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401
General Software Discussion / Re: Google+ Extensions thread
« Last post by JavaJones on September 17, 2011, 09:11 PM »
G+ is not *usually* slow for me, though certainly it is sometimes. Does it seem slow as in "taking a while to fetch the data from the server" or slow as in "running too much Javascript and slowing down my browser/computer"?

FF may benchmark faster (depends on version and test), but in repeated anecdotal "tests" Chrome "feels" faster (this is a sentiment echoed by almost anyone I know who has tried Chrome recently vs. FF). :D

- Oshyan
402
As far as I know the countdown only happens if you have updates set to fully automatic, i.e. not on "download but let me decide when to install", or other options. In that case, even if you do the update manually before the scheduled time, I believe if you leave it to sit after finishing, it will start a restart countdown.

- Oshyan
403
Er, so how do I boot from the magic hidden partition? It always tells me to insert the Win 7 install DVD. ;)

- Oshyan
404
I tend to do the same, but I seem to recall wanting to install Windows on an existing drive in this case and wanting to have them all available so I knew which one to use. Or something like that. I could have unplugged the rest after I figured it out I guess. Oh well.

- Oshyan
405
Carol, that's exactly what I did. About 5 times each with both the changed config (without the old, dying drive) and then after I put the old drive back in hoping to use the Windows-based BCD editor. No dice. I tried both the automated "startup repair" option in the GUI, as well as bootrec with all options from the commandline.

- Oshyan
406
I'm sorry, I really don't get your arguments. They seem all over the map.

Dropbox was invite-only to start as well. I don't see the distinction from Gmail.

When I said "is it better to try to have flexible software that adapts to the user (assuming they know what they want), or to have software that implements a really good way of doing things and have the user adapt to that?", it was implied in my mind - though I now realize not stated clearly enough - that we needed a *new* "really good way of doing things", and Gmail then is a perfect example of that to me. I still maintain that a large part of its success was the fact that it did things totally differently from other systems, and this is based not just on my own experience and opinions but those of many, many people, both personal acquaintances and online, from average people to techies. Many, many people say similar things, something like "I used to worry about carefully filing all my mail into folders, how to deal with something that belonged in multiple folders, etc. Now I just use Gmail, labeling things when it makes sense, and using search for the rest. I find stuff way faster just by remembering a few things about it." So Google had a good idea (IMO) and also a new idea and that, combined with a clever way of marketing it and making it available, made it successful. It has continued to be successful built largely on the solid base of its unique mail organization metaphor.

I guess reading your reply(ies) in full, maybe you just misunderstood my original argument. If that's the case, maybe you don't disagree with me at all. Or, if you do, I really can't understand it. ;) So that being the case I still think we should just drop the Gmail discussion and look for other examples so we can discuss the original question! I think the lengthy tangent on whether Gmail is a good example is much more thread drift than addressing my question which, while philosophical and not directly on topic of the original post, could still lead to relevant info and answers. I personally feel that we have a better chance of finding real solutions if we first figure out whether we're looking for something to adapt to our desired ways of working, or are instead willing to adapt to a theoretically better way of working that is embodied in a particular tool. I am saying that I think the latter *may* be more realistic...

- Oshyan
407
Yeah, it's kind of shocking that I wasn't really conscious of this. Once I figured out what happened it made sense to me (though still seemed quite stupid and limited), and I'm sure I learned/knew this at one time, but clearly had forgotten. In any case regardless of that, it seems like a ridiculous limitation. In this day and age when MS is trying to make everything easier for the lay person, when they've given the boot-up DVD a decent GUI implying it might even be for use of average folk, and even further with Win8 apparently including some kind of partial reinstall "refresh" option, it's shocking that the boot management system is so limited and fragile. Seriously.

- Oshyan
408
General Software Discussion / Is Windows 7 boot management more broken than ever?
« Last post by JavaJones on September 15, 2011, 03:24 PM »
I had a really "fun" experience last night as I tried to replace a failing 2TB HD in my media machine with a new 3TB I purchased. On the plus side SMART warned me early that there was a problem so I had time to order the new drive (2 day shipping, thanks Amazon!), install it, and copy everything over to it before the old drive started to smoke (it hasn't done that yet actually, heh).

