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301

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 14, 2021, 10:20 AM »

Though I see he's developing v2, and it's a bit pricier- at $10 a month after beta!

-wraith808 (April 14, 2021, 08:55 AM)

The email I received seemed to suggest that those paying 5 would just continue unchanged.
But I can see it being worth it for users who are productive with it. There's nothing else like it really.
I might have a look at the new version, but never progressed beyond quite liking the old one.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 13, 2021, 06:43 PM »

Also noticed that Gingko is moving to $5 a month with a free trial rather than a document limit.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 13, 2021, 05:52 PM »

I already stopped using TagSpaces. With largish collections of documents, it really lags.

-wraith808 (April 13, 2021, 05:01 PM)

It does. And the interface just isn't showing me enough. I don't remember it being like that on the desktop - different resolution, faster processor - but this ought not to be slow. So TagSpaces will go. That's OK, not invested much in it overall.

Still dk about Xyplorer. Tags etc aren't multi-platform etc, but it does at least have them. Test documents aren't really an issue because, as you say, they are typed in, but other types of files are. So I will look at how well it might do that.

But my big winner will be OneCommander (v3 beta). For the purpose of going through a very large collection of files, I find that the Miller Column approach suits me (and the mouse) perfectly. Has 7 colour tags - so something for very temporary visual use. But it's no use for tagging.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 13, 2021, 03:03 PM »

The big issue I have now in the zettelkasten is the file management.

-Dormouse (April 13, 2021, 11:34 AM)

I have many file managers & TagSpaces. Plus Search utilities.
In the past, I've found that I tend to have a preferred file manager and setup for particular activities. But none of them jumped out at me once I was doing zettelkasten type notes in .md files. I probably don't want to change Directory Opus, which has been my general go to. I like Q-Dir for shuffling files between folders.
Will need to think about XYplorer more.
dk about TagSpaces. I suspect that I will stop using it. I like the idea, but I'm not sure it can be configured as part of a simple and efficient workflow - display is a bit noisy but also not as detailed as is needed for huge numbers of files.
I have OneCommander installed (v2 + v3 beta), and look at it from time to time. The attraction is Miller columns, and that does offer a genuine alternative in the way the file system is presented.
I like mouse rather than keyboard, which is different to many users, and many explorers which seem optimised for keyboard with less attention to mouse options.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 13, 2021, 11:34 AM »

Thanks. I'm nibbling away at it, while still trying to get some stuff done.

The big issue I have now in the zettelkasten is the file management. I need to refine programs for doing that. Obsidian doesn't really: it does its bit with its own files, but not files in general. Was always going to be crucial with everything in files. I have ways of managing them,  but not a refined system.

Here's the summary of my zettelkasten, as previously described.

306

General Software Discussion / Main Programs in my Current System (for now anyway)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 12, 2021, 01:53 PM »

I thought it might be helpful to give an idea of the main PC programs that I'm using now. (I've ignored programs used for unrelated purposes.)
Some aren't in frequent use, but are an essential part of the system.
It's a very different system to the one I I had when I started this thread. Evernote and OneNote are out.
Some programs have databases, but everything is saved regularly into individual files. The main programs are cross-platform and I have them synced on all devices.
It's organised with inputs at the top, outputs on the right, and supporting programs below.



Mindomo is very new, and might not work out, but it fits a clear gap in my system previously tackled with a range of disconnected approaches - a successful bodge job but not the smoothest for workflow or efficiency.

I used it to do the diagram. All floating topics, which is why they don't line up properly. Multitudes of templates and themes, but none quite fitted. I did look at doing a simple change, but quickly learned how detailed and technical some of the configurations were. Will take me a long time to learn those and I'm determined to spend most of my time producing something rather than just learning, so it will be a long journey, even assuming I stay on the path.

Always possible I have forgotten a number of important parts of the system.

307

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2021, 02:57 PM »

Actually, pretty much sold on signing up. Unfortunately desktop + mobile requires a subscription, but it always takes me at least a year to try things out properly (Obsidian was an aberration), and the price seems pretty standard for the paid mindmap apps. Ticks all my required boxes. Some clashes in markdown syntax, but that's a straightforward conversion. Pessimism has turned to optimism.

I have asked myself what it doesn't do better than all the programs on the list for the short review I'm doing. The answers are:

• cost
• direct link to the editor used for writing
• enforced simplicity (ie risk of being pulled into unproductive ornamentation)

This feels like a remarkably short, though not insignificant, list.

