

Anyway I thought one of the big criticisms of Vista was eye candy - why is Linux even tryi9ng to compete in the shallow eye candy stakes?
Because they're all a bunch of hypocrites, and because it's funnier writing graphical effects than documentation and bugfixing.
5338
I guess Vista is OK by now, have been maintaining some laptops that came with it preinstalled... but I certainly prefer XP and will stick with it for as long as it's feasible.

Wrt. no XP drivers for your laptop, you should be able to find (a lot of) them if you track down the individual components and go to the manufacturer's sites... but it can be a damn lot of work.
5339
Living Room / Re: USB Flash Drives: What to look for or avoid.
« Last post by f0dder on April 13, 2008, 05:49 AM »
Hm, didn't know about that - it's been a while since I bought my 2gig drive, and that one is definitely fast. Perhaps the reason for SLC->MLC switch is price related?
5340
General Software Discussion / Re: Download Demons...
« Last post by f0dder on April 12, 2008, 11:53 AM »
I stick with flashget (the "lite" version), like app. Does what I need it to do, has a decent UI, and doesn't get in the way. Only thing that annoys me is it's slow "malloc disk space" - the idea is good, but their implementation is horrible. But I intend to RE and fix it 8)
5341
Living Room / Re: Offline Computing :The End
« Last post by f0dder on April 12, 2008, 11:49 AM »
I have came to know Adobe made Photoshop express web interface that allows photographers to manipulate photos online.
Nah, we won't see this for quite some years to come... the online version isn't really photoshop, imho, all it has is a bundle of their filters. Something as heavy-duty use as photoshop (full featured) is impossible to move to a web-app for the foreseeable future.
5342
Living Room / Re: Most useless
« Last post by f0dder on April 11, 2008, 08:41 PM »
Maybe she thought you are Cinderella ;) ... all you need now is Prince Charming (don't we all)
-Carol Haynes (April 11, 2008, 08:32 PM)
I don't :P
5343
But it's still important to know what an interrupt or a pointer is, and to know enough about memory management, even if your programming language takes care of all that for you.
-Gothi[c]
Most programmers don't need to know about interrupts or much other machine architecture, really - it's pretty irrelevant if you're doing web apps or database clients, etc. Heck, even in native C++ you can go a long way without needing to use (or at least know much about) pointers.

But it all depends on what you want to do as a programmer. I personally see a lot of value in learning about machine architecture, but I don't necessarily think it's the best place to start. Personally, I think getting the big perspective, focusing on logic etc., is a better place to start, so you don't get lost in the nitty gritty details...

Perhaps in the end it doesn't matter what you start with, and experience is the only thing that counts.
-Gothi[c]
I agree more or less with you here - and I'd like to add curiosity to the mix. Stay curious and willing to learn, that's what counts. I do believe that it's not entirely irrelevant how you start your programming adventure; BASIC can have permanent damaging effects to innocent souls ;)
5344
Well, 16-bit programs don't work on x64 at all - it would require full CPU emulation to do so. For DOS games, google for 'dosbox'.

Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble!
5345
Living Room / Re: Do you collect anything?
« Last post by f0dder on April 11, 2008, 08:38 AM »
Problem is that those OS X ISOs are pirated, and there's no official non-cracked way to get OS X running on vanilla x86 hardware. And that kinda sucks, I wouldn't mind giving it a try, but I'm sure as hell not paying for a macbook just for the fun of it.

A Mac Mini is probably the cheapest way to get (legit) OS X, but that would cost me USD~900. And christ, $160 if I want a mouse+keyboard to go with that...
5346
General Software Discussion / Re: My favorite software! What's yours?
« Last post by f0dder on April 11, 2008, 08:33 AM »
Sounds like those programs haven't been Unicode then, Curt. It's funny to see programs that are mostly Unicode, but fail on things like capitalizing non-ASCII characters (like æøå).
5347
Developer's Corner / Re: Scientific Proof The Python Rulz
« Last post by f0dder on April 11, 2008, 06:47 AM »
What a wonderful strip - makes me feel like pulling out my good old C&H albums and spending some hours with those old friends :)
5348
I think ASM is absolutely the wrong place to start. And if you're going to be doing web-programming or clientside database front-ends, you don't really have to bother with it, either.

Now, if you want to write efficient programs and be a fully-fledged programmer, machine architecture and knowledge of assembly is still important, and will continue to be so for quite a while. But starting with assembly isn't necessarily good for your mental health :)
5349
My take is that the actual cached files get wiped, but that FireFox keeps it's list/database of the cache-contents somewhere else. So firefox thinks it has all the graphics and stylesheets cached, but doesn't, and doesn't re-load from the web when local cache-retrieval fails.

It's a guesstimate, but I think it would explain the behavior :)
5350
Renegade: the exploits in firefox are typically somewhat less severe than those in IE, though... and since IE still has a lot higher market penetration, it's obviously more interesting for the hax0rs to exploit IE. Net effect: firefox is a safer browser.
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