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10276

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 28, 2007, 06:43 AM »

for a diplomatic/studied response (also very critical - from the comments to same article in nontroppos last post)

http://commentisfree....html#comment-941965

There is another strawman that floats in this same area: the notion that homeopathy treats the whole patient instead of narrowly defined diseases as recognised by conventional medicine. It shouldn't bother them that the study gives them a pool of similar patients. The homeopath only needs to define ahead of time what they would regard as being a measure of a successful outcome ... The homeopaths' requirement for individualisation and 'holism' is no obstacle to trialling. ... Mr MaqcEoin should find us a 'rational' homeopath who can answer for all of these problems.

-
I have quite a basic understanding of homeopathy,
yet off the top of my head I can think of a few possible "scenarios" for clinical trials that could take into account the different approach of homeopathy.
Which begs the question why arent these happening or being organised...
(no smart answers to that one please )

10277

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 07:41 PM »

You're just a black sheep, Tom?

-Darwin (November 27, 2007, 07:10 PM)

nope,
I'm a piebald

nice read about the black swans there nontroppo

10278

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 07:03 PM »

Tomos : your black swan image is nice, but it doesn’t say much without any contextualization. What proposition are we trying to refute here : “all swans are white” ? “most swans are white” ? etc.  In the same manner, if there should be any meaningful debate about homeopathy, evolution, etc., it should always be about precise aspects, and IMO it should be backed up with serious studies (preferably multiple) ..

-Armando (November 27, 2007, 06:55 PM)

eh,
I think you got me and the black swan out of context there Amando -
I didnt say anything about a white swan or a black one either...

10279

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 04:54 PM »

The first couple of paragraphs and the last probably contain what you feel is offensive.

-nontroppo (November 27, 2007, 12:38 PM)

true, designed to put off any one with any homeopathic sympathies
WHY put an article in an offensive sandwich???

Someone said in an earlier post it would be nice if there was more debate
I say simply:
this article will not encourage any debate.
He says it is not an attack.
The Lancet article, if you have read it, is not an attack - it is a model article - brief, succinct, referenced, to the point.
The Guardian article unfortunately is an attack.

First sentence:
"There are some aspects of quackery that are harmless - childish even - and there are some that are very serious indeed."
nontroppo -
imagine if someone said something like that about your career for example or something you believe in?
Maybe you are the type to smile nonchonantly but most people arent - they get their backup

I am not defending homeopathy or attacking this facts quoted in this article.
(so there's no need to argue them with me at any rate)
I am simply saying he is damaging his own case if he really wants to get talking to the homeopathic community

10280

Living Room / Re: Forum Angst

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 04:32 PM »

+1 for nudone's approach

I do go through phases of saving stuff in Surfulater "for later"
but it hasnt quite resolved the problem for me [yet] - even just here there's so much stuff -
was that you tinjaw that was telling people to post less?!

10281

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 11:24 AM »

thanks Darwin for taking the trouble

It's easy for me to say what I've said - if someone aggravates me, I react too.. or if I frustrated or whatever
Suppose I just expect more in scientific debate/commentary .. but then why should I...

Think of it this way -
say if you supported an Anthropological theory that had no scientific backing but for some reason you had belief in it,
then you read an article about it by a member of the establishment* where in the first line they're talking about "quackery" or the anthropological equivalent (hoaxery maybe) - I reckon that would get your back up.
Well,
that's how Ben Goldacre starts his article.
Thats why I say what I've been saying - it's harder to see I think when you either agree or are disinterested/neutral

* the establishment which is very conservative, tends to react very strongly to new ideas from inside or out, or old ideas (even though they, or the drug companies I should say are now making drugs from herbs for example that were scoffed at as remedies at for years) etc.etc.
-
In fact the more I write in this thread the more I realise my problem is really that I am [unfortunately] a very disillusioned patient of modern medicine.
I think this is the reason people are turning in droves to alternative treatments, very many of which are much scarier than you who have posted above find homeopathy...[this, naturally, is not a defence of homeopathy!]

I think I've made my point about 20 ways at this stage so will retire to my life

PS nontroppo: I agree with you it is appalling behaviour on the part of the SoH threatening to sue bloggers speaking against them.
Doesnt do them any favours does it!

10282

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Locate 3.0 - great *FAST* HD search tool!