On the negative side, it turns out the H: drive that was failing was actually on SATA 1 and, apparently, was the boot drive, even though Windows is installed on another drive. There's no OS installed on this system, never has been, so while I recognize the potential benefit of allowing partitions without the primary OS on it to be the "boot" partition, I really think this should be an advanced option that you need to manually specify. I also don't think it should have to do with what SATA port your drive is plugged in to. It's long enough ago that I can't remember why the config ended up this way, but I'm pretty confident I was not aware that some drive other than the OS install drive was set to manage booting. Why, after all, would I do this intentionally unless I was multi-booting? So my first issue is that I think Windows basically made this decision on its own during install of Win7. Bad default.

That would not be so bad *if* Windows could intelligently move or recover from the loss of a boot drive. In my case, at least, it could not. Here's what happened:

I removed the failing drive after copying everything off of it and on next boot I got a message "Reboot and select proper boot device..." etc. Now I had just copied all the files off the drive, I knew it wasn't the Windows install drive, but I plugged it back in just to be sure. It booted up, of course, but looking at H: showed no Windows files, as I thought. Unplugged again, same message. OK, Windows is stupid, but a simple repair should work, yes? Put in the DVD, booted to it, tried startup repair several times in sequence, no go. It didn't even recognize the Windows install I had in there, even though it was on C: and in the default \Windows install directory. WTF? Tried manual startup repair from command prompt in recovery mode. Nope. Then I found out about bcdedit.exe and the new way Windows 7 manages booting. I found a Windows-based BCD tool so I figured I'd just boot back into Windows and specify the right drive for boot. Oops, the "repairs" I had attempted previously without the old drive in there appear to have done *something*: they made it so even the old config doesn't work. Argh!

Finally I found these instructions and yes, I had to follow every last one, essentially manually recreating the bcd file. This is a royal pain in the ass. This should not be necessary.

Why in the name of all that is holy does Windows 7 not handle this more gracefully? Seeing what is actually *in* the BCD file it is retardedly simple. The kind of thing you would think could be generated on the fly *if necessary*. A simple scan of the available drives ought to turn up *all* of the info that's in there. It's absolutely ridiculous that I had to spent a half hour in the command prompt to fix this, and that was only after an hour or two of trying other options that should have been easier and should have worked. Really I think it should have "just worked" considering nothing was lost except this stupid BCD file.

So has anyone else experienced this? Any sane explanations as to why it's done this way and why recovery is not easier? Why could Windows Startup Repair not even find my Windows install (yes, the BCD file was missing, but there is a bcdedit scan function that can find it, why did the GUI version not do this?)? Am I just ridiculous for expecting to be able to remove a non-boot (or apparently not) drive and expect my system to still boot? And why did I even get into this mess in the first place - I never asked Windows to use a drive other than the Windows install drive for boot management.

- Oshyan
409
Living Room / Re: Would you trust this ... ?
« Last post by JavaJones on September 15, 2011, 03:07 PM »
Yes, Gmail does what this seems to do. The difference as far as I can see is they claim "no registration"? I certainly wouldn't use it, but then I *do* use Gmail so I don't need it. And I did give Gmail passwords for some other accounts...

- Oshyan
410
Paul, it sounds like a lot of your argument is driven by your own personal experiences with Gmail (while you argue from a more generalist perspective, the actual points you're making exactly mirror how you describe your personal experience). To me the simple fact that you kept using Gmail "despite" not being into its UI and mail organization metaphor means it is *at least* not so bad you had to switch, and does enough other things right to be worth keeping. In the end adoption is a (though not *the*) critical measure. Granted in a situation like with Gmail there are many factors affecting adoption, but many that you point out only became relevant later in its life, or were - I think - secondary to its core functionality and appeal. I maintain that if the underlying mail handling metaphor were unworkable for people, they would leave.

