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401
General Software Discussion / Re: Scripting vs. Programming
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 04:15 PM »
...
 Of course this line is blurred,
...

Hence this futile exercise, but it is fun!  :)

...
It's the same as describing someone as a runner or a writer. Most people can run and write yet the titles imply a higher level of competency and experience in the task.

Yes, but what specific demarcation is the "graduation" to writing, running or programming?  Who is the judge?

You make some good points, but let me ask you this.  If you were an employer for an I.T. department and you needed to hire a "programmer," which would you hire?
  • A person that has written hundreds of 50 - 3500 line "scripts" and even one 4300 line "script."
  • A person that has coded in C++, Delphi and (way back) COBOL, but the longest "program" was only 780 lines and there wasn't that many.
Ok, maybe that's not be completely fair, but it says something about this debate.

Oh, one more thing.  I have often noted that in a debate of this nature the reason that it is very difficult to qualify and/or quantify where the line actually goes is because there was never any real line there in the first place.   At least from my perspective.
402
This conversation has recenly come up so I thought I would put it to a vote on DC. 
Inquiring minds want to know!  :D
403
General Software Discussion / Re: Scripting vs. Programming
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 03:06 PM »
So what about application scripting then? Is it "application programming" for you?

Hi Tux.  I see what your saying, but that is a whole other realm.  I was talking about proper names of entities.  You are discussing idiomatic terminology for an action that is based on colloquial patterns of accepted norms of usage.  The norms being that the term "scripting" suggests quick or brief coding.  The term "programming" usually carries a sense of long, complicated and laborious, but you and I both know that the descriptions are often reversed, right?  

See what I mean?
404
Living Room / Re: DC Scoreboard... anyone wanna play?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 02:58 PM »
...
Pligg is an open source solution.  You host it on your domain and make modifications to suit.  Even from your updated description it sounds like what Pligg does.  Allow you to vote, and thus bubble up, postings - what the categories are, what the posting are is up to the person setting up a Pligg website.  I have even seen websites setup for voting on software using the Pligg engine.

Thanks for the encouragement.  I already had it on my ToDo list from your first suggestion.  :)
405
General Software Discussion / Re: Scripting vs. Programming
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 02:54 PM »
...
Scripting Languages use variables - example: VBScript.

How about this...

The only reason that any one conceives of VBScript, Javascript, etc. IMIO is because the "script" moniker was hung on to the name.   Would it (them) be known as "script" if the author(s) had named them "VBExtra," "JavaRod," etc.

Could this be a valid explanation?
406
Living Room / Offsite Survey and Results
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 02:20 PM »
 :feedback:
407
Living Room / Re: DC Scoreboard... anyone wanna play?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 02:06 PM »
Sounds like what Pligg is for - Pligg was originally created as a Digg clone.

Thanks for the link.  I really appreciate it.  Before I say anything else, I'd like to say that if I sound frustrated, it is not at you or Mouser or anyone.  I am just frustrated.  I have had an idea for tapping the incredible resources at DC for years and I can not pin it down!  The vision is tangible, but elusive.  It wisps by my thoughts daily, like looking through the fog.  That is why I requested participation.  I had hoped with the help of others, it might be able to be framed more concisely.  Let me try to see if I can get the actions I visualize to use the "idea."  The vision has some steps, but this can be changed to whatever works best.

<<1>> Somewhere/somehow on DC, members and guests meander over to the "survey" (or whatever) page and click (vote) for their favorites.

<<2>> Let's imagine I am looking for a SD Card Reader.  I go to bestlist.dcmembers.donationcoder.com (or click on a link at DC that takes me there) on my laptop and choose the "Hardware" category.  Next I choose "Readers."  Next choice, "Card Readers."  Finally I navigate to, "SD Card Readers."  Now I am presented with a ranked list.  Depending on the candidates, I make a choice or continue my research accordingly.  

The above list I would consider above would have been dynamically populated based on the continuous "clicks" in step 1.

Other ideas might be some way of flagging polls or maybe a dedicated "survey" page, etc.

