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1201

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 17, 2009, 12:28 AM »

Forgive me if this seems like I'm replying just for the sake of a reply. I think I kind of lost track with the topic.

I think I'm still just focused on gaining others' perspective but as with SKesselman's post, I fear I might also be falling into being critical of your views.

Should you be thinking about Item 2 while doing Item 1, especially if they are unrelated? How do you keep from seeing Item 2 when you are looking at Item 1? What if Item 2 is something you don't want to do, and since you see it on the list you know it is next and it makes you not want to finish Item 1?

Yeah, most of the time, I find the effective method would be to have it detached.

Still...depending on the program nowadays, there's lots of unique quirks to bypass this.

Let's use a popular program like Remember the Milk for example. To isolate a task, you just do a search for that task and that will be the only entry that appears.

It's not so much a problem of the list as the lack of innovative designs.

Even with paper, you can apply a folding mechanism to hide each task by level.

Lists are up and down. They have a top, bottom, and middle. There is no left and right, four corners and center. You can only move an item up or down; add, edit, or remove; or move it to another list.

Actually this is why some people use Mindmanager and other fishbone applications to bypass this. (I do consider them lists. The concept basically just moves your list left to right instead of up and down.)

I find them highly annoying though. I still much prefer the six corners feel of Compendium. (Even if it's not ideal as a pure to-do list)

But you're right, that's why I hate most lists.

On the flip side, that's why I also use XP's way of viewing in tiles or icons combined with .txt files.

It achieves the same effect of four corners while still allowing you to click inside the .txt if you want a list of sub-tasks.

Todo lists in particular... There is no room for thoughts, feelings, rhetorical questions...just tasks to do.

Again, this depends on the particular software design.

I agree most to-dos omit these.

RTM and Toodledo has notes though. GoNutShell in particular nearly captured it ideally if only it was a software instead of an online app.

The design is literally one half notepad/one half to-do list in 2-pane form.

Unfortunately the notepad is static.

That is, it doesn't matter what list you move away from, your notepad contents stay the same.

It can pop up by itself, so you only see Item 1. Since you don't see Item 2, you don't think about Item 2 while doing Item 1. Your thoughts and feelings about Item 2 will not interfere with Item 1.

True.

Just to provide a devil's advocate opinion, the problem with software sticky notes though is that you have to set this behaviour up and you still have to be a master of reminders. (or at least pop-ups)

The end result being no different than self-e-mail reminder services minus the e-mail component.

Of course there are other specific features Notezilla has that makes it a better fit for these kinds of necessities but there are some people like me that are just as bad with reminders as we are with lists.

With lists, it can just feel much easier to put an entry inside but difficult to extract. Vice versa for sticky notes programs if set up ideally.

(I know...I know...your system's not for everyone, I'm just being a devil's advocate :p)

Memoboards have a top, bottom, left, right, center. There is room for notes containing your thoughts, feelings, other ideas, comments, etc. You can move items around with more flexibility, grouping is much easier, you can even stack items on top of another.

Yeah, I hope more developers design with memoboards in mind.

I'm not sure I tried Notezilla's but when I tried a software sticky note once, my main problem was that it was kind of confusing to set it up to a memoboard.

I just kept jumping between sticky notes - memoboard - tabs back and forth out of fear that I might've missed putting an entry to another entry and vice versa.

It still had potential but it relied too much on knowing exactly how to configure the notes so that if you want an overview, you got an overview and if you want a single note, you got a single note and when you want to schedule something, you know exactly what range you want to schedule it.

In the long run, I just felt I was having the same problems as when I was being overloaded with lists.

At a certain point, all the sticky notes despite the different coloring tend to start looking the same and then it's like I'm back on a list trying to squint at where the sticky note I put the suggestions in and where are the sticky note I made a reminder of and where are the notes that deal with the mundane tasks and where are the notes that deal with the large tasks within a project.

I guess what I'm trying to hint as is despite the fact that lists lose alot to sticky notes, sticky notes can just as become inflexible, less powerful and incomplete if you can't quite "get" what the big picture model is about.

Individual notes are like pieces of a puzzle, to be examined and fit into place. You can easily switch focus from an individual piece to the big picture. The master memoboard is your life.

Yeah, this is what I like about detachable pieces.

Similarly this is why I prefer different applications to handle different tasks even if they are tasks related to the same project.

It's kind of just like using multiple browsers. At a certain point, any annoyance I have with one, I can temporarily off-set with another if I don't know how to fix it.

I will borrow a concept from you though. What do you think of this?

The Master Brain of Doom

There seems to be this idea among the "productivity gurus" that you can't be productive without everything being on some sort of separate brain.

I spent too much of my time trying to figure out how to make these tasks grouped together in one place, fighting against myself, trying to figure out how to "fix" my brain so these tasks would combine as a separate piece of my mind. It's just not going to happen. If this one location falls, I'd be left with less of a brain.

I know you do have a master memoboard, but still I'm curious to hear what you think of this.

This is not a list. While it can contain a list, it in itself is not one. Here is a screenshot that will answer most of your questions. It is from my older software that I was using before I started using Notezilla, because I haven't moved it all over yet.

Nah, you posted a screenshot similar to that before. Remember the sticky note thread where you recommended using 3m's Digital Post-its before you switched to Notezilla?

That was the post that made me think seriously of software post-its.

1202

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Warning: Time is the single biggest cause of stress in our western culture

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 16, 2009, 11:52 AM »

Damn, all your replies went over my head except Innuendo's so I'll just share the subtitle from the movie I'm currently watching (Brighter Summer Day)

"Remember... things with a hole in the middle bring headaches"

Hope that helps with the ex-wives.

1203

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 16, 2009, 11:44 AM »

Haha, yeah, I definitely can't eat more than one of that either.

To be honest, baked potatoes aren't really that popular over here. (or at least not well known enough that you can randomly walk by them)

Yours is probably the largest baked potato I've ever seen.

...and hey, with respect to the person who wrote that idea, a big ass chip is still less than a bag of chips (well...almost)

There seems to be this idea among the "productivity gurus" that you can't be productive without everything being on some sort of list.

It's not so much that everything has to be on a list.

For ex. mouser's index cards are based on the same principle as putting the top priority items above everything else on the list.

...except it's modified for a label printer which is why it's much easier to print it one task at a time as opposed to writing down sets of items per index card or just pasting sticky notes on to the index cards themselves.

Yet as similar as it sounds based on how you described your system, yours is based around avoiding lists.

That's what's interesting to inquire about your concept of a To-do list of Doom. If anything, in application, yours come much closer to SKesselman's concept which I feel is also much better than a To-do list.

No offense to mouser, I'm sure his productivity habits would be interesting to ask about but it's much rarer to find someone who's training to reject as you said, something as close to dogma in the productivity world as a to-do list.

It's just interesting to ask what is going through your mind whenever you accidentally fall back on to a list or are forced to use one ...or where do you draw the limits between a list and not a list (Notezilla being a sticky app being still a model close to what a list is especially when you use it in a certain way) ...or finally, how do you sort your projects if they aren't in an outline or a check list? ...and how do you adjust when you have to enter a task in mid-project?

