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5026
Living Room / Re: Home server upgrade meanderings
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 12:29 PM »
I've got two 3.0 Xeons in my (6yr old) home server ... 'cause I'm nutz basically.  :D

Two Xeons? Two?  :huh:

Muy macho! I like!!!  :D

(BTW: Xeons in a home server?  :tellme: You are crazy. But you're my kind of crazy,,,) ;D :Thmbsup:
5027
Living Room / Re: Home server upgrade meanderings
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 11:36 AM »
For vanilla file & print servers, web servers, and media streaming, I'd definitely lean towards the savings an AMD chip can provide.

For VMs or heavy-duty database and computation intensive applications (or encryption) I tend to prefer Intel chips. I also prefer using Intel products for Windows Servers since Microsoft and Intel work hand in glove when it comes to that. Not that AMD doesn't work well for Windows. I've deployed several Windows servers equipped with AMD CPUs. It's just with Intel there's one less opportunity for surprises when it comes to the BIOS and chipsets.

YMMV. 8)
5028
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 11:06 AM »
I once joked I'd like to use one of those Dysan bladeless fans for it.
Interesting idea - Dyson makes some pretty awesome stuff. The first time I saw one of those bladeless blowers, it was almost indistinguishable from magic :-)


My only question is how much (if any) electrical interference is caused by it. I'm guessing not much since he's got UI approval (in the USA) and those [people look very carefully at electrical and RF interference measurements before they ok a product for consumer home use.

And to your point about magic, it is pretty magical when you see one in operation. :-* I'm impressed every time. Very clever insight he had about it being the fan motor, and especially the blades that are responsible for almost all the sound emanating from a fan. Something military submarine designers figured out years ago when they addressed the similar problems of engine noise and propeller "cavitation."

 8)
5029
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 10:56 AM »
check YouTube for stuff like "my home server room", and pay attention to the noise in those videos.

+1! There's one where some guy has this absolutely beautiful setup in what looks like his garage. According to the vid this is just the first stage of his planned installation. (He's a small private ISP.) You'd think you were sitting on an airport runway with the amount of wind noise in there.
 :tellme:
5030
Living Room / Re: DOTCOM saga - updates
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 10:03 AM »
@IainB: police and political truth? Such a wonderful pair of euphemisms for "wishful thinking" and "falsehood."  ;D :Thmbsup:
5031
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 07:51 AM »
So then the question is, if a tower is holding 10-15 drives, why would that be any less heat or noise than the aforementioned rack server?

It can be as loud. But it doesn't have to be. You're not cramming as much into as small a space - and you can take noise into consideration. Something the rack case designers definitely do not. ;D

The other problem with rackmount is the form factor. Out of the rack, they're the size of a mutant pizza box -as this snapshot of a 1U server from one of "Levi the Computer Guy's" videos shows:

case.gif

They look pretty svelte in the rack. But out of it they're something like 17"x28." And once loaded, they're unwieldy and drop prone if you're not expecting the weight or really weird balance. I'm no wimp when it comes to lifting things. But the first time I pulled a 3U ProLiant server completely out of it's rack, I almost lost it. And that puppy only had 6 drives in it.

One thing that complicates your design spec is needing to have removable drive caddies because you anticipate so much swapping in and out. If you get away from that slightly, the Lian Li "A" series has been a popular go-to choice for multi-drive server configurations. These cases are specifically designed for this purpose so they've engineered for adequate cooling and airflow. The Lian Li PC-A70F and similar are good choices. That could give you 3 externally accessible slots for tray mounted drive bays along with seven internal bays for the more permanent drives.

Lian Li makes a nice case. But they're expensive.

Something you might want to consider since you're an engineer...maybe design your own and have a sheet metal shop fab it for you?
If you're not doing a data center, why bother cramming stuff into the smallest case possible? You're only going to have one of these, right? (Right? ;D)

I always though a case with staggered and spaced drives with large slow fans on top and bottom would provide vastly better cooling and less noise than traditional drive array cases. Possibly even metal grill (less heat build-up) if it didn't dissipate the airflow too much before it passed over all the drives...

Something like this very rough sketch:

rack2.png

I once joked I'd like to use one of those Dysan bladeless fans for it.

Hmm...not too much a joke now that I'm thinking about it.

