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501
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 23, 2020, 05:14 AM »
Wishes unlikely to come true
I wish markdown by default rendered indentation as indentation! For code blocks there is already the three fence ``` prefix/suffix.

I even wish that minus - and plus + at line start (with/without indentation) defaulted to not be interpreted as bullet point list formatting. They should function as list formatting characters only when preceded by a line prefixed with some other character that would start a list. For example a dot . character.
-Nod5 (June 23, 2020, 03:25 AM)
You could make them true yourself. Fork an appropriate FOSS project by inserting your preferred changes to syntax and then describe it as GFM, or whatever the original is, with Nod extensions.
When you have enough followers,  you can overwhelm the Canutes involved in agreeing standards.
502
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 07:57 PM »
I've been very hesitant to commit to zettel because i first want to know the tools I'm going to use.  I think this will work for now.
-superboyac (June 22, 2020, 07:01 PM)
Before committing too hard to zettel, it's worth thinking about Andy Matuschak's evergreen notes.
I'm not following either really. I think they have a strong appeal to those who are attracted to a rigid system. I do subscribe to atomicity, though I think there are a variety of ways to achieve it, and I do believe it is important both to think and to record the results of the thinking. And I use a whole variety of links. The problem with thinking is that it takes the time it takes, and insights, leaps and eurekas are only possible when your mind is open rather than on a trail or on a schedule.
503
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 07:43 PM »
Which format is good for what?  [[]] is for internal zettel links, right?  I see []() used more broadly in other applications.  In the zettel context, they should be interchangeable.  Or obsidian should have a feature to deal with the two types.
-superboyac (June 22, 2020, 07:00 PM)
Remember Obsidian isn't a zettelkasten program  - it's just capable of being used as one. [[]] is a wiki link, []() is the conventional markdown syntax. Obsidian prefers the former because it's simpler, but can understand the latter.

This whole class of software is rooted in wikis.
Wiki to outliner (Workflowy), pure wiki type outliner to hybrid with multiple outlines (Dynalist), to Roam with bidirectional links and idiosyncratic selections of markdown syntax in its database/documents (some if its syntax taken directly from Dynalist), to Obsidian which uses actual markdown files. The most commonly referred to traditional alternative to the last two is Tiddlywiki and its offshoots.

I haven't used zettlr, but I think it's designed purely zettelkasten and doesn't have the whole setup around bidirectional links?
504
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 05:36 PM »
If I was doing that I might be tempted to take the path of least resistance. It's not essential for what I do - I don't really use the links outside Obsidian.
505
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 02:55 PM »
the reason that I'm thinking of going back to the []() notation for links) is the [[]] notatation.
-wraith808 (June 22, 2020, 08:06 AM)
Apparently there's an export plugin being developed to convert all [[ ]] to [ ]( )
506
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 09:37 AM »
The biggest problem for me with finding something on Android (and the reason that I'm thinking of going back to the []() notation for links) is the [[]] notatation.
-wraith808 (June 22, 2020, 08:06 AM)
True.
It doesn't bother me because I don't actively use it on Android and it works in Obsidian whether it did in the originator or not. But Obsidian works with []() anyway, so it's safe to stick to that. I'm convinced [[]] will spread, but it is a coming standard and not an arrived one.
I stick with it because I find it quicker and easier to use.
And I've had enough work excavating consistency on Android without adding another filter.
507
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 07:00 AM »
Finding programs on Android isn't straightforward. First I would prefer them to concur with Obsidian. But then I need them to work with Typing Hero which has kicked out a few of my preferred apps.
508
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 22, 2020, 06:57 AM »
which markdown flavor is recommended for the best compatibility and long term usage?
-superboyac (June 21, 2020, 06:30 PM)
As wraith808 says, the more basic the syntax the more likely all programs are to interpret it correctly.

