Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins? (Read 598655 times)

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #800 on:** November 10, 2015, 10:31 PM »

It's gone down about $10 since I started looking for ways to buy BTC locally (about an hour).
-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:38 PM)

Hell its dropped almost $70 total today. If highend can wait till Saturday he might just get it for a song by then. I can't afford to move any of mine right now, I'm to far under water.

Renegade · « **Reply #801 on:** November 11, 2015, 11:11 AM »

I understand that the transaction fee is very small and how great that is compared to our current systems (PayPal, credit cards, etc.). But my question still remains:

I've read/heard that they're completely optional, but I can't figure out how to make a transaction without including transaction fees. Are transaction fees optional or aren't they?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 03:41 PM)

Yes. Fees are optional.

However, miners may not include the transaction, and it could take a while for it to be included. By including a transaction fee, you basically guarantee that your transaction will be included in the next block.

How do you do this? Just send all your bitcoins to a new wallet? Wouldn't that essentially link all those addresses to one address (the new one) all at once?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:46 PM)

Yes - you can just send all your BTC to a new wallet. That would be visible on the blockchain.

If you want to get rid of any linkage, it's pretty easy. You can deposit coins in an exchange, then withdraw a few days later. That isn't a guarantee, but it vastly increases the probability that you don't receive any of your "old" coins.

Also, you can deposit in an exchange, buy LTC, sell those on another exchange, and then get totally different BTC.

There are many ways to sever that connection on the blockchain.

4wd · « **Reply #802 on:** November 12, 2015, 08:27 PM »

Just an update to my CoinJar experiment:

ID verification was completed within 3 hours of uploading relevant info, this now lets me transfer up to AU$2500/day into the CoinJar account.
One bank account linked and verified within 6 hours, two remaining bank accounts linked and verified within 48 hours.

Linking a bank account isn't necessary since you can still deposit to your CoinJar account by using BPAY^w, (up to 24 hours to process), or POLi^w, (up to 48 hours to process).

If nothing else these guys are ridiculously efficient.

Deozaan · « **Reply #803 on:** November 13, 2015, 04:10 AM »

Anyone interested in a personal exchange? I'd pay 44$ via paypal to get back 40$ in bitcoins (10% fee).
-highend01 (November 10, 2015, 02:09 PM)

Still need this? I managed to get my hands on some.

Renegade · « **Reply #804 on:** November 13, 2015, 02:00 PM »

Just an update to my CoinJar experiment:

ID verification was completed within 3 hours of uploading relevant info, this now lets me transfer up to AU$2500/day into the CoinJar account.
One bank account linked and verified within 6 hours, two remaining bank accounts linked and verified within 48 hours.

Linking a bank account isn't necessary since you can still deposit to your CoinJar account by using BPAY^w, (up to 24 hours to process), or POLi^w, (up to 48 hours to process).

If nothing else these guys are ridiculously efficient.
-4wd (November 12, 2015, 08:27 PM)

Asher and the guys at Coinjar have worked ridiculously hard against incredible resistance to get things working. I've talked to him about some of those problems on a number of occasions.

What's funny is that both Asher and I have the same problems in using Coinjar due to neither of us being Australian. There are extra hurdles there. He's a good sport about it though.

Deozaan · « **Reply #805 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:17 PM »

I've been using Coinbase for my exchange. If anyone else is interested in checking them out, you can use my referral code and we both get ~$10 worth of bitcoins if you ever purchase $100 of bitcoins or more (it can be over multiple transactions).

They have a nice interface and make it simple to know important information such as: How many bitcoins are in your account, how much those bitcoins are worth in your local currency, and the current exchange rate between BTC and your local currency. They even have mobile apps which allow you to access your information and buy/sell/send/receive bitcoins on the go. I like Coinbase.

For a non-referral link, click here.

Deozaan · « **Reply #806 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:20 PM »

If you want to get rid of any linkage, it's pretty easy. You can deposit coins in an exchange, then withdraw a few days later. That isn't a guarantee, but it vastly increases the probability that you don't receive any of your "old" coins.
-Renegade (November 11, 2015, 11:11 AM)

Can you go into a little more detail about this? Perhaps specifically with how this would work with Coinbase? I was under the assumption that any bitcoins I deposited into Coinbase went into a wallet that belonged to me. So sending them all to Coinbase and then withdrawing them a few days later would just link everything to one address, and then everything from that address would come out into my new wallet, still linked.

