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1851
General Software Discussion / Re: Who should judge Win7's success?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 19, 2009, 09:14 PM »
Yeah, actually I do already use FreeCommander (but it's a recent switch so I still use the old multi-window approach a lot), and it has solved a lot of my Win7 file management issues. But that's just one part of the reason I use the taskbar the way I do, and having solved that one still leaves many others.

- Oshyan
1852
General Software Discussion / Re: Who should judge Win7's success?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 19, 2009, 01:07 PM »
I'm not against change and evolution, I just don't understand why it has to mean the end of the old way of doing things. Granted it's been around since Win2k now, but the fact that it survived from 2k, to XP, to Vista says something to me about the utility of that approach. I wonder how many people found it as functional as I.

One thing I find interesting is how many people who do like the new approach talk about "lack of clutter", etc. I for one don't care about this at all. My computer is functional not aesthetic, and I don't need it to be otherwise. I can deal with 100 icons on the desktop, 50 tabs in Firefox, and I like it that way. You're talking to a guy who has 2 rows of task bar on most of his computers. I'm also really annoyed by the inability to "re-open explorer windows on startup" in Win7 because I use the task bar as a "holding area" and almost like a reminder system in some sense (oh, this explorer folder was open because I had to work on that document). So the idea of collapsing, of trying to minimize icons on my taskbar or desktop, etc. is entirely counter intuitive and counter productive for me.

Anyway, again, bottom line is I don't object to new ideas, I just object to old ones being removed unless the new one fully encompasses them somehow. I feel like they could easily have made the new task bar paradigm flexible enough to accommodate my way of working... but they didn't.

As for using shortcuts to switch between the "first 5 apps", judging by my above comments on number of open apps, I'm sure you can see that wouldn't help much. ;) I appreciate the suggestion though.

- Oshyan
1853
General Software Discussion / Re: Who should judge Win7's success?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 17, 2009, 06:22 PM »
Things change. User interfaces are refined and usability is improved...if you give them a chance. There's a small amount of time with less productivity until you get used to the new way of doing things, but after you've learned the new way your productivity will have increased.
Is UI configuration and function an absolute in terms of productivity? Or is it a preference? I happen to think it is very much a preference. Different people work best in different ways. XP and Vista both gave users a choice as to how they wanted to work with the Start Menu and Task Bar. Win7 removes some of that. Is that progress? Depends on your perspective I guess.

There is nothing wrong with you liking the changes and feeling that, if you give them a try and get used to them, you'll probably like them. But what if someone (like me) has tried them, for quite a while (several months now), and still doesn't like this new way of working? Are they wrong, or is MS wrong for removing options? Did they need to remove options to enable some other new function, or was it just them wanting to move everyone into a more consistent way of working, for support reasons or whatever? It's certainly their perogative to do this, I'm not arguing that, but I don't agree that it is unquestionably an improvement.

But maybe I just haven't figured out exactly how to use it. Here's a question for you, maybe someone has a solution: Assuming there are benefits to spatial memory and association (e.g. the Start menu is always lower-left and you can quickly move your mouse there to activate it at any time), how do you maintain that with the pinned apps on the task bar when the pinned apps move as e.g. several windows of an app to the left of it in the task bar are opened (if merging of app windows is disabled as I prefer). This is especially problematic if you enable labels for task bar entries, as I also prefer. One of the reasons for having them on is I can glance at my task bar and get a quick idea of e.g. how many unread messages in my email, and lots of other info. Win Win7 I either have to have that turned on and lose spatial memory associations, making my work slower, or I have to turn it off and then hover over a task bar entry to get the info I could normally get just from glancing downward. This all seems like a step backward in the productivity of the UI to me. But again maybe I'm just using it wrong.

Ultimately the problem with major UI changes, no matter how innovative or apparently helpful, is that people have almost always created potentially complex ways of working with the old design and may find it very productive. At the very least they may have developed habits of working that are very much ingrained and, even if not optimal, are still very familiar and enable fast workflow. The same arguments came up around the new Ribbon UI in Office 2k7. Some people got used to it very quickly and loved it, many, many others simply haven't upgraded since they find it annoying and limiting. I think splitting their userbase like this is not necessarily the best idea either, when they could easily just provide an option for it.