So I still feel strongly that Gmail is a good example of what I'm talking about and nothing you've brought up really makes me think otherwise. You don't need to use Gmail to have a Google Account and use Docs for example, but you chose to for some reason. I'm not up to going point-by-point on your arguments at the moment, but for just one more example, you say something like " in terms of the questions you've raised, Gmail didn't suddenly answer it so it's a poor example", when in fact it absolutely did. Gmail started from day 1 with a novel approach to organizing mail. *That* is the point I'm getting at - they came up with a new idea and put it out there and it's hard in my view to argue that their mail organizing system did not at least contribute to Gmail's success. Yes, it was invite only for a long time (nearly 3 years), but anyone who started using it obviously had no investment in it beyond initial novelty; the fact that many continued to use it says something. You almost seem to be arguing its success was *in spite* of its biggest stand-out feature. That just seems like a willful desire to avoid seeing labels-and-search as the breakthrough it was for email at the time, simply (I gather) because you personally don't like it.

I think MLO is an example of someone trying to do something differently in the task management space, so maybe more directly relevant here. Maybe there are other examples. Rather than trying to tear down my Gmail example, why not come up with some better ones? You seem to be open to the idea that novel approaches to task management that enforce rules on a user *may* in fact be better than highly flexible systems that give no direction. So let's focus on that.

- Oshyan
411
Gmail did work in a way that people wanted. People wanted a webmail service that did a better job of storing their e-mails and didn't make e-mail checking like a race towards not getting it deleted after a couple of months of inactivity.
Sure, just like how people want a task manager that keeps track of everything in their lives for them, prioritizes it automatically, and is easy and quick to use, not taking up noticeable time in their day just for task management. So yeah, Gmail worked in a way that people wanted when you consider it at a very high level, which is almost meaningless (but at least establishes the goals), but in terms of actual in-use functionality it was a somewhat radical departure, a gamble, and one that really worked. There has to be some lessons to learn there, don't you think?

The overall product was unorthodox but what made it catch on was neither flexibility nor quality. It was partially branding. It was partially that Google made the gmail account more and more into the first OpenID with hard to resist companion tools such as Google Docs and Google Reader.
I didn't say it was flexibility or quality, it was in fact a new way of organizing and finding mail. Most of additional, integrated services and "openID"-type authentication management came later. While Google had a good brand, many also saw them as solely a search company and wondered why they were doing mail, not to mention many were hesitant to use a "beta" product (that remained in beta for years).

There are indeed a couple of reasons that Gmail caught on that have nothing to do with its UI or how it handles mail (large amount of free space, ability to use POP and IMAP out of the box for free) *but* if the mail handling ideas and UI had not actually ended up being a good fit for most people, they would *not* have stuck with it, especially as competitors began to mirror Gmail's *other* main stand-out features (e.g. large free storage space). Gmail has only continued to grow in user numbers, despite best efforts by Microsoft, Yahoo, and others, who are now providing large(r) amounts of free space, as many or more integrated services (Windows Live has tons, as does Yahoo with the YID), etc. Why is that? I would argue it is in large part because Gmail "just works", it established a new way of doing things and because it actually was an improvement, people adapted to it and many love it. I've heard countless Gmail users say how much they love how Gmail works, not once have I heard that about Hotmail or Yahoo, and both work in traditional folder-oriented ways and have much slower, more limited search functions.

It was also because their competitors declined and constantly changed the interface of their own system in ways that alienated their users. It was even because there was a lot of continued hooks to it. Pre-Dropbox, it had the first casual online storage due to a Firefox extension. It arguably filtered spam better. It had a GTD-like mentality with Archiving which made some people even switch to it just to see how it's done.
Your last point is exactly mine: it did things differently. Sure there were lots of other smaller reasons, like the ability to use it as a "file locker", but the vast majority of users did not take advantage of that, probably weren't even aware of it. The UI is the one, glaring stand-out aspect of it that no one else duplicates and is, I believe, a big part of the reason for their success.

That's a lot of active developments over time to build it's userbase. When you have that consistency, you're pretty much bound to dodge the question of what's the better concept. It's why the startup mentality is to release fast and to release early. Do that enough times and you end up with not so much a flexible software but a seemingly flexible software due to the development team becoming more flexible thanks to the feedback of their current user base. Follow that trail enough times and you get a better sense of doing things for your userbase that you are less required to develop something good and simply develop something that would wow your users that they think came from you but in reality came from their gathered up feedback.
Hmm, and you think that's what happened with Gmail? Google wasn't doing anything with mail at all and suddenly Gmail came out of the blue with a totally different way of handling it. How does that fit into the picture you've painted of product development?