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 06:10 AM »

just a reminder,
Link is:-
http://locate32.webhop.org/

10283

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 05:36 AM »

I'm really surprised that no-one seems to acknowledge or agree with my problems with the presentation of this article (the Guardian one from Ben Goldacre)

Judging by what he's saying, he is reacting against, well, lots.
But unfortunately reacting is a key word.
Look at it this way, if a kid is obnoxious to you & you're obnoxious back, what do you get -
escalation.
Exactly the same with adults, families, countries, or followers of X or Y, whatever.
I'm coming down hard on Ben Goldacre it's because that's the article posted here,
if I read a similarly patronising & not objectively presented one from a homeopath I would give it a hard time too.

I'm not questioning his facts here, I'm questioning the patronising and rude presentation of same in the Guardian article.
It's as I say unfortunate because he is actually reasonably fair in terms of not seeing the medical community as a bed of roses etc..
I also think it's unfortunate because if he has a message for people, for example who dabble in homeopathy but don't know much about it this patronising tone is not going to win him any converts.
It is an article for the converted and an "up yours" message to homeopathy.
But maybe that's what he wanted...

and he's responding to an article by a novelist - what's going on there ???
maybe that's the problem - it's not scientific/objective/polite because he's responding/reacting to a novelist...
actually the Lancet article is scientific, with references, and not rude etc.
Dont know why he feels he has to be patronising and rude for the other one then...

10284

Coding Snack Guidelines / Re: IDEA: slim folder menus on taskbar (not in system tray)

« Last post by tomos on November 27, 2007, 04:34 AM »

app,
how do you get the other stuff (i.e. not my docs & not drives) at top level with drives?

10285

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 22, 2007, 10:36 AM »

Eóin, I agree that people who support it tend to get entrenched and a bit religous about it in terms of converting the masses (always a big mistake!)
You say
"one side of my family seem to have no faith in any treatment unless they hear about it through word of mouth."
I suspect part of the background to that is that the state of medical treatment for illnesses in general isnt very good, but the state of it in Ireland is particularly poor.
Living in Germany now, I see a huge difference in general in the way patients are treated by doctors, also there's much less antibiotics given out here than in Ireland where they are regularly given even when not required - simply "in case".

nontroppo,
I don't think you have to worry about being so "delicate"!
I suspect if your friends "believe" in homeopathy they wont be so easily converted -
not by the likes of the above article at any rate -
if he was trying to convert anyone he needs a lesson or two in communication skills.
Which is kind of unfortunate really, cause if he has a worthwhile message it would be nice if it was presented in such a way as to be readable by the "other" camp...
And if your friends are converted from homeopathy? maybe they'll find something better..

Finally CW, I just wanted to give a bit of background to my homeopathic experience.
I did a short evening course in it a few years ago and since then have been using it for minor ailments for myself.
As I've said already I knew nothing about scientific tests/trials done related to homeopathy.
-
The reason I will continue to use it is this :
in my experience, if I mistakenly choose the wrong remedy it wont work (there are often a few possible remedies for something and what with being no expert myself I guess I often get the wrong one)
If I then choose the correct remedy it will work.
I dont know does this rule out the placebo effect but it certainly gives an angle that hasnt been covered in what I've read so far (from the anti-camp )

Actually the most interesting thing bout all this for me was the talk about the placebo effect
and the recognition therein of the effects of our thoughts and beliefs
I did a search for this thread & the only other reference here to homeopathy was a thread/link from app listing things unexplainable by science - [FTR according to Wikipedia the reference to homeopathy has been discredited]
First on the list is "The placebo effect"
An interesting read as well ..

10286

Living Room / Re: Free Rice: Increase your vocabulary while you feed the hungry

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 04:11 PM »

I get up to 43 once (briefly)
seem to be able to hold 42 for a while though

I have a friend who reads a lot
(and says that when growing up her family used a lot of archaic words)
she reached 46 - and stayed there a while too 
have to ask her can she remember any of the words -
I didnt recognise a lot of them & was working on on educated/intuitive guess's
(is it a noun or a...)

10287

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 12:21 PM »

If you disagree, you'll have to put up with me talking about the Invisible Pink Unicorns dancing in my walls, not to mention the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because no tests have proven conclusively that these entities do not exist.

-CWuestefeld (November 21, 2007, 11:53 AM)

well said CW

"not scientifically proven = doesnt work" is far too nebulous to address. One could mean at least two things by the "not scientifically proven" part: either "never tested", or "tested but could not find any evidence supporting the claimed effect". Only the first of these is a pathetic argument.

-CWuestefeld (November 21, 2007, 11:53 AM)

First:
my saying that was a response to what I knew would be said - I've read the science bit now & my presumption was correct.