- Oshyan
1854
Living Room / Re: Anybody else playing with Wave?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 11:11 PM »
Well, a couple of us are in there "Waving", heh. It's a bit confusing and hectic. People can see your typing *as* you type, so they see your typing speed, typos (before you correct them), etc. It's interesting. You can also have massive threaded conversations happening in realtime, so someone may be responding to a post way up above in the thread while you're responding to something else. Now it does mark things as unread, so you can find them, but to do that so far it seems like you have to "scrub" through the "wave" with the slider on the right. I don't see a "jump through unread messages/edits" thing. Also you can edit yours or anyone else's post (no way so far I see to mark something as not editable by others - needed feature IMO), but when you do edit, it just marks the post unread, it doesn't highlight what was edited which IMO would be helpful.

So far it's very interesting, but I really don't see a useful place for it in my workflow. It just seems too scattered, or at least too easily scattered. If you had disciplined, smart, fast people using it, they could use it effectively as a very powerful collaborative tool, but you'd really need a commonly agreed upon organizational approach, for one thing. Part of the value as well as the challenge of "Wave" IMO is that it doesn't enforce this so much. There are fewer "rules" than there are with email, chat, forum, etc.

One thing I know almost for certain: this will not catch on on a large scale if it stays like this. It's just far too scattering and hard to manage for most people. To say nothing of its practical utility in the workplace. Most people I know can hardly manage nonrealtime email communications, let alone this crazy multi-threaded thing...

- Oshyan
1855
Post New Requests Here / Re: IDEA: simple drawing or floor plan program
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 10:19 PM »
I use the OpenOffice drawing app for this kind of thing. Works great. You can work to scale and just drag out whatever shapes and sizes you need, change colors, outline things, etc, etc. There's also Sweet Home 3D (open source):
http://fileforum.bet...Home-3D/1225390503/1

- Oshyan
1856
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 06:01 PM »
Hmm, yes I suppose from your perspective you are faultless in your reasoning and I am foolish. Nevermind that if monitor sensors weren't a focus of your intention, one wonders why you spent so much time and energy arguing in their favor.

Looking back through what you have said, you've described the implementation in multiple ways, and I could as easily perceive that as "changing your argument", just as you have (incorrectly) with mine. All of the major points I made remain valid. The fingerprint issue is something you latched onto because it was easy to argue against as it didn't apply to your concept, but it was hardly a pillar in my argument.

I will say that I found your initial explanation of the idea confusing and that naturally my response was based on that early understanding. Whether the fault was mine or yours, one of misperception, or poor explanation, is irrelevant. The focus of my criticisms of the approach evolved as my understanding of your concept evolved, but it was not evasive and, as I said, all the essential elements of my criticisms remain valid.

I note with interest that no one else has jumped into this particular part of the discussion, whether in favor of you or I. Most likely nobody cares about it. Frankly I'm feeling the same way now. The reason I continue to respond is I find your communications rather rude and patronizing, and I'm not so happy to let that stand. But I suppose the only way to end it is to let it die. So this will be my last response. The world can judge me, and the validity of my points in this thread, as they may. ;)

- Oshyan
1857
Living Room / Re: Anybody else playing with Wave?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 03:57 PM »
Woohoo, just got my invite! Thanks rno2. :)

Deozaan, I'll try to look you up after my staff meeting, or later today.

- Oshyan
1858
General Software Discussion / Re: Who should judge Win7's success?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 03:52 PM »
Vista is a funny thing as far as like/dislike goes, or perhaps better to say, as far as the reported and/or perceived user experience goes. And it doesn't necessarily seem to have anything to do with computer expertise or even demand placed on the system, or hardware, or anything else.

Take me for example. I've been using computers for over 20 years. I've seriously used every version of Windows since 3.0 and DOS before that, of course. Windows 2000 was my favorite OS for a long time, and it took me a while to embrace XP, but eventually I did and now I love it. XP was going to be tough to beat for me, but I tried Vista with an open mind. Hated it. Nonetheless I bought it (for business reasons) and figured I might as well give it a real chance. So I used it for a year. Hated it. What was the problem? There are a lot, I'm not sure which order to go in. ;) I'll keep it short for now and elaborate if anyone is interested (probably not).