With regards to the gurus,

I find that alot of productivity gurus tend to ride on each other's backs while hoping to develop their own core audience. They are after all, still about selling the system or to paraphrase one of the anecdotes I quoted in another thread: "How does one make money off of sharing productivity tips?"

That's why advertising a certain product aside, alot of successful gurus keep it safe by addressing what their audience would most likely be familiar and drawn to: to-do lists, Outlook/e-mails and reminder systems (although the latter is more based around calendars rather than sticky notes because it doesn't have a large base yet)

At least that's how I see it generally.

It really is as much the fault of the community as the gurus.

They're just taking advantage of what people commonly expect so that they can reel in the biggest audience + sell the system in the safest manner. (Almost no one will go against the idea that lists don't work.)

That's also why your concept of hating on todos kind of peaked my interest. (Well, almost all GOE posts peak my interest but still...)

1204

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 16, 2009, 04:16 AM »

Oh! ...I think I get it.

The screenshot and the topic title kind of threw me off. Not really sure you should change it but just a heads up.

I think the potato analogy needs to be changed though.

For one thing, the reason you eat handfuls of potatoes is because it's in a set. It's just as possible to do this with baked potatoes, see:



Similarly this is why there was once a suggestion of a one potato chip for sale. The idea was that as soon as you open the packaging, you would see only one potato chip and you would be satisfied and wouldn't want to eat more.

With regards to the noise, I was specifically wondering what your personal alarms sounds like. Alot of these default sounds can be boring while others can be so annoying they're literally the same as watching screamers.

Finally with regards to your problem, the thing that would confuse me is why you would have a list of todos "that's doomed".

It kind of doesn't make sense. Seems much easier to not put in the task in the first place or segment those lists further so you can just delete the unnecessary fat and bloat in those list.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing but the reason I made the word "Parking Lot tools" was precisely as you said, it seems there were certain tasks that keep your other tasks from being isolated and focused on.

With your metaphor, it seems like you've put yourself in a never-ending battle to retain those lists instead of salvaging them or starting from scratch.

This is less so much a criticism but as an inquiry into what you hope you would do with such a list once you have settled on the criteria that all lists are To do Lists of Doom.

1205

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 16, 2009, 12:00 AM »

Thanks. I agree with alot of what you said.

Yeah PopUp Wisdom doesn't work that way that's why I have ReminderFox for that but I can understand what you mean by having it all in one application.

So just to clarify, To-do list of Doom is going to be a plugin for Notezilla?

With regards to the opening of webpages in specific times, which application do you use for it? Also Notezilla?

Finally what kind of noise do you often use? I'm just curious. This is the one aspect that just seem like it still follows the alarm annoyance model.

1206

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Warning: Time is the single biggest cause of stress in our western culture

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 11:12 PM »

Source: http://www.entrepren...m/435/reduce-stress/

It’s amazing how much value we give it, how much influence it has on us and how it, or a lack of it, makes us sick.

Deadlines at work, during studies and in our social lives make life rushed. You feel as if you are running from place to place, meeting one deadline just to start work on meeting the next. During the worst times you feel as if you no longer have control over your own life, you forget why you created the deadlines in the first place and just work as fast as you can like a mindless automaton. You are always busy and if you are not you start to feel guilty. There has to be something wrong with that.

Then of course you look at the big picture and once again we seem to be rushing to achieve certain goals before we are 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 65 years old. Am I the only one who finds it funny that we count down our lives using a numerical system that just seems designed to make us feel like we are useless, out of date and underachieving? I’m constantly trying to forget my birthday so I can just be Yaro rather than a 26, nearly 27 year old male who should be earning so much money now and doing certain things because society says I should (and my peer group are too). It’s hard to forget how old you are though because you get presents on your birthday.

1207

General Software Discussion / Re: Do you touch-type or hunt-and-peck?

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 11:09 PM »

skwire: true, but see this: the more they type, the better people get at touch-typing.

-jgpaiva (September 14, 2009, 09:52 AM)

No, the more hunt-and-peckers type, the better they get at hunt-and-pecking. They'll never become touchtypers without a concerted effort.

Typing was one of the most valuable classes I took in high school, and has helped me considerably through my career.

If you ever saw my handwriting, you'd be glad that I type everything. But so am I -- I can type much faster than anyone can write longhand, or h&p.  I am much more efficient this way.

On the downside, I'm almost completely incapable of using nonstandard keyboards, either with odd keyplacement (who decided to move the home/end keys?!) or in sizing. Notebook computers give me fits.

-CWuestefeld (September 15, 2009, 11:41 AM)

No. I started out as a hunt and pecker and then one day just unconsciously became a pseudo-touch typist.

I'm not saying it's a case of practicing though. It's just that the more you need to utilize a program, the more you just "get" the convenience.

I started similarly with Remember the Milk's keyboard shortcut.

I hated it, hated it, hated it until one day I just need to put in a task and I found it so annoying and then when I was looking for a replacement online to-do list, I just "got" RTM's system even if ironically enough, when I tried Todoist, I just couldn't get settled on using their keyboard shortcut settings despite it being only the second time I used RTM.

1208

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 10:40 PM »

Sorry, app. Yeah I did misinterpret.

Tbh, that sounds complicated. Could you share how it would be different from putting a task on a different list or putting it on a separate reminder system?

For example, I often don't put deadlines on my tasks but when that occasional deadline item comes, I separate it from my productivity apps and put it in ReminderFox. (which I never use at all except for tasks needing reminders.)

Similarly, if I need a constant reminder of a someday item with no specific deadline, I would put it in PopUp Wisdom.

Finally, wouldn't a portable reminder system or a separate piece of paper actually be more accessible if you just want to isolate it?

1209

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Fundamentals of Productivity: Think!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 10:24 PM »

Mucho apologies Paul!
I missed (or read but glossed over) the guidelines at the very top of post one.

I'm very interested in the topic too so I'll shut up and read the rest of the article

-tomos (September 15, 2009, 06:09 AM)

No need to tomos. I apologize if that's how the reply came off.

To be honest, I've been feeling very burned out these past few days but I didn't want to make an excuse out of it.

When I wrote that reply, especially the edit, I just wasn't sure what came over me so I decided to just leave it at that.

What's often not considered is why people are so desperate for all this self-help - the answer to it all is presumably there in the answer to that question. Not that that helps us a whole lot!

No. It's a pretty popular opinion that self-help is a scam that plays around with people's desperation. Consequently, this is why self-helps/productivity books/DIYs are often lumped towards the New Age (as opposed to social science).

New Age primarily being a religious movement based around the focus of self as God as opposed to being under God. (although that's an over-simplification)

The thing with these opinions though are that they often come off as knee jerk, biased and dis-illusions from putting faith in a bad program before.

...Yet as with any complaints, they contain grains of truth. This is also an aspect of why I liked how this article came out: The ambiguity represents my own confusion and my own biased agreement and disagreement with both sides.