 :)
5032
Mouser's Zone / Re: IP Address
« Last post by 40hz on September 30, 2012, 06:48 AM »
If you're going to do this, go for a VPN, and accept that you'll probably have to pay for the service.

+1. For anything other that the most casual and innocent use, paid VPN service is the way to go.

Luck! :Thmbsup:
5033
Living Room / Re: Write Python Book - Distribute Over Bittorent - Banned from Google
« Last post by 40hz on September 29, 2012, 08:01 AM »
Yeah, me by myself is pretty meaningless. I know. Doesn't mean that I shouldn't do what I can.

Agree. Being afraid or disgusted is no excuse for abandoning one's principles. At least not from my perspective. (Other people's mileage may vary. No blame.)

However, if I'm ever going to be put up against a wall, I insist on having the satisfaction of knowing it was something I myself did that put me there.

I have no problem with dying for something. But I would find it personally offensive to be slaughtered. And one way to avoid that is by not allowing yourself to be viewed as sheep.
5034
Living Room / Re: Write Python Book - Distribute Over Bittorent - Banned from Google
« Last post by 40hz on September 29, 2012, 07:11 AM »
Apparently the motto "Do No Evil" doesn't prevent you from doing actual harm on a fairly regular basis.

What is truly annoying about Google is the fact they hide behind their technology. It's rare somebody ever gets an actual person to talk to or otherwise communicate with. Stonewalling is Google's "response" to almost everything negative.

I find it interesting how a company with such a lofty philosophy (or marketing strategy) is so comfortable absolving itself of any responsibility for its behavior or actions. Almost as if they're saying they have no real control over the thing they've built - and asking us to accept that as a given...

It's bad precedent if the world  allows them to get away with it.

5035
Living Room / Re: Government spies on Twitter
« Last post by 40hz on September 29, 2012, 06:30 AM »
Is anyone surprised?
5036
Living Room / Re: Recommend some music videos to me!
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 06:05 PM »
Not actually a video. But a really unusual and interesting take on Cat Steven's song Morning has Broken. This one has been growing on me with repeated listening.



 :Thmbsup:
5037
Living Room / Re: Home server upgrade meanderings
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 05:33 PM »
^ Understood. But my "home" network is also part of my business so I can't afford to let it be down. Even temporarily.

But I am looking forward to the day when I'm not in this business and don't need my own personal datacenter any more. ;D
5038
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 05:18 PM »
I try not to scream ... But I die inside, just a little, each time it happens.

Oh, I do too! But then I take comfort in the sure knowledge that they will learn a valuable lesson and gain a great deal of understanding about why it's not good to disregard proven advice and best practices when running an internal data center. A lesson that gets further reinforced when they receive the bill for the services required to get them back up and finally running correctly.

It used to bother me a lot. But not quite so much any more. I'm learning (albeit slowly) to not waste excessive sympathy on people who can't be bothered to learn about things critical to their businesses. Or run them in a responsible manner.

Personal computer users and small Mom & Pop operations I can feel bad for. (And I almost always cut them some slack and give them a huge break when it comes to billing. At least the first few times it happens.) But I have zero sympathy for bigger SMBs that are making money and should know better. Especially when their top management is ten years younger than I am, and should therefor be somewhat knowledgeable about this technology. (I've often seen far more managerial attention paid to leasing a photocopier, or buying a turnkey phone system, than was ever given to setting up a mission critical internal data network.)

If I feel bad for anybody, it's the rank & file employees whose jobs might be on the line as the result of a company's system crashing too hard. And I have seen a business tank shortly after its "summer intern-built server" (kept in an overheated storage closet) went mobo up - taking their general ledger and AR system with it.

When it comes to IT, management gets what it asks for. Good thing for them they don't (too often) also get what they deserve. :-\
5039
Living Room / Re: Home server upgrade meanderings
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 03:53 PM »
^The only problem with one big VM host is it's still putting all your eggs in one basket. Now if I could get two (or three) VM host boxes which could then be set up for resource optimization and failover...but then the price for the management console would be prohibitive...so I guess that's out... :mrgreen:
5040
Living Room / Re: DRONE - web video series
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 03:01 PM »
@Ren - Very cool find. Be interesting to see where they take the story. Thx for sharing it. :Thmbsup:

We should put up a "recommend a good web series/made for web movie" thread one of these days. 8)

5041
General Software Discussion / Re: Antivirus-less setup
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 01:59 PM »
Any tech papers on how it works?