Or do you mean sell them all off for fiat currency and then re-buy them all a few days later? Or something else entirely?

wraith808 · « **Reply #807 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:26 PM »

Just an update to my CoinJar experiment:

ID verification was completed within 3 hours of uploading relevant info, this now lets me transfer up to AU$2500/day into the CoinJar account.
One bank account linked and verified within 6 hours, two remaining bank accounts linked and verified within 48 hours.

Linking a bank account isn't necessary since you can still deposit to your CoinJar account by using BPAY^w, (up to 24 hours to process), or POLi^w, (up to 48 hours to process).

If nothing else these guys are ridiculously efficient.
-4wd (November 12, 2015, 08:27 PM)

Asher and the guys at Coinjar have worked ridiculously hard against incredible resistance to get things working. I've talked to him about some of those problems on a number of occasions.

What's funny is that both Asher and I have the same problems in using Coinjar due to neither of us being Australian. There are extra hurdles there. He's a good sport about it though.
-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 02:00 PM)

Can you use CoinJar if you're not from AU? Looks interesting...

wraith808 · « **Reply #808 on:** November 13, 2015, 03:27 PM »

It's gone down about $10 since I started looking for ways to buy BTC locally (about an hour).
-Deozaan (November 10, 2015, 04:38 PM)

Hell its dropped almost $70 total today. If highend can wait till Saturday he might just get it for a song by then. I can't afford to move any of mine right now, I'm to far under water.
-Stoic Joker (November 10, 2015, 10:31 PM)

This is my hesitation in getting in... I just want some for purchases, not for investment. But it's *still* scary!

Renegade · « **Reply #809 on:** November 13, 2015, 05:32 PM »

If you want to get rid of any linkage, it's pretty easy. You can deposit coins in an exchange, then withdraw a few days later. That isn't a guarantee, but it vastly increases the probability that you don't receive any of your "old" coins.
-Renegade (November 11, 2015, 11:11 AM)

Can you go into a little more detail about this? Perhaps specifically with how this would work with Coinbase? I was under the assumption that any bitcoins I deposited into Coinbase went into a wallet that belonged to me. So sending them all to Coinbase and then withdrawing them a few days later would just link everything to one address, and then everything from that address would come out into my new wallet, still linked.

Or do you mean sell them all off for fiat currency and then re-buy them all a few days later? Or something else entirely?
-Deozaan (November 13, 2015, 03:20 PM)

Let's do an example.

Say I buy something from you -- a pair of nuclear powered anti-fart underwear -- but the cops are coming down on people for that. You want to "clean" your bitcoins, so you:

Deposit BTC in Cryptsy
Buy LTC from Cryptsy
Pull out LTC to a new LTC wallet on your computer
Transfer LTC to BTC-e (then delete or abandon that LTC wallet)
Sell LTC for BTC on BTC-e
Transfer BTC from BTC-e to your "clean" wallet

Rinse and repeat as you like across different exchanges. The more you do, the "cleaner" it gets.

In more linear terms:

Deposit > Buy crypto > Crypto wallet > Deposit > Sell crypto for crypto (BTC or other) > Clean wallet

Or:

BTC > LTC > DOGE > XYZshitcoin > BTC

All done in different places.

You can sell for different cryptocurrencies at different exchanges. If you're using Bter, BTCChina and others, the trail will get very cold very quickly. Tracing anything would require the full cooperation of all the exchanges, which isn't likely to happen.

You can even transfer between different accounts on 1 exchange, making it all the more difficult.

You never touch fiat currency at all. Fiat has stronger AML and KYC regulation on it, which makes it harder to do with your own money what you want to do.

And you can always buy/sell through Localbitcoins, which will only make things harder if anyone wants to track anything.

That's just 1 way.

There are "mixers" that will mix coins for a fee. The end result is that it's impossible to tell where the coins came from.

For Coinbase, just pull them out and do the above, then send coins back.