In that sense, the effect (to me) comes off different from that of an expert or pseudo-expert opinion but from a lay person's accounts of his observations; while still including his opinions in the process.

Steve's "You attract what you're signaling" could just as easily be interpreted as 'if you're happy, you'll be successful'* which again isn't a whole lot of help to the unhappy of the world. But I suspect it's nearer the truth than his version . .

No. Steve's blog is famous for being half-New Age/half-productivity articles.

You attract what you're signaling is a belief that first came into fruition during the popularization of Seth.

Seth was a being that came to Jane Roberts during an Ouija Board session and then long story short, he published some books that ushered in the New Age belief.

One of the themes of the belief system was that you had a metaphysical being that is directly a part of the greater being that is God and each time you ask something from this being consciously, these beings will set forth events in the universe that will make your desire come true.

It's a lot more complicated than that, but it keeps getting simplified as time passes.

Soon after there were alot of channelers that popped out and one of them was Esther Hicks which made the book Ask and It is Given popular as she channeled Abraham and the system became simplified to: "Likes attracts Likes" as one of the universal law of the universe.

Up to this point, her book still retained the fact that you must work on it. Put things you want around your room to better visualize and channel your desires.

Later on, that's where the Secret came in and it was pretty much this: (if you prefer the over-simplified humorous skeptical take on the concept) http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=usbNJMUZSwo

I still recommend viewing it though because it's one of those motivate-you-to-try-this-under-1-viewing videos and so, price aside, it does a good job of inspiring people to visualize IMO.

It's also one of those things that's popular enough in torrents, so you can try it for free illegally.

But at the same time, that method pretty much mean that if the system did work for you, you just need to visualize the right amount of cash and you can buy twice the disks legally with little effort -- and if it doesn't work for you, you just saved some cash from being scammed.

Excluding Seth, Steve has written about both the Secret and Ask and it is Given.

With Ask it is Given, he mentioned that he came up with that similar idea before he knew about Ask and It is Given.

That's why there's strong evidence that Steve was talking about visualization.

On the flip side, that's kind of what makes visualization a strong candidate for scams, inferior productivity systems and over-simplified techniques: The whole idea around visualization is so open-ended that anyone can interpret it easily as anything.

Yet IF a person became productive from such visualizations, as long as it is bundled with a system, the whole system gets the credit.

I personally do believe that life is great, but I just havent figured out how to consistently enjoy it, to really live it. Their instruction (according to you) is: "so you just have to believe!" which reminds me of the whole positivity slant that you hear so much about (or used to at any rate). For example: repeating positive 'assertions' (or whatever you want to call them) reminds me of the way people used to wear perfume instead of washing - you have to remove all the negative first. I probably dont even need to say 'first' there - if you remove all the negative claptrap in your head, what's left - an open neutral person. Sound to me like the way to go

Lol, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or witty here.

In case, you aren't joking, it doesn't really work that way in reality. When you remove all the negative claptrap in your head, what's left is a person living in isolated bliss.

At some point, like washing, you'll either realize that washing doesn't remove all the dirt from your body, just reduces it so that you physically can't sense it without being an expert -- or you live in the blissful illusion that as long as you wash yourself regularly, you constantly remove all the dirt from your body.

You'll be less open because once you reach that sensation, you'll be more rejective of the idea that you do still have some negativity because the more you live that way, the more your entire life seems to be structured around the dogma that you're "cleansed/baptized."

This same structure will keep you from being more neutral because when you buy into that perspective, you'll have to reject data. In this case, any data that you deemed "negative", you will most likely reject rather than analyze or address.

You could even attribute this to why Steve has been accused of banning people who go against his opinions in his forum. (That said, I never really tried to clarify this because I never bothered to join his forum.)

Why dont we all do that then (me too) ?  I think because a lot of us dont know how to say 'No'. Because we've been programmed all our lives to do what our parents want (or maybe our parent's did the opposite and pampered to our every wish which is no help either) programmed  to conform to school and society. Some rebel, but still dont really know how to say a simple 'No'. They're mostly reacting, not really rejecting.

It's not just that. It's also dangerous to say No.

Even when we reject such programming, being an individual is a lonely life that opens you to being bullied verbally, mentally and physically by society. (The degree of course depends on what specifically it is you are rejecting.)

As you described, being a rebel is a reaction not a rejection. Yet, most perceive it as a rejection so it's still a much safer venue as far as having a group that's united.

Finally the reality is that it's much more rewarding to be perceived as an individual than it is to be an individual so that's a big reason why people don't pursue it.

Even those who are very talented, succeed, not because they were level 9999 of that category but because they played the right game and were at the right place, at the right time and left the right legacy.

So, what's with the 'No'?
- It's about defining our limits with others, but much more importantly, it's about defining out limits with ourselves. It's about saying to ourselves "No, I don't want or need to indulge in this unhelpful behaviour, or that way of thinking, (or whatever)". If we are lucky enough, our parents were able to give us helpful limits, to show us the way. But most people I know haven't had that luxury (me included).

Err... you kinda lost me on this one again.

PS. Paul, some things arent clear above - it's not clear for example when the quotes from app103 end and when your comments begin.

Thanks. I changed it.

It's not made clear in the Pavlina part who is making the comments - if they are mixed (i.e. from the article and the related comments and maybe yours as well?) it would be helpful to state that at the beginning.

No, none of them were my comments that's why they were under the Anecdote category.

As far as specific names, I found it troublesome so I didn't bother.

Add to the fact that I hate the effect that it focuses on the names rather than on the words and I was pretty much convinced to sort it this way. (Negatives, Positives and Warning Signs)

Negatives being downers or cynical messages

Positives being inspirational and motivational messages

and

Warning Signs being an anecdotal version of Keywords to look out for.

1210

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Fundamentals of Productivity: Think!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 05:02 AM »

@tomos,

umm... the guideline would be pretty much the first section of this thread (where guidelines is bolded) although this is a special case for this topic where it's more of a span of the entire theme of the thread.

Yeah, I get your point. As with mouser's reply, I would refer you to the Life Coaching as a Scam thread to show you why I wrote this thread.

On the flip side, the original intent of my GOE posts was to provide a balance set of short and long threads.

Long ones like this deal with the concepts. Short ones deal with direct advises.

Since the threads didn't really work out, the length of this thread combined with it's ambiguity sticks out like a sore thumb.

Still, this is one of my favorite posts so I'm definitely being biased alot.

Edit:

I nearly forgot. I never considered having sharp academic skills as a necessity for understanding the thread for those who haven't read it.

Mostly because I don't know how to write that way but also because the thread didn't need it no matter how many times I read it.

It's kind of why I consider it one of my favorite posts that I have written.

Normally, I feel there are short posts that over-simplify things to the point that it is common sense while there are long posts that over-write or over-add a footnote and a paragraph here and there.

This is one of those situations where I just felt everything came together to balance the issue and ambiguity even if there was a lack of scientific facts or cliff notes to back up each nuance.

