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1251

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 12, 2010, 06:41 PM »

I currently have about 250K images, disorganized into some 4K folders that people lumped them into, taking over 100GB with more coming once in a while.  By and large they are JPEGs with a handful of GIFs and PNGs, no RAWs.

And last but not least, I want it to be FAST, both when indexing and when searching.

Does such application exist?

-zevel (April 11, 2010, 07:02 PM)

The answer should be yes, depending on precisely what you mean by FAST. Especially for indexing. And depending on what you want indexed and what else you want it to do. Complex changing of tags and hierarchies of tags could also take a while across a huge number of images if the tags are attached to the file rather than simply living in the database; with images most info is usually kept with the image so that tagging etc is independent of the program that created them - but it will have an impact on speed if you want to do a lot of complex changes.

There's nothing in your post to suggest that the program needs specific image cataloging abilities. Does that mean that a general cataloging program/database would be fine? Or is there something else you need it to do (such as read/index the EXIF)?

All the programs mentioned in this thread are specifically intended for photos and photographers. They are looking for a lot of specific features that you may or may not need - with an overhead in speed that you appear not to want - and permit changes of tagging structures, but do not expect that this will happen very often.

1252

General Software Discussion / Re: Helicon Filter won't work on my computer!

« Last post by Dormouse on April 12, 2010, 08:16 AM »

I guess I should just be patient and wait to see if my message ever gets posted on the Helicon forum, and if it does, whether it gets a reasonable response.

-cyberdiva (April 11, 2010, 08:40 PM)

Seems to have got an excellent response. And they'll hold the BdJ price for you until the problem is sorted. And they want you to try Focus out too.

1253

General Software Discussion / Re: Helicon Filter won't work on my computer!

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 08:17 PM »

Added note: I went to kill the process with Task Manager and saw to my surprise that there were TWO Helicon Filter.exe files actively running.  I can't imagine why. 

-cyberdiva (April 11, 2010, 03:35 PM)

Doesn't happen when it loads here.

1254

General Software Discussion / Re: Helicon Filter won't work on my computer!

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 08:10 PM »

Looks as if something is interfering between the flash screen showing and the full program loading. Not had that problem (currently on Vista laptop) so can't comment.

wrt tomorrow's offer, I'm struggling to see good immediate reasons for upgrading from the (now) free version apart from the soon to disappear (for a period anyway) discount. Comments indicate that a number of features haven't yet made it into 5 (they're promised before it leaves beta). The big gain, feature-wise, is supposed to be a mask so that changes can be made to selected parts of the image - but I haven't found it anywhere yet and the help files don't exist in v5 yet. Superficially at least, v5 looks remarkably similar to v4. Other feature upgrades are supposed to be coming soon now that the initial v5 is virtually complete.

Apparently it has required a major rewrite with structural changes to overcome limitations in the architecture of v4, which is why it has been over 2 years in development. I notice that there's a question at BdJ about why have an offer now when the old version is free and the new version is still in beta. I can't imagine it was really planned like that and suspect that they thought they'd have 5 launched before the BdJ date came up.

Have to congratulate them on making 4.93(2) and PhotoSafe free though.

1255

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 05:18 PM »

The HF forum thread with requests for the new version 5 (it dates back over 2 years) has a request for being able to use external plugins for noise removal.

The problem with any form of automatic noise removal is that it is too easy to smooth everything out to give a plasticky effect. Very tricky to retain all the detail and still take out the noise because a lot of what is removed is actually the detail. Noise removal is a feature, that imho receives far too much attention in reviews etc, possibly because it is an easy thing for techies to measure unlike things like colour tones etc. Like making pictures 'pop'; I'm always amazed at how many photos of natural scenes I see for sale which have been popped into garishness. These photo editing programs have a lot to answer for.

1256

Living Room / Re: two-monitors ergonomics

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 04:58 PM »

And if you have a chair that is set up to move with you, looking at the top of a two bank set is just a question of leaning back.

1257

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 12:32 PM »

The developers describe HF as being problem focussed.

