Author Topic: Is Linux just a hobby? (Read 108308 times)

zridling · « **Reply #25 on:** May 23, 2012, 02:13 PM »

@Josh:
Remember, too, that to this day, if I visit a large retailer to buy a computer, I'm also forced to buy a copy of Windows I'll never use. That's legal theft. And now Microsoft is rocketing toward the closed Apple model. Good luck with that in these times.

dantheman · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:18 PM »

@zridling,
What is Windows installed on a computer? 125.00?
The price of a good backup disk.

Didn't Dell make one with Linux installed?

Do you think people won't be able to install Linux over/or next to Windows 8?

BTW, i've been following the posts here.

When i search for related stuff, i get lost and lose confidence in what was posted or reported.
It's good to read you speak out with passion and knowledge.
Who knows! Perhaps i'll drop Windows once and for all!

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2012, 08:48 PM »

Dell has been on-off with Linux. I lost track of it.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #28 on:** May 24, 2012, 06:41 AM »

Dell has had an N series of machines for their business line that comes with OpenDOS for quite a while. Just look for the Precision T1600n. I've had ~50 of the T1500/T1600s in the field for a year or so, and they're really nice machines.

wraith808 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 24, 2012, 11:13 AM »

That's legal theft.
-zridling (May 23, 2012, 02:13 PM)

How is that theft?

mahesh2k · « **Reply #30 on:** May 24, 2012, 01:24 PM »

I do have N serier, Dell Vostro 1550 machine and it works fine. It has ubuntu 11.04 in it which got replaced with 12.04 last month. I hate dell's forced windows license purchase. Sometimes they force the license purchase on us by showing no option of operating system other than windows. I feel that is wrong. I don't want to waste my money on windows license.

wraith808 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 24, 2012, 03:47 PM »

That's a problem with Dell, isn't it? And how is that theft? If you don't like their licensing then don't buy, right?

mahesh2k · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2012, 06:30 PM »

I never said that was theft. That was more like forced licensing to make money. As for buying, their other components works way better than HP or ACER. So "you don't like it, then don't buy it"- just don't work for me. So as a customer I am demanding that from them which is again fair, and to some extent it works because they do release one model out of 10 for linux or freeDOS.

wraith808 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2012, 10:38 PM »

^ Above that was said to be theft (and never answered), and then you dovetailed on the conversation with your comments, which was the reason for the question.

dantheman · « **Reply #34 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:43 AM »

Speaking of hobby...!

I've been reading here and there that it is possible to install LinuxMint's latest Maya Cinnamon within Ubuntu 12.04. Have tried a few of the suggestions but not getting it to work.

Did try to install LM Maya with .iso on DVD/RW. It runs but won't install. Apparently it might be because i have to burn it to a DVD/R only. Whatever!

Did also try uNetbootin.
It told me to format to fat32 so i did but it kept telling me to format it to fat32.
Using a WD 150G usb storage device that i wiped i formatted to fat32 but i guess that it isn't good enough.

mahesh2k · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2012, 12:58 AM »

^ Above that was said to be theft (and never answered), and then you dovetailed on the conversation with your comments, which was the reason for the question.

What type of answer you're expecting from me or zaine? Are you going to get into argument just because zaine's wrong choice of word "theft". Or you just want to disagree because I agree with zaine's view despite his wrong choice of word "theft"? You know very well that was wrong choice of word for explaining unfair practice of the hardware vendors. Are we doing some orthography bickering here? I mean your sarcastic reply was uncalled for especially when you know that more than 99% of the laptop manufacturers install windows by default and don't give options for linux or freedos for which your sarcastic reply was -"you don't like it, don't buy it". So basically your argument was for the sake of it. You are expecting that people should not even express their views towards such vendors policies and just don't buy the computer at all if they don't like vendor policies(which makes 99% of the computer vendors). I must say that reply was in more of rude taste. Whatever...

Did try to install LM Maya with .iso on DVD/RW. It runs but won't install. Apparently it might be because i have to burn it to a DVD/R only. Whatever!

dantheman, How about making ext3 or ext4 partition with Linux Mint installer and then installing in it?

wraith808 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 26, 2012, 11:54 AM »

^ Sorry... I wasn't trying to be argumentative- trying to discuss on a discussion forum. Some people do believe that 'theft' is the right word, and I wanted to have a conversation. Then the response. Pah... close to giving up on discussing anything.

dantheman · « **Reply #37 on:** May 26, 2012, 12:17 PM »

Don't give up wraith808!

I can't count the times my choice of words was poor or totally inappropriate (for which i'm sorry).
Do tend to let my temper go too easily at times and we forget that we deal with real human beings when we post things.

With regards to LinuxMint13, well, i'm perhaps too quick on the gun. I don't know.

Here's what i get when trying to install with .iso burned to DVD/R
https://www.dropbox....05-26%2008.47.02.jpg

That's why, if i can install it via WUBI it might give me a way to get it in.
But, apparently you can't install and get a .32bit LinuxMint .iso to work in WUBI.
So, i'm back to square one.