Of course, I don't mean to say it hits home but take tomos' main point for example on having a summary.

Even if it doesn't hit home for everyone, I felt that the quoted guidelines perfectly summarizes the core aspect of the post if it was applied while the title summarizes the overlaying theme beautifully.

Then with regards to the anecdotes, each links provide exactly the different perspectives I had with the issue to the point that it creates a harmonious ambiguity that I felt made me think about the issue more than it confused me and yet even if I couldn't put a finger on it, I knew I was taking in themes even in the times where I couldn't put my finger on a single summary. Of course, I was only assuming this as if it was being read by another person besides me.

Although, of course, the fact that I already knew what I wrote kind of puts a damper to that effect.

Anyway sorry for switching perspectives in this issue tomos. I just didn't know how to address it without writing it in such a manner that came off as if I was addressing an invisible group rather than as if I was replying to you.

1211

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Fundamentals of Productivity: Think!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 04:03 AM »

@tomos, I hope you don't mind. I read your pm and prefer to do it over this thread so that others might be able to read them.

which kind? - the kind that arent 'both' ? I lose the sense of whole sentence here

-tomos

Yes. That was why I added the bit:

Do you really need to be productive or do you want to be productive?

Most people aren't both and often times these kinds of people throw the whole development of "productivity" under the bus either because they are (or can be) productive enough that they treat the issue like a faster engine replacement or because often times their unproductivity is built upon motivation issues only.

The key there being "most".

This sentence is so long and rambling I find it impossible to focus on - my mind wanders, even when I read it aloud. This is certainly to do with my lack of focus/lack of powers of concentration, but also to do with the extremely long sentence!

-tomos

No, it's not just the structure of the sentence or on your part. The entire topic thread was about injecting ambiguity to balance the issues instead of writing it from a purely negative view or a purely positive stance.

Maybe writing it this way would make things clearer:

This is why I would recommend implementing "LOTS OF" visualization techniques

not as a necessity

something that each unproductive person should do as practice to defend themselves from "re-hashed" productivity systems

to keep their enthusiasm from jumping the gun on a system who only made them feel good and excited rather than make them productive

(There's a typo here where who should be which)

such enthusiasm can stack up and cause a counter-productive after-effect where newbies can be lead astray

Newbies

end up hurting not only their desire to become productive but their lifestyle as well

(this should be: ...but their current lifestyle as well)

Cons: of what exactly?

-tomos

The original structure of all my planned GOE posts was that I would list the cons instead of the pros of every idea I have.

Basically, all the cons are addressing the guidelines of each thread unless stated otherwise. (That was when I still planned to write about them.)

dont understand message here? Turn visualisation into a habit? Addiction seems irrelevant if that's what you meant

-tomos

In referring to this:

"You just need to turn it into a habit (i.e. things like alcohol addiction which while serious is rarely requiring of highly effective productivity systems to fix.)

No, no.

Remember some part of my post:

"A great deal of it comes from many productivity systems and advises being rehashed and repackaged advises but a great deal of it is also a result of these people acting this way thus stunting the development of productivity...thus requiring a paradigm shift to move productivity efficiency further.

This is why it is also my opinion that while certainly each individual requires subtle differences to make them more productive in near similar issues, there is enough of a number to justify that a gap be made between those who only need to visualize to succeed and those who are in a situation where the technique might help them but they also can't afford the luxury to just rely on visualizing. (Determination issues aside)"

All the keywords are in referring to when a productivity system might be trying to scam people to hide the system's weaknesses or because that was the limit of the system.

You just need to turn <x> into a habit is a popular way of saying: "I don't know how to bypass/address this problem so just keep following my advise and keep working on it."

Later on, you can read about what app links to as a "magical mop".

Addiction is one popular issue in that alot of so-called productivity writers like to make the mundane achievement seem big so that people will buy into them being a credible source for productivity. (For a semi-similar theme, see the other thread: Life Coaching as a Scam)

Finish a novel? He's productive!
Message: Listen to the guru who was able to finish a novel

He finally have little to no problem with the dishes ever? He's productive!
Message: Listen to the guru who was able to master the habit of washing dishes

Quote/Paraphrase Celebrity X or Famous Guy Y: He knows how to write about productivity!
Message: Read the article because even if he, the author is not productive, he's quoting famous people and using them as an analogy.

Addiction falls under these criteria where it's very easy to hide under the banner of being cured because most everyone accepts it as a serious issue that you'll often be accused of being a jerk when you call people out on how it's a minor issue.

In this case, it is a minor issue in the context of what a high caliber productivity system should be able to handle.

The author lures the reader to the idea that they succeeded in something to hide the fact that the thing they succeeded in, isn't something that requires a high quality productivity system to do so. (no matter how serious)

This is, conveniently, also where the "turn it into a habit" comes in.

Hide the flaws of your system under the guise that people should just work on it and you can trick those with habit related problems to become productive not because your system is any good but because you managed to convince those people to convince themselves that they are following the system as opposed to just generically doing things over and over again so that they gain the habit that cures them from that one type of addiction.

For a similar quote later on, see:

useless or totally common-sense: this ones have been alleged before, good examples are the “quit smoking/coffee articles”

P.S. I'll let you expand on the Eckhart Tolle book in your reply as the section you added was part of your opinion.

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The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 15, 2009, 01:38 AM »

@SKesselman

Well, I really just posted this as something that's working for me with the hope that it might be of use to someone else.
I really didn't expect a disagreement, especially since you don't list any alternatives that you thinks might work better.

Yeah, to be honest, I didn't really want to prolong my reply so I omitted alot of things I wanted to say. Also, it just doesn't fit since this thread is more about creating the application rather than scrutinizing the concept.

Edit:

Previews currently written post:

*Gets a headache  

*inhales deeply...*

 "oh well... long post it is "

hmm...I don't know about getting spanked, but yes, avoiding punishment does motivate me. Why shouldn't it? Why else do people pay their bills, show up for traffic court, or make bank deposits? Fear. Nothing wrong with that, if it's saving you money, time and of course, your self respect.

Exactly.

Just like doing most homework, these things aren't about becoming productive or managing time or getting things done.

These things are either about "feeling organized" (even if you are only slightly disorganized) or are about having a life manager. (which is pretty much what feeds the life coaching business)

The problem is that the first can be fixed as tsaint alluded to by jumping around doing something, stopping at something and doing something again. It's like school when you first started out. You do all these things that you hope would be necessary and only a couple of things like alphabet, basic math and writing stick around until you move to an advanced course where you pretty much forget what you've learned and let your passion/fear of chaos move you forward until you pretty much retained what was retained or kept making yourself habituated into a routine.

The problem with roulette instead of productivity though, is that it won't really open you up to tackling problems. Most people aren't going to question whether the bills they are paying are the most optimum. Most people who go to court aren't really being noble about following the law for the better of the law. It's just routine for them to either use it to gain an advantage or use it to preserve the law they never think about when they go home watching TV. Most people who deposit to a bank rarely go beyond considering the stability of their banks until a recession slaps them in the face.

