Author Topic: It's alive, it's alive!!! mwahaha! - WinButtons and 7" touchscreen works (Read 79460 times)

nudone · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2011, 01:39 PM »

Oh dear. This is going to take ages to try everything out.

I've now positioned the MIMO to the left of the keyboard and it seems like the right place for it, maybe it's just the novelty though.

I didn't want to do this originally because I'd put the keyboard's detachable number keypad on the left (this is what you can do with the MS Sidewinder keyboard). So, it didn't seem right to put the touchscreen on the left as well - it would be too far left.

But, I've removed the number keypad completely and put the touchscreen in its place. The touchscreen isn't lying flat (for reasons I mentioned above) but, on its stand, it looks and feels like it's at a good position and angle to use. Quite natural to take my left hand off the keyboard whilst typing and hit a button on the touchscreen - more natural than reaching to hit the touchscreen when it's behind the keyboard (in front of the main monitor).

The truth is I never used the Sidewinder's number keypad whilst it was on the left hand side. I was meant to be using it as a macro trigger keypad but could never remember which keys did which function, hence the reason for having a touchscreen to display what each key/button does.

I think I'll create a "generic" button template for WinButtons that will behave like a typical number keypad (with a few extra functions thrown in on the extra buttons). This can then act as the default button layout that displays when specific button groups aren't shown because their parent program doesn't have focus.

tomos · « **Reply #26 on:** September 06, 2011, 02:52 PM »

still,
sounds like it's slowly getting there

Ath · « **Reply #27 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:39 PM »

I published an update for WinButtons and WBE in this thread, adding a configurable buffersize for the CursorRestore feature.

@nudone, I expect that setting CursorRestore to 'Regular', using WBE, should eliminate most of the 'missed mouse-cursor restores' you saw until now.

nudone · « **Reply #28 on:** September 07, 2011, 08:03 AM »

Sorry, Ath, the latest update doesn't appear to be working well at all.

The new cursor memory feature doesn't seem to make any difference regardless of the setting it's on, i.e. the mouse cursor always jumps onto the button that has been hit and doesn't move back to its original location.

There is also a strange layout problem. My Photoshop specific "group" of buttons now is offset to the left by about 200 pixels and the background is bright orange - it was black before the udpate.

There also seems to be a problem with the buttons remembering their label names, though, this was happening with the previous version too.

The cursor memory isn't something I think you should spend much time on to be honest, as the MIMO software takes care of all that and works everytime (it's just a bit inaccurate sometimes).

I'm going to keep working with the previous version of WBE for the moment.

edit:
An old problem, in that I've had it from the beginning, is getting the keyboard combinations to work correctly. Maybe this is a problem with AutoIt or it is likely just to be me not understanding the syntax properly. I wonder if this could also be creating problems for how WinButtons works, i.e. I have keyboard shortcuts that require characters like "#" and ";" which, I guess, could be confused by AutoIt's own interpretations.

nudone · « **Reply #29 on:** September 07, 2011, 08:10 AM »

One, thought and question: are the old .wbuc button templates compatible with the updates of WinButtonsEdit?

It's going to be a long process of having to recreate all the templates everytime if so.

Ath · « **Reply #30 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:15 AM »

The new cursor memory feature doesn't seem to make any difference regardless of the setting it's on
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 08:03 AM)

Setting the CursorRestore buffer to Small should give the same buffersize as the previous version, but I also tweaked the buffer-fill-code to try to be a bit more efficient. Might be I messed up something

There is also a strange layout problem.
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 08:03 AM)

Could you PM or e-mail me that layout file, so I can have a look at it?

I have noticed that, even though I firmly press the keys to compile the AutoIt3 source, it sometimes produces a bad/partly corrupted .exe, so I should probably do some more quality assurance before packing stuff into the zip-file.

I'll re-compile later today, and upload again (can't ftp from work).

One, thought and question: are the old .wbuc button templates compatible with the updates of WinButtonsEdit?

It's going to be a long process of having to recreate all the templates everytime if so.
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 08:10 AM)

The file-format has been backward compatible from day one, I only added settings (and sections) that are not interpreted by older versions of WinButtons but they do no harm. And ofcourse the default extension changed from .ini to .wbuc, some time ago, but it does work with .ini files equally well.
When unpacking my zip-file, just get the *.exe and *.readme.txt files. Unzip *.au3 if you want the source, all other files are hardly ever changed and meant as examples for new users.

For the keyboard shortcut keys I'm working on built-in support for WB, to avoid the load-time of WinSendKeys, and the AutoIt3 'rules' can be found here. Anything you can Send(), you can use with WB (though WinSendKeys can do a bit more, like mouse-clicks).
The WB built-in Send function will get a new command (not '-send'), so that would require a 1-time change to your .wbuc file(s). $:-\$

nudone · « **Reply #31 on:** September 07, 2011, 10:35 AM »

Okay, sounds good.