In regard to your "pligg" suggestion, I could try that or maybe even set it up on some other server, but how would that benefit DC?  Consider the prerequisite to that... how would we get the DC folks over there to vote/use?  Would this be powered by a direct link on DC to the "list" site?  See, There are lots of questions I have no reference to answer.  It is because of the caliber of intellect and integrity that exists at DC that would give a tool like this an integrity that could be used and depended on.  I can assure you this is in no way intended or purposed to put my name up in lights.  My purpose is specifically for the betterment (AFAICT) of DC and the folks there.  I would be totally willing to converse via PM with anyone that wanted to run with it and I would bow out as a principal, if my lack of expertise or experience hindered the project.

@Mouser,
I realize I could go and do this (or anything I would have the capability to do) where ever I please.  Maybe I will.  I was just hoping someone else at DC would catch my vision.  Please, if this is outside of the "vision" for DC, you or anyone else feel free to PM me and set me straight so I can work for DC and not against it.  I have said it before and I will say it again, Cody's Home is a very special place.
If I did set up a "list" on my own, would you be interested in linking DC to it somehow, so folks here could get there easily?  Comments?

[Edit - Additions]
408
Living Room / Re: DC Scoreboard... anyone wanna play?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 12:31 PM »
sounds like a useful idea, but one that would not be dc specific -- so maybe a generic website that does this is around somewhere?

Yeah, it's so "useful" that in a hundred views yours is the only response and that was essentially a rejection.  So what, it's just back to the drawing board again for a crack at my other ideas.

For the record, *if* this did take on some life and given that it would be DC Members and Guests that would do the "voting," how would this work? :huh:
409
General Software Discussion / Re: Scripting vs. Programming
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 09, 2009, 12:11 PM »
You know, this is really good practice for arguing about...
Ford and Chevy
As a courtesy for any non-USA residents that may not understand this here is a little background.

Ford and Chevrolet ("Chevy") are major manufacturers of automobiles in the USA and elsewhere.  Given attitude in human nature of "mine is better," long-standing rivalries developed between Ford and Chevy owners about which is better.  Every year there was some racing big shot bragging about how their "Ford" was faster than all the "Chevies" only to be beaten by a Chevy the next year, yada, yada, yada. 

The fact that this battle still rages on simply means that neither brand was "better."  They were (are?) both good cars.

I have driven and owned both and the only real difference I ever noted, besides styling, was that one cranked the window down with a clockwise motion and the other with a counter-clockwise rotation.  When I was a young stallion and owned a Ford, Ford was "Boss!"  When I owned a Chevrolet, my Chevy was King of the Road.  When I owned an older Honda Civic, I had fun! :D
A friend called it a "pregnant roller-skate" since it was so small, but I had a blast with that little car!  :-*


The only useful reason I can see for even going through this exercise is to eliminate ambiguity when someone says, "program" or "script."  This gets everyone on the same page and eliminates any confusion which enhances productivity.  It should also reduce stress. 

Given this is something of a quasi "Ford and Chevy" debate, perhaps we might be able to simplify it, just for convenience (and our sanity).  After reading and rereading this series of posts I see one common thread.  So, I submit the following...

If it is a list (series or parallel) of coded instructions which uses "variables" (volatile locations in RAM that can be changed, directly or indirectly, by the programmer's action it is a "Programming" language, regardless of whether it is "compiled" or "interpreted."

If it is a list series (series or parallel) of coded instructions which does not use "variables" (volatile locations in RAM that can be changed, directly or indirectly, by the programmer's action) it is a "Scripting" language, regardless of whether it is "compiled" or "interpreted."

I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer here, but I don't get what all the hub-bub is about?  :huh:
410
General Software Discussion / Re: Scripting vs. Programming
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 05:38 PM »
...
euhmm... and now ...
what is xslt & sql?

(just to finish the full classification  ;))

Now you done it!  You just had to ask... just had to ask!
[Farmsteader slaps his dusty hat on the knee of his faded overalls as he gets up to leave.]  :D
411
Living Room / Re: Death in Family
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 03:53 PM »
Tuxman, thanks for listening and welcome to a new (old) dimension.

