Recent Posts

251

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 08, 2011, 02:37 PM »

Looks nice. I'm sure it could control another PC, the iPad can, so it's more a case of someone writing the software for it - which makes me just assume that you currently can't control a pc with it.

The touchscreen world is built upon the promise of what can be and then waiting for Apple to do it instead and then pretend they haven't - and then wait a few years to see if Apple are still doing it, then go out of business because no one bought your radicle touchscreen device.

I'm sure in a few years time tablets and touchscreens (and smart phones) will do everything you can imagine regarding pc interfaces.

252

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 08, 2011, 03:56 AM »

Warning: anyone thinking of buying a touchscreen should be prepared for wasting plenty of time rebooting, wiggling the USB cables, unplugging and reconnecting the USB cables, rebooting, banging head on keyboard, rebooting, banging touchscreen on desk, unplugging and reconnecting USB cables, holding mouse in front of face like a microphone and shouting "Just WORK" into it rather like John Cleese shouting at the dead parrot.

So, not only do touchscreens come with totally useless software, they are unreliable too. Fine when they eventually decide to recognise that they are plugged into a computer but until then they like to play dead.

No wonder people don't bother with all this crap. I'm amazed at how backward technology can be. Quote from Touchscreen pioneer "I've invented this brillliant touchscreen display - only one problem - it doesn't work."

253

Living Room / Re: Six Levels of Apple Fandom

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 04:58 PM »

What a load of wimps. If they really loved Apple so much they'd do the right thing and have the logo tattooed on their foreheads. Which would then work as a perfect sign meaning "do not waste time talking to me, I have nothing of value to say".

(As I type all this out on my iPad.)

254

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 04:48 PM »

Hmm, that's interesting about the specific group settings - as I never set them like that. Everything is meant to be using the global colours and position.

I'll keep checking things like that to see if there's a noticeable pattern to how I've caused it.

255

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 02:04 PM »

You know what. My moods may be dangerously erratic when it comes to working with this computer (and the problems I create for myself on it) BUT...

This touchscreen system is working  f a n t a s t i c a l l y  even in these early stages.

I'm swapping between different modes and features in Photoshop like it's all a natural part of the hardware and software. Adobe are going to wonder why they bothered making their iPad apps when they see what this can do.

256

Finished Programs / Re: DONE: On Screen Button That Sends Keyboard Commands

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 01:57 PM »

I guess a "lock" template feature would be nice too, i.e. force a "group" template to appear all the time regardless of whether its related program is in focus.

257

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 01:50 PM »

Just another quick "tip" for anyone else going down this route of getting a MIMO.

I've been saying how well it worked with the freeze/memory/lock mouse cursor thing when hitting a button. Well, I've just seen it not work.

This looks like it's a delay issue, so you have to give the system time to put the mouse cursor back to its original location. I think the delay must vary too.

Now, those of you with modern machines probably won't even notice and everything will work instantly - so, no problem for you.

258

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 01:40 PM »

I see. I've kept all files inside the same folder whilst editing and running them so that shouldn't be the cause of my troubles. Perhaps the default values where I've not specified something are doing things I wasn't expecting - I'll have to look.

I see I wasn't using the "Caption" correctly then.



One thing I'd like to point out that appears to be working very well is that the, original, "Restore cursor after button" feature provides a very nice "cosmetic" solution to MIMO's software failings.

MIMO's utility is correctly locking the mouse cursor on the main monitor when a buttons is hit on the touchscreen BUT it doesn't stop the cursor icon from appearing momentarily under your finger when you press the touchscreen.

BUT, using the "Restore cursor after button" of WinButtons at the same time, does prevent the mouse icon from appearing on the touchscreen.

In other words, a combination of both functions creates the mouse cursor movement and appearance you'd expect, i.e. you never see the cursor appear on the touchscreen.  

259

Finished Programs / Re: DONE: On Screen Button That Sends Keyboard Commands

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 01:26 PM »

I've not tried this, so apologies for being lazy, but can WinButtons send a command to the last active program, or does it do this by default.

I was planning in making a generic button layout that would act like the number keypad on a typical keyboard. For this to be of use it would have to be able to send the standard number keypad commands to a whole range of programs - to make that simple I'd assume it to be the last active window - excluding any program windows that are in the WinButtons "groups".