However, what I've described above takes some effort, and really isn't necessary unless you're doing some really, very seriously shady stuff. Or anything seriously illegal, like contract killing.

You can completely screw up any kind of "tracking" by doing 1 simple step from above and depositing into a new wallet. If anyone is tracking you, like an ad company, or marketing company, you've just screwed them by creating an entirely new wallet that isn't linked to you. They could try to do pattern matching, but honestly... that's grasping at straws and they're unlikely to ever be able to do that, ever.

(I am missing some highly technical points above, but I've been conservative. For more information you can look into how wallets treat "change". Also look into "dust". It's probably not worth your time.)

Deozaan · « **Reply #810 on:** November 13, 2015, 06:12 PM »

Can you use CoinJar if you're not from AU? Looks interesting...
-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:26 PM)

Renegade seemed to imply that it was only available within AU, or a lot of extra work if not. But, FWIW, Coinbase seems to offer pretty much the same service as CoinJar, except not the Credit/ATM card.

This is my hesitation in getting in... I just want some for purchases, not for investment. But it's *still* scary!
-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:27 PM)

I'm not a financial expert, but looking at a chart of the conversion rate for the past few months, Bitcoin seems to be in a slight bubble at the moment.

If I wanted to get some Bitcoin available for making purchases, but was afraid of the fluctuating value, I'd transfer some money to my Coinbase USD wallet and leave it there until I was ready to make a BTC payment. Then I could transfer the USD to my BTC wallet (for free, using Coinbase) when I was ready to make the payment in BTC, so the value of the BTC wouldn't have much time to fluctuate between converting USD->BTC and sending the BTC for payment.

But the thing you'd need to do is already have the USD set aside in an exchange such as Coinbase so that you can buy the BTC instantly instead of having to wait a week for bank transfers to go through.

Just my 2 satoshis.

P.S. If you do decide to use Coinbase, we'd both possibly benefit from you using my referral link I mentioned earlier. But I don't want people to think I'm just trying push for a referral, so I won't mention it again any time soon.

You can completely screw up any kind of "tracking" by doing 1 simple step from above and depositing into a new wallet. If anyone is tracking you, like an ad company, or marketing company, you've just screwed them by creating an entirely new wallet that isn't linked to you. They could try to do pattern matching, but honestly... that's grasping at straws and they're unlikely to ever be able to do that, ever.

(I am missing some highly technical points above, but I've been conservative. For more information you can look into how wallets treat "change". Also look into "dust". It's probably not worth your time.)
-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 05:32 PM)

Thanks for the more detailed response. Of course I'm not looking to get into anything illegal or even shady. Nevertheless I was curious about the idea of "cleaning" the wallet occasionally.

4wd · « **Reply #811 on:** November 14, 2015, 06:40 PM »

What's funny is that both Asher and I have the same problems in using Coinjar due to neither of us being Australian.
-Renegade (November 13, 2015, 02:00 PM)

Can you use CoinJar if you're not from AU? Looks interesting...
-wraith808 (November 13, 2015, 03:26 PM)

Reading through it, it doesn't seem to matter whether you're Australian or not, just that if you are then ID verification will be quick, (a lot of ID verification in Australia can be done online and/or a quick trip to a local PO), and you have the ability to link Australian bank accounts.

If you're a UK resident then you can deposit via an EEA based credit/debit card (with attendant fee) but apparently no bank account.

If you don't have an Australian bank account then the only way you could get your funds out would be to transfer everything in your CoinJar BTC wallet to another BTC exchange that would give you that facility.

ID verification probably isn't necessary for non-AU/UK residents because there's no way you can deposit/withdraw external funds (non-BTC) to/from your CoinJar, so in that respect it's nothing more than an online wallet.

@Ren: IIRC, you mentioned having an Australian bank account (in another thread) so I would have thought that apart from time taken to verify ID, (with a passport I assume), you would have been OK.

Was there something else I've missed reading in their FAQ/T&C?

Renegade · « **Reply #812 on:** November 15, 2015, 12:05 AM »

@Ren: IIRC, you mentioned having an Australian bank account (in another thread) so I would have thought that apart from time taken to verify ID, (with a passport I assume), you would have been OK.