"One could mean at least two things"
actually I didnt mean either (if i understand correctly)
I meant "science" looks at homeopathy "medicine" & says "we cant find anything here because the medicine is diluted too much" (my summary).
Then people like the guy who wrote that article mock it because they cant find anything -

Cant they for gods sake, or should i say for science's sake, just say it in a neutral manner -
which could be something like:
we could find no evidence of anything in this "medicine".
Fair enough! Doesnt mean there's nothing there, just they couldnt find anything.

Re the scientific tests/trials, I have no idea CW
And I in no way want to become an apologist for homeopathy & it's practicioners and what they do or dont do *
The content of that article was disturbing -
unfortunately as I have said the author was on a bit of a rant -
not helpful for getting the message across to neutral people or to the "other" camp.

The most unfortunate thing here is that there has basically been a feud going on between the two camps for centuries probably at this stage which again makes it much harder to figure out the "true" truth

and at the end of the day I'm fairly unscientific myself - it just bugs me a lot when the medical or scientific community are too!!
Obviously it bugs the author that the homeopathic community is too (sensibly)

* nor for any other "alternative" or mainstream medicine for that matter
I'm off for me dinner

10288

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 11:44 AM »

well, I read as far as the "science bit".

The guy has a lot of interesting stuff to say -
it would be interesting if you could follow up on all his statements
and claims about trials and tests & their results.

The most unfortunate thing about this article is the tone -
in fact it undermines his message to a large extent.
He gives out (with very good reason by the sounds of it) about "unscientificness" (my word) in the homeopathy community
but his article is a bit of a rant which isnt very scientific or objective....
(Possibly his article in the medical journal is more "scientific" but this one doesnt inspire..)

I didnt even read the science bit because the anti-people always say:
not scientifically proven = doesnt work. Which I find a fairly pathetic "argument"
(as said above, for me if it works I'm not interested in the "arguments")

more like an article you'd get in the Sunday Times* really, innit

* havent read it in a while but could be described as an upmarket tabloid

10289

Living Room / Re: Interesting article on homeopathy - from a medical perspective

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 11:15 AM »

Modern, I'll call it "western", medicine - to differentiate from eastern medicines -
is amazingly evolved in terms of surgery.

Funny that you quote this

The only concern of homeopaths is to treat the symptoms of disease,
rather than the basic causes

-
because,
if you look at western medicine that's *all* your average docter or even specialist will do.
The whole approach of western medicine is to treat the symptoms.
Sometimes they get it right and manage to sort out the illness, but largely they give medicines that "relieve" the symptoms (which is naturally a help to the patient, short term at any rate) but which often have unfortunate side-effects, this without being able to pinpoint the actual cause or cure related to the illness.

Of course the old cliches are true in that if you are able to lead a happy life and take care of your self and your immune system you'll be much better able to resist and avoid viruses/illness etc.

Re homeopathy, I'm not qualified to argue/debate.
But I can say this from experience: it is *very* effective in first-aid situations and
can be also very effective in treating children and even animals.
-
I guess I point out the children & animals cause of the possible positive effects of believing something works.
They arent believing either way, of course it could be just the power of my belief in it if I give them the medicine

And, really, I dont care how or why it works -
I'm happy that it works without side-effects for what i use it for (first-aid, colds, that sort of thing)
as I say, why just doesnt matter
And there's loads of things/times/symptoms it wont work for,
when some symptom-reliever from the chemist/drug store/docter will, well, relieve the symptoms....

EDIT: only reading the article now

10290

Living Room / Re: When a dollar is more than a dollar

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 10:36 AM »

I think the US $1 coin and the Canadian quarter dollar are about the same size... and about the same value the way the Greenback is trading these days on the currency market.

-tinjaw (November 21, 2007, 10:21 AM)

the first thing I thought when i saw the title was- he's on about them loonies again

10291

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: XYplorer File Manager

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 04:58 AM »

from Gizmo's latest newsletter

Topic:- "Search Files Without Using a Desktop Search Utility"

A final option is to use the search feature built into some File Managers. Among the best of these is XYplorer [5]. XYplorer can search for both file names and file contents and has powerful search specification options, including the ability to limit the search to specific drives, folders, file types, creation dates, size, file attributes and more. Furthermore, the speed of the inbuilt search is simply amazing.

just BTW

10292

Living Room / Re: DonationCoder.com Yearly Fundraiser for 2007 - Advice Requested Please

« Last post by tomos on November 21, 2007, 04:04 AM »

how much of a donation is worthwhile using paypal ?
I mean how much does paypal take?
is it a percentage or a fixed fee?