412
Maybe another thing that makes DC special is that while there are plenty of places to find really good software, plenty of places to find really good coders, and plenty of places to find very knowledgeable techies, maybe there aren't so many places where non-experts are welcomed so enthusiastically into the discussions and projects?

Bingo!
413
Living Room / Re: Death in Family
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 03:29 PM »
I wouldn't call an anonymous board "my friends". Maybe some of us are. But death is usually not a topic for public discussions, is it?
...

Hi Tuxman,

Not in today's social economy.  We have become a local and global society of locks, burglar alarms and privacy fences and this has internalized like osmosis into the very essence of our beings.  As it turns out, I am writing a paper on the "Invisible Privacy Fences" right now.  I will link you to it when I am done (Q1 '10), if you like, but I digress.

The crux is that this is a contemporary phenomenon.  Life did not used to be that way.  Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting some Pollyanna-style delusion of sticking our heads in the sand.  There is badness in the world we should be alert to when necessary.  I am saying that the conception of "community" has been suffering an ever-advancing anemia with the cancer of vox populi vox dei.  

It is irefutable that urbanization has, does and will degrade human relationships by ever-expanding usurpation of the capacity of individuals (neighbors) to provide what others need through public "services;" thereby destroying the womb of community adhesion.  Simply, urbanization aborts the unborn child of community by displacing the nurturing habitat.  Community never gets a chace to form, let alone grow which leaves us impotent and ineffective.  This is a maxim well understood by "others" that would leverage their agendas.  

Let's test this and see if it holds...

  • Do you run out of your house in the middle of the night ready with bucket-in-hand or hose to bring aid to your neighbors down the street when you hear the siren of the fire truck a block away?  
  • When you hear your neighbor (or even friend) planning to put up a large shed (or, ironically, a privacy fence) in his back yard next Saturday, do you arrive at his house uninvited just in time for a hearty breakfast in your overalls with gloves, hammer and saw in hand?
  • When you hear of the loss of a child in a neighborhood family do you take days off and make sure they know that you are there for them without thinking about what it will cost you at the end of the week in lost wages?  Are you even close enough to your neighbors to know when a loss has occurred?

Why?

The answers are pretty obvious, except in very rare circumstances.  The questions were rhetorical.  It is the nature of the desensitized culture we have all been duped by in this age unless we examine it further.  When we stand in our pajamas, our feet wet with dew, in our front yard after midnight distantly viewing the conflagration and the commotion, we feel helpless and emasculated.  We stand with our arms limp at our side, useless to render aid.  Not because we want to, but because we are stripped of purpose at the moment.  Our natural inclination to assist has been lobotomized from our essence by the effect of the juggernaut of public works and urbanized economies.  In our displacement we don't realize how gladly our neighbor's wife would be to "add another plate" being girded up in knowing her husband won't be alone all day in his task.  In the same vein, the timid smile that would creep on to the face of your neighbor when he opens the door and sees you standing on his porch, realizing that somebody cares about his tragic loss can not be provided by or explained with words.

Perhaps the scenarios I am suggesting may seem far-fetched and unrealistic to you.  That would be no surprise, but I assure you this is the way life existed and still exists where the membranes of "progress' did not and have not been able to consume life-cells in their phagocytosis.  People used to be neighbors in this way as I describe.  I have heard about it from grandmas and grandpas.  I have read it in American and foreign histories.  I have seen it in the lives of my parent's generation.  I have lived it for twenty years of my fifty.  One would be considered maladjusted if one did not ask their neighbor for help or let on that they were planning to raise a barn.  Society is supposed to be vibrant with caring.

Please do not feel that I am condemning you in any way.  I anticipated that someone would find Stoic Joker's expression a bit beyond the acceptable norms in the public arena.  I only wanted you to know one reason why you felt about it the way you did.  The good news is if you have discovered something in this that, although it seemed odd at first, now seems to be growing on you then you are seeing the first gleams of dawn about what this DC Community is all about and why Stoic Joker felt the need to share his loss.  

I realize I have rambled some.  Perhaps a careful review of this thread may prove instructive.