I think I'll create a new basic set of buttons to test things with until you've had chance to test everything out yourself with the touchscreen.

I'll email you the template I've been using until now.

nudone · « **Reply #32 on:** September 07, 2011, 12:52 PM »

I'm now using the previous version of WinButtonEdit (when "Restore cursor after button" was first included to it) and have just created a 4 x 3 button template.

All seemed find but on reopening the template inside WBE the "Photoshop" group I've created has lost all the button labels - and, the background has change to red for this group only.

As this is the first task I've done since extracting this version of WinButtons (today) it appears that the fault has been there all along. I'm going to proceed and put all the labels in again and hopefully they stick. I'll report back what happens...

edit:
I forgot to mention the odd bit about this: when running the related .wbuc as a live set of buttons, they labels appear, plus the background color is black, so all appears correct. So, somehow WBE isn't reading the contents of the .wbuc file when it is edited.

another edit:
I better just clarify what I said "labels" but in WBE these are the "Captions".

nudone · « **Reply #33 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:18 PM »

Okay, maybe I'm just not understanding what each feature is in the editor. What is the "Caption" for? I've renamed the buttons just using their "Name" - which makes sense and I probably should have not used "Captions" anyway.

The background color of the group appears to be working correctly now too. I've placed "#" inside {} which is being used with one of the hotkey commands, which now makes the button work correctly - but I wonder if this was, perhaps, making the editor go funny with the background color. I see that # is intepreted as Winkey by AutoIt unless it is used like {#} so I'm guess this could have been the problem.

Ath · « **Reply #34 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:19 PM »

A point of attention:
If WinButtons or WinButtonEdit have a current file that is not named WinButtons.wbuc or WinButtons.ini, they try to read any missing Settings values from WinButtons.wbuc or .ini (dependent on/same as the extension of the current file).
So if you have said file in the current directory while editing, but not in the actual directory where WinButtons is reading the current file, behavior will be different. (there is a corresponding remark in the WinButtons.readme.txt file about this)

And a small tip: WBE offers to run the current file with WinButtons from the 'File/Run WinButtons with current file Ctrl-R' menuitem, for a quick 'Real World' test

The cause for losing all Captions is not clear to me, I've never seen that happen before

, I'll investigate.

Ath · « **Reply #35 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:24 PM »

What is the "Caption" for?
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 01:18 PM)

It can be used to have a button without text or image, just color, or to have a dynamically updated caption (displaying time for instance, see the examples for condition<n> in the WinButtons.Readme.txt file)

nudone · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:40 PM »

I see. I've kept all files inside the same folder whilst editing and running them so that shouldn't be the cause of my troubles. Perhaps the default values where I've not specified something are doing things I wasn't expecting - I'll have to look.

I see I wasn't using the "Caption" correctly then.

One thing I'd like to point out that appears to be working very well is that the, original, "Restore cursor after button" feature provides a very nice "cosmetic" solution to MIMO's software failings.

MIMO's utility is correctly locking the mouse cursor on the main monitor when a buttons is hit on the touchscreen BUT it doesn't stop the cursor icon from appearing momentarily under your finger when you press the touchscreen.

BUT, using the "Restore cursor after button" of WinButtons at the same time, does prevent the mouse icon from appearing on the touchscreen.

In other words, a combination of both functions creates the mouse cursor movement and appearance you'd expect, i.e. you never see the cursor appear on the touchscreen.

Ath · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:48 PM »

One thing I'd like to point out that appears to be working very well is that the, original, "Restore cursor after button" feature provides a very nice "cosmetic" solution to MIMO's software failings.
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 01:40 PM)

Hmm, I'll probably revert to that method then, and see if the performance improvement I did, is also useful.

nudone · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:50 PM »

Just another quick "tip" for anyone else going down this route of getting a MIMO.

I've been saying how well it worked with the freeze/memory/lock mouse cursor thing when hitting a button. Well, I've just seen it not work.

This looks like it's a delay issue, so you have to give the system time to put the mouse cursor back to its original location. I think the delay must vary too.

Now, those of you with modern machines probably won't even notice and everything will work instantly - so, no problem for you.

nudone · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2011, 02:04 PM »

You know what. My moods may be dangerously erratic when it comes to working with this computer (and the problems I create for myself on it) BUT...

This touchscreen system is working f a n t a s t i c a l l y even in these early stages.

I'm swapping between different modes and features in Photoshop like it's all a natural part of the hardware and software. Adobe are going to wonder why they bothered making their iPad apps when they see what this can do.