Microsoft has a full KB on on it here. Blog post over at TechNet here. Good basic intro courtesy of Dedoimedo blog here
5042
Living Room / Re: Home server upgrade meanderings
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 01:50 PM »
I'd take a look at products manufactured by Icy Dock for your drive docks. I've had good luck with them in the past. (There's review vids up on YouTube if you do a search.) I plan on using them for my next build too. I'll probably go with 2.5" form factor SATA drives to reduce power consumption and (ideally) heat. Or if not, with two of these docks - assuming I decide I want to keep it all in one box. (My current inclination, however, is to house the drives in their own enclosure and use some sort of smaller case for the actual server. Ideally with one very "large but slow" fan for cooling.

Another alternative may be to just buy something since some of these newer "homes servers" can't be beat when it comes to bang-for-the-buck hardware specs. If I do that, I think I'll probably order two of them and divvy the tasks between (i.e. fileserver on one and everything else on the other). If I see some again at the <$300-$400 price point, it's a possible option. Put the savings into building a scorching i7 workstation and use that as a super VM platform and daily go-to machine..

It's getting tricky for me lately because of all the choices. There are two schools of thought I'm flopping back and forth between. They come from the world of robotics. Once school says build one comprehensive thing and be done with it. The other says to think "small, cheap, and out of control." So with that I'd be looking at doing a small collection of purpose-built boxes with different architectures ranging from a Raspberry Pi to a "real" server. Definitely more flexible. And it would spread the expense out over time even if it might not save me anything - or ultimately end up costing more.

Then there's the question you brought up about total and idling power consumption. Something that's going to become more important as time goes on. (Hmmm...wonder if some clever sort of supplemental solar power hack might be possible?)

Ah! decisions...decisions...decisions... 8)
5043
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 12:50 PM »
^I too have reluctantly skipped ECC where cost was an issue for a "nickel & diming" client on a non-commerce webserver or similar "crap app" (kidding...just kidding!) and where a simple reboot cures most ills with no side-effect.

Today I usually just spec "server memory," not mention ECC, and get on with it. And if it ever does become an issue, I'll spec for non-ECC, tack on an extra half hour of time - and get the bloody ECC anyway. It's not that much more expensive. ($75 for a quality 8Gb module/$170 for 24Gb 3x8 kit vs $49 for a good quality 8Gb non-ECC desktop DDR3 module?) C'mon people, this is for a freekin' server - lets get real shall we?
 ;D
5044
General Software Discussion / Re: Antivirus-less setup
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 12:25 PM »
Draco says it's DEP or die period on our office network

Agree. It's going on. Period. End of discussion. 8)
5045
N.A.N.Y. 2013 / Re: Carbon - my new hackable performant (semi) static blogging system.
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 11:33 AM »
Well done!  :Thmbsup:
5046
General Software Discussion / Re: Antivirus-less setup
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 11:09 AM »
^@f - Downloaded and installed. Thx for the heads-up on that. I remember seeing that awhile back in the partner news - and ignoring it. :-[
5047
General Software Discussion / Re: Antivirus-less setup
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 10:29 AM »
I take reasonable precautions. Under Windows I either run MSE or the free version of Avira, watch where I visit, block scripts, keep everything obsessively updated, and disable known vulnerability risks (java, flash) unless I actually need them for something.

I never had a problem, except once about two years ago when something walked through all the security I had on my system like it wasn't there. I "felt" the machine suddenly get weird and next saw all the drives suddenly start polling. (It's never a good sign when an optical drive suddenly spins up looking for a disk for no good reason.) The HD drive lights started strobing, CPU and RAM usage went to 100%, and taskman showed child processes sprouting all over the place. I hit the killswitch on the network connection and did a hard powerdown before it got too far. But not in time to prevent it from roaching the machine so badly it required a full system restore to get it to reboot afterwards.

Never found out what hit me, although I had a client who got nailed by something very similar the same day..

war_worlds_spielberg_43_x.jpg

So to reinforce Stoic's earlier point about the first 50,000 who get hit by something new, it doesn't ultimately matter if you're one of them. But with hundreds of millions pf PCs in  the world, odds of you being in the first group to get hit are extremely slim. At which point the OS and AV people are on it and you're protected as long as you update regularly.

A good AV scanner's performance hit is negligible and the risks it protects you from are real.