Extending this a little further, if a "group" related program was active and therefore its button template was active too, could this special group be overridden with a toggle button to then display the more "generic" number keypad button layout.

I'm unsure of how sophisticated WinButtons already is so this might be a feature already included, i.e. a toggle button template override kind of feature.

260

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 01:18 PM »

Okay, maybe I'm just not understanding what each feature is in the editor. What is the "Caption" for? I've renamed the buttons just using their "Name" - which makes sense and I probably should have not used "Captions" anyway.

The background color of the group appears to be working correctly now too. I've placed "#" inside {} which is being used with one of the hotkey commands, which now makes the button work correctly - but I wonder if this was, perhaps, making the editor go funny with the background color. I see that # is intepreted as Winkey by AutoIt unless it is used like {#} so I'm guess this could have been the problem.

261

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 12:52 PM »

I'm now using the previous version of WinButtonEdit (when "Restore cursor after button" was first included to it) and have just created a 4 x 3 button template.

All seemed find but on reopening the template inside WBE the "Photoshop" group I've created has lost all the button labels - and, the background has change to red for this group only.

As this is the first task I've done since extracting this version of WinButtons (today) it appears that the fault has been there all along. I'm going to proceed and put all the labels in again and hopefully they stick. I'll report back what happens...

edit:
I forgot to mention the odd bit about this: when running the related .wbuc as a live set of buttons, they labels appear, plus the background color is black, so all appears correct. So, somehow WBE isn't reading the contents of the .wbuc file when it is edited.

another edit:
I better just clarify what I said "labels" but in WBE these are the "Captions".

262

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 10:35 AM »

Okay, sounds good.

I think I'll create a new basic set of buttons to test things with until you've had chance to test everything out yourself with the touchscreen.

I'll email you the template I've been using until now.

263

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 08:10 AM »

One, thought and question: are the old .wbuc button templates compatible with the updates of WinButtonsEdit?

It's going to be a long process of having to recreate all the templates everytime if so.

264

Finished Programs / Re: DONE: On Screen Button That Sends Keyboard Commands

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 08:08 AM »

(Ath, I've posted in the other thread about problems with the update.)

265

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 07, 2011, 08:03 AM »

Sorry, Ath, the latest update doesn't appear to be working well at all.

The new cursor memory feature doesn't seem to make any difference regardless of the setting it's on, i.e. the mouse cursor always jumps onto the button that has been hit and doesn't move back to its original location.

There is also a strange layout problem. My Photoshop specific "group" of buttons now is offset to the left by about 200 pixels and the background is bright orange - it was black before the udpate.

There also seems to be a problem with the buttons remembering their label names, though, this was happening with the previous version too.

The cursor memory isn't something I think you should spend much time on to be honest, as the MIMO software takes care of all that and works everytime (it's just a bit inaccurate sometimes).

I'm going to keep working with the previous version of WBE for the moment.

edit:
An old problem, in that I've had it from the beginning, is getting the keyboard combinations to work correctly. Maybe this is a problem with AutoIt or it is likely just to be me not understanding the syntax properly. I wonder if this could also be creating problems for how WinButtons works, i.e. I have keyboard shortcuts that require characters like "#" and ";" which, I guess, could be confused by AutoIt's own interpretations.

266

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 01:39 PM »

Oh dear. This is going to take ages to try everything out.

I've now positioned the MIMO to the left of the keyboard and it seems like the right place for it, maybe it's just the novelty though.

I didn't want to do this originally because I'd put the keyboard's detachable number keypad on the left (this is what you can do with the MS Sidewinder keyboard). So, it didn't seem right to put the touchscreen on the left as well - it would be too far left.

But, I've removed the number keypad completely and put the touchscreen in its place. The touchscreen isn't lying flat (for reasons I mentioned above) but, on its stand, it looks and feels like it's at a good position and angle to use. Quite natural to take my left hand off the keyboard whilst typing and hit a button on the touchscreen - more natural than reaching to hit the touchscreen when it's behind the keyboard (in front of the main monitor).

The truth is I never used the Sidewinder's number keypad whilst it was on the left hand side. I was meant to be using it as a macro trigger keypad but could never remember which keys did which function, hence the reason for having a touchscreen to display what each key/button does.

I think I'll create a "generic" button template for WinButtons that will behave like a typical number keypad (with a few extra functions thrown in on the extra buttons). This can then act as the default button layout that displays when specific button groups aren't shown because their parent program doesn't have focus.