This doesn't mean the question isn't important to answer but I think Gmail is just a poor example to use as far as setting up a clue as to which question is the right answer.
And I very much disagree, and hopefully I've shown why. :D

- Oshyan
412
Living Room / Re: Building a home server. Please help, DC!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 14, 2011, 06:15 PM »
Also keeping in mind that a NAS will never match the performance of local storage (assuming equivalent data devices and configuration - the limitation is in the connectivity).

- Oshyan
413
Living Room / Re: Thoughts in remembrance of 911
« Last post by JavaJones on September 14, 2011, 06:06 PM »
Agreed wraith, that was the subtext in my statement and that simple word in particular.

- Oshyan
414
mouser hit on something that occurred to me when I was just finishing the 1st page of this thread: I think that for some, perhaps many, who develop free/donation/open source software, there is a distinct disinterest in what it takes to run a normal business, perhaps most particularly with marketing and sales efforts. I can totally understand it, these are some of my least favorite activities. Now you could argue that free software without marketing is potentially as unlikely to succeed as commercial software without marketing.

What is potentially interesting to consider is the possibility that free is in itself a marketing factor. How you license your software affects how people think of, relate to, and talk about it. Free and open source have huge, independently motivated communities behind them that can become your evangelists without a lot of difficulty, provided you're offering an interesting product (and that may be almost the most fundamental requirement, interesting product). hsoft alludes to this affect on his products and I've seen it many times before. So in a sense people who choose free/open source as a model may be opting for "free" (in multiple senses) marketing as well, whether consciously or unconsciously, and may be doing so partly or largely out of a desire to avoid having to do explicit marketing. Given the actual potential impact of "free" on people's mindsets, this is actually a legitimate option (see the many large businesses today that base their profitable business models on "free", e.g. Google).

I also really like 40hz's idea of small devs banding together. It reminds me of the old GoD game publisher ("Gathering of Developers"), though that is not exactly a success story. ;) I'm also fairly certain I've seen some examples of things like that, though I can't recall specific links or product names unfortunately. I think the important point though is that it's vital to remove as many barriers and inconveniences as possible from the act of transferring money from user to developer. The idea of allowing SMS/mobile phone payments is very interesting for example.

Regarding users guiding software development/features, this has been discussed elsewhere on DC before, and it has its pluses and minuses. I would think many devs would be wary of having their dev priorities fully - or perhaps even largely - driven by user demand (although at the same time many would probably agree that their work is already partly or largely driven by a "filtered" personal sense of user need). As hsoft mentions, sometimes unglamorous stuff needs to be worked on. However I do think something as simple as allowing donating users to vote on features (and not allowing non-donating users to do so) could be a good approach. Just because something is voted on does not mean it's going to happen, and not attaching money directly to the vote means it carries less load and expectation.

I'm also glad to see 40hz brought up the "most people don't care" point and that this prompted mouser's previously mentioned idea of a fixed price up-front with a "show me other ways to pay for this" option. I had forgotten about this idea but I remain very curious about it and I'd really like to see someone try it on an already successful app (so we have a basis for comparison). I agree with 40hz, it's a chance to do some real experimentation and put actual numbers to our speculations and feelings on these issues. mouser, how about it? Screenshotcaptor maybe?

40hz also brings up the oft-discussed "manifesto" idea. I like the idea in concept, and there are various pieces of philosophy already scattered around the site, but I wonder if trying to distill and clarify would necessarily leave some of the things people love here behind. How do you reconcile a site that offers specific software for download and "sale" (donation), as well as support on that software, with a site that is a more general software-and-tech-advice community that is so much broader than the software the site provides itself? Well, DonationCoder, that's how! But is it really working as best it could? Would a "manifesto" focus and improve things? Are there parts of the site and its activities that really are unnecessary or just not successful enough to bother maintaining? Sad to say, that might be the review stuff actually, but I hold a special place in my heart for that. ;)

Re: "humble indie bundle", after the success of the 1st one - if not even before that - I viewed it as somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Granted the circles I run in are much more aware of and into things like that, but I never heard any single game in those bundles described in anything but glowing terms. Many people I heard from who bought it already owned one or more games in the collection and had perhaps purchased them for even more than the average donation price of the HIB, but they bought again just to support it. One could say that was the exception to the rule but the success of the HIBs might indicate otherwise. Still I think the point that their success may simply be due to novelty and an unsaturated market is likely correct so it's not necessarily something to try to emulate, or if you do, try to get in early. It won't work forever I reckon.