Was there something else I've missed reading in their FAQ/T&C?
-4wd (November 14, 2015, 06:40 PM)

Dammit. I'd share the issue if it were only for me, but I don't want to shed any light on Asher's situation. Sorry.

It is possible, but it is significantly more difficult. I'd mentioned Asher, so I don't want to disclose anything further. Suffice it to say that there's nothing notorious or nefarious going on. It's just that we both shared some common problems that made getting verified account significantly more difficult than for most people. It's a normal, average, every day kind of thing.

Thanks for the more detailed response. Of course I'm not looking to get into anything illegal or even shady. Nevertheless I was curious about the idea of "cleaning" the wallet occasionally.
-Deozaan (November 13, 2015, 06:12 PM)

I didn't figure that were up to anything nasty or dangerous.

But these things are good to know for everyone.

The long and short is that if anyone wants to "clean" some money, they can. And that's a good thing. Your personal financial affairs are your business, and nobody should be able to stop you from doing with your money whatever you want to do. Financial freedom is a good thing.

4wd · « **Reply #813 on:** November 15, 2015, 01:13 AM »

@Ren: IIRC, you mentioned having an Australian bank account (in another thread) so I would have thought that apart from time taken to verify ID, (with a passport I assume), you would have been OK.

Was there something else I've missed reading in their FAQ/T&C?
-4wd (November 14, 2015, 06:40 PM)

Dammit. I'd share the issue if it were only for me, but I don't want to shed any light on Asher's situation. Sorry.
-Renegade (November 15, 2015, 12:05 AM)

No problem

Renegade · « **Reply #814 on:** November 15, 2015, 02:30 PM »

Just for interest:

http://motherboard.v...itcoin-to-judge-judy

tl;dr - A scammer nails 2 people who both end up in Judge Judy's courtroom. Judge Judy makes a fool of herself as usual and... no spoilers.

Renegade · « **Reply #815 on:** November 16, 2015, 09:13 AM »

A bit more about privacy:

http://satoshi.nakam....org/quotes/privacy/

The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone. This is similar to the level of information released by stock exchanges, where the time and size of individual trades, the "tape", is made public, but without telling who the parties were.

More at the link.

Deozaan · « **Reply #817 on:** November 18, 2015, 06:10 PM »

While I love Namecoin, there are problems there. This article tells about how a company moved from Namecoin infrastructure to Bitcoin, and why. The "why" part is pretty important.
-Renegade (November 18, 2015, 03:11 PM)

Interesting. It reminds me of something Andreas said in one of the videos you linked. Something about how even if altcoins are successful, that success will only help Bitcoin because Bitcoin can let the altcoins experiment (and fail or succeed) and then just implement the good stuff while avoiding the bad stuff.

Renegade · « **Reply #818 on:** December 06, 2015, 09:46 PM »

This is just fantastic!

https://medium.com/@...9feb4a41d#.ti4tp89ko

How to Actually Explain Zero Knowledge Protocols to your Child

…because the “child” in Quisquater’s original ZKP paper is waaay smarter than I am, and I’m not sure I count as a child anymore.

Once upon a time, a girl named Pam wanted to make herself a fruit smoothie. However, she didn’t want her friend Victor to drink it, because although Pam and Victor are friends, Victor always drinks Pam’s fruit smoothies without asking and that pisses her off.

Victor also happens to be colorblind, and can’t tell the difference between green and red. He hates spinach as well, and refuses to eat it. Pam decides to capitalize on this by making a green spinach smoothie in addition to her normal red berry smoothie.

Victor walks in to the room and sees Pam standing there with two smoothies. Because of his colorblindness, he has no way to distinguish the smoothies by sight. He is also sick and his nose is plugged up so he cannot distinguish by smell. Anyway, the point is that Victor has no way of telling the two smoothies apart.

“Oh great,” says Victor, “There are two delicious smoothies that I can drink!”

“No,” says Pam, “One smoothie is a spinach smoothie and one smoothie is a berry smoothie.”

“You are lying,” Victor retorts, “They look exactly the same. You just don’t want me to drink your smoothies!”

“Ugh you are so entitled. Don’t accuse me of lying, you greedy bum. I can prove to you that I’m telling the truth *without revealing any information*,” says Pam.