267

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 01:14 PM »

This is totally awesome, nudone.

-superboyac (September 06, 2011, 12:34 PM)

It will be (hopefully).


Just thought I'd better mention something I've just realised regarding lying the touchscreen flat, as jgpaiva and timns had wondered about.

It's not really going to be possible because of the USB connection being at the back of the screen. On the MIMO the socket is in the very center and on the MYMO it's not far off.

Maybe there are (mini) USB connectors that are 90 degrees to the cable, so you'd almost be able lie the screen flat but you'd have to provide some clearance for the connector - or angle it or something.

On the MIMO, the stand would have to be removed somehow too. It doesn't look like it's designed to separate to me.

268

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 09:36 AM »

I'm in the process of putting together the button templates, well, I've started on the Photoshop one.

If you've got a list of suggestions for which buttons and functions to use then I'll have a go at creating the templates. Or, I will provide the blank template that you can put your own icons into.

The basic template I'll upload later (this week). Which you could easily just insert text labels instead of icons on the buttons.

269

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 08:26 AM »

nudone: if that mouse thing isn't working reliably, I think it might be the kind of thing that AHK could easily do.

-jgpaiva (September 06, 2011, 08:16 AM)

Ath has implemented a feature in WinButtons to try and stop the mouse cursor jumping to the touchscreen. It works a lot of the time but it's not 100%. Hard to say at the moment how often it fails - it's sporadic.

Perhaps with tweaking he'll get it to work perfectly, if not, then it looks like a MIMO screen and their software is required, though, as I said, that isn't perfect either (it doesn't quite manage to hit the target so often places the cursor about 100px away from where it should be).

But, I have to say, the things I've seen you do with AutoHotKey (with DialogMove and GridMove) made me assume that "mouse cursor position memory" would be something achievable. Perhaps the 100% perfect is a little too much to ask for, I don't know how difficult these things are really.

270

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 07:32 AM »

Right. The MYMO is going back in the box and sent back to Amazon.

I thought I'd give it another try and see if I could make it respect the "don't move the mouse cursor" feature that comes with its own software control. It doesn't.

So, I thought maybe the MIMO software might work with the MYMO screen. It doesn't (and vice versa).

Maybe the MYMO would work on another computer setup. I assume it won't because of how poor these devices seem to be.

So, today's lesson is: don't by MYMO. (Which I'll have to mention in the Amazon review for this product.)

271

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 06, 2011, 06:48 AM »

I've now got a "mImo" touchscreen plugged in to my machine. Yesterday it was a "mYmo" touchscreen. Yep, I ordered another screen to see if there are any differences between the two brands.

At the moment I'm unsure which I prefer, though, it seems that the MIMO has more options and better help file.

Crucially, the MIMO has an option to reposition the mouse cursor to its original position before the touchscreen was pressed. In other words, the touchscreen doesn't steal the pointer away from where you really need it on your main screen(s); so the touchscreen behaves like a touchscreen ought to work (in my opinion). I've not tested this option out for more than a few trials; it isn't perfect, so it might be proof yet that these types of touchscreens are still made by people that never use them.

The MYMO is meant to have a similar "don't move the mouse cursor" option but it doesn't work. (I will try again later.)

And, interestingly, the MIMO comes with a "Toolbar" creator. You wouldn't know this without digging around in the help as it's only enabled via a command line switch. I thought this was going to be the solution to everything as it provides more options than WinButtons has - BUT it doesn't work (have touchscreen makers not learnt anything from all the touchscreen phones and tablets that have been around for years - seems they are all living in another universe, ignorant of what a touchscreen device can really do).

The problem is that it looks like you are creating a "Toolbar" in the configuration panel but it never becomes visible anywhere on the screen (not on any screen). The help file doesn't explain why this is, it reads like the Toolbar should be visible instantly - so, again, I have to say WinButtons is the only program that provides any kind of useful touchscreen options available today. I'm quite astounded that the makers of MIMO have got a custom "toolbar" editor, then hidden it away, and then it doesn't work even when you manage to find it - I'm so annoyed by this kind of idiocy I'm on almost tempted to send both touchscreens back today and forget about the whole thing. WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY RETARDED INDUSTRY.

272

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 05, 2011, 11:35 AM »

Ah, yes, I see.

Maybe I'll change the position of everything after I realise this isn't really the most efficient layout.