And historically it has always mapped onto a traditional photog's processing workflow. IIRC, it can work as a Photoshop plugin. It certainly works quite well and I wouldn't want to put anyone off it. And I admit to being tempted by H Focus, if not its price.

Sagelight seems to be taking a very different approach to a UI (& workflow) and one I've not seen before (iirc). And I like the forum, which seems to have a very good and helpful atmosphere even though it is relatively recent. I can see it developing a really good community.

1258

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 11:07 AM »

And another thread from the Sagelight forums where Rob explains the Sagelight philosophy/workflow and even makes a comparison with Helicon Filter.

1259

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 10:08 AM »

There may be (many?) programs better than Helicon, but few  if any  as easy to use!

-Curt (April 11, 2010, 02:17 AM)

It all depends on what is meant by easy to use.

Experienced users who use progs daily find a smooth workflow and shortcuts easaiest.
Users who understand what they want to do find it easy if those things are easily seen.
People who don't really know what they want to do or what is possible need an environment they can play around in or a set of clear instructions.

The limited set of main buttons in the new HF beta includes Chromatic Aberration. How many novice camera users know what that is?

This comes from their webpage:-
Some of the most interesting and unique features are:

• Live preview of all brushes
  
• Haze compensation
  
• Spectral sensitivity controls
  
• Chromatic aberration filter
  
• Vignetting and barrel corrections

I'm not sure how many people will understand why they would be interested in all these. Or what to do with them.

Don't get me wrong, Helicon Filter is a perfectly good program. I've used it before. And they have other programs that people might find interesting, particularly Helicon Focus which does what it does probably better than anything else around at the moment, including Photoshop. And in some ways it is quite easy to use.

I just feel that the thread was moving away from Sagelight and giving the impression that HF is better. I hadn't even looked at Sagelight before seeing this thread and it seems to me to have a different sort of UI to most photo processing progs and possibly more accessible to a lot of people. I haven't spent a great deal of time looking at Sagelight et, or the HF beta, but at the moment, I'd describe them as different approaches to doing many of the same things. Sagelight probably being in a currently much faster state of development. Whichever suits you best, is the one for you to use.

And there are a lot of free programs out there that do a lot of basic things, and some advanced ones, pretty well too.

1260

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 09:16 AM »

I'm finding the Sagelight forums quite interesting.
Batch processing is coming soon (interesting post on some advantages/disadvantages of raw processing in batches HERE) and layers in v4

1261

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 11, 2010, 08:36 AM »

~ HF has noise reduction - cant find any in SL [I just found a 'Smooth Skin/Image' edit which = Noise Reduction, preview of effect doesnt allow you to zoom in though, so you cant really see effect unless you apply it...]

-tomos (April 08, 2010, 04:14 AM)

Discussion of Noise Reduction in Sagelight

And another

Even more discussion on 26th March in the BLOG

1262

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 10, 2010, 07:02 PM »

Remember that the value of batch processing depends on how much you want precisely the same settings applied to each photo.

If you shoot mostly RAW, then you will want to batch process them. But if you are doing that, then you might want to look at a number of other options. I use DxO which tests each lens/camera combination and calculates the corrections needed for each photo setting; that gives DxO much more controlled automatic processing for these parameters (at much greater cost too though). I'm not trying to suggest the use of DxO (or equivalent), but I am saying that HF should be compared with other raw processors if that is a substantial element of what you are interested in. But most people who shoot RAW are well into the advantages/disadvantages of various RAW processors already.

If you aren't interested in RAW, then you have to work out how much you really will want to apply all the same settings across a batch. Mostly, I suspect, if there's the same colour cast across a number of photos.

Looking at the other differences, HF (even in its latest beta) seems to me to be a much more traditional photo processor in approach and Sagelight appears to encourage more playing around. I wouldn't like to hazard any sort of guess or evaluation of which is 'best' without a lot more trying out, but I would say that I see them both as photo processors rather than image editors. I cannot really see how you can sensibly edit images without using layers.