The whole thing is not about having a "to-do" list, the whole thing is about having a "must-do" list. Going further past that, a must do list is inefficient because most people who want to be productive in things they must do often do so because reality slaps them so hard in the face, they must do things without having the opportunity to really think about improving or doing well what it is they always have been doing. They just have to do it.

That kind of defeats the purpose of a productivity system because you're asking for the system (or in this case, a program) to do the things you only need a reminding of. Not necessarily the things that will make you become productive or put you in a situation where you will become more productive.

Also:

Even if you do agree with this concept, as tsaint alludes to, it's a losing battle because you're just convincing your mind "to fake the stress" instead of having a real motivation unless you have a real life threatening scenario.

Simply put, it is in my opinion that you're never going to create a software To-do list of Doom for everyone unless that program will wipe out your entire hard disk if you don't finish a task you put in there.

...And that's where the irony of the matter comes in:

I wasn't so much disagreeing with your post (as your post supports the theme of what a To-do List of Doom should be) but that I was disagreeing with tsaint's solution even if I agreed with him.

...that's kinda confusing.

Let me hope to simplify by chronologizing:

>I disagree with this thread but I didn't want to express it because I understand that people would disagree with me here and it's not really productive to state a disagreement with the concept since the thread is not about making a poll but in creating an application that fits with said concept (that I disagree with)

>>I replied to tsaint with the intent of disagreeing with his solution and not so much with your post.

>>>Unfortunately because tsaint and I have something we agree with, I ended up criticizing your post.

...and now I pretty much don't know whether I should apologize or clarify my opinions.

I really do sincerely want to apologize but I don't want to come off as doing it just to appease your feelings. It's just that this is one of those cases where even if I disagreed with your system, I didn't really reply with the intent to criticize it.

Sure it does.
'Want' and 'don't want' are two sides of the same coin, are they not?

I don't think so.

I mean... I get the idea of what you're saying but for me it's more "do" and "don't do" are two sides of the same coin.

Your two examples are kind of hard to address though as they're not things I normally do but I'll try:

Example 1: The mail

I hate mailing birthday cards, I'm afraid they'll never reach their destination. I hate my handwriting. Maybe they're expecting a gift. Anxiety. Procrastination. But, if I want to let someone know they're being thought of on their birthday, I can put their card on the door until it's filled out and sent smiley. The punishment for not doing so is feeling guilty and weak for succumbing to my own silly little fears.

See, if the issue was that want/don't want were the same coin, "IMHO" your punishment would be the thought of making that person unhappy or sad.

Following this trail of thought, if you want to mail them a birthday card, you would do so. If you don't want to mail them a birthday card, you would find another way to make them happy or achieve whatever it is you want.

However if the issue was in "doing" the action. The case would be that if you want to do something, you would already find the right motivation to do it. If you don't want to do something, then you would need to create a situation where you will either want to do it or want to get it over with.

In this case, by putting the birthday card where you can see it (or where you must do it), it generates an annoyance that desensitizes you from your fear, enough so that you need less will to "get it over with".

This matches with the idea that two opposing things can come close to being just opposite sides of the same thing.

In this case, you figured out that in the right frame of mind, you will do something you won't normally do IF you put yourself in a situation where you must do it and vice versa.

The only thing where "want/don't want" comes into play is because we often like to think that something we do is often something we want when in reality, we often don't need to think whether our wants is being addressed as long as we do the stuff or we put it in a list that sends the message to our brain to do the stuff.

That is why, as confusing as the whole thing is, this is not a case where want/don't want is the issue but on whether you "did and didn't do" the task. You're basically transferring your wants into a false want which is..."wanting to do everything that you put on this list you consider as a todo."

Even if you don't want something...by putting it in this list/system, you're saying to yourself that you must want it... until you don't really want to and delete the entry or throw away the list.

Therefore want/don't want being on the same side of the coin don't come into play with this situation.

It is also why you would normally jump to the conclusion that the punishment is in being guilty because rather than in focusing on achieving your want, your thought is in doing what's on the list and if you weren't able to do it, you would feel guilty because you weren't able to do it.

That's also why some people can become stressed with their to-do lists.

Nevertheless, it's a confusing issue. One that needs separate article on their own.

Things like false want was something I was originally going to make a long post out of titled: Give "fake" meaning to your life.

and alot of the things you said and I said are part of the snippets I've written about when I was originally planning to write a 10 commandments of Productivity.

Just some of the not fully fleshed out snippets I have under there are:

Out of sight, out of mind. (Not: In your list, in your life)

Point C is not Point B

Finished is not checked off. Checking off is not finished. Finished is being able to build a ship to go to an island where you're unfinished.

The secret is not willing things by doing things.

When you want to get things done, write it down where you will want to see them.

As you can hopefully see, it's really not something I feel I am able to comfortably address without going into lengths. (...and even with unlimited length, I feel I have not really become productive in such a way that I can completely addressed these concepts.)

Hopefully even with these problems, you kind of got some of the idea where I'm coming from.

Example 2: the vet
Seeing my cat frightened, yowling and in caged up is very upsetting to me...but I want to take care of her, so I put her vet appt. cards on the door to remind myself to prepare for them, and take her in. The punishment for not doing this is that I could cause her to suffer preventable health problems. And knowing I'm being a hypocrite ("I love my cat sooo much".). Right.

This is even harder in that I never had a pet that I was responsible for and I don't really know what vet appt. cards do.

If there's a similar theme, it is that by focusing more on the want (in this case because you're trying to argue more from the "don't want" position), you started listing some of the things you normally won't think about of a task and realize that there are alot of things you can miss by just doing those tasks.

Had you wanted to bring your pet to the vet under such a system or turned your pet into a general statistic and get the task over with (like the first example), the words preventable "health problems" wouldn't have hit your radar. (or not so much depending on how much you love your pet)

By focusing on the "don't want", you were able to realize "why" you want something done. By focusing on that, you opened yourself to the possibilities of health issues and it could potentially lead you to the interest of researching on health problems your vet normally won't notice...and that could lead you to different cat-related issues that could possibly benefit your pet. (Kind of similar in that browsing wikipedia would lead you to other issues you weren't originally reading if you dig in it long enough)

At the same time, it also lead you to addressing something you feel made you a hypocrite. (Although you lost me on that one.)

Had you had a system where you will be "annoyed". Even if these thoughts started entering your mind, the annoyance could lead you to forget about these issues and make you focus on the current task at hand. (unless you're extremely good at jotting everything in your head)

Similarly, if you have a lot of pending tasks, you won't easily be able to focus on the issue of why you want/don't want to do a certain task. Habit will pretty much convince you to jot down the task and put it there and deal with it in a do/didn't do fashion and the want issue is left spinning on the table, hoping the metal ball would land in such a way that you would contemplate on the task that would make you productive.