[Edit - formatting and additions.]
414
Living Room / DC Scoreboard... anyone wanna play?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 04:33 AM »
Like many here, I often come to DC to find an "answer" to some particular need.  The problem is one has to wade through many reviews, comments, etc. to mine out the consensus on which needed entity is the best, fastest, etc. It is not that the reviews, etc. are bad; on the contrary, as a whole they are a rich treasure chest.  Unfortunately, something of a cohesive format seems to be lacking in the research experience.

How about a "scoreboard" (resource grid) that would turn DC consensus on [fill-in-the-blank] into a valuable resource.  Here are some particulars:
  • Set up a page/thread that would display lists of each candidate of a category (program, tools, books, tips, etc.) that would (hopefully) be self-maintaining by allowing Guests(?)/Members to vote (much like a poll) once it is established.
  • Dynamic ranking on the server based on each vote up to the minute like the polls, but unlike the polls, the listed order would be dynamic with the "best" at the top and worst at the bottom.
  • Fraud would be controlled by the same mechanism that polls use.  Minimal moderator intervention would be required.

This is a project I would like to have my fingers in the pie a lot.  I have never done any back-end coding before and I would like to get some experience (I am not asking for direct access to the server), but anyone that can catch the vision would be welcome to participate.

If there is already a "scoreboard," please feel free to direct me to its location.  If not, would the ability to go to the "DC Scoreboard" and look at the list of "Widgets" to see at a glance which "Widget" the DC community has identified as the best be something that would benefit your time on DC?  

What do you think?  At least tell me if this already exists and where?
415
Living Room / Re: Can there be a free Web if no one makes money?
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 03:53 AM »
The Internet is the "great leveler."
416
This is not the usual run-of-the-mill question I see on DC, so I will respond with more than the run-of-the-mill answer.

First off, following April (app103) is a tough call.  She really expresses the "feeling" I would try to convey, so I hope I won't be redundant.  I do have a thing or two I would let on about.  Hopefully, the meaning will come through.  

Sometime back I tried a pretty radical experiment on DC.  Some caught on to what I was up to, but most interpreted it in a way I that caused no little grief for themselves and me.  I really did shake the joint up pretty good and I would not do it again, but that is not the point.  The point is that after I made my amends I have not suffered one comment being "thrown back in my face" about that snafu.  No one has ridiculed or ostracized me; on the contrary, it is if I had never taken my misstep.  I feel as welcome today as I did the very first day I ever posted 3-1/2 years ago.

I am over fifty.  I have been messing with computers and the Internet since 1994(?).  I have been a whole bunch of places and participated on a lot of boards and there is no other forum I have come across that "feels" the way it does in Cody's Home.

There has never been a question I have asked that was not answered in a way I could grasp, albeit sometimes it took a few laps around the track.  Every suggestion I have made was given a fair shot even when some were not so bright.

An excellent resource for great software and outstanding coding education.  No one will babysit, but there is always a hand-up when it is needed.

Lastly, due to certain events that have happened in my life, I have come to know the existence of Yahweh (God) in a way that can never be shaken and many core members here know this is true about me.  This fact may seem anemic unless you understand that many, if not most of those core members are Atheist in their beliefs and one has stated to be a "Vehement Atheist."  I do not "preach" at them and they respect me as an intelligent human being.  There is a harmony, a peace which reigns over this camp and it is very sweet.  The truth is (hopefully not to their chagrin) I have learned to know more about Yahweh (God) and His true nature through them than I did going to church since I was a child.  I have invited many of my God-loving friends and acquaintances to come to this haven, but sadly their spiritual prejudice was great and I could not convince any to "taste and see it is good."

You asked, "What is DonationCoder and What Are You Doing Here?"  The short answer for "where," ironically, is "Heaven" if you count relationships with human beings to be the most prized possessions a person can have.  As far as the "what?"  Well, I am learning about a lot more than programming, growing into a lot more than a solid technician, maturing into a lot more than just a man and loving a lot more than I ever expected.

I never expected what I am today to be what I expected when I made my first post here some 667 posts ago and I can't wait to see what I will become by the time I have made 667 more!

I hope that answers your questions.