1263

Found Deals and Discounts / Re: Sagelight Image Editor - pay what you want promo (Apil 2010)

« Last post by Dormouse on April 10, 2010, 11:53 AM »

I am happy with my six dollar Sagelight :-) but after trialing Helicon Filter 5 I am certainly going to take the offer on Monday, as well. What an easy way to make fine pictures!  

-Curt (April 10, 2010, 05:41 AM)

Interesting range of licenses.
On the HF website, they have a 12 month license for $20 and an unlimited lifetime license for $75.
The 50% off BdJ offer ($37.50) gives you free upgrades until the next major version. That might, of course, mean a lifetime

1264

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 07, 2010, 12:20 PM »

PM allows you to add tags to the photo itself as well as to a sidecar

-Dormouse (April 06, 2010, 05:16 PM)

Is one of these preferable?

-tomos (April 07, 2010, 03:36 AM)

Now that's a question. Much debate on the issue. It's generally felt that sidecars are safer, but it really all depends. And what it depends on may be something you don't know because it is in the future.

There's a sticky thread on this issue in the IDI forums.

-Dormouse (April 07, 2010, 09:25 AM)

Dormouse, I am accustomed to clear and concise answers from you - and now this "...riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." (To quote Churchill).      

Jim

-J-Mac (April 07, 2010, 11:45 AM)

Oh dear 
I was hoping that what clarity is available would emerge when people read the sticky thread I referred to.

To try and explain it myself:-
If people continue to use the hardware and software that they have now, it makes little difference which choice they make. But hardware manufacturers can change the RAW formats at will - and they do, to store info from new camera features or because they have thought of a way of squeezing more info from the data from the sensor and update the firmware on current cameras. They will update their own software - but that software may then not read extra info that has been recorded within the RAW file by other programs and may not read RAW files that have extra info at all. So sidecars can be thought of as safer as the original RAW file is still there. Other people like everything to be in the file so that they need not be dependent upon databases or programs that will be able to read the sidecar (though sidecars are pretty much a standard anyway).

One critical issue with all catalog programs that you will put a lot of work into is security against future changes because you can easily export/import the data. And that is the underlying issue here.

1265

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 07, 2010, 09:29 AM »

A browser, sorter, tagger is like a file explorer taking in details of all the files, allowing you to browse them and add tags, ratings etc.

-Dormouse (April 06, 2010, 05:16 PM)

that's a good description of Exif Pro then
(but I'm not sure of it's RAW capabilities)

-tomos (April 07, 2010, 03:36 AM)

Exif Pro is only just moving on to working with some RAW files. I've never used it myself. And it doesn't have the reputation for workflow speed that PM has. But then it doesn't have the price either.

1266

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 07, 2010, 09:25 AM »

PM allows you to add tags to the photo itself as well as to a sidecar

-Dormouse (April 06, 2010, 05:16 PM)

Is one of these preferable?

-tomos (April 07, 2010, 03:36 AM)

Now that's a question. Much debate on the issue. It's generally felt that sidecars are safer, but it really all depends. And what it depends on may be something you don't know because it is in the future.

There's a sticky thread on this issue in the IDI forums.

1267

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 07, 2010, 09:15 AM »

The big advantage of PM is speed. It can process RAW files at high speed which is a critically important feature for a lot of professional photogs who need who need to get their photos on the market or with their customer ASAP. It isn't really a RAW converter in that it doesn't produce the best images, but it reads and processes raw files so that they are easy to sort, tag etc. Scripts for automatically appending copyright notices etc etc. Amateurs with a lot of photos can value this speed too.

It is also fast with other types of format. RAW just matters most because the file sizes are much bigger & take more processing and professionals prefer to shoot in RAW.

1268

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 06, 2010, 05:16 PM »

I'm confused.
What's the difference between a browser+sorter+tagger and a cataloger?

-zevel (April 06, 2010, 04:54 PM)

A cataloger stores details of all your photos, allowing very fast searches, allows you to keep lots of different virtual collections, keep track of different versions of the same thing.