Finally, I think this example also addresses the fact that sometimes we have wants that would require us doing something we don't want and vice versa and if you have a system based on annoyance, you better hope you don't have lots of tasks or the current task you are doing is the right task you should be focusing all your resources on.

Pretend? I very much needed this system. I made it up for myself, & it's worked for long enough that I think it's worthy of being posted.
People are really surprised now when they remind me of something, that it's already -done-.

Oh. I didn't mean it that way. I mean in the sense of pretending as in creating a false purpose for what would normally be things you don't need such a system for.

It's not that the system will be so ineffective that you won't need it, it's that these systems can sometimes be only necessary for a few tasks but unnecessary/unhelpful for most but because it's effective in some problem tasks, a person would apply it for most of the problems they normally don't need such a system for.

From a recommendation standpoint, it becomes problematic because sometimes these systems can't help in certain tasks but because the person doing it, can already handle it, they don't notice it when recommending the system to another person until the other person encounters the issue with alot of their tasks.

That said, the issue of pretension is kind of iffy because I said it more as a way to address tsaint's point which was already based on a similar premise rather than a case of criticizing you or your system.

I don't know why, but I cannot tell you what's on my Outlook calendar; even if it mirrors what's in my wallet calendar, and I see it every day. But, I can tell you everything on my wallet calendar, at any given time. Even when I only look at it once a week. Weird, but paper can actually help some people.

If you may allow me to make an uneducated guess, I would say the trick is in your fingers. (or the motion of your body)

It's like typing on the keyboard without ever going through a touch typing lesson or knowing the basics. Do it long enough and your fingers kind of remembers where the letters are even if you aren't exactly going to beat a practicing touch typist.

The muscle memory/instinct just matches up with the action.

When you're doing it in Outlook, your body is instinctively training to focus your eyes on the monitor and learning how to input something into Outlook.

This is because as far as your body is concerned, what you're inputting in Outlook is no different than what you're inputting in Word or anything else. Your body is only remembering Monitor -> Locate Icon -> Open -> Wait for Pop-Up -> Push boxes/keyboard buttons.

There's no concept of insert because the senses don't match with the action. Your feeling sense/touch is going to the keyboard, your sight is in the monitor, your smell is nowhere, your hearing is hearing click, click, click mainly and your obviously not going to move your mouth.

With paper, two of your senses is going to the inputting tool and the paper.

Feel/Sight is both on the pencil/pen and on the paper.

Add to this, there's often very little distraction. Unless you're suddenly interrupted during that process, your mind is totally focused on input tool and paper.

When you recall that action, it's totally on tool then paper.

With Outlook it's multitasking on the keyboard then to the monitor then to the way your Outlook is setup combined with your keyboard combined with everything else your doing combined with your perception of what Outlook is doing based on your knowledge.

Too much interference.

Similarly this is why David Allen advises on visualizing on your brain dump notebook when you happen to not have a pen around when wanting to brain dump something. Just visualize the hand writing the task and you will remember nearly the same motion once you get to your pen and notebook.

Even a guy like me who has poor memory, I use this as a replacement bookmark when I'm reading a book.

As long as I'm reading two or three books, all I really need is to write the page number down on the cover of the book with my fingers, say the page number mentally in my head and 6 times out of 10, I'll get the right page. 8 times out 10, even if I forgot where I left off, I'm a few pages away from where I left off.

@mouser

It's this creation of a cost function which is so significant because it means that one no longer has to exert "will power" to force yourself to do something -- it's become something that is it's own real reward.

This suggests that rather than try to force yourself into GOOD HABITS of doing what you rationally think you should do -- one might be better off trying to construct these subconscious costs functions that regulate what actions make you feel good and bad.

And it also suggests that maybe when we find it very hard to act in the way we want to in terms of getting things done, what we may be facing is a "malfunctioning cost function."

That's kinda strange mouser. From where I'm sitting, it kind of sounds like what happened was that you gained some good habits but then you said it's not about good habits so I'm kind of confused.  

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The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: What do you do to bypass the actionable necessity?

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 14, 2009, 10:26 PM »

I believe Forster suggests to start by saying/writing:
Think about X (we'll say it's an idea for a book). And then I guess you'd do the GTD thing of figuring out the first step, but hopefully the thinking bit would help you be realistic about the idea..
as opposed to:
Start my book

That's one way. He also suggests in AutoFocus to highlight it.

Basically someday/maybe and it's other derivatives are holding back the productivity movement because as you alluded to:

In my time I've had some ideas that are pretty big but also pretty 'unactionable' for various reasons. But I suspect at the end of the day, if I really wanted to write that book or illustrate the other one or whatever - I would do it. I would make it so I could do it, even if the obstacles (lack of time/ lack of money/ lack of experience/ lack of talent even) seem insurmountable.

This is bad and is one of the reasons I felt GOE 2009 should be criticize-able even at the risk of attracting rude people for rude people's sake.

I dont think any productivity or grading system would help or hinder much with going for that big project - but as you say it could help sorting them out.

It could...but not with unactionable items. At least not fully.

That's kind of the point of making a thing actionable. If you can do that, most mundane stuff pretty much need not any system beyond a to-do list. (but anything that becomes that way don't need a full system either...nor of a full functional to-do list... you just need a list you can see in front of you)

Me, I could do with all the help I can get - I'm at a sort of crossroads where my main work of the last 15 years seems to be petering out & I don't mind from the point of view that I want to do something different. But I dont know what exactly. And while I *might* not have the luxury of choice, I obviously going to have some sort of influence with my thoughts (be they positive or negative) and my ideas. (and my ToDo lists? lol)

Exactly. I think most good productivity systems promise this "help" and they deliver to an extent but the margin of progress has been so small that it's worth asking this question still.

Maybe we should/could think about this practically - Skwire is on fire at the moment Wink - maybe he or someone could throw together an app where one could brainstorm to-do-ideas and somehow rank them - I'll have to think some more about this.

Nice! I don't know who Skywire is but that sounds good.

Just one question though: what would be the difference between this app and a bug tracker?

Any thoughts on how ideas could be ranked - to be honest at the moment I cant really see a piece of software being able to manage this.
What do you think? I guess you Paul were talking about this on a different level than "what will I do with my life!" - my post just kind of veered that way unintentionally!

Nah, no prob -- all productivity questions kind of lead to that question anyway. :p

Honestly, as long as I don't know programming, I can't really give out any practical ideas because most of these are going to be algorithm based.

It'd be like me suggesting a spider to gather all productivity related ideas and start a ranking from there. I won't even be able to suggest a basic concept of it because I don't even know HTML or CSS.

If I would be just throwing out random ideas though, I'd do something like this:

1) Let's first use the data from the spider to create a flawed universal ranking which we would use as supplement for the program. Kinda like We Feel Fine for productivity related tasks. (For web apps, we could go the api way of asking permission for users to allow for this program to anonymously collect their task data)

2) Let's then make the user take a decent "personality quiz"-like survey ala Strength Finder for free and then use it to generate a starting "guess-generator" for their task by comparing their strengths to the commonly written tasks scouted by the spider.