Use one. 8)

5048
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 09:59 AM »
considering whether to go for ECC memory... but that does mean also going for a server motherboard and Xeon CPU, and that does end up in a somewhat other price class than a commodity i3 or i5.


Been awhile since I last looked, but Intel always used to have at least one non-Xeon server mobo that could use ECC. An i3 with ECC would be awesome for a home server.

Ok checking....and yup! They have one: IntelĀ® Intel Server Board BBS1200KPR (not to be confused with similar earlier version #DBS1200KPR which doesn't support current Xeon versions)

Has an LGA1155 socket (supports Core i3 and Xeon E3-1200 series) and 2 DIMM slots (max 16Gb) for DDR3/SDRAM - either ECC or non-ECC, unbuffered. Integrated graphics. One expansion slot (ok...so this one won't work for Superboy's specification.) Sells for around $150 USD too...

Full tech specs (PDF-66 pages!) download here.

Nice board. Oooo look! It even comes in 10-packs just in case you're a real sport! ;D
5049
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 28, 2012, 09:13 AM »
Go for a tower server with an external array.

Agree completely.

Also, housing the disk array in a separate enclosure will go a long way to distributing heat and keeping as much of it as possible away from your $$$ Xeons. (Looks sexier too IMHO. Racks look like meh. Two nice towers with all those blinkin' lights look ever so much cooler. (Run cooler too!)

Additional note: if your board supports it (and virtually all "server" mobos do) I would spend the extra to get ECC RAM. Especially if I was going to be provisioning for virtual machines, software RAID, or drive pooling. One less opportunity for unexpected surprises cropping up with ECC.

Many memory suppliers discourage people from using ECC since it will reduce performance marginally (1-2%) compared to non-ECC memory modules. But they're primarily addressing the desktop/workstation environment where (with current RAM products) it's not considered needed or desirable.

Servers, however, are a "whole 'nuther smoke." They're not just a tower PC loaded with drives and maxed out with RAM. With real servers, bullet-proof reliability, redundancy, and low-latency data bus engineering are more important than wringing the last fly speck of performance out of each of your individual components. You have to see them as 'one thing' rather than a collection of components. And they really are designed to be "set & forget" devices. You power them up - and "that's that" if you did it right.

I've had servers run continuously for years on end. The only time they are were ever powered down was to add or replace a drive if they didn't support hot-swapping. Or (if they were Windows servers) to perform a required reboot following a software upgrade. I've routinely had BSD/Linux servers go for well over three years without requiring a single reboot. I have one that's been rebooted only twice in seven years and is still going strong.

FWIW there's some disagreement in the "pro" community about whether or not ECC is "worth it" any more. It's split about 60-40 against last I paid attention to it. And it seems to be largely an age dependent thing. The young 'uns say we older guys aren't up enough on advances in memory engineering. We codgers (i.e. anyone over 40) say these youngsters are far too trusting when it comes to reliability claims; and haven't been around long enough to see all the weirdness that goes down in a server environment to know.

The real truth probably falls somewhere in the middle.

So...I'm still inclined to spec ECC for a server. But I'm an "old guy." So maybe some other people might want to put their tuppence in in this one?

About ECC
ECC.jpg

8)
5050
Living Room / Re: Barebone server: what else do I need to complete it?
« Last post by 40hz on September 27, 2012, 05:17 PM »
Would one Supermicro box really be all that loud and hot?

Yup.

Any rack mount server is going to be noisy since they "turbo" the airflow. Small hi-volume fans going through a relatively small air passage. Whooosh! They're designed to accommodate server room density requirements - not ergonomics or aesthetics. And the heatsink fans on the CPUs are geared for performance and cooling - and "who cares!" about the noise levels.

Besides, anything with a bunch of disk drives in a relatively small case along with a couple of serious CPUs is going to be a very efficient space heater. The cases are designed to be heat radiators to cool the innards. Think of a rack mount server case as a giant heat sink for the system.
 8)

Thanks 40, I was hoping to get your input. 

You're welcome. But let's get Stoic Joker, JavaJones, Wraith808,  SteelAdept, skwire, 4wd, Edvard, f0dder, and some of the other people who are involved with servers (sorry to the other DoCo members whose names I can't recall off the top of my head - you guys know who you are! :mrgreen:) in on this too. ;D
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