A browser, sorter, tagger is like a file explorer taking in details of all the files, allowing you to browse them and add tags, ratings etc. It allows you to sort them rapidly, so that you can decide what to keep or not etc. PM allows you to add tags to the photo itself as well as to a sidecar (not many progs did that at the beginning though a number do now). Most cataloging products allow you to do all of these as well as being catalogers, but they won't (usually at least) be so fast.

You need to realise that this market is full of very, very specialised programs mostly at high prices. Adobe Bridge is another example of the same sort of product. Some progs specialise purely in downloading images from cards and cameras (eg Breeze Downloader).

1269

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 06, 2010, 04:48 PM »

If you are going to look at PM, you need to be very clear about what it is.

It is a browser, sorter, tagger - and it is fast.

But it isn't a raw converter, an image editor or a cataloger.

1270

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 05, 2010, 01:05 PM »

I don't know what I'd use for organization.  That's why i'm following this thread.  I'm not a big photo user, so i don't have a lot of pictures.  But if I did, I don't know what program I'd use.  Tagging, cataloging, etc.  I don't do any of that.  My photos are organized just by folders and files.  I'm actually amazed that nobody has recommended a clear cut favorite in this thread...it's been a while!

-superboyac (April 05, 2010, 08:55 AM)

There cannot be a clear cut favorite. It depends on your own needs and preferences.

My advice for this sort of program is always twofold.
1. Only use programs where you can easily export the data you have worked on to use in a different program.
2. Try programs that have the features you need. Buy/use the one that suits you best. Do not get sucked into buying programs at a degree of complexity that is greater than your need. You will spend time learning them, you will find them confusing and difficult to use, and you will have to spend lots of time relearning them because you won't be using them often enough to retain familiarity.

This is all just bringing back bad memories and reminds me about WHY I dumped the whole "organization" idea in the first place and just use DOpus 9...

-Darwin (April 05, 2010, 09:27 AM)

Nothing wrong with using DOpus. The main reason I originally chose it against the competition was that I thought its use in working with images was much better. And I still use it for lots of (simple) image management processes.

1271

Living Room / Re: Should I swtich from w7 32 bit to w7 64 bit?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 05, 2010, 12:38 PM »

Crucial (good RAM brand)

Not only a great RAM brand, but the only manufacturer whose RAM modules are 100% made in the U.S.A.

-Innuendo (April 04, 2010, 07:18 PM)

They do have plants all round the world. But the only manufacturer of RAM in the USA.

1272

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 04, 2010, 02:47 PM »

Doesn’t mention any problems in IDimager though.

-J-Mac (April 04, 2010, 01:21 PM)

No. It's just I'm not clear whether it is a specific problem in your IDI installation, or whether something is getting it so bogged down that it doesn't finish everything. I can't really see that it will just be down to your graphics card or settings, otherwise I'd've expected more people recognising the problem.

1273

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 04, 2010, 12:54 PM »

I haven't seen huge amounts of discussion about nVidia cards in the IDI forums, but I did see this post (quite old now).

1274

General Software Discussion / Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer?

« Last post by Dormouse on April 04, 2010, 05:10 AM »

I'll send in another support request and see if I get any reply this time...

-J-Mac (April 02, 2010, 10:17 PM)

I would really like to get a response from the developer before trying anything. I would think that he would want to get some info from me first, like logs, settings, etc. for diagnostic purposes. That is if he is interested in helping at all - which I am starting to doubt unfortunately.

-J-Mac (April 04, 2010, 02:24 AM)

Sorry, I thought I had already written and said this, but cannot find it in the thread. 

Here are Hert's most recent posts on the IDI Forum. You'll see that they are generally helpful and aimed at finding solutions. His last visit had been 22nd March (but I notice that he's just visited on 3rd April, but not posted). I would imagine that he might be back after Easter, and that you will get a response then.

1275

Living Room / Re: First iPad Reviews Are In

« Last post by Dormouse on April 03, 2010, 10:13 AM »

Skiff Slate

-Darwin (April 03, 2010, 10:07 AM)

Still, neither really very portable.
Ebook readers can be put in pockets (just, depending on pockets) - and that's the size I'd be looking for.