[Edit - Fromatting and diction corrections.]
417
Hey Mouser,
Do you really have the archways in on the hall?  Just so happens, I have been looking for the same thing, but the $99 is a little tough to come by.  Oh well, that's what wish lists are for, right? 
Nice pad!
418
Living Room / Re: Death in Family
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 08, 2009, 12:18 AM »
Hi SJ,

I just found this thread.  I am glad you let us know. It shows you know we care. You are a valuable gift to the DC community. I hope we can be the same for you.

I lost a child too, but she was very young.  Not that I am your best friend, but you can PM me if you need to talk.

I hope it won't be too long before you can enjoy the sunrise again.

Your friend,
Calvin

419
N.A.N.Y. 2010 / Re: NANY 2010 Teaser: The Garden Social Club
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 10:36 PM »
Obviously not just animals, these had huge social issues!
Yep, but that was between flora and fauna.  This is strictly in the botanical realm
420
N.A.N.Y. 2010 / Re: NANY 2010 - Pledge to Participate Here
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 10:27 PM »
...
It's kinda like a stripped down version of HP's WebJet Admin, main differences being mine is tiny, portable, and fast (you can scan a standard class C network with it in about 12 seconds).
...

Sounds great to me! My network is, "... tiny, portable, and fast...."  :P
421
fSekrit / Re: LATEST VERSION: fSekrit 1.40 shrinkwrapped!
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 04:31 PM »
...
But I guess a lot of people don't have support for PGP or S/MIME, or can't figure out how to use it - I guess fSekrit isn't the worst alternative then :)

Ahem... I resent resemble that remark! :P  I never understood them and was never able to make them work.

So... now you know the raw truth.  :-[

[CodeTRUCKER, head down with eyes lowered painfully walks toward the exit door of these hallowed halls of technological mensa, knowing the scharade is over!

422
Developer's Corner / Re: Programming Language Adapability
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 04:16 PM »
The problem with your question is that the previous paradigms (Print, Radio, Television) were so completely divorced from each other that pretty much nothing survived from one medium to the other in terms of technology intact.  If we're to take that approach, then the answer would be none.  Because it would be so completely out of left field as to be a different dimension of communication.

Look at print to radio.  How many operators in the field (press operators, etc.. not producers of media) transitioned using their same daily operations.  Zero?  Then from Print to Radio... Zero again, I'd hazard.  From radio to Television?  There might be some technological overlap- but not much...

Hi wraith808,

Thanks for the comment.  I have modified my original post (somewhat) to handle the weakness you presented.  I said "somewhat" because I don't see that I totally missed it... 

The Print... Radio... TV... Internet (Computer) logic carries additional information you might not have considered enough, but you did touch on it in your last thought.   "Print to Radio" was certainly a huge jump, but "Radio to TV" was less of a jump and "TV to Internet (Computer)," in my estimation was even less of a jump.  If we follow this logic then the next "Internet Computer to ???" should be even less of a leap than any of the other jumps, unless I am missing something?  So, it should be conceivable that at least some of the existing programming languages would be able to make the cut.  Remember, the whole point of the poll/post was to...

... discover if there is a consensus about which programming language (if any) will be able to survive the coming shift in computer programming paradigm?

I hope that helps frame it better and you will be able to vote.  :) 

Try the game too!  (Hint: The answer is related to the DC board and others like it.) 
423
N.A.N.Y. 2010 / Re: NANY 2010 Teaser: The Garden Social Club
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 12:31 PM »
nah, why do you think cats are always meowing?
Who said I was talking about animals?  :)

[edit - Spelling]
424
N.A.N.Y. 2010 / NANY 2010 WITHDRAWN: The Garden Social Club
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 11:37 AM »
Did you know that people are not the only ones who have social issues? :o
425
fSekrit / Re: LATEST VERSION: fSekrit 1.40 shrinkwrapped!
« Last post by CodeTRUCKER on December 07, 2009, 11:23 AM »
Thanks f0dder - this is the only way I have felt comfortable having a private chat with family and friends over the Internet.  Using prearranged passwords we are able to send attachments back and forth.  I never felt that way using PGP, etc., but maybe I wasn't using them right.  Now where did I put those Cody Coins...
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