I think the main things were the new Windows Explorer was *less* usable and functional for the way I work (despite having some good ideas). The new search functionality also sucks in my opinion (I wrote a blog post partly about this and how to fix it in Win7). The new Taskbar and Start menu changes were not appealing to me (I always set XP to "Classic" mode and turn off taskbar grouping, and turn on Quicklaunch). UAC was also a major annoyance. As a savvy computer user I've seldom, if ever, had major security issues, so it was - for me - a solution in search of a problem, and really just turned into an annoyance. Fortunately I could turn it off, but Vista still bitched about that (Security Center warning). I've also never been an appreciator of flash and glitz, shiny, pretty UIs for the sake of just shiny and pretty (a shiny, pretty UI that improves *functionality* on the other hand is wonderful), and I felt like a lot of the "upgrade" in Vista was things like Aero and Glass, neither of which I needed or wanted. Last but not least, subjectively and objectively, by almost every measure, Vista was slower for me than XP, except in resume from sleep time (boot time was still slower than XP).

The biggest thing, which I did find odd considering all the new tech and optimizations, was that despite running it on a very nice (for the time) quad core with a healthy amount of RAM and a nice graphics card, Vista still felt sluggish and "chunky". It seldom crashed, yes, but it somehow often felt like it was going to crash, and I even feel like maybe my apps themselves were more prone to crash, or at least freeze, under Vista. Overall it just felt less polished, solid, and performant than XP.

Windows 7 fixes that last big problem pretty darn well, at least. The Explorer and Start issues are still there, not to mention the Taskbar is now *irrevocably* changed to something I don't like (did MS forget spatial memory is an important part of UI interaction?). But at least using Win7 *feels* nicer, faster, more solid. Win7 is what Vista should have been, and I'd have been happy to wait a couple more years for MS to get there, avoiding the entire Vista debacle entirely.

So anyway what I'm saying is I'm one of those people who hated Vista with, I feel, good reason, and I do like Win7 and consider it a worthwhile upgrade. Though I do wish MS charged less for it like Apple does. Fortunately one of my newer machines is apparently eligible for a free upgrade. :)

- Oshyan
1859
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 15, 2009, 12:41 PM »
Hmm. I can see this is going nowhere. We'll see which of our ideas ever sees support, much less realization, but I stand by my previous arguments.

In a funny coincidence I went to Best Buy a few days ago to buy a digital camera for a friend (10% off coupon made it worthwhile over online vendors who were out of stock anyway). While I was there I saw a fairly expensive "edge touch" picture frame where you used sensors on the edge of the screen to control the settings and UI. It was... awful. :D

- Oshyan
1860
Living Room / Re: Anybody else playing with Wave?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 10:47 PM »
Well if you're just passing 'em out, I'm certain I could get some good testing in on it! I'll even say hi to you. ;)

- Oshyan
1861
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 12:20 PM »

Neither the 9400M or the 9600M GT on the MacBook Pro are anywhere *near* "top end". The dell has a ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4670 which should be fairly decent - comparable at the least.

<snip />

ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD4650 graphics card with 1GB vRAM-great for games and movies

The 4670 is pretty comparable... until you look at the pixel pipelines.  the 9600 can pump more graphics through easily, despite being an earlier video card...

And you're basing that assertion on what, exactly? Here are some benchmarks
http://www.notebookc...mark-List.844.0.html
9600M:
3DMark01:26807   3DMark03:14889   3DMark05:9592         3DMark06:5063

4670:
3DMark01:24975   3DMark03:22295   3DMark05:12614   3DMark06:6842

The only test the 9600 excels at is a much older and simpler one (3D Mark 01). All the newer, more complex tests are dominated by the 4670.

and the macbook that I was looking at had a 7200 RPM hard drive... another significant upgrade.  Add to that the fact that you can switch graphics cards to increase battery life- I have that on my VAIO, and that was a pretty decent upgrade also...

The Dell config also had a 7200RPM HD, and it would be a very cheap upgrade in any case, hardly making up the difference in cost for any of the other configs. In fact I could have put a much faster and lower power using SSD in any of the configs I posted and still been below the Mac's cost.

- Oshyan
1862
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 11:58 AM »
Paul, I'm not entirely sure how to respond. Your concept of touching, or nearly touching the monitor for regular interaction just seems impractical to me. Why? Think about ergonomics: http://ergonomics.ab...computer_setup_2.htm Note that it says to place your monitor *at least* 20 inches from yourself. Now my arm is 25-26" to the tips of my fingers. My hand by itself, from wrist to the tip of my long middle finger is about 8 inches. So that means I'd be holding my arm out fully extended trying to manipulate things *all day long*. That's going to quickly get tiring, and develop into some kind of RSI quite soon, I'm sure.

