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Recent Posts

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151
Find And Run Robot / Re: CTRL+SPACE
« Last post by jdmarch on February 26, 2006, 05:17 PM »
OK, I've transferred all my keyboard macros to AutoHotKey. It is magnificent! The documentation, while extensive, is missing a few things for the newbie, but once I got past that I was bowled over. Very fine software. Thanks to DonationCoder for helping me find it!
152
Find And Run Robot / Re: CTRL+SPACE
« Last post by jdmarch on February 25, 2006, 04:24 PM »
Have you noticed how many DC participants like AutoHotKey for kb remapping?
link here  http://www.autohotkey.com/

I certainly have, and having looked at the website, I'm salivating over a chance to start using it. I have a considerable investment in existing macros in the superb but limited Winkey, and the powerful but buggy AimKeys, but AHK looks like it could easily replace both... and then some.
153
1. Updates (NB FARR/MR)
2. Reviews

 :Thmbsup:
154
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Tray Management Utilities Mini-Review
« Last post by jdmarch on February 18, 2006, 04:50 PM »
Another buglet: on my Win2K system, PSTF butchers the application icons which it puts in the tray, sometimes making them difficult to recognize. The application icons which it puts in its menu and dialog are fine.
155
Find And Run Robot / Re: CTRL+SPACE
« Last post by jdmarch on February 18, 2006, 02:43 PM »
rjbull, you might want to check out WinKey. Tiny (4+1 MB) little free app that permits remapping WinKey combinations. Thus Winkey+Left = minimize Winkey+Right = maximize. Can also be used to launch any app.

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,5506,00.asp
156
Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Tray Management Utilities Mini-Review
« Last post by jdmarch on February 18, 2006, 01:47 PM »
I'm sending the following comments to the author of PS Tray Factory. Perhaps it will be be of interest here as well.

PSTF is a big help. I just registered it a day or two ago, after trying several alternatives briefly, and then testing PSTF for 2 weeks, with increasing satisfaction. Then today I was browsing the superb donationcoder.com site and saw that PSTF got a very favorable review and is being discounted to members. Excellent! (No, I’m not asking for a retroactive discount; PSTF is well worth full price!)

I do have a few suggestions that would make it even more useful to me (I use Win2K SP4):

1. It's good that there are many keyboard shortcuts, but keyboard usability is still uneven. Here are some sample problems:

  1a. In the menu, pressing an alphanumeric key should move the selection to the next entry beginning with that character, as with any Windows-standard menu. It’s too laborious to traverse a long menu with just the arrow keys.

  1b. Pressing Enter in the PSTF menu often does nothing, so one must invoke the menu again, navigate to the application’s menu entry again, and this time press Shift+Enter. Very frustrating. The reason of course is that Enter is interpreted as double click, which many applications do not accept on the tray icon.

  At the VERY least, pressing Enter on the name of an application which was minimized to the Tray Factory menu should restore it to the desktop.

  For many tray-resident applications, the mapping of Enter to double-click is good. For others, the most useful mapping would be left click or right click. So it would be best if the Enter, Ctrl+Enter, and Shift+Enter keys in the menu could be remapped per-application.

  Without such mapping of Enter, I’ve mostly given up on using the keyboard with the PSTF menu, which for a mouse-challenged keyboard-centric user like me, is a sacrifice (and therefore a testament to how useful PSTF is overall!!).

  1c. You might consider supporting nested menus. These are very handy for traversing long menus by keyboard. But this is not urgent for me.

2. There seems to be a bug when an app which can only have one instance is minimized to the tray, and then restarted (e.g. using a non-PSTF hotkey, or by invoking it with DonationCoder’s ESSENTIAL utility Find And Run Robot). The app tries to restore itself but only partially succeeds. It appears in the Alt+Tab list but not on the taskbar. Its window remains completely invisible, but responds to menu keys (e.g. Alt+F drops down its file menu over the desktop. I know this is not necessary, as it does not happen with TrayIt! (a nice app which I used for many years, whose main job is minimizing to the tray; but which unfortunately does not neaten the tray as PSTF does).

The way I’m working around this is by giving each of the apps which I minimize to tray its own “Left Click” hot key, which I use for bringing it back from the tray. But I’d rather be able to use my normal method (launch hotkey or FARR) of launching or re-launching all apps.