In truth, Mindomo will be the best of these options for brainstorming, organising and reorganising lengthy writing if most development work is done in it from the beginning.

One issue for me that I've noticed is that the text editor for attached notes doesn't seem to have a dark mode option, which risks a glaring white panel. But that should be avoidable. Actually on the web version, it comes up in dark mode on Vivaldi anyway, so no problem at all.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2021, 09:33 AM »

After the demise of my visits to Bubbl.us and friends, I wondered if it was time to restart my search for a mindmapping program that would work as a major part of my workflow. They have progressed a long way since I last looked.

I need:

• cross-platform
• Interoperability (preferably through .md or .txt files; Excel would be good)
• Ease of use (mindmaps quickly become bogged down in setting up details)
• Styling that works for me (I'm always so quick to dismiss mindmaps that I know how subjective this must be)

Having moved quickly through a herd of major contenders, I came to Mindomo which looks possible. Apparently integrates with the ProWritingAid Chrome  extension too.
I'm not hopeful after previous experience, but I'll give it a go.

309

General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 08, 2021, 01:30 PM »

Yes. I added it because markdown might be important for some potential users. And I thought it was worth checking whether it would interfere with DocxManager.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 08, 2021, 08:15 AM »

DocXManager

-wraith808 (April 05, 2021, 03:51 PM)

I've added it to the list. With Writage.
Not a cheap combo at $49 (standard) + $29 + Word, but might suit those familiar with or stuck with Word.

311

General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 07, 2021, 08:20 AM »

That makes complete sense.
I've always done my best to avoid writing in Word, but sometimes it was just easier to do that than the whole export-import-format thing. And the primitive outlining etc was a thorn in the side then. Though the add-ins I looked at seemed more effort than they were worth.

FWIW I've been playing around with Jutoh's Storyboard. Succession of thoughts going 'Wow' and 'Wow' and 'Wow!'. Very complex and finicky to configure unless you just go with default settings,  but can be saved as a template once done. And now, having developed some understanding of what it can do, I have to think about what use can be made of it.
Supposed to be simpler than the Writer's Cafe Storylines, but also more flexible.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 06, 2021, 03:13 AM »

Ha! Yes. Thanks.  It certainly wasn't something that sprang to my mind, and I don't remember ever hearing about it before. Though I might have forgotten.
And it's certainly from a different dimension.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 05, 2021, 02:33 AM »

little comparison and review

-Dormouse (April 04, 2021, 03:47 AM)

Preparing list:

Jutoh Storyboard
Writer's Cafe StoryLines
Writer's Cafe Pinboard
Scrivener Corkboard
Scapple
Write It Now Story Board
Write It Now Storyline Editor
DocxManager+Writage+Word
AeonTimeline 3
Draw.io; Bubbl.us (examples of diagram/mindmap approach)
Plottr (recommended by some, seems too rigid at first glance)
Notezilla
Pen and paper or digital pen and paper
Outlining
Spreadsheet
Mindomo - part done

I'll add others as they occur to me if I think they'll add a new dimension rather than extra detail.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 04, 2021, 03:47 AM »

I didn't probe the storyboard much, but diverted onto Writer's Cafe which has more of those features (eg pinboard)

-Dormouse (April 03, 2021, 04:43 AM)

The Writer's Cafe Storylines feature isn't exactly the same as the Jutoh storyboard. It looks the same but isn't set up the same. I think I will do a little comparison and review. And add in AeonTimeline 3 if that comes. With the Scrivener Corkboard and spreadsheets and anything else that comes to mind.

I keep sticking on one project. I'd like to give it up, but my brain refuses to leave it alone. 'Creative' features I think is a misnomer: they're as much about organisation and reorganisation as creation. And nothing flows when it needs to be redone. So it will be interesting to see if any of these help. I believe I already know that the Corkboard and spreadsheets approach won't work, but it's worth clarifying why. Not sure whether I should add outlining (specifically playing about with multiple outlines). The big difference between the Scrivener Corkboard and the Jutoh and Writer's Cafe features is that they have a tabular, columns and rows, construction which can be very helpful for organisation, where a freeform Corkboard is easier for creation. It might take me a while to work out how best to use it; there are chapters and scenes, and character arc examples with columns representing the book or time sequence, but I  assume others are possible.

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General Software Discussion / Re: Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 03, 2021, 04:43 AM »

I don't know what it is with the 3s. Just remembered that AeonTimeline 3 ought to be coming soon, though my promised invitation to the beta has still not arrived. I'm particularly looking forward to trying out the spreadsheet view in that.