I like WUBI style 'cause i can remove it without a problem (grub etc.)

sword · « **Reply #38 on:** May 26, 2012, 11:25 PM »

Linux Mint 12 (Lisa) LXDE (32 bit), (657 MB .iso), Live CD or install. For speed, stability, ease of use and installation. The web-based package installation interface with Software Manager has 36,000+ applications available with one click. Look at DistroWatch 2012-03-09 Mint. Min. Spec.: x86, 256 MB RAM, 3 GB hard disk space if installed, 800x600 resolution, CD or DVD drive or USB port. The DVD versions reportedly have a lot on them.

It worked perfectly as a Live CD. The speed, stability and ease of use claims are true. I installed it to my hard drive, upgraded to Firefox 11 with some add-ons and added apps.

I use a custom/remastered Puppy version Live CD for email and I use a Live CD version of Knoppix for general Internet surfing. Both work well and should be fairly safe since they are read-only CDs that load entirely to RAM. I think the Linux Mint hard drive install is quite safe but the box it is on has no user data and reinstalling Mint would be fast and easy.

dantheman · « **Reply #39 on:** May 27, 2012, 06:01 AM »

LXDE seems to be the solid option, thank you sword.

This is a basic non-geek question, but i just have to ask it.
What does it mean when it is supported until a specific date?

Can we upgrade the OS or does it have to be un-installed/re-installed?

dantheman · « **Reply #40 on:** May 27, 2012, 01:26 PM »

BTW sword, finally decided to take LXDE for a spin and you were 100% right!
Thanks a bunch!

sword · « **Reply #41 on:** May 27, 2012, 02:23 PM »

I don't know how *Linux* uses the term, "supported till a certain date" since I'm using 'Live' CDs. I do have some experience using old, sometimes very old, CDs of Linux iso images. If the CD works 'Live' on your hardware, it will keep on working and the worst you get is, for example, in a Puppy log-in where the default browser is an old version of 'IceWeasel', is a screen with, "Oops, URL not found", which you can just ignore.

Upgrading within a version in Mint could not be easier. At the top bar there is a 'shield' shaped icon with, "i" in it. Mine currently shows, "9 recommended updates available (39MB)". If you open this your system will be checked and the updates will be listed with check boxes and 'rating' numbers ( 1 - 5 ) beside items. "1" is highly recommended and *very* safe. I chose not to upgrade Firefox from v11 to v12 by unchecking the checkbox. You can do the same for upgrades numbered 4 or 5 if they are not important to you since there is a small chance, according to what I read, they might interfere with some other files. In Mint 'Applications> Other> Upgrade to DVD edition' you are given the opportunity to upgrade and I think you have choices. There is 'Applications> Other> Update Manager' that I've not explored, along with Synaptic Package Manager and GDebi Package Installer. I believe the same process works on an install to CD-RW (probably not big enough), DVD-RW or USB flash drive.
I've read about version upgrades and will review my notes and let you know.
@dantheman Re. today at 01:26:32 "...LXDE for a spin..."
Great. You are welcome.

Tuxman · « **Reply #42 on:** May 27, 2012, 05:10 PM »

Heck, my friend has Firefox running on an old XP and it performs twice as fast as on my system!
-dantheman (May 21, 2012, 08:00 AM)

Another proof that Linux is overrated.
Linux might be the currently preferred "wannabe geek system". So what? Technically, it is average at best.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #43 on:** May 28, 2012, 01:34 AM »

Yes, Linux can be a hobby but Linux can never ever ever be overrated because no one ever fully rates it correctly.

Over the years though, and speaking from a guy who still can't get the time to learn Linux, it's more like a vacation.

Anytime I have to switch a Windows that has gone bonkers, I find I take a brief vacation and install Linux and then reread some obscure info and then Linux becomes my default OS until something breaks or I want to play a Windows specific game. It keeps me from learning Linux ever but it fixed my Linux headaches. Instead of troubleshooting, I just go back to Windows and vice versa.

Over the years though, expiration date for support has become a feature. If your distro is no longer supported, then chances are you save yourselves from the headache of having to "un-set" some hog like Compiz or deal with the Gnome3 issue or worry about why something causes this particular install to not work.

It's where Mint is the future IMO. Gnome bothering you? Hello MATE. Constantly breaking something? Hello update manager with colored icons. It's the only OS I know that seems to still be updating itself for non-techies. It's one weakness is that it's still an OS so additions on the scale of new features you normally expect from regular software still crawls to a snail and you get mostly backend, Ubuntu upstream or aesthetic changes. Software are also never adopted. There's no Mint LibreOffice with exclusive Mint features for additional usability but Mint is the only one where fellow users used to ask how to adopt an "everybody could get why you want this on your OS feature" in MintMenu to their Ubuntu/other distro.