- Oshyan

415
One thing I always wonder about with this kind of thing: is it better to try to have flexible software that adapts to the user (assuming they know what they want), or to have software that implements a really good way of doing things and have the user adapt to that? Very often I think the assumption is that doing it the way the user wants is a good thing, but some recent historical precedent has perhaps demonstrated otherwise (I'll get to that in a moment).

I think both are hard problems to solve, the first because trying to account for every possible way someone would want to do things is almost impossible and making those options all work well together is likewise almost impossible, and the second because actually coming up with one really good way to do things requires a lot of thought, experimentation, and intelligence. That being said I think the latter approach might be more likely to succeed.

I think of tools like Gmail that work in ways different from how most people worked, but then caught on and are now indespensible to many, which demonstrate this as a likely reality. The trick then is coming up with a system that "just works" for people to do everything they need to do in this area. Defining scope is difficult given the huge possible number of functions people want to be unified, but doing so is vital to success.

I'm currently looking at MLO and Springpad, both with Android integrations...

- Oshyan
416
Living Room / Re: Building a home server. Please help, DC!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 14, 2011, 03:04 PM »
...connect the tower to my router, which would bring it to my desktop?  Or does that change the whole setup into a NAS...

If the answer to this is not obvious by now, you need to do more research. If the storage unit is attaching to your network, it is a...

- Oshyan
417
Living Room / Re: Thoughts in remembrance of 911
« Last post by JavaJones on September 14, 2011, 02:44 PM »
I just want to say that I read 40hz's post essentially nodding my head in agreement, but steeladept - while not disagreeing with what he wrote - does answer some questions I've also had. Why are the thousands of deaths a year that are a "routine part of life" treated differently than terrorism. I think steeladept gives a partial answer, which I'm appreciative of.

I still don't think the reaction is justified by that, but it's useful to see a clear distinction. In one case - that of the deaths that happen more regularly from every-day actions - there is usually not someone to blame (the driver of the other car maybe, but sometimes neither survives, and it's very seldom malicious). In the other case - that of terrorism - there are not only individuals to blame, but also usually ideology, even race, or other groupings you can use to target those responsible or those who directed, motivated, or simply agreed with them. Again it doesn't make it right, but at least it makes a bit more sense.

To me the most important thing is that those who died on 9/11 are honored and remembered in positive ways.

- Oshyan
418
Living Room / Re: I found a home theater configuration expert!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 09, 2011, 05:06 PM »
Yeah, there are plenty of Gfx card solutions that can do unaltered passthrough of digital audio. It's quite common actually.

Regarding displays, while it may not be best for movie watching, a good IPS display is actually going to give you a wider color gamut than many large flat screen LCD displays. Many large displays are not IPS and so they don't have the wide gamut.

- Oshyan
419
Living Room / Re: BoingBoing Update on Bitcoin Alternatives
« Last post by JavaJones on September 09, 2011, 05:05 PM »
What we want from a monetary system isn’t to make people holding money rich; we want it to facilitate transactions and make the economy as a whole rich. And that’s not at all what is happening in Bitcoin...