I've now had a brief look at Jutoh. I noticed that some of the documentation advice references Amazon practices in 2013 and that the PDF of the guide splits some sentences across lines creating little groups of orphans. Doesn't inspire confidence in a program designed to make tidying and formatting easy. The program itself seems fine and functions clearly explained. 3 can be used with a 2 licence; the extra features can be turned for the session to allow users to try them out. Probably worth the upgrade for people who use it.

Not sure about the creative features added (storyboard etc) that originated in Writer's Cafe. Feels random and incomplete as it stands. Documentation implies that the whole writing process can be contained in Jutoh, but the editor feels insufficient to me. Possibly an indication of a direction of travel; possibly an acceptance that some people prefer to write with editors that have no creative or compiling/formatting features.

I didn't probe the storyboard much, but diverted onto Writer's Cafe which has more of those features (eg pinboard). I'm likely to have closer look at both, since I am one of those who prefer to write with editors that have no visual or creative features and they're something I miss often. I've tried many solutions but always drift away as I rediscover that the overall workflow is too rough.

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General Software Discussion / Jutoh 3, recently followed by the release of Scrivener 3 Windows from beta

« Last post by Dormouse on April 02, 2021, 08:40 AM »

I'd missed the fact that Jutohhas been upgraded from 2 to 3, with relatively frequent updates recently. Haven't had a chance to check it out yet, but noticed that it seems to incorporate the storyboard design from Writer's Cafe. In the back of my mind I'm harbouring the question of whether it could be used as a simple converter between a variety of formats that I use, which could save me a tad of aggravation if it does.

I had thought that Writer's Cafe had stopped development but there were updates in 2019. I'd also somehow grown the idea that Harriet Smart (the writer wife of the developer of Jutoh and Writer's Cafe) had stopped writing, but that's not true either. It does look as if Jutoh is being positioned as the primary program though, incorporating some features from WC.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 23, 2021, 09:24 PM »

I think a lot of this relates to the direction the developers want to take the application. I haven't seen any indication that they want to make it a general purpose application.

-wraith808 (March 23, 2021, 08:08 AM)

I'm not sure. I agree it's not their own intent, but they do follow users and are very open to almost anything being done with plugins and frequently consider extending the API to make some plugins possible. But how much can reasonably be done via plugins I have no idea.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 23, 2021, 09:19 PM »

1. Have Obsidian read .txt (and other plaintext) files as if markdown (apply markdown styling, and so on)
2. Have Obsidian read .txt as plain plaintext (no markdown styling)

The plugin does 1 AFAICT. But if this gets wings perhaps both 1 and 2 will get implemented, and maybe also a further feature
3. Have Obsidian read files with extension .NNN as some other, perhaps user customized plaintext format that differs from markdown. For example, AsciiDoc.

-Nod5 (March 23, 2021, 05:11 AM)

The plugin does 1, but only partially. It does 2 in the absence of any markdown in the file; up to a point. I'm not convinced that the holes in these will ever fully filled, but I see no chance of 3, although there must be a possibility that a plugin could be written to do this to some extent, maybe.

The plugin allows .txt to follow markdown styling. It allows links and transclusions, in .txt files. It doesn't allow .txt to be read natively or to be transcluded itself, and links to .txt files have to be typed out in full. Neither are tags in .txt recognised and nor do .txt files appear in graphs. Having hit these limits, I am now wondering how much use I will be able to make of it. For some things it will work fine, but not being able to be transcluded means that the technique of embedding chapters into a file to produce a complete MSS won't work. Of course, there's no difficulty in renaming them all at that point but working out which format to work in at each stage doesn't seem straightforward now; quite a collection of swings and roundabouts.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 22, 2021, 05:32 PM »

txt-as-md plugin

-Dormouse (March 19, 2021, 05:00 PM)

And have realised that for my workflow this is a game changer. I've always written text with formatting to be done later. I like doing all my reviewing and editing using colours, comments etc. All the programs that will do that are happy to work with .txt files (though they won't save such extras in a .txt file), which means that I can convert nearly all my .md files to .txt and gain the ability to use them all, with no loss of Obsidian features. If I have to save files for a while in an extra word processing format until edits are completed, it's only what I always have to do anyway, and this way there's no converting backwards and forwards to do. The plugin works in mobile too.
And all the files collected originally in .txt format can go straight in to the vault without conversion.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 19, 2021, 05:00 PM »

Also briefly tested the txt-as-md plugin on a test vault.
My interest was Obsidian commands rather than markdown,  but successfully inserted a transclusion into the txt file.
Will save a smidgen of time when exporting from Diarium and a heapfull if want simultaneous access from a program that won't read md.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 18, 2021, 06:31 PM »

The Obsidian Mobile app (ultra early, very limited access beta) was going to be for light input use only, according to the Trello roadmap, but afaics it's pretty full featured. Many minor glitches still but works with all the plugins, css etc. Many seem to be using it on production vaults, but I'm only peering at it occasionally through isolated test vaults. Doesn't require the use of the Obsidian Sync service at all; I'll avoid subscribing to that because, apart from the extra cost, it would just add another unnecessary layer of processes for me to understand and set up.