3) Let's then wrap this generator around a bare bones to-do list.

4) Instead of a progress meter, let's combine this interface with a How Full is your Bucket universal user interface which allows them to insert a task for every drop. (This should then bypass the fear of data mining because they can drop a task anonymously and as long as not enough trolls skewer the data, the rankings would not be highly inacurrate)

5) The generator should then be able to intelligently know whether what they've done contributed to any of the tasks they've put in the to-do list and then create a drop-down history archive for that task. (This should serve both as the 43 things alternative and also a history of what actions they've done as well as what actions they/others did that might possibly hurt their goals in achieving the action.)

6) These data can then be exported to a format that allows it to be sent to a universal central server database which can be compared and contrasted and scrutinized to be improved upon. (Equally these should keep the app from bypassing privacy because then you can design an interface that would remove sensitive data)

...but that's way out there. It's really more accessible to ask others of the basic question of "What do you do to bypass the actionable necessity?" than such ideas because not all members in donationcoder are most likely advanced programmers.

I'd encourage you to make a separate topic of this though. Would be nice to have another active programmer-centric thread in this GOE besides the To-Do List of Doom.

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Living Room / Re: The unspoken truth about managing geeks

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 14, 2009, 02:49 AM »

@mahesh2k

Yup...

Order up! - The unspoken truth about managing managers who manage geeks.

1215

General Software Discussion / Re: Let's Fork The Thread! Linux Notetaking Thread!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 14, 2009, 02:47 AM »

Oh my bad. I thought the topic was about retaining the formatting of text when copying.

For those situations, I simply use clipboard managers. It has never particularly bothered me because even on Windows such apps like The Form Letter Machine and Notepad don't exactly allow for the source url either so I tend to copy it separately.

1216

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: My assignment: The ToDo List of Doom

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 14, 2009, 02:38 AM »

I KNOW sloth triumphs over any other considerations apart from greed perhaps.

I don't agree with SKesselman's system either but your post can also be considered mistaken.

Fun and clarity triumph over sloth and greed.

Not because they are superior. But because they feed them better than those two concepts on their own.

That has and will always be the vision and bane of productivity.

(Sorry if this comes off as self-preaching. I'm still working on how to write short replies well.)

My final consideration for your system, apart from my main motivators of sloth and greed, there's cowardice, which would come into play when my much feared wife saw mouldy, fungus covered notes all over one of her doors....maybe your system could work for me after all!

That's not cowardice, that's SBS: "simulating bureaucratic stupidity" :p

Think about it. Like a large bureaucracy, even if you do things well, fast and efficient... you're always hurting your momentum because you're in the fake timeline that will hurt you if you adapt against it a little bit.

It'd be like being late 30 sec. for class because you overslept from making the best thesis you can because you're passionate about the subject but because it's a rule in your school that being late equals not being allowed in a classroom, your teacher not only kept you from going inside and listen to the data but your thesis is rejected because you weren't in class.

Anything that's anti-adaptation will always be anti-productivity and this is anti-adaptation because when you fail, you're left with more trouble that keeps you from moving on and when you succeed, you're not allowed an air to breathe without the consequences being constantly in your mind. Such stress will then only increase your chances of completely breaking down while the system's fungus eats away at your life. (contrast this with a productive enough person who has a messy area they just need to clean a little bit because of the lack of such constrictions)

Similarly, SKesselman's method is akin to doing your homework because your teacher will spank you in class and give you a failing grade. It works to a certain extent for things you don't really care about but applied as a system, it's not really going to make you do the things you want but make you pretend you need an annoying system for the things you already could've done without it.

1217

General Software Discussion / Re: What the hell is OpenCandy?

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 14, 2009, 12:06 AM »

One: with websites you don't really have a choice. It's not even as if you could avoid sites that gather such data and reward those that don't, because it's a safe bet they all do. With desktop apps though, you still have a choice. Also, you can't tell if someone's Apache server is hooked to a big honking advertising database, but you can usually tell if your desktop apps try to phone home. So not only do you still have a choice, but you have the technology to help you make it.

Not trying to defend OpenCandy since it's been so long since I read the thread but you do have a choice when it comes to websites by not visiting, signing up or sharing personal information on them. Pretty much the same thing as not downloading programs = choice. (Voting by boycott)

Also, most popular data mining sites are pretty much known from their Terms of Service and from the controversy they receive. (See Facebook articles)

Two, probably more important. As long as we trust the browsers we're using (and I am aware of JavaScript exploits et al), the information a browser can leak really pales in comparison to what a local app can potentially disclose. Anything on your system that's not encrypted is game, so I'd say the stakes are higher.

Not really. Adware and non-browser exploits are on par just as "rigged" programs are categorized on the same level as Javascript exploits as security/virus issues.

The distinction does blur the more people switch to web apps like Gmail or Google Docs, but you can still use your best judgement about what to use Google Docs for, and when to stick with Word. But when you have spyware on your desktop, then the choice between what's sensitive and what isn't is no longer yours.

Still is really. Remember until docx, Word has alot of privacy issues left out in the open. That puts it on par with Google Docs.

Similarly if you have an additional layer to your data, it's still a case of the spyware being able to break/know the encryption/password and not fully on just gaining access. Also most spyware can't really compare to the dormant "swine flus" of internet viruses so most part, the choice is still yours on whether you will reformat your OS or risk permanently removing it via an anti-spyware.

So I think there is a difference, and of course I still wish Odin's wrath upon all the data collectors everywhere. Bottom line for websites: if tracking me is making you money, I want a piece of it, because it's my stuff. You would not give that data to me for free, would you?

Err... they kind of do. It's the modern day technological implementation of fascism.

Give me your bookmarks, pictures, private photoes, personal info for free and we'll make you easier to find your friends online or become an internet pop sensation. (the free equivalent of the modern day internet Aryan: instant fame/instant friends/instant consumerist relevance in exchange for illusionary slavery)

That's kinda your piece while your data is theirs.

1218

Announce Your Software/Service/Product / Re: Suggestions for development of cross-platform Linux Outliner Note software

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 12, 2009, 03:25 PM »

urlwolf, not trying to offend but what are the notable powertoys in OneNote so far? (Last I checked there weren't anything major compared to a major Firefox extension)

I'm not saying a plugin functionality is not essential but even apps like DonationCoder's don't get as much plugins (and would further get less if not for the community) and don't most FOSS developers have the default capability for supporting plugins because they are open-source? (Not saying that the code don't need to be improved upon but I can't quite see what plugin features are necessary for an outliner that isn't already implemented within the program.)

On the flip side, correct me if I'm wrong but in order to mimic Surfulator's clipping capabilities, doesn't that immediately imply that the program will support plugins already because these clipping capabilities require browser extensions?

Again, not trying to offend. Just wondering what idea you have in mind that might require a plug-in.