Maybe your monitor is closer than mine (and closer than recommended), but if you're conforming to ergonomic guidelines then I don't see how your idea is functional. And certainly no one would want to build a fundamental interaction device for a computer that inherently defies guidelines for ergonomic computer setups.

But then I also have the feeling I'm not quite getting what your concept is...

As for precision, the Wii controller works as well as it does because it has sensors built-in. If you're talking about sensors on the side of your monitor that would work just like the pad in the original demo video, then yes obviously there could be that level of precision, but I thought you were talking about not actually having to touch it, something based on visual or proximity detection rather than touch. If that *is* the case then again accuracy is going to be an issue. If you're talking about physical touch, then the ergonomic issues above are clearly a significant challenge to the concept.

This may surprise you but the "Natal" video doesn't actually show very precise interaction. Try using that, or even the Wii interface, to precisely select a single word from a paragraph of text. That's the kind of UI interaction I deal with constantly on a daily basis, and anything that is going to replace my PC UI device has to be at least as good as the basic mouse in that regard.

- Oshyan
1863
General Software Discussion / Re: Who should judge Win7's success?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 01:55 AM »
"The market", of course. What other measure of success is there for a commercial software product? :D

And for my part I don't remember much early praise for Vista except from a vocal minority of Windows-lovers and apparent apologists, or people who just thought it was uncool to jump on the Vista bashing bandwagon. Win7 has been much different in that regard, at least from what I've seen.

- Oshyan
1864
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 01:52 AM »
Hmm, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. The idea of having to wave my hands around in the air to control anything in a precision way seems both inaccurate and tiring, and fingerprints are a real concern if you're actually touching the display surface (obviously not if you're talking about the edges, where you'd use the power button or carry it - I'm not objecting because I'm a clean freak). There is no precedent for such a UI being used for any precision purpose or as the general interface for a normal computer system, whereas the device I suggest is merely a potentially novel combination of existing and proven technologies.

- Oshyan
1865
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 01:43 AM »
That macbook does have a top end graphics card... what kind does that Dell Studio have?  I've priced the Dell vs the MacBook for what I was looking for... and the VAIO... and they all are within a few hundred of each other...

Neither the 9400M or the 9600M GT on the MacBook Pro are anywhere *near* "top end". The dell has a ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4670 which should be fairly decent - comparable at the least.

And here's the Sony VAIO version:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T9600 (2.80GHz)
Microsoft® Windows Vista® Home Premium 64-bit
4GB DDR2-SDRAM (DDR2-800, 2GBx2)
500GB SATA Hard Disk Drive [5400 rpm]
Blu-ray Disc™ playback/burning
ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD4650 graphics card with 1GB vRAM-great for games and movies
16.4" widescreen with XBRITE-FullHD™ LCD technology (1920x1080)
$1720

- Oshyan
1866
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 14, 2009, 12:58 AM »
I'm still waiting for them to get innovative with response in touch surfaces. There are cell phones that sort of buzz or vibrate when you click something, but that's really not what I mean. Something more like the sensation of physical resistance. Or hell, what about a flexible OLED over the top of a raisable clicky key set? The reason I'm talking about this is I don't think I could ever grow to love any keyboard without decent tactile feedback. But imagine if the keyboard keys were touch/pressure sensitive and could just recess themselves when not in use. You could use it like a regular touch keyboard for quick typing if you wanted, and the fully raise it with normal key response for "real typing". This would of course be very complicated and expensive without some significant innovation in materials, maybe "memory materials" or something, but it's the best I can think of as far as an "ideal" concept. Everything else is a compromise of where to put this or that piece - do I have this nifty big touch surface right in front of me and have to reach for the keyboard when I need it, or do I have the keyboard close and use a smaller touch surface off the right thus negating left-handed multi-touch, etc.

- Oshyan
1867
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 13, 2009, 11:03 PM »
Well, I think Mouser has already expressed some of my concerns. I like the idea of a better multi-touch interface close to hand, rather than the silly idea of trying to actually use your monitor which is A: too far away 90% of the time and B: you don't want fingerprints all over. However I think all the potential of the touch interface is wasted in this concept because it spends too much time and UI commands trying to improve on existing window management solutions when I honestly don't find the existing solutions to be that big a problem. I routinely have 10 or more apps/windows open, and many of these have tabs of their own inside (pspad text editor with tabs, Firefox, Chrome, IE all with tabs, etc.). So for me this concept video is trying to solve a problem I don't have with an intriguing interaction device that is ultimately wasted due to the misdirected UI changes.