Ath · « **Reply #40 on:** September 07, 2011, 02:21 PM »

There is also a strange layout problem. My Photoshop specific "group" of buttons now is offset to the left by about 200 pixels and the background is bright orange - it was black before the udpate.
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 08:03 AM)

Both these settings I found in the Group settings for the Photoshop group. Select the group or one of the buttons of that group, then select the 'Group parameters' tab. The setting for Left is -135 (close enough to 200

), and the background is set to red (0xff0000), but that might look like orange on the touchscreen, compared to your high-quality 30" monitor. On my medium-fi 26" Iiyama, it's a tad pink between the (black) buttons, and glowing reddish orange if I disable one button:

Screenshot - 07-09-2011 , 21_21_28.png

Edit:
Oh, and how to correct the strange behavior: Set Left to 0 (or empty), and change the color if you need/want that (it looks just fine IMHO, a nice contrast from the 'default' buttongroup)

Ath · « **Reply #41 on:** September 07, 2011, 02:26 PM »

This touchscreen system is working f a n t a s t i c a l l y even in these early stages.
-nudone (September 07, 2011, 02:04 PM)

I can hardly wait for mine to arrive

nudone · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:48 PM »

Hmm, that's interesting about the specific group settings - as I never set them like that. Everything is meant to be using the global colours and position.

I'll keep checking things like that to see if there's a noticeable pattern to how I've caused it.

nudone · « **Reply #43 on:** September 08, 2011, 03:56 AM »

Warning: anyone thinking of buying a touchscreen should be prepared for wasting plenty of time rebooting, wiggling the USB cables, unplugging and reconnecting the USB cables, rebooting, banging head on keyboard, rebooting, banging touchscreen on desk, unplugging and reconnecting USB cables, holding mouse in front of face like a microphone and shouting "Just WORK" into it rather like John Cleese shouting at the dead parrot.

So, not only do touchscreens come with totally useless software, they are unreliable too. Fine when they eventually decide to recognise that they are plugged into a computer but until then they like to play dead.

No wonder people don't bother with all this crap. I'm amazed at how backward technology can be. Quote from Touchscreen pioneer "I've invented this brillliant touchscreen display - only one problem - it doesn't work."

Ath · « **Reply #44 on:** September 08, 2011, 05:28 AM »

^+1

Quote from Touchscreen pioneer "I've invented this brillliant touchscreen display - only one problem - it doesn't work."
-nudone (September 08, 2011, 03:56 AM)

urlwolf · « **Reply #45 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:24 PM »

I got an exopc. The touch screen is sort of ok. I wonder if it could be used as a remote controller for another pc...

nudone · « **Reply #46 on:** September 08, 2011, 02:37 PM »

Looks nice. I'm sure it could control another PC, the iPad can, so it's more a case of someone writing the software for it - which makes me just assume that you currently can't control a pc with it.

The touchscreen world is built upon the promise of what can be and then waiting for Apple to do it instead and then pretend they haven't - and then wait a few years to see if Apple are still doing it, then go out of business because no one bought your radicle touchscreen device.

I'm sure in a few years time tablets and touchscreens (and smart phones) will do everything you can imagine regarding pc interfaces.

Ath · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2011, 03:06 PM »

I got an exopc. The touch screen is sort of ok. I wonder if it could be used as a remote controller for another pc...
-urlwolf (September 08, 2011, 02:24 PM)

That thing is running Windows 7

Guess some sort of RDP/VNC/etc connection could, but that's not really convenient.

I've been thinking about some sort of (web)services 'interface' (for WinButtons), so I can use my remote Windows, Android or iOs device to display the UI, and have the service app send/execute the commands on the host. Couldn't get that to work easily (found a presumably dead Android project on Google code) so I kinda abandoned that, waiting for someone to re-ignite the idea. Would require a 'redo' in something different from AutoIt3 (again, it's on the todo-list), like the host in .NET and the frontend/UI in Java or HTML5+javascript.

wraith808 · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2011, 03:08 PM »

I got an exopc. The touch screen is sort of ok. I wonder if it could be used as a remote controller for another pc...
-urlwolf (September 08, 2011, 02:24 PM)

I'd not heard of that before... how is it? And how much is it?

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2011, 03:51 PM »

I got an exopc. The touch screen is sort of ok. I wonder if it could be used as a remote controller for another pc...
-urlwolf (September 08, 2011, 02:24 PM)

I'd not heard of that before... how is it? And how much is it?
-wraith808 (September 08, 2011, 03:08 PM)

Not sure, but the devices page also lists a Motion Computing CL900 ... And those start at around $2,000

Correction - Two more clicks found this:$699