But you have to think of what you want from it. You may not have basic wants. In which case you are working with probabilities and looking into future. Easiest to work with the flavours favoured by your favourite program.  ;D

afaics the GFM variant of CommonMark is the most frequently claimed, but those who claim it don't all have the same implementation and they all have extensions  - which you don't have to use.
509
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 20, 2020, 08:35 AM »
What note system features do we need to best handle that?
-Nod5 (June 20, 2020, 07:52 AM)
You need a flow control on the way in, matched to the pipe out, and an overflow to deal with issues. Critical that the inbox size is limited.
510
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 19, 2020, 02:54 PM »
that's a lot of steps just to deal with zettlr.  I'd rather just create a note, and all that is automatically accomplished, except for one part where i would manually enter a title. 
-superboyac (June 19, 2020, 12:59 PM)
Any document or editor. System wide shortcut to put in dateandtime for ID, and you could probably use Wraith808's suggestion as part of that shortcut so all you have to do is type your title. And then you can use the document in any system you want.
511
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 19, 2020, 02:48 PM »
It wants to modify all your links in order to "beautify" them...in other words, make it work well with its software.
-superboyac (June 19, 2020, 01:58 PM)
Not sure what you mean by that. Is it part of the import process?
I've never had Obsidian try to change anything.
You can simply have your files in a folder and open the folder in Obsidian; I wouldn't expect it to change anything,  though I've not tested it.
512
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 19, 2020, 02:41 PM »
A lot of them are geared towards programmers vs writers (like me).
-superboyac (June 19, 2020, 01:36 PM)
I think that's true up to a point, and many of the early users are programmers. But I think they all work well for writing. They facilitate planning,  world-building, referencing, storyboarding etc. For this,  I  find the Obsidian editor quite sufficient.
It's OK for the actual writing too, but using simple documents means you can use any editors you want.

For me,  Roam couldn't be as good for this because it would be less easy to use your preferred editor.
513
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 19, 2020, 02:27 PM »
The problem with that is the internal linking.  It's almost like this can all be solved with yet a 3rd tool loll..
the third tool will be a database tools with the sole function of keeping track of the links and ID/titles in the zettel files.
-superboyac (June 19, 2020, 01:36 PM)
From my perspective, Obsidian does this well. Not a database as such, but fast enough for all the processes. Obviously if you get hundreds of thousands of files, a database may be the best answer.
Doesn’t have block/bullet links,  but does have links to headings,  documents, files etc. More specific solutions are possible,  if you really need them but its not straightforward.
514
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 05:54 PM »
I agree with you I would like that ID hidden.  I don't know a way around it. 
-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 05:25 PM)
Edit the markdown file so that the ID is commented out or put into front matter. Though that doesn't help if you review the files in edit mode.

Maybe zettlr will ignore anything hidden,  but I doubt it.
515
General Software Discussion / Re: any software can do a batch S&R "multi strings" in "multi files" at a time?
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 04:25 PM »
My issue is that time is money. And since I wouldn't know what I was doing, less intuitive solutions could be more costly even if they are much cheaper.
And time is even more of an issue since I have to restrict my time using a PC.

Shifting to a file/document based system from databases,  means I need confidence that I can quickly do everything I need  - and I have a lot of text files. And being able to read all the document formats is important.
516
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 04:12 PM »
What do you mean the ID is hidden?
-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 03:40 PM)
I don't mean it is hidden; I don't know zettlr.
What I mean is that it can be entered in a markdown note in such a way that it isn't rendered. It can be hidden as a comment,  or in YAML front matter etc.
This gives you all the advantages of using the ID without ever having to see it unless you are in the markdown edit mode.

afaics,  this solution doesn't seem to be commonly applied. But to my mind it solves most of the problems.
I dislike having the ID in the title. It is too distracting unless the title is always hidden, but that can't be the case if you work directly with the files.
517
General Software Discussion / Re: any software can do a batch S&R "multi strings" in "multi files" at a time?
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 01:45 PM »
PowerGREP is the king of this.  However, it demands a King's ransom.  That said, the $159 is cheap if you need that power.  Add that to regexbuddy and your search for things is pretty powerful.
-wraith808 (June 18, 2020, 10:30 AM)
I keep telling myself that PowerGREP would be total overkill for anything I might want to do. It's blatantly obvious,  I shouldn't have to tell myself even once.
But,
It also strikes me that having it would mean I'd never have to think about the best way of doing a lot of things. And not having to think can be quite valuable.
518
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 01:28 PM »
on a really specific/technical level, the key thing for me is that ID/title issue in zettlr.  Whatever the clever solution to that is, that's going to take things to the next level.
-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 10:53 AM)
For me,  the solution is the ID being hidden. That means it's in the edit view but not the preview (or the WYSIWYG). All programs should be able to deal with that.
519
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 18, 2020, 12:57 PM »
But using Obsidian just to keep track of the thoughts and as a reference to my writing in another process seems to be working better.
-wraith808 (June 18, 2020, 10:26 AM)
I've not fully developed my process  - Obsidian's developing too fast to fix myself  - but I expect to do something like this. Some will have to involve Android,  so I look forward to their Android app. But the rest of the writing will work well in WriteMonkey. Effectively files shared between it and Obsidian (and whatever I use on Android). And gives my documents an extra backup in the WriteMonkey database.