3. It would help if one could specify that a given application is always to be minimized to the tray (or menu) instead of to the taskbar, without having to use the special "Minimize to Tray" hotkey or click. I know it's possible, as TrayIt! does this.

4. The Sort-Tray-Icons hot key does not seem to accomplish anything on my system. I’m probably mis-using it, but maybe more explanation in the docs would help.

5. It would help if the docs explained that explorer’s tray icons (e.g. Power, Volume, Unplug hardware) all stick together so cannot be separated when rearranging the menu. This frustrated me until I figured out what was going on.

6. Please show in the Tray Icon List, some indication of whether "Always show in menu" is checked.

157
Post New Requests Here / Re: DONE - Idea: Commandline Calculator (for Farr)
« Last post by jdmarch on February 18, 2006, 12:45 PM »
Wonderful!!! It's great that the expression is also copied to the clipboard (not only the result); this makes it trivial to repeat the calculation with a slight modification.

And I'm downloading FBSL right now!!
158
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 12:26 PM »
Amadawn, the keystroke count of your suggestion is the same as mine (both require pressing an escape key to move from launch-only mode to multiple-verb-choice mode, although actually ">" requires holding down the shift key).

But to me, the multiple-field model is more friendly, especially to newbies, than the single-command-line model.

First, the use of any special-purpose characters (e.g.">" here, or "|" in the results field of the group edit dialog) makes a command line look forbidding and potentially confusing.

Second, the visible presence of a default OPEN/LAUNCH/RUN verb, in the first entry field, provides a visual clue that other verbs are possible. And the number of available entry fields gives a clue as to the desired syntax (e.g. after OPEN, there is just one more visible field, but after FIND, there are at least 2 more visible fields, the exact number depending on subsequent choices). So, at least in theory, this model holds the hand of the inexperienced user without inconveniencing the experienced user.

I expect that most of us having this conversation are very comfortable with multi-part command lines, but I'm trying to think what would work better for others. Maybe I'm wrong about this: it would take some usability testing with inexperienced users to be sure.
159
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 10:21 AM »
While multiple verbs are not a top priority for me, I do think that they could eventually be very useful.

The number and function of entry fields, as well as the contents of the drop-down selection list, would vary depending on the preceding verbs or objects selected. So I agree with the proposal for an initial FIND verb followed by an arbitrary object, followed by an object-dependent secondary verb.
For example:
  FIND <taskname> KILL
  FIND <taskname> SWITCH
  FIND <file name> DELETE
  FIND <tunename> ENQUEUE

The first of these could be entered as
  <BREAK>
  <ESCAPE>
  F
  <ENTER> (or TAB #, or TAB arrow arrow arrow ENTER, etc, just as now)
  taskname
  K
  <ENTER>

This would also be useful after search modifier verbs, which restrict the object selection list, which in turn restricts the secondary verb selection list:
  MP3 <tunename> ENQUEUE
  TASK <taskname> KILL

160
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 10:19 AM »
Just to be clear: both the running task and the file would appear on the selection list. The running task would appear first, so pressing Enter would switch to it, but if the user wanted to launch a new instance (for programs which permit this), she could select and launch the file instead of the task.

I agree, there would be no reason not to support a SWITCH verb, which would be one of the wonderful universe of search modifier verbs, this one restricted only to running tasks.
161
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 09:59 AM »
I want to be able to switch to a task the same way that I would start one. After the (default) OPEN/RUN/LAUNCH verb, the selection list would show running tasks along with, but by default above, launchable files. So the following keystrokes would switch to firefox if it is running, else start it:
  BREAK - to invoke FARR/MR
  fire (or maybe ffx depending what you decide to do about noncontiguous search strings)
  ENTER
Since different tasks use different interfaces (single click, double-click, right-click-Open, right-click-Restore,...) to allow restoration from the system tray, some task-specific customizing of the task switching mechanism might be required.

In keeping with my interface proposal of last night, the following keystrokes would kill a running firefox task:
  BREAK - to invoke FARR/MR
  ESCAPE - to clear the initial verb entry field
  k
  ENTER - assuming that the KILL verb is the first one which matches "k"
  fire
  ENTER

162
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 01:04 AM »
Lots of great ideas in this thread, but for me, there are only 2 enhancements to FARR/MR which I'm really waiting anxiously for:

1. Switching to an already running task -- whether it's in the taskbar, or in the tray, or sequestered by a tray-manager utility -- using the same sort of partial matching methods as are used to launch files.