As for the improvements, they are only simple things that I'm confident Ath could implement without much trouble. Many are things we've all become used to over the years, like buttons changing their colour or "state" if they've been hit - but now I've thought about that I can see how that could be a problem in itself, unless everything worked 100% reliably.

273

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 05, 2011, 10:59 AM »

A few practical questions:
a) Which hand do you find more useful to use the touchscreen?
b) How about in terms of precision, do you find the touchscreen as accurate as the iPad, for example?
c) Have you tried placing it on the left of the keyboard, laying on the table?

-jgpaiva (September 05, 2011, 10:11 AM)

I've got a whole list of ideas that could "improve" WinButtons but I'll wait to reveal them until I've tested everything out with the current version.

Just to answer your questions though:

a) I use mouse in right hand, which means touchscreen seems better suited to left hand use. I'm using the touchscreen like a keyboard extension - so, it just seems right to keep my right hand on the mouse.

b) The touchscreen isn't as responsive as the iPad. But, my machine isn't exactly cutting edge; maybe when I get a faster pc things will be more responsive on the touchscreen. Note: there are several settings to adjust sensitivity on the touchscreen using the utility that came with it - not really looked into this yet.

c) I don't think I'll be putting it on the left of the keyboard as that means more distance for my eyes to travel, which is why I've put it under the main screen (and above the keyboard). I'm staring at the screen and don't look at my keyboard when I type, so putting the touchscreen as close to the main screen seems to be the right thing to do. timns said he wanted to try the touchscreen, flat on table, left of keyboard like you suggested. Which, makes me wonder is this a preference for people that don't touch-type (i.e. if you look at the keyboard whilst typing, maybe the touchscreen is better placed next to the keyboard).

As for drawing with the touchscreen, I wonder if there's some confusion as to what I'm using it for. I'll only be using the touchscreen as a glorified keyboard. I'll have different "key" or button layouts and sizes depending on which program I'm using. So, I'm not actually drawing on the touchscreen - I just prod the "keys" on it.

The amazing thing, for me, is that the buttons will have nice graphics on them to indicate what their functions are - which then means I don't need to remember keyboard shortcuts for all the different editing programs. To be useful, the whole touchscreen/button interface has to be as idiot friendly as possible. And that means nice big buttons/keys with nice graphics on them; things that are instantly recognisable when you glance at the screen for a fraction of a second. If the touchscreen was really, really, responsive you could even, probably, get away without having to look at the screen at all - then use it like a real keyboard extension - maybe this is possible even now if careful.

This is the beginning of the whole project though. There's really an entire universe of ways this could be used. Maybe Windows 10 will approach something like what I think WinButtons and a touchscreen can do.

274

Living Room / Re: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works

« Last post by nudone on September 05, 2011, 05:15 AM »

Unfortunately, I have some "real" work to do for a deadline this week, which means I won't be able to dedicate as much time as I'd like to this project. I'm sure I won't be able to resist keep testing new touchscreen operations out though.

Regarding the Optimus Maximus keyboard, DC member timns (Tim, of Head in the Clouds online comic fame), bought an Optimus keyboard and gave up using it as it was a terrible device to use for "serious" work. It looked nice, as you would expect, but for someone that needs a "work" keyboard, he had to stop using it as it was so annoying. Maybe I shouldn't have said that as he gave it away as a prize during the DC fundraiser. So, for light use, the Optimus looks pretty and will impress and I'm sure it serves it's purpose well for displaying "reminders" as graphic icons on the keys. But if you want to do a lot of typing - stick with a "real" keyboard.

I know timns was also very keen to try using a touchscreen - but he was waiting for me to be the guinea pig and risk buying something that may be useless; knowing that there wasn't any good software to use with one (there really isn't).

But, now we have WinButtons and it really does seem quite revolutionary to me at the moment.

(Ath will be able to join in the fun too but it looks like his touchscreen won't arrive until the end of this month; about 25 days away.)

275

Finished Programs / Re: DONE: On Screen Button That Sends Keyboard Commands

« Last post by nudone on September 05, 2011, 04:25 AM »

Ath, I've got the touchscreen setup up now. It works better than I could have hoped for. Because of it being a new "project" to talk about I've started a new thread here: https://www.donation....msg260706#msg260706

I'll get the touchscreen ordered for you later today. You are going to love it - it's revolutionary!