Ah, so it mirrors the real economy in that way then? :D

- Oshyan
420
40hz, the SUPER example is a great one because it - and even more so Media Coder - are great displays of what happens when you try to encapsulate significant amounts of CLI functionality in a GUI. In that case they're encapsulating *multiple* CLI programs so the problem is even worse. SUPER simplifies things considerably, removing many of the more flexible options in the interest of simplicity and is, in my opinion, the better for it for most users, i.e. they disallow putting certain kinds of content into certain kinds of media containers because most players won't play them once output. With the CLI apps themselves you could of course do almost any kind of container and codec combination you wanted. Media Coder does a bit less to reduce complexity and the interface is quite cluttered as a result. And still, even in MC's case, you don't have a comprehensive view of all options. So it just illustrates the flexibility of GUI vs. CLI, at least in certain tasks. That being said for the occasional video or audio transcoding I do, SUPER and MC are by far my preference. ;)

I am quite curious to see how much could be done to better integrate scripting with GUIs. There are in fact GUIs specifically designed to *create* scrips, and those are quite an interesting cross-over in the considerations of this thread. Being able to expose your app's underlying functions with through scripting, even if a CLI is not available, is a very good thing IMO. I wish more apps did this. We'll be adding scripting functionality to Terragen at some point, so that should give me an interesting inside look as it is mostly a GUI-driven app (though many people would call the GUI more akin to a CLI in power, flexibility, and complexity/difficulty).

- Oshyan
421
Living Room / Re: I found a home theater configuration expert!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 08, 2011, 01:19 PM »
You're disagreeing on what point and on what basis? That I can process color from a raw blu-ray rip in 32 bit color space on my computer and output that to HDMI? Or that I can have precise control of the gamma and levels? Or something else? Most LCD display panels don't have the gamut to show much of a difference anyway, but at least the underlying processing capability is there and, most importantly, can be updated in pure software on the computer.

- Oshyan
422
Living Room / Re: Building a home server. Please help, DC!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 07, 2011, 09:43 PM »
I think one thing has become abundantly clear from this thread: if you want to implement an "ideal" solution for yourself, you need to understand both your own needs (comprehensively) *and* the technology available to meet your needs.

Now obviously you've been trying to learn about the tech by asking for options here, but the key point is this is just a *starting* point. We can point out possible options - and now there seem to be 3 or 4 on the table - but we can't really pick one "best" one for you. Even you can't do that right now, and that's because you don't fully understand the underlying tech.

I suspect that, even if you were to go with one of our recommended solutions, there would be some caveat in it, or lack of understanding of some feature of it, that would end up being an issue for you. The best way is for you to really understand all this stuff. That will take a lot of time but if you're willing to invest a lot of *money* into it, I think it only sensible to invest a similarly significant amount of *time* into learning the technology so you can make your own well informed decision.

What we've got here in this thread is a starting point for much, much more further research. When you can look at all this stuff and say confidently for yourself something like "I feel RAID is the best solution", and be saying that from a position of understanding and knowledge of the technology underlying the options, then you'll be making your best decision. Until/unless that happens, I suspect you'll keep flip flopping until you make a decision, maybe even one made more or less on a "coin toss", and so - not being fully aware of the limitations through your own deeper understanding - you may well be disappointed in what you end up with.

That being said I hope that's not the case. I hope you settle on a solution and it does everything you want it to. But I do frankly suspect this will just be the beginning and that whatever you go with, you will spend a lot of time trying to make it do exactly what you want.

That's my last "2 cents" input on the matter. ;)

- Oshyan
423
There's also gestures to consider. ;)

I think CLIs have a definite place, so for me it's more a matter of "what's the rite UI for the job?". The issue I have really is anyone casting one or the other as *the* better solution *all the time*. I just don't see how that can be true.

- Oshyan
424
Living Room / Re: Recommend some music videos to me!
« Last post by JavaJones on September 07, 2011, 09:14 PM »
Deo, that was *awesome*! And pretty impressive too. The synchronization between dance moves in different environments was really well done, especially the backflips. Reposting to G+!

- Oshyan
425
Very useful article. I knew about many of these, but was surprised to see their mention of Best Buy's no restocking fee returns. I'm pretty sure that wasn't always the case or, if it is, then it may not cover things that have been opened, which basically makes it useless. Or maybe it has some exclusions (or used to). I say this because back a few years I wanted to buy a digital camera from a place with a good return policy as I wasn't quite sure of my choice yet and wanted an "out" if necessary. I ended up having to buy from Sears as Costco didn't have the camera I wanted and Sears had a no restocking fee return policy whereas Best Buy did not, at least on digital cameras. Often times they do vary their return policy depending on what you purchase.

Costco is also definitely worth a mention, very good return policies and service. I've dealt with them before.

- Oshyan
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