2. Mouser's "search modifiers" where an initial keyword alters the scoring rules.

These both seem like natural enhancements of FARR's existing strength. I'm dubious about everything else: good ideas in theory, but risking feature-itis for small productivity gains. I really don't expect to be doing file maintenance, or sending emails from FARR/MR, any time soon. And I don't need to kill tasks so often that I mind having to do it with task manager.  But task switching? I do it hundreds of times every day and it's wearing out my wrist tendons.

So I really hope that the early releases of FARR2/MR will not be delayed by trying to figure out the perfect universe of multiple verbs and complex subordinate clauses! For example, is it really important that the MP3 enqueue command be implemented as a 2-level verb rather than as a single verb "MP3enqueue", one of several easily found 1-level verbs which all begin with the characters "MP3"?
163
Find And Run Robot / Re: FARR version 2 - discuss the best way to handle 'actions'
« Last post by jdmarch on February 06, 2006, 01:02 AM »
How to distinguish between the 95% case (simple file launch), and the 5% case (search for verb then search for object), with minimum keystroke count for the 95% case, and without requiring that FARR/MR be a mind-reader because of ambiguities in the name space? What we want is the best of both worlds. We don't want the user to have to type a verb in the 95% case, but we always want the command to begin with a verb to keep the parsing clean. So...

When FARR opens (after the user presses the <BREAK> key) , the user entry line is pre-filled with the "OPEN" (or "LAUNCH" or "RUN" if you prefer) verb followed by a space, so the user starts typing the object immediately after this verb and everything works exactly as it does now.

But if, instead of typing following the OPEN verb -- if, rather, the user presses the <ESCAPE> key, then the OPEN verb is cleared from the user entry line and the user is presented with a FARR-style selection list of possible verbs (or search modifiers), filtered down as the user begins to type the desired verb. The first verb on the default list is still Launch, so if the user changes her mind and wants to do a simple launch after all, she can just press <ENTER> or <TAB><ENTER> and be back where she started, getting ready to type the object.

Also, I have been wavering about whether the verb and the object should be in the same input field or separate input fields. I now think that they should be in separate input fields on the same horizontal line, where the first field is strictly limited to defined verbs (and as just described is pre-filled with OPEN in the basic launch case).

Mouser, the command could still be typed sentence-like, so that when a space (or any whitespace terminator) is typed after the verb, then the cursor moves from the verb field to the object field. In contrast, the object field can contain spaces if desired (unless we're going to support nested verbs, which I have grave doubts about, see next post; but even that could be implemented as an extension of this model).

This also makes it easier to figure out how Enter and other selection keys (e.g. numbers) work. When we are choosing a verb, all the selection keys have the effect of finalizing the choice of a verb and moving the cursor to the object field. Whereas when we are choosing an object (whether the verb is OPEN or something else), they will finalize the command and set the desired action in motion.

To conclude with an example, to enter the command "KILL C:\MY DATA\MY FILE.TMP" the user would type:
  <BREAK><ESCAPE>K<ENTER>
At this point, the command says "KILL ". The user goes on to type:
  .TMP<TAB><7><ENTER>
(for example).

164
Find And Run Robot / Re: Another similar app (disclaimer: I haven't tried it)
« Last post by jdmarch on February 01, 2006, 05:35 AM »
score based on recency and on frequency.

That would be great!!
165
Find And Run Robot / Re: All these F+R ideas are wonderful
« Last post by jdmarch on January 31, 2006, 10:03 PM »
I'm another who sees no use for a launch bar, at least as I understand it.  FARR allows me *not* to construct custom hierarchies in my start menu as I did formerly. If I want some specific reminders, I can put them in a FARR alias group, the best of both worlds.

Just my 2 cents.
166
Find And Run Robot / Re: Mention of Find and Run Robot in www.downloadsquad.com!
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 08:24 PM »

Hey, what are the other 2?!? :)
[/quote]

Total Commander ghisler.com - I live in this app - Windows Explorer replacement.

Beyond Compare scootersoftware.com - don't use it quite as often since discovering Total Commander, but when I need it, it's still the best at what it does - file and folder comparison and synchronization.

The previous transformative utilities which I've been using for 20 years (though they are still being enhanced every year) and are still very useful, are the command processors (replacements for cmd.exe) from jpsoftware.com. Very powerful commands, incredible batch file capabilities.