Tuxman · « **Reply #44 on:** May 29, 2012, 10:13 PM »

It's where Mint is the future IMO. Gnome bothering you? Hello MATE.
-Paul Keith (May 28, 2012, 01:34 AM)

Different window managers and desktop environments are available on many platforms, even Windows.

Constantly breaking something? Hello update manager with colored icons.
-Paul Keith (May 28, 2012, 01:34 AM)

I doubt the icons will stop the breaking.

After all, Mint is built very well and looks reasonable, however it is based on Ubuntu which is known to break a lot, so I never gave it a run. I used the Debian Edition on some machines until quite recently when the last LMDE machine died. Last night I updated my dual-boot Fedora to Fedora 17...

Still, FreeBSD is the superior system.

(Could not resist.)

Paul Keith · « **Reply #45 on:** May 30, 2012, 02:16 AM »

MATE is not a WM or DE though. That's what most techies may underrate.

It's a reactive WM or DE. Techies being more knowledgeable and full of hacking culture tend to overlook that so it gets understated. MATE, unlike other WM/DEs, does not aim to innovate, add superior features, add exclusive features but instead aims to save. By saving people from Gnome3, even if it's a selfish type of saving (a hotfix), it became more notable than the other obscure WMs/DEs when it was first released to people who hated Gnome3.

I'm not saying it did it to so great an effect that everyone knew about it but it approached the issue with enough of an urgency that people don't psychologically approach MATE as WM or DE. They approach it like a cool app feature which is what makes the effort stand apart from many other OS features.

As far as the icons, that's because of hindsight.

One of the main criticisms for the pre-colored icon era Mint was that it wasn't ready for newbie PC user because updating would break something. Of course this was one of those "extreme nitpicky" situations where advanced users pretend to see through the casual users' plight without realizing that this was less of an update problem and more of a general stability problem.

True to Clem's unique approach to elegance though, Mint did not just stop and wait. They actually went ahead and did it and over time it became less of a safety net and more of a "convenience factor".

Still to quote Futurama: “When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.” ...but it is still a unique social approach on improving an OS that many OS lacks especially from the open source side. Even browsers like Firefox and Chrome tend to be "show up" and then rely on add-ons and mini-updates and only Opera has really had a browser ui reincarnation although it's often on the regressive side (hiding features rather than making cool features easier to find). Mint on the other hand actually addressed people's problems and brought those new MintApps to the forefront basic or simple tweaks as they may be to the hacking culture of OSS. Sure many of the improvements has gone by the wayside but it's still one of the few OS's that upgrades itself like a MMORPG/regularly updated game/regularly updated web service than an operating system. The tech inferiority/superiority itself is irrelevant.

Bad low spec games could become one of the best games if it gets regularly updated to the point of constantly adding new content that you're excited to keep up on news about it. Especially for free, that's how you create currency by using free "new" features as a manner of building up supply and demand or more aptly anticipate and upgrade. Without that value, many people might not even find a reason to keep up to date with a product's changelog.

dantheman · « **Reply #46 on:** June 01, 2012, 08:08 AM »

Just stumbled on this site that offers computers with a few different Linux makes installed:
http://zareason.com/shop/home.php

(Wonder how much attention the new Windows8 Preview will be getting?).

Dabbing with WUBI (trying to get LM 13 to work on .32bit) made it unstable (so i uninstalled).

Have to admit it, Windows 7 is the most solid OS i've seen yet.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #47 on:** June 02, 2012, 08:18 AM »

We like Windows 7: it's faster than Vista, makes better use of your system resources, is packed with interesting features, and looks great, too.

But that doesn't mean it's perfect, of course. If you've moved to Windows 7 recently then you might have noticed various upgrade problems, interface issues and features that seem to have disappeared entirely, among many other complications with the new system.

Don't despair, though - while these problems can be really frustrating, answers are beginning to appear. We've uncovered some of the best and most effective solutions around, so follow our guide and your Windows 7 installation will soon be back on track.

http://www.techradar...oblems-solved-655655

...and I don't even have W7 and last time I tried one, it was so sluggish albeit the hardware was old.

It's also worth noting that the older versions of LM are known for being more installation-robust but of course the problem arises from hardware compatibility.

It could be my own bias for having LM10 but I've blog comments about LM11, LM12 and LM 13 that made me hesitate in trying them out. Of course these same complaints existed before and were often vague plus the changes in mint4win are easy to spot in the LM forums:

http://forums.linuxm...p?f=159&t=103360

Tuxman · « **Reply #48 on:** June 02, 2012, 09:44 AM »

We like Windows 7: it's faster than Vista

It only has different default settings which is not OS-related.

makes better use of your system resources

Same.

is packed with interesting features, and looks great, too.

No.

Josh · « **Reply #49 on:** June 02, 2012, 10:24 AM »

We like Windows 7: it's faster than Vista
It only has different default settings which is not OS-related.
-Tuxman (June 02, 2012, 09:44 AM)

Source?

makes better use of your system resources
Same.

Source?

is packed with interesting features, and looks great, too.
No.

Source?