She places the two smoothies in front of Victor and says, “I am going to leave the room. You can choose whether or not to switch the position of the smoothies. Either way, I will be able to tell.”

Pam leaves the room and Victor switches the position of the smoothies, then calls Pam back in to the room.

“So,” says Victor haughtily, confident that Pam will not be able to guess, “Did the position change?”

“Yes, they did!” exclaims Pam, because she is not colorblind and can distinguish by color that the smoothies have moved.

“That was just a lucky guess!” scoffs Victor, “Since there are only two smoothies, the probability that you guessed correctly is 50%. Let’s repeat this experiment again!”

Pam agrees, and leaves the room. When Victor calls her back in, Pam is able to answer correctly again.

“Bollocks!” says Victor. “The probability that you were able to guess correctly twice in a row is 25%, which is still very probable. Let’s try again!”

Victor tries a total of 10 times to befuddle Pam. Each time, she is able to answer correctly. Victor calculates that the probability of Pam guessing correctly ten times in a row is 1/1024, or less than 0.1%, which is enough for him to verify that the smoothies are indeed different and Pam is not guessing.

If Pam and Victor repeat this experiment n times, the probability that she guesses correctly each time would approach zero. So if 0.1% was not low enough for Victor, he could always have tried for 0.00000000000000001%, (which should be low enough for anyone, and if it’s not enough for you, then you probably have other issues to sort out).

Thus, Pam proved to Victor that the smoothies were different without revealing which smoothie was what. Victor was not one to take chances with accidentally eating spinach, so Pam’s smoothies were safe!

Now your child knows some crypto. This pleases you because now you can brag about how your child is better than other children, because you’re a little bit of an ass.

Such a great read!

Renegade · « **Reply #819 on:** December 09, 2015, 01:40 AM »

Bitcoin is back up to it's old tricks again... i.e. being UP~!

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #820 on:** December 09, 2015, 06:22 AM »

Bitcoin is back up to it's old tricks again... i.e. being UP~!
-Renegade (December 09, 2015, 01:40 AM)

Yes but it's been crawling up so slowly over the last week or so, that I can't decide if it's reassuring or annoying as hell.

Deozaan · « **Reply #821 on:** December 09, 2015, 05:31 PM »

Meanwhile, some new information suggests an Australian man named Craig Wright invented Bitcoin (along with his now-deceased friend David Kleiman) and is the pseudonymous Satoshi Nakamoto.

Not long after that information was published, Mr. Wright's home was raided by the Australian authorities:

Of course, it wouldn’t be a true Bitcoin story with out a bit of drama thrown in for good measure. That said, The Guardian is reporting that Wright’s home was raided by Australian police following Gizmodo’s published report.

More than 10 police personnel arrived at the house in the Sydney suburb of Gordon at about 1.30pm. Two police staff wearing white gloves could be seen from the street searching the cupboards and surfaces of the garage. At least three more were seen from the front door.

Guardian Australia understands the raids are not related to the claims that Wright may have been involved in the creation of bitcoin, but are related to an Australian Tax Office investigation.
-http://news.yahoo.com/bitcoin-creator-revealed-australian-genius-craig-wright-subsequently-132041966.html

Interesting news indeed.

And since this information about Mr. Wright have been published, almost all of his social media accounts have been erased or made private.

Renegade · « **Reply #822 on:** December 09, 2015, 07:08 PM »

Apparently it's a hoax, but we'll see.

https://www.reddit.c...shi_by_wired/cxslii7

In other news, the 30-day CNY/BTC volume is about $21 billion USD. $1.22 billion USD in the last day. Good times!

Deozaan · « **Reply #823 on:** December 09, 2015, 10:10 PM »

Apparently it's a hoax, but we'll see.

https://www.reddit.c...shi_by_wired/cxslii7
-Renegade (December 09, 2015, 07:08 PM)

Interesting. As I was reading about the news, I kind of had the feeling that he seemed very full of himself, and like maybe he was trying to con people into thinking he was Satoshi. But I'm not sure how much of that was my own intuition or the way the article(s) I read on the subject were written.

Cool to see BTC going up.

Renegade · « **Reply #824 on:** December 13, 2015, 12:39 PM »

Very funny:

Andreas rocks!