I should also mention my two recent great loves: Clipmate clipmate.com and Roboform roboform.com

Of course Irfanview irfanview.com is superb.

These are all from small developers.
Every 2-4 years I come across a utility which is so good that it transforms my work style. I can think of three such utilities in the past decade; FARR is one of those 3.
167
Find And Run Robot / Re: Mention of Find and Run Robot in www.downloadsquad.com!
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:51 PM »
Every 2-4 years I come across a utility which is so good that it transforms my work style. I can think of three such utilities in the past decade; FARR is one of those 3.
168
Find And Run Robot / Re: Feature Request V2 — Task Control
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:48 PM »
I'm convinced, Angel. Right arrow is intuitive, does not require chording (multiple keys), and will be pleasing to Quicksilver fans.
169
Find And Run Robot / Re: Another similar app (disclaimer: I haven't tried it)
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:44 PM »
OK, I was a little curmudgeonly on that last post :)

I'm open to trying almost anything. When I get out of this time crunch I'll try your favorite skin, mouser.

And you're right, a configurable slowdown in the refresh rate might not be a bad thing at all.
170
Find And Run Robot / Re: What happened to the "Improve icon" on the ToDo list?
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:37 PM »
I like Mecury Runner, though it mostly loses name continuity with FARR. Or Mercury Robot. Or Mercury Runner Robot, or Mercury Robot Runner. Or Mercury Robot Launcher, although that sounds like some kind of NASA facility!
171
Find And Run Robot / Re: What happened to the "Improve icon" on the ToDo list?
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:32 PM »
---
172
Find And Run Robot / Re: Feature Request V2 — Task Control
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:24 PM »
I'm not worried about which keys, I'll trust you to choose the one which is most consistent with overall FARR design. Just as long as it's accessible with a small number of keystrokes :)
173
Find And Run Robot / Re: Feature Request V2 — Task Control
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 06:13 PM »
I'm not sure what this "arrow button" would be, but if it's a mouse-click button, then it's not keyboard-oriented enough for my workstyle. My proposal, while not command-centric, was totally keyboard centric. Press Ctrl+Enter and you're in a menu which you can navigate with arrow keys or by pressing a menu-specific accelerator key. Press Enter and the command is executed. Your hands never leave the keyboard.

OTOH, if we're talking about the right arrow key on the keyboard, then that sounds good to me.

Of course it should also have mouse support, just should not require a mouse.
174
Find And Run Robot / Re: Feature Request V2 — Task Control
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 05:13 PM »
Oops, finger slipped and I posted last msg accidentally; will clean up that previous post. But to continue, with reference also to mouser's latest:

How about this?: The user types the partial name of a running process, same as with application names. Presses Enter to open/switch/restore. Or presses Ctrl+Enter to see a menu of relevant actions for that process. User could also reach this menu via the right-click context menu on the desired process's listing in the FARR window.

With regard to tray icons:
If FARR was able to gain access to the commands in a tray-icon's popup menus (both left and right), then the FARR process menu (just proposed) could incorporate those app-specific commands. Or, if that's not feasible, FARR's Ctrl+Enter popup menu could include the following choices
 Open
 Left click
 Double click
 Right click
and FARR would send the corresponding message to the process.

I'm not at all opposed to your idea of using commands as well, especially for the most common operations (open, kill, minimize), but I think that menus could be easier for seldom-used or application-specific commands. Also I'm a little uneasy about intruding on the namespace of the first token in the FARR command line. Also, I would prefer the consistency of always beginning with the application name, as now. So rather than "kill TheBat", I would incline toward "TheBat kill".
175
Find And Run Robot / Re: Feature Request V2 — Task Control
« Last post by jdmarch on January 27, 2006, 04:44 PM »
I may be misunderstanding you, mouser, but I don't want to have to type "running" in order to switch to a running process. I want to type "F" and see a list which includes, at or toward the top, both the running instance of Firefox, and the start menu (or whatever) link to it.

From my perspective, by far the priority is easily being able to switch to / open / restore a running process. Any other functionality is gravy (albeit excellent gravy I'm sure!), and could be added later.

So the default (press Enter, or the #) would be to open/restore/show.

FYI, of the 15 programs presently in my system tray, 13 of them have popup menus that include Open, restore, or show. I don't know if FARR would have access to the contents of these menus without actually opening them.

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