322

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 18, 2021, 06:21 PM »

I've started to combine a new editor with my VS Code workflow - Deepdwn (https://billiam.itch.io/deepdwn).

-wraith808 (March 13, 2021, 03:24 PM)

Looks quite nice, though I'm not sure I have a real use for another editor.
Not quite sure where I stand on YAML. I originally stuck a YAML section into Obsidian notes, for potential future use, but then deleted them all when they said that the YAML was being reserved for plugin use - would be beyond irritating to develop a use and then have it disrupted by plugins. That seems to have reversed and it's now used by some people, though I'm still not sure why I would need it. Easy enough to add should I want to.

I use Typora regularly because pasting excel cells produces a markdown table that I can copy and paste elsewhere. I don't know which other editors will do that, but don't have an incentive to look.
FWIW, if I paste the cells into Diarium,  I get a formatted table in an image file and the unformatted text in the body of the entry. I always ue Excel because I don't get the same response from Sheets - even when I paste the cells into Excel and then abstract them again. It all seems very odd to me, but I don't really need to understand why they work in this fashion.

323

General Software Discussion / Re: Copying internet pages with images on Android

« Last post by Dormouse on March 12, 2021, 05:00 PM »

I've found that one of the problems is that many pages are only copied with links to the images rather than the images themselves, which is no good to me. I think I will just save everything as an image - good enough for most uses and they can always be further processed if needed. And I'll stop using Evernote for data capture, which implies not really using it at all. Which is fine because I hate the new version.

324

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 12, 2021, 04:36 PM »

My journal has continued successfully, still informed by Virginia Woolf's practice. Once she'd got into the swing of it, she wrote her journal in the afternoon/evening with her serious writing in the morning. Journal entries varied: sometimes she used them to help develop new ideas and issues; sometimes she practiced styles; sometimes she recorded events, sometimes, observations, sometimes feelings; sometimes she analysed her beliefs and aims about writing. Gaps, of course, because of her illnesses and engagements that took all her time.

I'm not partitioning by time of day, but I am partitioning by entry and storage system. Continuing to use Diarium, even though Obsidian will become a practical option with the mobile versions. I can export the relevant entries from Diarium (as text) into Obsidian (rename as md). I| doubt the Obsidian option will ever be as slick, and I can already recognise the value of the different mindset when I'm writing the diary. If I didn't need mobile, I would probably just use The Journal but I do find Diarium very smooth. Effectively, it means that the journal is one path into my notes.

FWIW I'm also trialling Instapaper (potentially also comapring it with Pocket) and Readwise, again as part of the entry system. Also Readly. I'd never seen the value of Readwise which struck me as expensive, given that it is easy to find alternative ways of doing the same thing. But convenience has a value and one of the advantages it might bring is a greater use of highlighting and notes on everything rather than just where it will obviously be useful.

I'm aware that there have been one or two Obsidian updates that have resulted in (a tiny amount of) data loss (quickly addressed). And somewhat greater issues arising from plugins. Some reports of data loss seem most likely to be due to conflict with a user's sync system. For the moment, I don't use community plugins at all and I am exercising caution over what I use Obsidian for and making sure I have sufficient backups. (Ditto for the Diarium database.) My plan is to do a major review once the pace of development has slowed; I expect then to move back to heavier use, but with a clear idea of how to manage security and what limitations I should impose on use. So far it has moved from all data being in the vault folders, to adding jsons in User profiles, and then adding a database in the User profile; the databases aren't essential - they will be recreated from scratch if deleted, but there's no way I've seen to turn off the persistent storage automatically. It's moving too fast to be worth attempting such a review yet.

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General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« Last post by Dormouse on March 12, 2021, 03:47 PM »

The Obsidian mobile apps are out in a very limited access, bug-stomping beta. I'm avoiding it for now as I don't want to get sucked into a vortex which will give me no short-term gain.