- Oshyan
1868
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 13, 2009, 07:05 PM »
Innuendo, from what I hear Apple *is* often slow to respond to issues like this with appropriate patches. Why that is I'm not sure.

The price difference for Mac vs. PC really depends on the *specific* model you're looking at. You could say it's "not that big once you get to the high end", but as a blanket statement that's not necessarily true, particularly in the laptop area.

17" MacBook Pro
2.8Ghz Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM
500GB HD (5400RPM - $50 more for 7200)
$2500

Dell Studio 17
1.73/3.06Ghz Core i7 (quad core, should be faster than the C2D even at lower clock)
4GB RAM
500GB HD (7200RPM)
Blu-ray drive
$1700

Granted the Dell is 1.5lb heavier and has only 1600x900 rather than 1920x1080 display, but both are LED LCD, backlit keyboard, and the Dell has a faster single graphics card. Maybe not the clearest landslide in the world, but at $800 cheaper I could buy a second netbook for ultra portability if I wanted, and still come out ahead. This was also just the first reasonable comparison I saw. I'm sure if I looked at other Dell, HP, etc. models I could find something closer, and equally sure it would still be lower priced (and come with a longer standard warranty).

On the flip side, look at Dell's workstations vs. the Mac Pro prices and you'll see Apple tends to excel in this area as far as price goes. Many people buy Mac Pros for their workstation needs and then just install Windows on it since it's good hardware and comes at a surprisingly decent price for what you get (dual Nehalem Xeons). Just don't bother upgrading *anything* through Apple (e.g. memory, hard drive) as they'll charge you a boatload. Oh and I hope you don't want a top-end graphics card. ;)

- Oshyan
1869
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 13, 2009, 05:11 PM »
Hehe, great pic. But, I guess we're not going to get any more meaningful discussion out of this one? :D

- Oshyan
1870
General Software Discussion / Re: 10/GUI
« Last post by JavaJones on October 13, 2009, 05:01 PM »
Bah, this is all so primitive:
"Computer... Computer... (McCoy hands Scotty the mouse) Aye. Hello computer." -- Scotty, "Just use the keyboard." -- G'vnr Nichols, "Keyboard. How quaint." -- Scotty, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

- Oshyan
1871
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 12, 2009, 05:52 PM »
Darwin, I'm surprised you like the changes in Win7's file manager. I wrote a blog post about why I hate it. :D
http://oshyan.blogsp...indows-7-part-1.html

Of course my recommendation applies to almost any of the available Windows file manager replacements, it just happens that Free Commander is, well, free, and nicely capable. I've found a few things that don't work quite right on Win7 (drag and drop to apps for instance), but overall it's quite good.

- Oshyan
1872
General Software Discussion / Re: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change.
« Last post by JavaJones on October 12, 2009, 04:15 PM »
Wow, one of my favorite computer subjects and I've missed most of the discussion! :D

There really is way too much for me to reply to here, but I have a few random (really, truly, random) thoughts:

In response to someone earlier in the thread: graphics apps are actually seldom made on or for Mac anymore. There are far, far, FAR more graphics apps of all kinds available either Windows-exclusive, or cross-platform (e.g. Irfanview, XnView, Paint.net, Faststone, etc, etc.). The only apps really made for Macs now are Adobe and Apple's own, of course. Apple has purchased a few major developers (e.g. Finalcut devs) to make them platform-exclusive, but before that they were cross-platform.

I don't think the "Photoshop is made for and works better on Mac" argument holds up anymore, not for several versions at least. If I recall 64 bit CS4 was massively delayed on Mac this generation, a big signal right there. Apple does a lot of things wrong behind the scenes in the coder's world. If you've ever talked to someone coding for the Mac platform and just trying to get things done, you'd hear all about it. I know because I work for a company that makes a cross-platform graphics app, and some of Apple's decisions really defy belief.