1219

Announce Your Software/Service/Product / Re: Suggestions for development of cross-platform Linux Outliner Note software

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 12, 2009, 02:12 PM »

Note to the OP: I'm a non-programmer who's just trying to share his views and frustrations:

recommendations for solid, flexible architecture that would be 'future-proof' (as far as possible)

Best future-proof version is to have two separate versions. Just see the appeal of many mobile apps with desktop alternatives.

The reality is that even if you create a cross-platform program, you're dealing with two to three audiences. You're never going to satisfy each of these people's requirements.

Linux users are more likely to crave cutting edge designs from your apps and don't mind you sacrificing a bit of stability for a whole lot of well-communicated developer feedback and adaptation of their bug fixes. It also has to be absolutely free, no strings attached.

MS users want stable and having a standard set of features. These people don't care as much for a program having lots of features as long as you focus on the user interface, the synchronization of data from area to area and basically privacy and ease of updates.

Mac users wouldn't mind no features as long as you put all the eye candy on to it and make it look like a native app.

These three userbase are so separated that you won't really get any flexible future proof cross-platform software without sacrificing things like the bulkiness of java. (at least from my un-educated experience)

It's not that you can't satisfy all these three markets with a decent enough app like most cross-platform programs do but forget about it being fool proof or being special if that's the case. You're not just going to be able to optimize each program for each OS unless you focus more on cross-back ups and cross-data and then just use the difference in culture demand to maximize your program's notoriety on each of those OS. Most of your audience won't really mind if one version is less capable than the other. They just want something that's special and only your program can offer.

If anything, a Linux-specific version with power user options can provide excitement for your Windows audience and your Windows audience reaction can make your Mac audience be more patient with their version while also providing the following that would back up your Windows and Linux audience.

Sure it's costlier and more un-realistic but with your goals, it might be much more realistic to do cross-platform but no app has ever really appealed to all crowds that matched with your lofty goals. (Even popular apps like Opera, Firefox, GIMP, etc. etc. are annoying and not seamless in transition.)

features you would like to see

Snappiness, stability and seamless.

Most of the programs you mentioned are bulky and have a confusing user interface compared to what they can do. It's not that they're non-functional but if anything EverNote has shown, good feature + good use of trialware + familiar user interface and you have an audience and a market.

Hell, you have two markets on the same OS. Except Evernote crapped on one of their markets.

You also have to take note that you can't fit everything into your program so audience won't be looking for a suite and won't want a suite. They want your mini-options as beating the competition in looks, design, feedback, plugins, security and simplicity.

The more you think of focusing on fitting all the programs (even if you think light bare bone alternative) instead of providing a simpler user-friendlier alternative with less features the more you're probably heading the way of Chandler.

 

features you hope that we will AVOID

Confusing format exporting and importing
Sluggishness in favor of features
Traditional look
Lack of ability to hide each section of the toolbar (see Opera shift + F12)
Lack of relationship between the features
Lackluster tutorial (i.e. clicking help)
Design for the sake of looking cool and large like Windows Media Player
Lack of thought in practical usage
Lack of specific goal the program excels at
Poor gap when jumping from beginner features to advanced ones
Poor website design and lack of clear feature list when downloading the app
Lack of basic "necessary" features when released because you were so focused on developing the app to put it through any real life test

practical considerations regarding building a robust application.

Say No to Featuritis

Don't try to fit two things into one (better cross-format than slow format)

Always take into consideration the systray.

Auto-back-ups, auto-back-ups, auto-back-ups

Never put in a feature half-assedly unless it's for the Linux/BSD version.

1 version beats 2 version; 1 1/2 version loses to 2 1 versions

1220

Living Room / Re: How to Lucid Dream -- Nice wikiHow page

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 12, 2009, 10:05 AM »

lol..I've seen snakes many times in my dreams (cause we've few here). and those sites interpret something like this. Which is not making sense to me ever. This is the reason i don't buy those telekensis,paranormal people's opinion who try to interpret dreams/events. So gotta agree dream dictionary/forums are of no use 

-mahesh2k (September 11, 2009, 02:27 AM)

Well the telekensis paranormal people are scams. Most interpreters though seem like the modern day Freudians.

These dictionaries though aren't based on accuracy but on quantity. That's kind of why they're a dictionary and not a recommendation system.

See this for example where the interpretation is interlaced with user's sharing of their dreams and supposed interpretation to generate a wiki-like compendium of interpretations in the hopes that you win the lottery.

1221

General Software Discussion / Re: Let's Fork The Thread! Linux Notetaking Thread!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 12, 2009, 09:59 AM »

Is this really the best situation from a user perspective side? Wouldn't it be better to innovate a user interface that beats this issue?

For example Latex isn't exactly Word but it does some things better than it and that's why if Lyx were to be improved, it could easy innovate something special.

I think some basic ideas like drop down briefcase but instead of choosing HTML or plain text, have it pop-up a forrmatting box could bypass the frustration somewhat.

...or how about a formatting suggestion generator for the text which you can quickly choose or dispose of?

1222

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Fundamentals of Productivity: Think!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 12, 2009, 09:54 AM »

@mouser,
                 Check the Life Coaching as a Scam topic.

1223

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Re: Fundamentals of Productivity: Think!

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 11, 2009, 07:04 PM »

Removed the center align per tomos' recommendation

1224

Living Room / Re: How to Lucid Dream -- Nice wikiHow page

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 11, 2009, 01:16 AM »

@mahesh2k,

Well if you've browse some free dream dictionary sites, something as simple as being kicked and doing the kicking can have different interpretations.

That's why I'd rather ask mouse than bother with dream forums. 

1225

The Getting Organized Experiment of 2009 / Life Coaching as a Scam

« Last post by Paul Keith on September 11, 2009, 12:50 AM »

http://www.adaringad...-coaching-is-a-scam/

Unfortunately there is a dark and dirty secret about the whole Life Coach and self development industry and quite frankly I think it’s time I spilled the beans.

It’s a scam!

It’s full of people with flaws, people that make mistakes, have imperfect lives and worst of all, have multiple-personalities. In short, it’s populated by a bunch of nut jobs, and yes, I’m one of them.

I know that must come as a bit of a shock, but it’s important to be honest about this stuff, after all, this is The Discomfort Zone, not The Cute and Fluffy Zone.

If you spend a few minutes scanning peoples bios on Twitter you’ll be amazed at how many people love life and can’t wait to tell you about it. It almost seems like there’s a competition to see who loves life the most with the winner getting an additional 25 years on Planet Earth courtesy of the Universe.

I think it’s fair to say that most people love life and this is ably demonstrated when it comes under serious threat. Not many people when diagnosed with a terminal illness shrug their shoulders and say “That’s cool Doc, because I’m not really bothered about this whole life thing anyway. When can we get it over and done with?”

I love life too. Except that is, on the days when it’s a bit crap that is, and there are days like that.

Pretty cut and dry article. Most won't really consider this noteworthy but it's worth a topic at some point. (to serve as a "golden rule" reminder)

The only real issue I have is that I have a topic where some of this theme was addressed so how can I in good conscience share this without also posting my "still considered long" one? (That said, the two articles don't really have much similarity outside of this theme.)