(If it's a dollar or near, the $1 per person idea is in trouble..)

10293

Living Room / Re: To wide-screen or not to wide-screen

« Last post by tomos on November 20, 2007, 04:21 AM »

I might be shooting myself in the foot if the Loonie takes a nosedive

-Darwin (November 19, 2007, 09:05 PM)

Loonie, was thinking- what's that 
till i remembered - it's the bird on the canadian dollar isnt it?

10294

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: XYplorer File Manager

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 05:36 PM »

All this talk has finally inspired me to install...well, unzip XYplorer

only getting a feel for it yet but gotta say it's lovely and light
with great and obvious (and subtle) attention to detail -

Sometimes the small details can be so nice - and there's so many really nice features here in the first couple of minutes..

looking forward to getting to know better

10295

Living Room / Re: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 05:00 PM »

Im in ur forumz, azkin' stoop'd kweshchunz!

-Renegade (November 19, 2007, 03:48 PM)

 

10296

Living Room / Re: DonationCoder.com Yearly Fundraiser for 2007 - Advice Requested Please

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 11:34 AM »

Yeah, I'd forgotten we still have a choice where our donations go -
havent been giving out any credits in a while

I like this one mouser

Hm.. maybe that's an idea.. we could set up a couple of "special funds" like for reviews, new software, new web services, etc, and let donors choose where to put their money.. and then pledge to devote that donation money to improving those areas of the site.  This would only be useful for people who don't want to have to specifically follow the site day by day and donate to individual people.  It would be more like pre-funding a specific area and then relying on the site administrators to parcel out that donation to members contributing to that area, or spending the money on that area, etc.

-mouser (November 19, 2007, 11:16 AM)

10297

Living Room / Re: Help Name Our Cat!

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 11:14 AM »

LOLa

10298

Living Room / Re: DonationCoder.com Yearly Fundraiser for 2007 - Advice Requested Please

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 09:30 AM »

Why not break it all down into it's smallest parts, and present it in a way that allows people to check off a bunch of boxes and donate a specific amount based on the cost of things around here, with the understanding that the money will be pooled to cover the cost of everything and not necessarily the exact item they check off?

Like how much does the bandwidth for the site cost for a day? How much for the server for a day? Let them donate an amount that would cover that. Make a nice checklist where we can check off 1 or more items, a box to enter a number of units for that particular item, and hit a submit button and donate an amount based on that.

Include some of the things you wish you could do and what it would cost to do that...

-app103 (November 18, 2007, 06:51 PM)

I like app's ideas there:

• Your donation will pay for 20% of an average coding snack
• Your donation ... for ...
• etc

Nothing makes me feel fuzzier or warmier than reading a list of testamonials from satisfied users.

Like this one.

-Ralf Maximus (November 19, 2007, 07:45 AM)

that does sound very impressive..

the Duchess of Argyll one of our happy software users

10299

Living Room / Re: How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

« Last post by tomos on November 19, 2007, 07:56 AM »

I havent read that guide - 32pages - not-a-chance

I know in general I'm not bad at asking question -
as in how they are asked, details given, (always forget at least one obvious thing though ) etc.

but
I have noticed in myself this habit of panicking if things start going wrong with OS or software in general.
Of course,
that's when you really need to keep a cool head & be observant of what's happening & keep notes/screenshots whatever.
Then, (in the context of not having kept a cool head), I have made some rather embarrasing posts/threads...
in my day (one just lately - I'm not telling ye where )

so, my question guide might go something like this:

• breathe in deeply
• breathe out slowly
• repeat if necessary
• write your questions
• go away & have a cup of tea
• come back, re-read - does it make any sense?
• rewrite
• post
• 

10300

Living Room / Re: DonationCoder.com Yearly Fundraiser for 2007 - Advice Requested Please

« Last post by tomos on November 18, 2007, 03:01 PM »

However, i feel like because of the community nature of the site, and especially during the fundraiser, that we should publicly show how much money is being raised.  Well at least like most things we do here, it's worth an experiment don't you think?

So i was thinking about one of those little thermometer fundraising things at the top of the DC pages for December showing how much money has been raised so far during the fundraiser.

-mouser (November 18, 2007, 01:35 PM)

you could always show it on a members-only-page - half-public
not sure if good idea, just an idea