It feels as if that gives me the full MSS, with as many sections as I want, in a single piece as well as multiple links to other stuff, notes etc.

Might also use Typora or Vivaldi for my Windows WYSIWYG in notes using a lot of markup. WriteMonkey's preview is through export.
520
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 17, 2020, 05:10 PM »
Step 1 is going to the inbox
Step 2 is thinking about where it should be once it's in the inbox

I can't get from step 1 to step 2 in most cases.  If I just do it without thinking about it, I get little idiosyncracies in how they're categorized.  So my notes never get from the inbox to the archive referenced.
-wraith808 (June 17, 2020, 03:02 PM)
If we forget the formal zettelkasten method which is predicated on the notes eventually being published, then my current system makes it very easy to do in one pass. Using tags rather than folders or equivalent.
  • If it's something not ever worth seeing again,  it goes to the Attics (possibly I'll note why it's worthless).
  • If it's not worth spending more time on,  it goes to the Archive, usually with a few more tags.
  • If I make a note,  it goes to the Library. Note into the Scriptorium; I'll add links if I can think of them, but don't get hung upon it.
I don't spend time going through them trying to find ways of extending the notes. I only go through them when there's another purpose in mind. But if I have a new thought I add a new note - and the link will be obvious.
521
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 16, 2020, 08:32 PM »
Reference database, I don't think I need this.
-superboyac (June 16, 2020, 07:34 PM)

Nice to have you back  :)
What you say makes sense,  and it's all about what makes sense for you,  but I'd query this.
The reference database isn't a set of unlinked reference sources - the notes in the zettelkasten should take you to, or include directly, the precise part of the reference material that is relevant. And the process of searching references should lead to more thoughts that go in the mix. If a worthwhile thought is made,  it should be noted. The references themselves aren't really part of the zettelkasten, but there is a set of fixed relationships with it, rather like a label sewn into an item of clothing.

Now,  I'm not advocating you do this,  but it is the zettelkasten system.

I'm still faffing around with techniques and programs, so I'm still nowhere really,  although I feel subjectively that I have got a long way.
522
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 16, 2020, 05:25 PM »
Warning - I haven't tried this, and MBAM blocks the site as a Trojan. 
-rjbull (June 16, 2020, 04:29 PM)
I wondered whether Info Select needed cloning,  and then noticed the .ch.
After your MBAM warning,  I decided not to visit the site.
523
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 16, 2020, 03:15 PM »
People are trying.  The creator is resisting.
-wraith808 (June 14, 2020, 02:45 PM)
I'd like to think it will evolve if the more important players move in the same direction. The overall cost of maintenance pushes them in that direction, although everyone is always wanting extras so a system to agree on those is what's needed.
524
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 16, 2020, 03:11 PM »
GeistMap is a personal knowledge network for taking notes and mapping concepts:
-panzer (June 15, 2020, 04:02 PM)
this seems quite interesting, but I'm not sure about the traction
525
General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Last post by Dormouse on June 16, 2020, 03:09 PM »
Re: markdown standardization. StackOverflow
-Nod5 (June 16, 2020, 01:54 PM)
I notice that they also said
Things like spoilers, MathJax, circuit diagrams, stack snippets, etc. are used on several network sites. We're going to continue to support all of those custom syntax elements even if they're not part of the official CommonMark specification.
So standardisation, but only up to a point.
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