In regards to businesses converting just because a generation of people become Mac users (which they aren't - Macs still have very much a minority of even consumer-level systems), that won't happen because - with the exception of small or niche businesses (e.g. graphics shops) - what businesses use isn't largely dictated by what their employees know and like, it's dictated by an IT department who will always be savvy with Windows or whatever platform best enables them to do their job, and it's also dictated by business software availability and support, which is still largely MS or at least Windows focused. Apple seems to ignore this market fairly consciously, too. They probably aren't all that interested in the low margin business market, and who can really blame them. People always talk about Apple reaching these new markets with apparently the mistaken assumption that all markets are necessarily worth owning, but Apple proves that being a minority player can still be extremely profitable. Apple puts in probably about 10% of the effort that MS does, and reaps 90% of the reward that MS does with a far larger market share.

As for why Apple keeps marketing the way they do, well of course the answer is *because it works*. What other reason is there to use marketing of any kind? If truthful marketing campaigns that showed actual users would garner more users, naturally that's what they'd use. But I think that in itself shows you that OS X *can't* be that much better, otherwise they would use those tactics. Even WWDC and other Apple events, where they *do* show stuff in action, are actually paid attention to by a relative minority of Mac users (let alone computer users overall), and they're not a primary marketing piece. If those demos were so good at selling Mac's features and stability, they'd be the ads, but they aren't. Instead we have smarmy Justin Long basically just standing by letting the PC screw everything up, and then casually, almost even reluctantly pointing out that Mac is the obvious, superior option.

Here's what's interesting about all this, and it's been at least touched on, if not fully discussed already: the only reason any of this works, the only reason the Mac platform has any kind of edge (and that edge certainly isn't in market share - 10% overall), is precisely *because* of its "underdog" status and the relatively small size of its market. Give it a 90% market share and
A: more users, more problems
B: to get there they'd have to lower prices and lower margins, which means less budget to do great design, possibly the need to shop out system construction to 3rd parties again and thus broadening hardware support requirements and lowering the reliability of the OS
C: bigger target for viruses and other malware
D: (and this is the one few consider) given what happened to Microsoft re: antitrust, and looking at how Apple is doing *way* worse things in this regard (forget just bundling a browser or media player, they bundle everything, plus *force* installation of apps you don't even want on your system, even if it's *not* a Mac), it would be shocking if Apple wouldn't be subject to the same kind of sanctions

What you have to ask yourself when considering Macs and where they will go is, has BMW become the most owned car in America? Will it ever? No and probably not. The only way that would ever happen is if BMW weren't a luxury manufacturer. They are defined by their market. Change the market, and you change the product, change the company, change everything. The same is true of Apple.

So do I see Apple running away with the business market or becoming a huge success in the true mainstream? Nope. Would I consider it as a platform for my own computing needs? Sure, as soon as they let me customize the UI more. That's my biggest complaint with the OS, honestly. Not even general customizability as that's actually fairly good if you're willing to dig into the commandline. There's a whole community of OS X hackers just like there are Windows hackers, people like us here who like tweaking and tuning to get the most out of the OS. You don't hear as much about them because OS X as a platform is supposed to "just work", but there are plenty of people who aren't satisfied with how it "just works" out of the box and work to make it "just work" in a different way. ;) The UI though is somewhat more rigid as I understand it, and that's a big part of what keeps me away. That and the lack of more system-level utils like better file managers, which someone else mentioned. But I still keep an eye on what they're doing and I hope that one day they do decide to offer a more "serious", "geek" line of systems and OS products, sort of an unlocked version of the Mac experience. But I doubt it - it'd be a big threat to their cash cow, and what sensible business would want to do that just to satisfy a minority of potential customers?

- Oshyan
1873
General Software Discussion / Re: how to open large html files
« Last post by JavaJones on October 09, 2009, 04:49 PM »
"In web view" e.g. as a web browser would view it? Ugh, good luck getting something to parse it that way. Maybe some kind of progressive rendering scheme would work (see Slashdot.org front page), but it'd take forever and probably bring most any browser to its knees.

- Oshyan
1874
General Software Discussion / Re: Choice of application installer?
« Last post by JavaJones on October 08, 2009, 04:04 PM »
I'm not a dev so I can't vouch for it, but don't forget NSIS - the Nullsoft Scriptable Install System: http://sourceforge.net/projects/nsis/
Open source.

- Oshyan
1875
Hah, I posted to the wrong thread, sorry.  :-[

- Oshyan
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